The quests are NOT grinding like most say. They weave a story that is not only insteresting, but also immersive. Yes some are fluff or generic, but even those tend to lead into interesting troubles the populace is facing. EQ2 caters to the lore of EQ1 which is kind of nice to say, hey I recall that zone from EQ1, cool its in the game and that is about as far as that goes. LOTRO actually makes you feel like war is impending and you are trying to survive and defeat the greater evil. There is no game that puts you more into the feeling of being in a game world than LOTRO from quests to npcs, trees and buildings, etc. It all meshes 100% together for a true uniform feeling.
All the classes have a purpose and arn't just watered down clones of each other like the 24 in EQ2. You won't get the same 8 skills upgraded every 10 levels like in eq2. Instead you get an entire set from 1 to 50 with brand new skills all the way. You only upgrade skills through using them, not gaining levels.
Expansions are likely to be finished when you buy them or they are free. EQ2 has a nasty rep for buggy unfinished content and tries to nickle and dime you with extra changes. Some have been done away with though
As for innovation, I guess everyone is overlooking the revolution in PvP play. You can play on the side of sauron and fight the players or you can take your character and go fight people playing the roll of the evil army. That alone has some pretty big potential.
One of the posters above sweepingly mentioned how most who criticize EQ2 only mention the company and in the same breath mention how awesome EQ2 it.... Yet they never state what really makes eq2 awesome save being some mature adult only game... It is no more mature than any other game.
Honestly, EQ2 caters to people who want to the grind crowd and uses outdated mechaincs like load times between zones. It doesn't do anything particularly well and has a long past of troubled game mechanics and poor game design decisions that are often undone with sweeping untested changes by the devs. The game might have finally made it to the point of being playable, but LOTRO has a great start and isn't playing retrofit like EQ2. There is already free content annouced for June to add more quests and areas of middle earth. My money would be on LOTRO based on the spotted EQ2 history.
I wish people would quit comparing eq2 of old with the New and improved eq2. So you say eq2 nickel and dimes you huh? well how come they added unrest in a update, deathfist was redone, they added new mounts in the game. Eq2 is the best mmo on the market and i can't see how people are so blind to see this.
Again with the EQ2 is the bestest! Sounds like the same old battered wife syndrome to me. No offense, but that is the impression most make here. No reasons, just the same old chanting. Every game has its die hards who proclaim the games awesomeness.
Maybe people don't see it because it isn't true. LOTRO has nailed fun gameplay right out of the gate. They are showing that they understand gameplay and it won't take years to try and get things right. If the choices were to play a game that is starting of with sound immersive gameplay that is interesting or play a game that has struggled with server mergers, complete overhauls and has more monetary charges that any other game, which would you honestly recommend?
Daffid011 , thats the whole point. LOTRO is NOT immersive. Its hairpulling boredom. Its nothing new. Its WoW in an LOTR wrapper.
Its LOTR. They could have done immensely better. You know why its such a big hit right now? it was just released and it appeals to the lowest common denominator gaming. I've played it. It sucks.
If you haven't played EQ2 by now, really no reason to bother. It looked (and played) dull and old when it was new, and it looked (and played) dull and old when I tried it out again 2 months ago.
All that matters to me is I have fun playing it and think it is the best mmo on the market, everyone can have there own opinion. And i played lotro beta and have to say i had fun for like a week and then it got boring. And morie is right it is just like wow in a wrapper, less content and classes are not that fun to play, and combat is slower than wow or eq2.
I can respect that you all enjoy EQ2, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game. I also know its hard to hear criticism of something you enjoy.
However, it has had a long spotted past dealing with problems and design flaws which is why more people don't play. Some people can deal with it, but most can't. EQ2 isn't some breakthrough game that does anything different than most MMOs including WoW. It doesn't break any molds or revolutionize anything. It has consistantly added or cloned aspects of other games while dumping concepts it tried to pioneer.
LOTRO is well written, bug free, does quests well, visually beuatiful and offers plenty of content for a game at launch with more coming in two months. Saying that it lacks content after playing 15 levels is just a bit biased IMHO. It will provide excellent entertainment value to a fairly wide audience.
Given all that I suggest LOTRO because it will provide fun without the frustration associated with Sony games. They also won't have to level up 50+ levels just to catch up to everyone else who plays.
To imply that LoTRo is a better game than EQII seems insane to me. I have played both, or I would not be commenting, but LotRo really offered nothing new to me other than maybe the monster combat which IMO was a weak attempt to pacify the PvP'ers.
I am not trying to bash LoTRo, if you are a player and enjoy the game, well its great you found something you enjoy, there are many MMO players wandering an empty land right now that have nothing they are happy with. But, why keep comparing it to other games? Its not a contest of which game is better, simply play what you like, rate what you like, and dont slam other games that different people are enjoying.
No need to keep having tinkling contests over which game is best right now, support the game you enjoy, but dont slander those that you do not, and why compare, there is no reason really, people have different tastes, accept that not everyone is going to agree with your opinion.
I can respect that you all enjoy EQ2, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game. I also know its hard to hear criticism of something you enjoy.
However, it has had a long spotted past dealing with problems and design flaws which is why more people don't play. Some people can deal with it, but most can't. EQ2 isn't some breakthrough game that does anything different than most MMOs including WoW. It doesn't break any molds or revolutionize anything. It has consistantly added or cloned aspects of other games while dumping concepts it tried to pioneer.
LOTRO is well written, bug free, does quests well, visually beuatiful and offers plenty of content for a game at launch with more coming in two months. Saying that it lacks content after playing 15 levels is just a bit biased IMHO. It will provide excellent entertainment value to a fairly wide audience.
Given all that I suggest LOTRO because it will provide fun without the frustration associated with Sony games. They also won't have to level up 50+ levels just to catch up to everyone else who plays.
I know it’s hard to hear that your criticism is a load of crap. The solution is to think your criticism though more thoroughly and not try pass off pretension and arrogance as reason.
LoTRO s a good game and will be a great experience for a beginner to the MMO world but it won’t keep a veteran happy for long. For that you will need a more substantive game like EQ2.
I can respect that you all enjoy EQ2, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game. I also know its hard to hear criticism of something you enjoy.
However, it has had a long spotted past dealing with problems and design flaws which is why more people don't play. Some people can deal with it, but most can't. EQ2 isn't some breakthrough game that does anything different than most MMOs including WoW. It doesn't break any molds or revolutionize anything. It has consistantly added or cloned aspects of other games while dumping concepts it tried to pioneer.
LOTRO is well written, bug free, does quests well, visually beuatiful and offers plenty of content for a game at launch with more coming in two months. Saying that it lacks content after playing 15 levels is just a bit biased IMHO. It will provide excellent entertainment value to a fairly wide audience.
Given all that I suggest LOTRO because it will provide fun without the frustration associated with Sony games. They also won't have to level up 50+ levels just to catch up to everyone else who plays.
LotRO has a HUGE design flaw, and so much so they even give you a title for it, THE UNDEFEATED. The biggest design flaw in the game and so they name it and give you a title for it. What a piece of crap that game was. I love how they copied the EQ1 epic quest design and now everyone thinks that's so revolutionary. The same get me 10X stuff in every game on the market.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
LOTRO doesn't do anything new? Ok, what does EQ2 do that is so new and makes it a great game? OK PvP in LOTRO was put in to pacify the PvP folk. Yet the same exact thing was done in EQ2 as a retrofit which makes PvP an afterthought and a secondary concern for a PvEcentric game. The difficulty of LOTRO (the undefeated) isn't a design flaw, it is a playstyle and marketing choice. Example of design flaws are shared group debt, no auctions unless you are online, Qeynos vs Freeport faction war or class archtype sysytem. Things that were taken out of a game because they did not work are good examples of design flaws. In fact there has been alot of reasoning why people don't like LOTRO, some of the same applies to EQ2 even. All the while there is little if any to be read about what makes EQ2 so great.
I pointed out the shortcommings of EQ2 and why it is a niche game. The original poster asked for opinions and I gave mine. No one has shown my points to be incorrect, save a few harsh words tossed my way.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I pointed out the shortcommings of EQ2 and why it is a niche game. The original poster asked for opinions and I gave mine. No one has shown my points to be incorrect, save a few harsh words tossed my way.
Actuly You keep saying you pointed out the shortcomings in EQ2 without ever having done so. If you are going to claim a game has shortcomings at least have the balls to come out and say what you think they are.
Harsh words have been tossed your way and for good reason. You have acted like a condescending a**, and even worse shown no wit or knowledge to justify your pretensions.
Originally posted by Daffid011 Example of design flaws are shared group debt, no auctions unless you are online, Qeynos vs Freeport faction war or class archtype sysytem. Things that were taken out of a game because they did not work are good examples of design flaws. In fact there has been alot of reasoning why people don't like LOTRO, some of the same applies to EQ2 even. All the while there is little if any to be read about what makes EQ2 so great.
I guess this is your attempt at listing the shortcomings you refer to, of course some of them have long since been changed and those that havent you are simply wrong about.
Shared debt was a good idea, just not a popular one. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and go with the lowest common denominator.
It was made clear very early on that offline selling was something that would likely be made available eventually but that they felt it would be detrimental to the early economy. Whether you agree with that position or not is irrelevant, its what happened and it worked.
There is no huge faction war between Qeynos and Freeport and there never has been. They are ideological opposites who until very recently had been allies but are now entering a cold war. PvP is of the spy vs spy type stuff that occurred between the Soviet Union and the US from 1945-1985. The main protagonists that both need to face are the dragons, their plotting and scheming and the potential return of Kerafyrm (the sleeper).
The Archetype class subclass system works beautifully and has allowed for a large number of distinct classes with a class balance that is unprecedented.
As for what makes EQ2 great, its pretty simple. Graphics, sounds, quality of content, quantity of content, game balance, class balance, middle of the road playstyle with plenty to offer just about any gameplay preference you can name, variety of zone types, and the ability to log in get to where you need to go and do something productive in a reasonable amount of time.
If you want innovation (not necessarily a great thing for a mature genre, because attempts to innovate often end up fixing things that were never broken) there are some nice takeaways from EQ2. The scripted instances like Nec Castle and Unrest come to mind as does the Achievement system and its dependence on completing content rather then grinding to further customize your character. (LoTRO is one of the first games to come up with its own spin on this but I doubt it will be the last.) The Archetype system, where you have multiple classes all having the same primary role but different ways of accomplishing it and different strengths and weaknesses, is also an innovation I expect to see many games adapting in the future.
LOTRO is brand new and it's already a fantastic game right at launch. It took EQ2 over a year to get to where LOTRO is right at launch. There's new content coming in June, it's performance is stellar, and it's based on great lore.
To me - it's better to get into a great game right from the start than to pickup a 3 year old game and try to catch up with all the lvl 70 folks.
Find a buddy key for both games from someone and try them both out though because each person has their own personal opinion.
Comments
Reasons:
The quests are NOT grinding like most say. They weave a story that is not only insteresting, but also immersive. Yes some are fluff or generic, but even those tend to lead into interesting troubles the populace is facing. EQ2 caters to the lore of EQ1 which is kind of nice to say, hey I recall that zone from EQ1, cool its in the game and that is about as far as that goes. LOTRO actually makes you feel like war is impending and you are trying to survive and defeat the greater evil. There is no game that puts you more into the feeling of being in a game world than LOTRO from quests to npcs, trees and buildings, etc. It all meshes 100% together for a true uniform feeling.
All the classes have a purpose and arn't just watered down clones of each other like the 24 in EQ2. You won't get the same 8 skills upgraded every 10 levels like in eq2. Instead you get an entire set from 1 to 50 with brand new skills all the way. You only upgrade skills through using them, not gaining levels.
Expansions are likely to be finished when you buy them or they are free. EQ2 has a nasty rep for buggy unfinished content and tries to nickle and dime you with extra changes. Some have been done away with though
As for innovation, I guess everyone is overlooking the revolution in PvP play. You can play on the side of sauron and fight the players or you can take your character and go fight people playing the roll of the evil army. That alone has some pretty big potential.
One of the posters above sweepingly mentioned how most who criticize EQ2 only mention the company and in the same breath mention how awesome EQ2 it.... Yet they never state what really makes eq2 awesome save being some mature adult only game... It is no more mature than any other game.
Honestly, EQ2 caters to people who want to the grind crowd and uses outdated mechaincs like load times between zones. It doesn't do anything particularly well and has a long past of troubled game mechanics and poor game design decisions that are often undone with sweeping untested changes by the devs. The game might have finally made it to the point of being playable, but LOTRO has a great start and isn't playing retrofit like EQ2. There is already free content annouced for June to add more quests and areas of middle earth. My money would be on LOTRO based on the spotted EQ2 history.
Maybe people don't see it because it isn't true. LOTRO has nailed fun gameplay right out of the gate. They are showing that they understand gameplay and it won't take years to try and get things right. If the choices were to play a game that is starting of with sound immersive gameplay that is interesting or play a game that has struggled with server mergers, complete overhauls and has more monetary charges that any other game, which would you honestly recommend?
Its LOTR. They could have done immensely better. You know why its such a big hit right now? it was just released and it appeals to the lowest common denominator gaming. I've played it. It sucks.
If you haven't played EQ2 by now, really no reason to bother. It looked (and played) dull and old when it was new, and it looked (and played) dull and old when I tried it out again 2 months ago.
However, it has had a long spotted past dealing with problems and design flaws which is why more people don't play. Some people can deal with it, but most can't. EQ2 isn't some breakthrough game that does anything different than most MMOs including WoW. It doesn't break any molds or revolutionize anything. It has consistantly added or cloned aspects of other games while dumping concepts it tried to pioneer.
LOTRO is well written, bug free, does quests well, visually beuatiful and offers plenty of content for a game at launch with more coming in two months. Saying that it lacks content after playing 15 levels is just a bit biased IMHO. It will provide excellent entertainment value to a fairly wide audience.
Given all that I suggest LOTRO because it will provide fun without the frustration associated with Sony games. They also won't have to level up 50+ levels just to catch up to everyone else who plays.
I am not trying to bash LoTRo, if you are a player and enjoy the game, well its great you found something you enjoy, there are many MMO players wandering an empty land right now that have nothing they are happy with. But, why keep comparing it to other games? Its not a contest of which game is better, simply play what you like, rate what you like, and dont slam other games that different people are enjoying.
No need to keep having tinkling contests over which game is best right now, support the game you enjoy, but dont slander those that you do not, and why compare, there is no reason really, people have different tastes, accept that not everyone is going to agree with your opinion.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I pointed out the shortcommings of EQ2 and why it is a niche game. The original poster asked for opinions and I gave mine. No one has shown my points to be incorrect, save a few harsh words tossed my way.
Actuly You keep saying you pointed out the shortcomings in EQ2 without ever having done so. If you are going to claim a game has shortcomings at least have the balls to come out and say what you think they are.
Harsh words have been tossed your way and for good reason. You have acted like a condescending a**, and even worse shown no wit or knowledge to justify your pretensions.
I guess this is your attempt at listing the shortcomings you refer to, of course some of them have long since been changed and those that havent you are simply wrong about.
Shared debt was a good idea, just not a popular one. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and go with the lowest common denominator.
It was made clear very early on that offline selling was something that would likely be made available eventually but that they felt it would be detrimental to the early economy. Whether you agree with that position or not is irrelevant, its what happened and it worked.
There is no huge faction war between Qeynos and Freeport and there never has been. They are ideological opposites who until very recently had been allies but are now entering a cold war. PvP is of the spy vs spy type stuff that occurred between the Soviet Union and the US from 1945-1985. The main protagonists that both need to face are the dragons, their plotting and scheming and the potential return of Kerafyrm (the sleeper).
The Archetype class subclass system works beautifully and has allowed for a large number of distinct classes with a class balance that is unprecedented.
As for what makes EQ2 great, its pretty simple. Graphics, sounds, quality of content, quantity of content, game balance, class balance, middle of the road playstyle with plenty to offer just about any gameplay preference you can name, variety of zone types, and the ability to log in get to where you need to go and do something productive in a reasonable amount of time.
If you want innovation (not necessarily a great thing for a mature genre, because attempts to innovate often end up fixing things that were never broken) there are some nice takeaways from EQ2. The scripted instances like Nec Castle and Unrest come to mind as does the Achievement system and its dependence on completing content rather then grinding to further customize your character. (LoTRO is one of the first games to come up with its own spin on this but I doubt it will be the last.) The Archetype system, where you have multiple classes all having the same primary role but different ways of accomplishing it and different strengths and weaknesses, is also an innovation I expect to see many games adapting in the future.
LOTRO is brand new and it's already a fantastic game right at launch. It took EQ2 over a year to get to where LOTRO is right at launch. There's new content coming in June, it's performance is stellar, and it's based on great lore.
To me - it's better to get into a great game right from the start than to pickup a 3 year old game and try to catch up with all the lvl 70 folks.
Find a buddy key for both games from someone and try them both out though because each person has their own personal opinion.