To those who think NF is better than OF: you are WRONG.

Gfrant

Obviously most people who play these days are going to prefer NF -- it's common sense. They simply wouldn't be playing if they did not enjoy the game. That being said, the population is a lot less now than it used to be. Sure, you could argue that this population drop was ToA related and not because of NF; that NF is completely unrelated in the subscription reduction. Believe me, it is a good argument, and it has mountains of evidence to support it. However, NF was when the sh*t hit the fan for most players. ToA was a lethal wound indeed, but NF was most definitely the final blow. If one examines the subscriber count you'll notice that subscriptions didn't immediately drop after ToA. The major loss of players commenced shortly after NF was released.



Maybe you didn't enjoy the waiting times in OF. Maybe you didn't enjoy running to Emain as a Hib when everyone else didn't have to. Perhaps you thought the standoffs at milegates were uninteresting? Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what any of us think -- the importance is what the subscriber count reflects. More people enjoyed OF because with it came a sense of realm pride. When a zerg was rolled, it was rolled for atleast 20 minutes. There was no insta-porting to help you get back in the fight ASAP, which added a sense of realism. When you waited on the pad to go back, you saw your fellow realm mates, and felt like you were a part of something bigger. You might argue that these things were annoying, but I believe it's these idiosyncracies (and some of the other idiosyncracies of the game, non-pvp related such as the necessity to group and how much harder it was to level) added to the immersion factor of the game. Another thing that played a big roll in this was how realm-specific the frontiers looked. You really felt like you were fighting on foreign soil.



This post has gotten lengthy enough so I'll get down to business with NF

-it sucks

-it's too big

-lands aren't realm specific

-too steep to climb is lame as hell

-the relic keep isn't a keep

-everyone insta teleports back into the fight

-there is no realism

-towers are retarded

-it's LAME



Agree or not. Old Frontiers was better from the standpoint of the consumer and the producer.

Emmeric

Amen

 

NF is ill take the keep and then we all sit on the roof and corners with trebs and level the tower and casters snd NPC wall guards that we purchase will kill the intruders sure to follow......

Or we take tower get it to level 10 where the archer class arrows cant reach the roof and assasins cant climb into so our bolters can roll everything from above almost untuchable..

LAME and BORING account cancelled...

2 years later come ack new x-pac more over powered classes and items geared to the so called "Hardcore" player....

Who quit when toa/NF came out all the casual players who relized they where pvp fodder for the lifers, give me Classic/SI anyday

Out side of the Thidranki and Molvik BG where even the 15 hour aweek player can compete. No point in playing.

Or grind to 50 get rolled by the zerg in NF or Labby.. Get ticked off because u realize casual play = dead player...

Rogend

I completely agree with this post. While I absolutely hated ToA; I was still willing to play. When they realeased NF I canceled my account. NF was not the reason I quit...but the final nail in the coffin.



I tried re-activating my account to find that leveling had been reduced to instance dungeons only, and I lost my intrest there. There was lots of new stuff to explore, but trying to find anyone to explore it with was near impossible. I'm not sure about numbers, but I'm pretty sure catacombs was just another messed up expansion. They made it so it wasn't worth leveling anywhere but in instances, and a lot of the fun of DAoC for me was exploring.

Ogrelin

---

Originally posted by Rogend
I completely agree with this post. While I absolutely hated ToA; I was still willing to play. When they realeased NF I canceled my account. NF was not the reason I quit...but the final nail in the coffin.I tried re-activating my account to find that leveling had been reduced to instance dungeons only, and I lost my intrest there. There was lots of new stuff to explore, but trying to find anyone to explore it with was near impossible. I'm not sure about numbers, but I'm pretty sure catacombs was just another messed up expansion. They made it so it wasn't worth leveling anywhere but in instances, and a lot of the fun of DAoC for me was exploring.

---

NOBODY is using instances nowdays...

I agree somewhat on what the OP said, the OF added to the realmpride, you got to know ppl while u sat on the pad waiting for port ect...

But I can't say I miss old emain, it was hell for me and many others. The only times it was fun was of hours when the FGs where gone so you could make it on your own to AMG and camp it or if I manage to get a group during primetime.

NF offers more diffent ways to earn rps, nowdays it's really to BIG though

While I miss the times of OF and the ppl I used to play with, I really prefer NF. Lets hope they change the fronteirs again so those who miss OF can find fun again to, there is room for all types of players.

tiki

I still am subscribed to DAOC and play every once in a while.  That doesnt mean i perfect NF to OF.



Id play OF any day before id play NF, but it is still daoc so its still some fun to me.



My main argument about NF is that it totally erased all the landmarks of old memories of the oldschool game, like thimble, the MG's, forget the damn things name but that annoying fucken orge that agros u at clipping range when your running out to emain as a hib, god i miss that annoying bastard.  Now its becoming harder every week to try and remember the land and the good times out there.



I remember way back on lancelot about 180 people /leveled animists so there was about 180 lvl 30 animists and about 20 lvl 50 animists holding off a bunch of albs at AMG with  like a 1000 shrooms lol, the good times.

tiki

raemonn or somthing like that was the ogres name i think now that i think about it

Werppa

Sorry for being mean but I think that no one cares about your opinion or "facts" why player base is low or why NF suck. The straight truth is that OF won't come back, no matter how much you throw dirt at NF. I enjoy daoc as it is now and that's it.

[/rant]

Jetrpg

Originally posted by Gfrant

...

Maybe you didn't enjoy the waiting times in OF. Maybe you didn't enjoy running to Emain as a Hib when everyone else didn't have to. Perhaps you thought the standoffs at milegates were uninteresting? Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what any of us think -- the importance is what the subscriber count reflects. More people enjoyed OF because with it came a sense of realm pride.

...

Agree or not. Old Frontiers was better from the standpoint of the consumer and the producer.

Your arguemnt does not hold water.



Why becuase if that had been the only changed to the game and the subs had went down ... then you would have an arguemnt, however other factors are in play. Such as TOA, other new mmos, etc.



Bunching two numbers between a out of context fact means nothing.





What would i say , i liked old front a bit more. i loved the hill. But still i like the breakable aspect of NF, i think i may like the buildigns of NF and the placement /fronteirs of OF.

fulmanfu

---

Originally posted by Ogrelin
NOBODY is using instances nowdays...

---

off topic but w/e
just curious, i quit about 6-8 months ago(right before expansion) and it was nonstop td's, how are people lvl'ing now if NOBODY uses them anymore? was it something in that minotaur expansion?

tiki

Originally posted by Werppa


Sorry for being mean but I think that no one cares about your opinion or "facts" why player base is low or why NF suck. The straight truth is that OF won't come back, no matter how much you throw dirt at NF. I enjoy daoc as it is now and that's it.
[/rant]

y does everyone come into a discussion and say that "no one cares" or "this thread is useless", everyone knows this thread wont get back OF but ppl enjoy talking about OF and what was good about it.  Forums are made to discusse issues that people like and dislike and many thousands of people dont like NF.

tiki

Originally posted by fulmanfu


 

Originally posted by Ogrelin


NOBODY is using instances nowdays...
 

off topic but w/e

just curious, i quit about 6-8 months ago(right before expansion) and it was nonstop td's, how are people lvl'ing now if NOBODY uses them anymore? was it something in that minotaur expansion?

no, no one uses instances now because either no one is leveling or they are powerleveling themselves or buying a powerlevel

Werppa

Tiki: This thread doesn't seem to be for discussing the good things about OF, this is for bashing NF it seems. And besides, how can I see fg's or groups of 4-5 people running around xping without some lvl 50 necro pl'ing them? it means that people aren't just pl'ing all the time and you were (again) generalizing by saying that. Have you even played daoc in last 4-6 months because it seems that you haven't.

Ogrelin

---

Originally posted by fulmanfu
Originally posted by Ogrelin
NOBODY is using instances nowdays...

off topic but w/e
just curious, i quit about 6-8 months ago(right before expansion) and it was nonstop td's, how are people lvl'ing now if NOBODY uses them anymore? was it something in that minotaur expansion?

---

The exp is much better in SI,classic zones, and RvR zones. in rvrzone exp is 200% of normal and in SI/classic it's 150% at 40+ you can do quests that give 1-2 bubs of exp in catacombs

I have levled many chars on the classic servers in normal groups and solo, no plvl for me.

Ogrelin

---

Originally posted by tiki
Originally posted by fulmanfu  

Originally posted by OgrelinNOBODY is using instances nowdays...
 

off topic but w/e
just curious, i quit about 6-8 months ago(right before expansion) and it was nonstop td's, how are people lvl'ing now if NOBODY uses them anymore? was it something in that minotaur expansion?

---

no, no one uses instances now because either no one is leveling or they are powerleveling themselves or buying a powerlevel

---

You don't play DAoC, do you? not on the same server as my atleast.

tiki

i have many 50's on every cluster actually

Dreneth

Ah yes... I remember the days when you would have to message people when the next port into the battlegrounds was coming...  I always play Hibbies... so it was all about sending tells to the people who were still in the fray:  "Glasny on the pad... if you are going to die... do it now"



Just came back after 4 years of being elsewhere... I'm still having fun with it... and I really haven't seen much better anywhere else.

Shazzel

ToA was cancer



NF was dying to cancer

Ogrelin

Guess I like cancer then...

Dreneth

None of the changes have impeded my ability to enjoy myself...  the ability to adapt to change will go a long way in bringing you hapiness in life.  ( teasing, no offense intended )

Kyleran

I never could adjust to the changes.  I despised the extra PVE raiding TOA brought, and when NF came out I just wasn't interested in learning the "new" content.  So I left.



I came back for a short while last fall, got me 4-5 new 49's and 50's, but just couldn't get into the new frontiers.  I guess I just missed the fun I had in the OF so once again I quit.



Sure, lots of folks love NF....they wouldn't be rr 13 if they didn't.... but I do miss the good old days.... such as they were...

daeandor

My minor opinion only:



NF was a great advancement in RvR conceptually.  Seriously, the mechanics that they put in place are very nice and fun to play with.  Sadly, the concept did not work when transferred into the existing RvR.  Personally, I would have loved RvR if they kept the zones and keeps the same as OF and implemented the NF mechanics of seige, updating warmaps, RA revamp.  Right now the RvR world is just too big for the populations and teleporting a zerg is just lame.

Werppa

Hopefully this isn't terribly off-topic but does anyone have any idea what kind of revamp Mythic plans to do for NF? Do only keeps change or does something else change too?

JulianDracos

1.  I agree with most of the compliants against NF  (most not all).

2.  OF sucked ass.  Ports sucked.  Running to Emain sucked.  Mile gate standoffs got boring.  It was way unfair to Hib.  The game was not about siege, but about who could get the largest zerg out there in the quickest amount of time. 

3.  The New NF is coming out this summer.  It will be more than just keep redesign. 

4.  ToA did not decrease the population, nor did NF.  Both contributed to people playing less not canceling their accounts. 





One thing in the OP that I think is insighful and right, but wrong about the cause - realm loyalty.  When this went so did much of the game.  NF didn't kill it, it was dead before NF arivied.  Changes over the past few years have made things only worse.  RvR now is much more like a fantasy FPS than it is about defending your realm.  Back then you played one realm.  You hated the other realms.  You helped out your realm mates.  PUGs were common.  It was about kicking the ass of your enemy and not about the realm points. 



Now, almost no one cares about the realm.  It is about how how high I can get my realm rank.  If you are in a PUG that gets rolled, then almost everyone leaves and looks for another group.  No one wants to lead, they just want to follow and win a 30 second fight to get more realm points.  Getting into better groups requires cookie-cutter characters and voicechat.  If you login and are loosing, you then login into the other side and get realm points over there. 



What caused this lack of realm loyalty:



1.  The huge leveling time caused people to want things to be as quick as possible with the next toon generating an elite hard core attitidue from certain players.

2.  ToA made it impossible for the casual player to keep up.  It thus drove them away, kept them in the BG, or kept them just leveling toons for PvE. 

3.  Powerful RAs kept casual players out.

4.  Voice chat gives unfair advantage and reduces chatter thus cutting out the casual player again. 

5.  Rewards are best for 8 man groups and not zerg or keep taking. 

6.  Instead of gradually making things easier for new players over the years, then just quickly got very easy making it easy and desirable to play on other realms. 

7.  Lack of attracting new players.



Notcing a trend here?  The community was destroyed and then rewards were designed around those hard core players that cared more about winning for their character than winning for the realm.  When you drive away the casual player, you drive away your most realm loyal player.  They do not have the time to play another realm so they stick there.  They do not mind dying as long as they get some kills in and feel like they are helping their realm.  Damage was done before and after, but ToA, regardless of the subscriber number, did more to destory the community and the realm loyalty with it than any other factor. 

daeandor

Yeah, realm switching on the same cluster has become a real lame game...

Ravkeen

Ok I for one like NF I also see people still playing after TOA and NF and mythic also released 3 more expansions after TOA. So people can cry and wine like little girls and say that when mythic released TOA and NF that killed the game it was the nail in the coffin. But wait the game is still around and people are still playing if the game was dead people would not be playing now.  So the keyword for today is adept or move on and play WOW or something.  And stop you will never see OF again.

Rogend

Originally posted by Ogrelin


 
NOBODY is using instances nowdays...

Really? maybe I should give a try again then...