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Why Brad must make a solid first expansion
Amathe
Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
The #1 reason why people quit group oriented games is when they can't find anyone to group with. Nothing is more frustrating than having a quest log full of quests you can't do, or walking by a dungeon you can't enter, simply because there is nobody with whom you can group.
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
And this problem is compounded further in Vanguard, with its slower progression, huge, spread out world, and with Brad's failure to implement the fellowship program.
So what's the point? It's this. Brad talks about how Sigil is going to keep working hard on this game, and how they will keep adding to it, and how computers will advance, so that blah blah blah in the future this game will achieve much greater popularity. But that's not going to work in a game like this. These games don't meaningfully grow by word of mouth and by people "trickling in" a few here, a few there, over time. That is because people who trickle in will not have many people to play with. Sure there will be a few others and some alts/twinks, but it won't be enough that way to create the grouping environment the game design assumes is in place.
Nope. Brad gets one more bite at the apple. When Sigil releases the first expansion, if it is any good then there will be another significant infusion of players, all at once. That could be a turn around point for this title, or it could be a tombstone if it craps out.
So between now and then, I wonder if Brad has learned anything? I wonder if he will finally put aside his arrogance and hero worship for l33t dudes and put in game features that deliver on his currently false promise of a game to be enjoyed by casual and core gamers? Are you reading this SOE? If you are, I suggest you take a look at the plans for the expansion, and if it is more of Brad's unfun, elitist, only the best gamers matter bs I suggest you kick the drafter of that plan hard in the nuts before it is too late!
There is only one more chance. Don't waste it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If Sigil has learned anything, they should focus on further completing Vanguard with an expansion and introducing a lot of it's good merits to new players as soon as possible.
Like, UO had it's one-room small houses. Vanguard should have a more readily accessible area for new players to jump in and experience houses pretty quick. Same thing goes for flying mounts...add some giant flying squirrels for new players. Have AES permeate every non-Kill X Loot Y Take to Z quest, so on and so on.
The only mistake I can foresee Sigil making is leaving the current newbie areas the exact same while offloading content to mid- or end-game. Whatever an expansion would add, needs to be accessible day one.
I really doubt they're going to release a free expansion. It'd certainly be in their best interest, but of all the companies that have released free expansions in the past, Sigil is the least suited to do so.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Maybe they should hold off on the expansion till say about 2010, when the computers of the future arrive.
Good points on grouping. However, I think you got a little carried away with the all Brad is a hero-worshipper drivvel.
The fact remains, getting groups easily is definitely going to be a key to success in this game. You are correct, the world is huge and the population as now spreadout and the level differences have now spread out as well. Pick up groups are still easy to get in my opinion... for example, doing missives in Southwatch is a very good grouping experience. Before you know it, you are in a group of 4-6 having a riot because missives are repeatable, easily obtained and not everybody needs to be working on the same missive.
On the other-hand, getting groups, to accomplish a specific quest in a specific dungeon is tougher depending on the locale. The main issue is that a lot of quests in this game are long and involved and may include 5,6, 9-10 steps. Finding a group of folks on the same part, in the same area and within 7 levels of one another decreases the chances of a good group match. This is the part that some have found frustrating in my opinion.
For whatever reason RoTK is cake to group within. It has a big six part quest that is pretty fluid and allows people to catch up on and group together. On the other hand (and I've never been off Thestra to adventure yet), CIS is apparently an extremely hard place to find pick-up groups... dunno why. Perhaps it's the locale or the armor quest structure.
There are so many multi-part quests, and people are so tied to them, that it seems to restrict what people want to do for groups. If instead, or at least in addition, they could add some 1-part quests that were basically tied to killing a dungeon boss, it would be a lot easier to find a common group goal.
Fix what's broken now, then after a year, we can discuss expansion possibilities.
Another "crystal ball"...will Vanguard have enough subscribers to afford creation and production of another expansion?
Anyone have a cost estimate on what it would take to create an expansion?
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
That was a very good post ...nicely written and intelligent.
You made some good points and I agree with many of them ...however...I think you are exaggerating the situation. I think far more people are enjoying Vanguard than OP implies.
I don't think an expansion would be needed to fix VG public retations problem. I aggree that when VG does release an expansion it absolutly has to be stunning. A medicore expansion wouldn't kill the game still though. A piss poor one might. It would certainly be in Sigil's best interest to make sure at all costs that the release of an expansion would be nearly flawless and packed full of new content for all.
It's my guess that you will see Sigil doing everything they can to get everything all fixed up ( much has been done already ) ....by June and then...perhaps...a free two week trial for people to try the game and see the imporvements without commitment. This would be ideal timing to take advantage of the summer crowd...though I cringe at the prospect of thousands of teenagers logging in on free trials...it would be good for the game in the long run.
If they manage to fix the game up to snuff ( fix most bugs and add alot more content ) within the next couple of months and do that free trial....populations will be double by the end of the summer and steadily go up from there.
Anyway, for the "second most expensive MMO ever" with a hundred times less subscribers than the most expensive MMO ever...I wouldn't be overly optimistic about what kind of expansion Vanguard could bring out, if any.
Of course, Vanguard is an SOE published product, and with SOE in charge of marketing and actually selling the game, I doubt they'd mind putting out 1-2 a year if Sigil managed to pony up the money and resources to actually develop the expansions.
Considering we're still without things like helms, an entire trade skill and two classes intended for the game after a three month period...I doubt they could release an expansion worthwhile on an every six-months or yearly basis if their pace so far is any indication.
They had to release a game months early with a 35 million dollar budget. Who in their right mind is going to hand this guy some money to make an expansion?
If I gave you money to write an in depth article about MMORPGs and what you brought back to me was a paper with just an introduction on it, I wouldn't give you more money to try again after your first tank job.
If Sigil has learned anything, they should focus on further completing Vanguard with an expansion and introducing a lot of it's good merits to new players as soon as possible.
Like, UO had it's one-room small houses. Vanguard should have a more readily accessible area for new players to jump in and experience houses pretty quick. Same thing goes for flying mounts...add some giant flying squirrels for new players. Have AES permeate every non-Kill X Loot Y Take to Z quest, so on and so on.
The only mistake I can foresee Sigil making is leaving the current newbie areas the exact same while offloading content to mid- or end-game. Whatever an expansion would add, needs to be accessible day one.
What's wrong with the idea of an underdark? It worked will for the GDQ series of modules so why not here?
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
If u get screwed by a car dealer, would u go back the 2nd time to buy car from them again?
Granted SoE are only publishing, but no doubt Smedly will try to 'encourage' an expansion.
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If Sigil has learned anything, they should focus on further completing Vanguard with an expansion and introducing a lot of it's good merits to new players as soon as possible.
Like, UO had it's one-room small houses. Vanguard should have a more readily accessible area for new players to jump in and experience houses pretty quick. Same thing goes for flying mounts...add some giant flying squirrels for new players. Have AES permeate every non-Kill X Loot Y Take to Z quest, so on and so on.
The only mistake I can foresee Sigil making is leaving the current newbie areas the exact same while offloading content to mid- or end-game. Whatever an expansion would add, needs to be accessible day one.
What's wrong with the idea of an underdark? It worked will for the GDQ series of modules so why not here? Nothing wrong with the idea of an "underdark" as a concept, just chunking on a Z-axis, sandwiching all existing chunks probably isn't in their best interest right now. It's merely how Brad has expressed Vanguard could deal with a land expansion. The point was, I don't think Sigil should have a land expansion considering there's too many newbie areas as is; and double or triple the amount more chunks wouldn't make much sense in an already mostly devoid world.