the banned ones, an explanation

genericname1

wow, ignorance?



we were banned for the exact same offence that more than 30 people commited, we got the following PM on the forums



Seems we have a problem. I suggest you come clean with all you know about this "taxing" of weapons. If you come clean and tell us what is happening and who knows about/is using this you'll only be nailed up for awhile. If we have to take the time away from development to go through our logs to find it out ourselves you'll be nailed up for far longer/perminantly (read: banned).



I'll be sending this same PM to others; whoever comes clean will be shown lienency. Whoever does not will have their character and alts nailed up.



Why some people do this sort of stuff is beyond me. If you like the game so much why on earth would you create a situation that would cause us to take time away development time from it to discover what is happening when you can just come out and tell us as soon as you find it.



Personally I’m not mad so much as I’m disappointed. Now KFR’s mad, don’t doubt that for a second.





I replied...



From:      philjwill

To:     Kanoth

Posted:     Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:12 pm

Subject:     Ghosting    

on behalf of all of CI and the scots, I'm sending this pm to say that we did indeed exploit, but we all trained for close on 13 hours a day, at wich point we would all have got massive gains anyway, also, The reason why this bug was exploited so much is that the romans are currently extremely overpowered at the moment, we were getting crushed in battle due to a mix of lag and and inexperienced playerbase, we have all nevertheless trained more than 24 hours total in the last fgew days, even three days ago when we weren't using it we had been, I gained 23 points in spear, only parry points were really affected speedwise.

Cultus Immortalium and The Scots



_________________







so, I replied, got another PM telling me to get the rest to PM individually.

I did so,  the others PM'ed too...





next we know, we get this  e-mail...

Our log records indicate that your account was recently involved in the exploitation of an unreported bug.



The bug in question would cause a fatigued character to fail to correctly drop their equipped item when disarmed.  A "ghosted" copy of the item would remain visible in the player character's hand and could be targeted in order to prevent injury during combat training.  The disarmed item would continue to degrade in quality but as it was neither considered as part of the character inventory nor as a dropped object, it would not be destroyed when it reached zero quality level.  Doubtless exploiters would have seen multiple "Your xxx has broken" messages while the image of the corresponding item remained.  In fact the logs do indicate that in some cases certain individuals would have experienced this self-evidently incorrect behaviour several thousand times in the space of two weeks.



It is imperative that all bugs, exploitable or not, are reported to RedBedlam as soon as they are discovered.  In cases such as this, where the bug was kept secret within a small subsection of the community in order to maximise its exploitation, the resultant perceived imbalance and the impact on developer resources is unacceptable.



The time taken for RedBedlam developers to investigate the bug themselves, with no guidance whatsoever from those exploiting it, has a significant impact on the entire community by delaying important updates, expansions and fixes.  After we had confirmed the existence of the bug, we posted about it asking all those involved to communicate directly with us.

http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=20238



Within hours of the bug being explained clearly to us, a fix was deployed to the live servers.  This serves to illustrate that whenever a serious exploitable bug arises there are two possibilities.

Either:

1) The bug is reported to us promptly and with as much supporting information as possible.  It will usually be fixed, as in this example and countless others, within a matter of hours, thereby reducing the impact to the community to an absolute minimum.

Or:

2) The bug is not reported to us at all and is exploited by a few players until it is discovered by us.  Without any feedback or guidance from those that had discovered and/or are exploiting the bug, it will take longer to be fixed and the entire community will therefore be adversely affected.  This is not acceptable and anyone found to be cheating in this way is likely to have their account(s) terminated.



We have therefore taken steps today to make this situation clear to all of those involved.  We have processed the logs and analysed the actions of each player during the two-week period that this particular bug was being exploited.



As a result of this investigation, six Roma Victor accounts have been permanently banned.  Seven player characters are to be crucified, which involves a seven-day suspension combined with a high visibility in-game identification of the character in question.  Six accounts are to be discreetly suspended for five days, fifteen accounts will be suspended for three days and sixteen individuals will simply receive this letter due to the presence of mitigating circumstances.



Your account has been terminated.



The Terms and Conditions of Service, which describes the agreement between Roma Victor Account Key holders and RedBedlam, is available here:

http://www.roma-victor.com/tacos/



Please do not reply to this e-mail.  Any queries in regard to this judgement can be directed to abuse@redbedlam.com.



With our regards,



RedBedlam





not exactly leniency is it?





as for me griefing, yes, I have in the past griefed a couple of people, but so have the 18th, 29th, CV, etc... they weren't baned for spawncamping, neither were we.

the worst things I have done were in IRC and not in any way connected to the game, so far as I know the devs can't take action against me for annoying people in their IRC channel...

just because I'm a member of CI doesn't mean I'm automatically evil..



also, explain ajax of the scots being banned, he was relatively new to the game and hadn't griefed or killed anyone EVER.



having been with this game for three years and on the forums for longer, I don't think this is any way to actually treat your customers, first, you send a PM promising leniency, then you get permabanned for it, they did not ban us for griefing, they banned us for the bug exploit, when some who knew and exploited the bug for over two weeks were left with 3 and 5 day bans, does this explain my behaviour on the roma-victor forums any?





the bans were ExZ, kruniac, ajax and me...

capito hasn't played in a year, me and ExZ haven't been friends for a LONG time.

basing the theories on why we were banned on the fact that I go around killing newbs for their shoes (wich was over a year ago anyway) is stupid in this case.....



over 30 people 'misbehaved' to the same and a larger degree, yet we are singled out, kanoth sent me an e-mail with the reasons, wich were basically that the ToS states that they can ban you no a whim anyway, a game that has kept me playing for this long has to be a good one, make no mistake, I love this game, I just disagree about the way they treated a select few of us.



THAT is why I'l on their forums protesting this right now,  I know I'm not getting unbanned at all since KFR's word is FINAL, I want to know how they picked those of us who were permabanned, it seems like they just threw a load of names into the hat and picked them out...



this is a link of players who agree with us, read the PM's they and I said and judge for yourself.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RVpetition/signatures.html

tkobo

Hahhahahahah FAR too funny.

You always have some excuse .Its always poor.

You and many others who play that game are its worst feature

Sure the game is in a horrible state, but "people" like you did more harm to that games meager chance of becoming something than all save the devs themselves.

So again I laugh.

You got what youve deserved for quite sometime now. That you were not punished for all your transgressions, yet cry out like some little infant about how the punishment for the few you are finally punished for is too severe, is the funniest thing ive read in some time.

Hhahahhahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahha

You all should have been banned in sept of last year, if not before that.

BUt , feel free to keep telling us all, how your not that bad a person.How youre being punished unfairly.

I among others, WILL find it very amusing.

Hahhahahahahhahahahaha

genericname1

so, your point is, that you don't give a shit? then don't reply.

also, you say we should all have been banned last year? wow, the devs didn't seem to think so...

 

the point stands that we did not receive the leniency we were promised.

 

dude, how else would you get around the ban without that account being banned?

they still haven't got rid of me from those forums anyway...

sorry, case of mistaken Identity I think...

genericname1

 

this was deleted so I cleaned it up a bit...

I never said I wasn't " a bad person" I'm just explaining that this is not why we were banned, we were banned for the bug abuse, read the above e-mail sent by redbedlam themselves...

read before you speak.

on top of that, one of the peoiple who got permabanned has only been ingame  for a bloody month, hasn't set a foot wrong s'far as I can see, others were tempbanned, while we were permabanned, we all got the same e-mail, we all got the same reasons, idiot.



just because you got killed a few times in an MMORPG a year back does not mean you have the right to be all high and righteous, if you got permabanned for the same reasons others get crucified, then you would be angry too

holy baby jesus! i would seem that you, at the moment are a minority..come back when you get a clue http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RVpetition/signatures.html

 

tkobo

No, again you miss the point entirely.
I do care that you were banned. I FIND IT VERY FUNNY in fact.
What i dont really care about, is which of the numerous reasons the devs should have banned you for, they actually finally decided to use as a reason, to do so.
It says alot about the devs that they only now have decided to remove you from the game you were harming.
<Mod edit>

Zakke87

What I don't understand is why you bring it up here? You should contact the moderators on the RV boards, nobody here will or can do anything about it phil.

tkobo

Whats to understand ?

He feels the need to continue to do what he wants ,despite how bad it is for the game, and so comes here to try and hurt the game further by making himself and those punished out to be the victims, and the devs out as the villains.

Dirt laundry, and his fellings of being scorned, sum up his reasons perfectly.

 

 

genericname1

because that's not the point of this thread zakke, the point is that you lot were saying we were banned because we griefed, when we were banned for exploiting the same thing everyone did, I have contacted the RV devs, and had little or no reply, this petition was started to  at least get some kind of reply...





http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RVpetition/



now I do't care about the reasons tkobo stated for me being banned and what I should've been banned for, the fact is that nearly every guild/legion/warband has been guilty of these things, just because, as a barbarian I killed some newbs, etc, wich a barbarian is perfectly entitled to do, doesn't mean I should get banned, take the CV incident, wich most people agree killed erring, not the shoe banditry.

did they get banned? no, did we get banned for that? again , no...



this is not ironic, this is lying to the players,  I don't care if one or two people think I got what I deserved, it's the way in wich I got it that annoys me...

promising leniency in that PM, wich over thirty people can confirm individually, then not being given it, as stated in the e-mail that around thirty people received, is not just.



what exactly have I done in the last six months that is so bad tkobo, tell me, do you even play? have you EVER played? if you want to accuse people of stuff, at least get your facts straight, the devs do not ban people for offences they commited over half a year ago. what I did then is of no consequence.

peenk

You exploited the game/bug. You lied when you Agreed to the terms when playing the game online.

The devs lied to you about being not banning you in return.  Seems like it was pretty fair.

Cheating in any online game is by far the worst offense because it effects all other people playing along with you.  You got what deserve you lame spl0!ter.

genericname1

wait a second, others lied to the devs when they said they agreed too, why were they NOT banned?



a whole faction exploited this, and didn't get banned for the most part, explain.



keep in mind that the sides are also totally unbalanced and there's only 8-12 people in erring getting raided every day and totally smashed. we ALL exploited.

Zakke87

I don't have any harsh feelings against you phil (anymore ;-) ), but it's still pointless to post about it here. Wait for the dev reply on your pms instead of whining on mmorpg. Hopefully you'll get a more lenient punishment if you are telling us the whole truth. It's up to the devs.

genericname1

this is the thing, the devs claim to be the most commucative devs around, always telling the community why, they won't tell US why, even though  me and ExZ have been around for three years. they just won't reply. whenever anybody posts about this in the forums, it gets deleted within 15 seconds, it just seems like they want to keep the reasons quiet.

tkobo

I know taking some time to actually have a clue about what your talking about is far less important than actually talking ,at least to you.

BUT ill help you out some.Look back to sept in the forums of RV, or heck just do a search for tkobo on those forums.

Or wait, can you now that youve been banned ? I quess not.

Aw well.

"But wait officer ! You cant arrest for me stealing that bubblegum ! You didnt arrest the other 400 people who also stole the gum!"

See, something even the roma devs seem to be able to grasp, is that they dont have to punish everyone to,or even to the same degree, to be right to punish anyone esle who broke the rules.

Their not punishing enough other people, or even not punishing those other people enough, in no way means YOU shouldnt be punished.AND to the max possible.

But your not likely to eb able to grasp that, as it goes against "waht you want".And like you showed in the game, you put what "you want" about everything esle, including those pesky little rules you choose to ignore in your pursuit of "waht you want".

Its nice to be able to actually applaud the roma dev team for something. AND i firmly appluad them for banning you and the others.

Its a shame they didnt ban more.But maybe they are finally learning, that some people, paying customers or not, hurt your product more than the meager money they pay can ever counter.

And that those people need to be removed from the product.Like you were.

WELL DONE ROMA VICTOR DEV TEAM ! Its a good start.

 

 

 

Kyleran

Originally posted by genericname1

this is not ironic, this is lying to the players,  I don't care if one or two people think I got what I deserved, it's the way in wich I got it that annoys me...

promising leniency in that PM, wich over thirty people can confirm individually, then not being given it, as stated in the e-mail that around thirty people received, is not just.

Odd, you bemoan a lack of justice on the part of the developers, but I get the distinct impression that basically you lack any honor or integrity yourself.  You freely admit to exploiting a bug to your advantage, regardless of your reasoning for doing so, and are surprised when the dev's don't keep their promise.



I'm thinking your word isn't worth a whole lot either, so you really have no reason to hold them to a higher standard.



And I suspect  your story is biased in your favor and not really ringing true....

genericname1

yes, I can view the forums, even post in them, those posts were archived a while back, and can't be seen.EDIT: yes you can, my mistake. I know I was featured in a lot of post s then, but in all of the civil wars people were, this adds nothing to the accusation...



in what way have I been doing harm to the current population ingame in the last six months? can somebody who actually plays the game inform me of this?µ



surely giving away spears and bucklers and your own helms t newbs and training with them, teaching them skills etc is a bad thing!

Lordcrapalot

You exploited a bug in the game intentionally and dileberatly. That violates the term of use and thus you varants a ban. Its very straight forward. The excuse "every one else does it" doesnt work, and wont make it right to do. The other people who cheated will proberly be banned in due time. But if you have a problem with the game, either bring it to the devs attention or stop playing.

tkobo

Well get to it than.

I was able to finds my posts with no problem.

I was really amused at how in those posts you made yourself out to be a victim than also.Same old act i quess.

 Lets see a little list

1)Exploited the murders badge and showed others how

2)Exploited the item drop at death, and showed others how

3)Spawn camped new players, repeatedly

4)Used the hide inside trees exploit so people couldnt attack you(or at least were greatly hindered in doing so.SO much that the devs made fixing it a priority, when there were far more needed fixs for them to spend time on.)

5)Ghost exploit, again an item exploit

 

Those are just the ones i know of, and that any reasonable dev team would have banned your bunch for long ago.

But keep crying about how wrongly youve been treated.

By the way, love your "pettition".A whole what, 20 people signed it ? More than a few of which are among those of the 30ish punished.Im suprised you havent gotten at least 1 pettition entry for each player punished.And i ve really got to love the "anonomous" entries.

genericname1

Originally posted by tkobo


Well get to it than.
I was able to finds my poists with no problem.
I was really amused at how in those posts you made yourself out to be a victim than also.
 
Lets see a little list
1)Exploited the murders badge and showed others how
2)Exploited the item drop at death, and showed others how
3)Spawn camped new players, repeatedly
4)Used the hide inside trees exploit so people couldnt attack you(or at least were greatly hindered in doing so.SO much that the devs made fixing it a priority, when there were far more needed fixs for them to spend time on.)
5)Ghost exploit, again an item exploit
 
Those are just the ones i know of, and that any reasonable dev team would have banned your bunch for long ago.
But keep crying about how wrongly youve been treated.
By the way, love your "pettition".A whole what, 20 people signed it ? More than a few of which are among those of the 30ish punished.Im suprised you havent gotten at least 1 pettition entry for each player punished.And i ve really got to love the "anonomous" entries.


 

1. what? how do you exploit a murderer badge?



2. that was kruniac, me and ExZ reported that bug.



3. wich still happens to this day, and nobody has gotten banned for it yet.



4. common practice back then, wasn't deemed an exploit by the devs.



5. this indeed happened, in fact, it happened on two seperate occasions, a lot of people maxed their parry the first time round, no action was taken, also, on the first occasion I was on holiday, and had no access to the internet, I was highly annoyed about it at the time...





of those who signed it, excluding two of those permabanned, wich I do not count

10 people were punished for the bug, who also felt that this was harsh, when they themselves were punished, they felt that we should also be tempbanned...



half of the things you mention are incrrect, wrongly construed, and have absolutely nothing to do with it.



if the devs wanted to permaban me for those tings, they would've said so, they permabanned us for this incident only, as is said in that e-mail.

tkobo

Yup, same old act.

Disavow till caught, offer poor excuse after poor excuse when your are finally caught/called on something, and then make youself out to be a "victim" when people are considering punishing you, or actually  doing it.

 

Again WELL DONE ROMA VICTOR dev team. Your were 100% percent correct in banning these "players".Now do your game a favor and ban more, and do those skill roll backs you said "might " be coming for the ones you dont  ban.

You desperately need to clean out your "community" of players like the exploiter crying here.

 

wjrasmussen

Originally posted by genericname1

because that's not the point of this thread zakke, the point is that you lot were saying we were banned because we griefed, when we were banned for exploiting the same thing everyone did, I have contacted the RV devs, and had little or no reply, this petition was started to  at least get some kind of reply...





http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RVpetition/



now I do't care about the reasons tkobo stated for me being banned and what I should've been banned for, the fact is that nearly every guild/legion/warband has been guilty of these things, just because, as a barbarian I killed some newbs, etc, wich a barbarian is perfectly entitled to do, doesn't mean I should get banned, take the CV incident, wich most people agree killed erring, not the shoe banditry.

did they get banned? no, did we get banned for that? again , no...



this is not ironic, this is lying to the players,  I don't care if one or two people think I got what I deserved, it's the way in wich I got it that annoys me...

promising leniency in that PM, wich over thirty people can confirm individually, then not being given it, as stated in the e-mail that around thirty people received, is not just.



what exactly have I done in the last six months that is so bad tkobo, tell me, do you even play? have you EVER played? if you want to accuse people of stuff, at least get your facts straight, the devs do not ban people for offences they commited over half a year ago. what I did then is of no consequence.

So you admit to using an exploit. It doesn't matter if anyone else has done that BTW. 

Now you want to use people for a petition for your little pet issue.  You think that people here are tools?  Stop exploiting games and people.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Samuraisword

How can they afford to ban people when they only have 50 active players?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Samuraisword

Originally posted by papacapjack

Originally posted by Samuraisword

How can they afford to ban people when they only have 50 active players?

Most likely because thiers no monthly fee, so they targeted thoose that verm least (I think I vermed like a pound a year ago and thats it), they probally figure it will save money.

but this isnt a mmo, the average counterstrike server holds a larger  more active playerbase.

Ah ok, that makes sense. Get rid of the ones that don't feed their coffers by purchasing ingame coin via their item shop designed revenue system. For a moment I was gonna give RedBedlam credit for being principled.

Zakke87

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Ah ok, that makes sense. Get rid of the ones that don't feed their coffers by purchasing ingame coin via their item shop designed revenue system. For a moment I was gonna give RedBedlam credit for being principled.

It is slightly amusing to see how you swallow the first bait you see.



Of course RB is banning their playerbase to save money! It has nothing to do with exploits or onything like that, oh no, it's all about the money. In the end their plan is to only have Augir playing the game.

tkobo

The really funny thing is, if they had banned some of the now crying exploiters sooner, they might have more players actually playing now.

First night i played this game, i spent hours watching the one crying the most here and his buddies,tell each other how to exploit certain game mechanics AND spawn camp at least 4 new players.Repeadily. Two of those players, that i know of, said they had chosen to not play the game becuase of their experiences with some of  these now crying exploiters and the spawn camping.

Now that was just a few hours in one night.This went of for over a week,that i know of.Imagine how many new players walked away because these "people" couldnt behave .The official forums had more than a few posts telling the devs exactly who and what was happening, but the devs turned a blind eye then.

This is by far the best step the roma victor devs have taken to trying to get their game to actually grow beyond a small bunch of badly behaved exploiters.

Well done Roma Victor Devs.