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You won't believe it. From a Trolling Hater to a VG Lover.
RonnyRulz
Member Posts: 479
There is pretty long, so I segmented it in titles for you if you want to skip parts. For your information, I was a HUGE hater. Just check the forums, I trolled trolled and trolled to flame VG.
======================================================
-=My Beta Impression=-
I tried out the Beta of vanguard and the first few days after release. The game was so ransacked with bugs, it was almost unplayable. The quests were broken, the animations weren't even there, and some spells had neither graphics nor sound effects. Performance was a HOG! During beta and the few days they gave me after release, my computer was running at 1200x1000 resolution, and I couldnt even turn the settings very high.
So I said "Screw you!" to Vanguard and I even trolled here. I was so disappointed and angry at the game I went on a crusade on how crappy it was, telling EVERYONE I knew how horrible the game was, what a failure Sigil was, and how it is the biggest bomb ever made.
======================================================
-=The Other MMO's=-
I played City of Heroes for awhile, but there's only one thing to do in that, so I got bored in a month. I played DAoC, did a lot of RvR. Eventually though, it got boring. I don't understand why it's fun to run on VOIP hearing people's annoying voices while your 8-man group ganks 1-3 soloers or small groups, and then to roam around not finding anyone for awhile, and then encountering multiple fullgroups to get slaughtered. I enjoy PvP, but I do NOT enjoy laming and being lame. There isn't any challenge in outnumbering or being outnumbered to the point there is no chance. 90% of the time is spent roaming, doing nothing. 9% is fighting soloers or people who have absolutely no chance. The other 1% is dying to multiple groups so large you don't stand a chance. BORING!
I then decided to try LOTR again, trying it out in Beta1 (hated it), Beta 2 (loved it), and now the World Tour. I have to say, the game's Mainline Story quests are amazing, but it is ruined a lot by groups rushing through the quest. They don't even care to read whats going on, or allow others to read. LOTR is also incredibly linear. You can quest the usual MMO quest, craft, or PvP in Monster Play. I'll admit, Monster Play and Crafting are well done, and the mainline quests are amazing, but the regular quests are only okay to good... not great.
I was playing LOTR and made my 4th character. Talk about REPETITION. The game is great, but the replay value sucks. There are only TWO starting areas, TWO introductory quests, and ONE mainline story quest. Basically, you are stuck repeating the same quests over and over, even if you pick a different race and class. Also IMO the abilities you get for leveling is way too slow and low. Sometimes you dont even get anything once you level. SOMETHING would be nice. This isn't a problem in the lower levels, but it IS in the higher. Linear, Repetition, and thus I can feel the inevitable boredom that will come if I level a 3rd character. The limited amount of classes/races also makes for a lack of variety, and I LOVE variety.
======================================================
-=Here's the Vanguard part=-
That's when Vanguard began to call my name. "You must try me again!" I thought, "NO WAY! You were the worst game in all of creation!" I began to ask around, "Don't do it, wait for a free trial!" I decided to wait, but I got bored and it began to call my name louder. I said "Screw it, it's only $40." I downloaded it over night and since I hated my Thestran Greasy-Haired Bard that ran like he had a stick up his butt, I created a Goblin.
VARIETY & FUN
WOW! The spell graphics actually exist now as opposed to NOTHING. Sound effects are all implemented! Animations are no longer missing in combat, spells, or actions. The quests are incredibly well done, and the lore is great. I began on a Goblin ship, traveled around to break my way out of slavery and made a long journey to become part of the Martok Clan. Through a thorough journey filled with unique quests and lots of fun, I finally reached level 10 and was accepted into their ranks. My faction rose to a higher level, I had enough to get a mount, in one quest I got to temporarily ride a shadow wolf type mount, I ran face first into a MASSIVE rhino creature that almost gave me a heart attack. To spare you the details, the world is limitless, HUGE, and every starting race has its OWN STARTING AREA! This means that repetition is hard to find. I made a Goblin and his quests and environment were quite the opposite of my Fox (Raki) Ranger and his quests, which was quite different from my Halfling and Thestran Bard, and I just now made a Mordebi Paladin, which is also in a compeltely different area.
I am the type of player that LOVES variety, and likes to have several different characters. LOTR sucked for that. 4 races and equally low number of boring classes. Vanguard has three different continents that are massive, TONS of races, unique races (Goblin, Wolf/Dog-Men, Fox-men, Lion-men, half-giants, the list goes on.)
Now for two of the biggest things about
======================================================
-=Vanguard: Graphics & Performance=-
All I can say for those two is........WOW!
Beta SUCKED. The graphics were so messy and the performance was horrible. I couldn't even have my settings very high.
My Computer:
2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo
512MB 7950 GT
2 GB of 800MHz RAM
a single 7200 rpm HDD
X-Fi Fatal1ty Sound Card
46" HDTV as Monitor
7.1 Surround Sound
Vanguard's performance went from piece of crap to "Actually not that bad..."
Since my monitor is a HDTV, I only have two resolutions I choose to use. Any other I refuse to use. (I can do more, but I don't like to, as I prefer to use ALL my screen, instead of partial or stretched.)
It also went from the world being "Not very beautiful...." as you can see in one of my popular threads "LOTR vs VG- You Decide" where I compared LOTR screenshots to VG.
I was wrong. The shots I had of VG sucked compared to shots I could take now. I don't know why it's better now, it just is. Even in the same areas I played in beta, it is just more beautiful. Maybe it has to do with the performance fixes and updates.
The world is absolutely beautiful! In-game, LOTR is still beautiful, but VG is realistic AND beautiful. Standing on the white sand beaches, looking out to the ocean is AWESOME! When it rains, it's so nice! The flowers and forests of Tursh, or the yellow fields of Martok, WOW!
======================================================
-=MY RESOLUTIONS & PERFORMANCE SETTINGS=-
1280x720p
1920x1080p
When I tried VG in beta and release, I had a regular monitor. I played on 1280x1024 with settings on medium and got anywhere between 20-40 fps. I don't remember the exact specfics, but I tweaked VG a lot and still had a choppy experience. I thought, "There's no way I could run VG at my 1920x1080p resolution. It'll drain it way too much." But I prefer to use that resolution because it is so amazingly sharp, crisp, and the UI is smaller.
I tried both. Here's my settings on both of them.
On 1280x720, I can turn EVERYTHING to max getting 40+ fps.
That includes: 16x antialiasing, 100% grass density, 100% trees (the one that makes trees detailed from far away), volumetric clouds, EVERYTHING ON MAX!
Every single settings in the entire game is set to max, and I get 40+ fps at that resolution. WOW! The performance has changed SO MUCH!
I jumped to see what I could get outta 1920x1080. Thinking I'd not be able to even play it on that resolution, I went in pessimistic. I came out VERY happy!
Everything is maxed except for.... No volumetric clouds, no antialiasing (Don't really need it though at that resolution, minor difference.), 40% grass density, 80% tree, but I did have all the lighting turned on.
Now this is where it gets weird.....
I have played video games a lot, and I swore I was trained in telling how many frames I'm getting. With near-max settings at this resolution (Although I did miss drowning in extra grass and the extra clouds) the game was not just playable, but I didn't even notice that it was at only 20-40 fps! I was SHOCKED. I swear I can tell the difference between 20, 30, 40, and 60, but maybe I can't. It wasn't breathtakingly smooth like games are at 60-80+ fps, but for regular gaming it actually was smooth. When it comes down to it, I prefer one of two different frame rates. Rather playable (20-30) or INCREDIBLY SMOOTH (60+)
The game ran at only 20+ fps sometimes, but I swear it's higher than that, because I swear I'd notice if it was THAT low. Apparently not though. One of the best games for only 20 fps I've ever had, LOL.
So I had to make the choice. Higher resolution (more sharp and crisp) with no extra volumetric clouds and 60% less grass, or a lower resolution with EVERYTHING maxxed out WITH 40 fps. I tested each and decided I prefer the higher res. With the difference between 20-40 and 40+ fps, I didn't notice much of a difference. As I said, I prefer "Playable" or "Incredibly Smooth", that's about it.
======================================================
-=IN SUMMARY=-
Vanguard went from a beta piece of crap to what I would term "Fit for release........... for an MMO." Mind you, it's still buggy and there's still problems, but nearly all MMO's are buggy during release. IMO it would be fit to be released now than it was 3 months ago. They really would have benefitted from that extra time.
Vanguard went from a performance hog to what I expect given my system. I have a great system, but my graphics card is limited when it comes to these graphical games at high resolutions. I have as good performance with Vanguard (bugs excluded) than I do with Oblivion, and better than in NWN2.
Vanguard went from being a game I hated, to being a game I love. The biggest thing that drove me away was the fact the game was just plain UNFINISHED. Well, it still has its kinks and bugs, but seeing as how the animations (or placeholders???) are there, it actually is good enough.
IT REMINDS ME OF EVERQUEST, BUT BETTER!!!!!!
======================================================
-=PROBLEMS=-
Now to give you the quick and short problems I still have, that keep it from going from GREAT to BREATHTAKING.
1) GROUPING- The population isn't a problem. Florendyl RP server has plenty of people. It has more players than most MMO's do, which is plenty enough. You won't find anything like WoW with servers so full you have to wait, and they did make a mistake in having too many servers, BUT it is still more than most MMO's. More than DAoC!!!
The problem though, is that through lvls 1-10, nobody wants to group. Everyone is busy learning their class and figuring everything out. Even during primetime when there were TONS of people on, I messaged like 10-20 of them asking for group, and none wanted to. I was told earlier that people don't group much below lvl 10, because they are still learning. When I got on closer to midnight, there were still enough on to group. A lot of them responded "Sorry I just started crafting." or "I'm about to log, sorry." or "I'm busy right now, talk to me in 10 minutes."
Needless to say, I didn't group on my lvl 8 Goblin. There were, of course, less in Mortak (Goblin/Orc) than in the Human/Halfling area or the WoodElf/Raki area. They really need to encourage grouping and discourage soloers. This is a big problem for me, as the game is both geared towards groups, and the fun is geared towards groups. There is nothing more fun than playing VG with a full group, tackling an epic quest or a big dungeon. I guess I'll rather have to wait to get to a higher lvl (10+, which I'm at now) or for them to patch better LFG and encourage grouping. Once again, population isn't the problem. A spread out population IS a small part, but the majority is that everyone just doesn't want to group, they want to solo (From lvl 1-10)
2) BUGS- They are still there. My Necro's pet could be better, but instead of being smart, he follows my EXACT commands and sometimes the commands reset. Good thing though, the pet is always with you, even when you log out and back in, and since there's no zones, you don't have to resummon your pet at any of those times. Nice! The bugs are nowhere near as much as in beta though. Some are still there, I'm sure there are still some bad ones, but A LOT have been fixed. I can't wait to see what the next few months hold for VG. It isn't gamebreaking though. It is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be or as it was in beta. (A lot of haters
only played beta, so they don't realize a lot has been fixed.)
======================================================
-=So yea, I went from a flaming hater to a VG lover=-
I am a longterm MMO player. First days of UO and EQ, and I've tried it all. Nothing has been able to compare to UO or EQ. 9 years of MMO's, and with the invention of WoW, they went to become Linear, Reptition, Easy, and thus Boring to some.
Playing LOTR made me realize how MMO's have turned into linear quests where everyone looks the same.
VG is different. It is the game where you do whatever the heck you want to do.
I don't try to level, I just play the game. This makes VG a thousand times more fun. When you aren't focusing on leveling leveling and leveling, you won't feel the grind. I reached lvl 8 easily and reached 10 that same day, along with a lvl 6.
For the casual player like those who play WoW, LOTR is their game. For those of us who enjoy MMORPG for what they are, VG is for you. If you liked EQ, you'll love this. If you can wait, let a few more bugs be fixed. If you can't wait, don't fear and jump on in, you'll love it. It gives you that EQ feel of adventure. You make your own adventure. It's not directed, linear, and repetitive. Instead it's filled with a HUGE world, TONS of quests, UNIQUE classes that are all VERY different, and awesome lore (One of the first goblin quests requires you to read 3 stone tablets filled with lore! That's the first step! lol)
Comments
My god.... Are you in the right place?
This post made sense and had constructive information....
I bow to you!
Speaking of which, got a buddy key to borrow me? Really want to try it :P Pm me if so
Again, thank you for the post, it helped me alot!!
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Thanks bro
Sorry I don't have a key to give out, but if I did I'd give you one for the compliment, hehe.
If I get in a guild or meet some good friends, I'll ask around if anyone might have one, but I wouldn't get your hopes up
Maybe we'll get lucky though lol
I'll see you in-game at SOME point atleast
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
One bad thing...once you get past the starter areas, you'll suddenly be hunting the same places as every other class.... its seems the higher you go..the more you are funneled into particular zones... I assume because there isn't as much upper level content yet.
But VG would definitely appeal to former EQ 1 players for sure....
but I used to play DAOC
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Now can you understand why people like me get so exasperated by the trolls, Ronny? It's because Vanguard has been playing like that for me since 2 months before release!! This is because of tweaking. Now performance has caught up and you mostly don't even need to tweak it.
Thank you for this extremely well thought out post, Ronny. I have never taken the time to make a post as complete as this and I bow to you and thank you for doing so. I will be back in Vanguard in September after I get married and I can't wait!
HURRAY!
I would also like to apologize for all my previous trolling. Whatever I think about something, it's wrong to troll no matter what. My apologies to everyone.
Giving only verry negative posts all the time on the same subject is allways a bad thing..makes you look like those old guys from the muppet show.Glad you see it was kinda dumb and maybe , just maybe other trollers will see what they are doing is kinda silly.
On a sidenote it indeed is a good post and seems to me like one of the better/best posts about vanguard here .Just don't start to become a fanboy troller now cause they are as anoying as the hate-trollers are
Too little too late.
WTB Shadowbane 2
I just wonder where the rest of the fanbase has gone, they gotta be on some forum atleast?
(Obviously not this one..)
Gotta go find them..
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Nice post. I have been doubting what to do. But I ended up with the decision not to play any MMORPG right now. Not because they are bad but because the are all about the same thing. The next MMO I will signup is the one that lets players change the world because of actions they do.
Why I don't play Vanguard? The same reason many don't SWG right now, population. While the population in VG is ok now, how is it in about 3 months from now? The guildies (guild I am in) are already taking a 'break'' from VG. Another point, I aint going to pay 50 euro's! UK companies have it for 25 euro's, why should the 'online version' be so expensive?!
And I know that those guys will not care about bugs or missing balance or empty worlds. This game was MADE for the "MMORPG is my hobby and I dedicate hours over hours of my life to this"-type. I'm just glad that they usually code games for normal people ^^ Otherwise my range of MMO choices would be cut down horribly
Meridion
Yea, pretty much.
The average MMO is really great, and usually incredibly polished (WoW, LOTR) but I enjoyed UO and EQ more than I enjoyed any other MMO, with many a short exception to DAoC back in its prime, but nothing to compare to the originality of UO and EQ.
I'm glad that you agree to disagree. One type of gamer (Classic UO/EQ type MMO) likes Vanguard, and there are other titles for the other type of gamer, which is more popular and casual (Hurray!)
IMO, I'd prefer the communities to be seperate too. As a person with too much free time, I dislike the casual player that plays very very little, because they don't play as long as me, don't like to group as much because of time, etc. etc. It just works better when you play with people who are similar in style. There should ALWAYS be variety in choice of games, especially MMO's. There needs to be a Vanguard, a WoW, a LOTR, a DAoC, an EQ2, an AoC, a Warhammer, and a G&H. Variety and different gameplay styles are very important.
To each his own!
Thinking of buying it to test it out.
OMFGPWNED/10
Good catch!
Originally posted by RonnyRulz
Yep, I was thinking of buying it to test it out.
Why? And why did I not include I was in beta?
Because I assumed the game is completely different now, and I am right.
My beta experience was so buggy and messed up that I ended it with "I might have kept playing given more time, but no thanks, this sucks." An experience that 3 months later counts for nothing in terms of knowing what the game was like. I left beta not knowing what the game was like because I couldn't enjoy myself or even play the game because it was so unfinished.
Sorry, but you'll have to try harder than that to try and discredit me.
Oh yea, and BTW, don't trolls belong under a bridge? Hahaha!
If reality and truth isn't enough for you to go back to your bridge, then here's some proof and a hard fact.
I discovered Tursh Village on 2/2/2007.
deleted double post
I just can't see all these improvements, sorry. Maybe it's because I never played in beta.
But I also noticed that some areas of VG are far more better than others. Just start in the high elf area, then start in the vulmane area. The difference in gameplay bugs and FPS are quite significant. Which kind of proves the poor optimisation of the engine and the fact that the majority of gamers arn't playing because of this.
Glad you enjoy it though. I enjoy it too, I enjoyed it when I played, I would still enjoy it but I have learned after purchase not to just give good money away like that ever again. Everyones different, and I feel that customer is king. Which is why I am bitter about Brads decisions and statements, I used to admire his vision. But now it seems like VG is just another mmo, no innovation, whether this will change only time can tell. But they released at the worst possible moment whether they had to or not. They did however spend enough money on this game and time to justify this release. So I can't see any valid excuse except for the devs didn't quite know exactly what they were doing.
Good luck for the future. Good luck to VG too, hopefully it shows everyone up, and laughs in my face, I will gladly give it another go if it improves. I just don't see it happening, after all the crap that has happend any optimism I had towards VG has died. Not to mention the future releases, people can call them unreleased all they want. But take WAR for example, the game is being run by a team who has been through the charade of a RvR type game and have made bad decisions. I don't see them failing to meet expectations like VG did. Turbine is a great example of learning from mistakes.
Of course this is all my opinion, I shouldn't have to tell you that.
Have fun!
EDIT: I don't know if your opinion has changed, but VG has no more depth than WoW. You still grind for what you want to acheive whether it be through crafting diplomacy or adventuring. This may seem like an opinion, but I feel it is not. Both games have a "mindless" grind to the end where you do what? Build a house? Then what? There are no PvP options, none that are meaningful. The games are essentially the same, whether you like it or not.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Participating in the beta would be "testing it out". If you knew it sucked in the beta, then why bother asking the people of the forums for their opinion considering there were like 293462041435 topics already that had people chiming in about how much it sucked.
The game has added new things but there are still many bugs that plagued the beta that made it for launch and are still there.
Sorry but the game is still far from finished and that is why it has officially started to fall off the sales charts, I think it dropped from like 11th or 13th most sold game for February to 11k+. We didn't have to discredit you, you do that on your own considering you hyped the game until you got in the beta, then trolled it during the beta, and now 2 months after launch you love it again. You just flip flop.
Don't trolls belong under a bridge? Yes they do and fanbois should be shot in the face. Twice.
Participating in the beta would be "testing it out". If you knew it sucked in the beta, then why bother asking the people of the forums for their opinion considering there were like 293462041435 topics already that had people chiming in about how much it sucked.
The game has added new things but there are still many bugs that plagued the beta that made it for launch and are still there.
Sorry but the game is still far from finished and that is why it has officially started to fall off the sales charts, I think it dropped from like 11th or 13th most sold game for February to 11k+. We didn't have to discredit you, you do that on your own considering you hyped the game until you got in the beta, then trolled it during the beta, and now 2 months after launch you love it again. You just flip flop.
Don't trolls belong under a bridge? Yes they do and fanbois should be shot in the face. Twice.
Asking why I bothered asking the people of the forums for their opinions is rather moot. The reason is obvious, because I've already bought the game and already played it, and also have already enjoyed it. I needed to test it out to see if I wanted to play it, and I didn't get to test it out because my only experience was a horrible beta.
If you can't understand that, then this conversation is over.
You beta tested it and then tried it a couple days after release? Then you asked for the opinions of everyone else to make the decision for you?
Then you uninstalled the game, canceled your account and then a couple months later instead of reactivating, and going to their site for the client, go and buy the 40 dollar digital download?