this is so played out. the subject is only for the ones with no lives and nothing better to do then bitch and complain about something so old. please go out and get laid or something and stop crying.
what sort of person, exactly, will ignore the fact that the game developers actively cheat to help their alliances win ingame, repeatedly, and don't really even deny it anymore, they just make excuses or ignore the issue. hmm?
what would we label that sort of person as?
lacking good judgment? incapable of ordinary reasoning? uneducated? lacking knowledge?
all of these "things" can be fixed by an incredibly simple evaluation of the facts at hand, instead of blind fanboi'ism and fervent desire to ignore truth.
a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
idiot
c.1300, "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning," from O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill," lit. "private
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
this is so played out. the subject is only for the ones with no lives and nothing better to do then bitch and complain about something so old. please go out and get laid or something and stop crying.
what sort of person, exactly, will ignore the fact that the game developers actively cheat to help their alliances win ingame, repeatedly, and don't really even deny it anymore, they just make excuses or ignore the issue. hmm?
what would we label that sort of person as?
lacking good judgment? incapable of ordinary reasoning? uneducated? lacking knowledge?
all of these "things" can be fixed by an incredibly simple evaluation of the facts at hand, instead of blind fanboi'ism and fervent desire to ignore truth.
a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
idiot
c.1300, "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning," from O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill," lit. "private
This whole post just proves my point some people need to get a life.
You know, back before this all happened, I was critical of CCP, EVE, BOD, and the hype machine. I was, because it didn't take a forum junkie to see that the game, the company, the staff, and the players were not these paragons of MMORPG virtue that were being billed around here. I mean, there was a time around here when people would stand up for EVE and CCP in solidarity against anybody who would say anything remotely resembling a criticism. It got to the point where the pedastal we placed EVE upon started to look absurd to anybody with any remote semblance of objectivity (best PvE anyone?).
That being said, I really don't think that EVE deserves to be written off by anyone, just because of corruption and general nastiness. People can decide that for themselves at this point, when before they couldn't. EVE is still EVE, and it hasn't impacted my enjoyment so much, since I don't participate in alliance play, I don't gab on TS/vent, and I don't get EON. Probably never will, and as long as that's fine for me, I'll be in EVE. You never fail to be satisfied when your expectations are modest. I don't expect much from EVE, and so its hard for EVE to disappoint me.
That doesn't say that it isn't disappointing to some, and I feel for them. I haven't seen such an emotional letdown for so many gamers since the NGE. In fact, many of the folks who protested the loudest in those initial threads on EVE-O were ex-SWG players, who thought CCP was different, that EVE was different, and that the community was different. This was a company who claimed that they put the players first, this was a game that claimed it wasn't governed by the marketing department, and this was a community that wasn't controlled by public relations.
It took an incident like this one to really open our eyes as EVE players, just like we needed our eyes opened as SWG players. Sometimes love makes us blind to the things that are obvious, and make us see the object of our love in the best light, which may not be the most accurate light. In retrospect, we should have seen the signs. They were all around, just like what LeJohn said. We didn't want to see them...we couldn't see them.
Some of us still don't see, and will never admit that CCP and EVE is a development house and an MMORPG just like any other, with the same capacity for corruption, neglect, poor CS, censorship, and favoritism as any other game. Not worse, but just the same. Did we really think that CCP and EVE would be different? We hoped they would, and I must admit that CCP with all its viral marketing and gurrella marketing mojo fed on this hope. But when push came to shove, they acted like all the others. Permabans. Coverups. Denials. Neglect. Double standards.
Its not right, but whoever said the P2P MMO business is right? Its the way business is done, and the way this industry survives. Do we think the nature of P2Pchanges between San Diego and Reykjavik? We love the games in spite of themselves, not because of them, and this is the same whether we are talking about SOE, or CCP.
Unlike SOE though, CCP has even less of a reason to want to fix things. Yes, SOE is in it for the money, and make no bones about that fact. They make games for the money, create changes for the money, and are in this business to keep on getting money. While that may compromise the integrity of the game at some level, I can safely say that any sort of corruption of the type we see here can do nothing but hurt the bottom line.
The problem is that CCP was never about the bottom line. From the earliest interviews, CCP made it clear that they design games for themselves and their friends to enjoy first and foremost, with financial success and popular satisfaction a second priority. This sort of philosophy toward P2P management not only is based around bias as an operating principle, it encourages bias.
They even tell you on the company page that when you sign on to a CCP game, you will not be treated equally as equally paying consumers. It says, "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." They do this by, "establishing and nurturing a trust relationship with customers." Right there they tell you that this is a game and a company that is not in the business of giving you what you pay for. Its a business that is out to establish relationships that go beyond what is considered appropriate. So given this, it should come as no suprise that the staff is going to favor BOB, and their other friends to the exclusion of those who are just consumers. You really don't think that they want to "cooperate on a deeper level" with you, do you? You don't think they want to establish and nurture a "trust relationship" with you, do you? Of course not, because its impossible to be friends with 85,000 subscribers.
I'm never going to be anything but just a simple credit card number to CCP, because even if I wanted to be more than that, its not up to me to be considered that way by CCP. That's alright, because that's how SOE, NCSoft, and everyone else treats me; and to be quite frank, I'm fine with that. If I wanted to have a "deeper level" interaction with the staff, or "nurture a trust relationship," I can go to a private server game, or a greyshard.
Of course, greyshards are free, and the staff there makes no bones about the fact that its their game, and they can take the basketball away if you don't like it. I can only hope that CCP doesn't decide to take their basketball away when they are forced to treat mere "credit card numbers" like you and I as their "friends," and treat those who are their "friends" that they have to be treated like just another "credit card number."
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
beatnik59, I don't think they are that forthright about cheating their customers, or the majority of their customers...there is a reason why they are trying to keep this on the down low and pretend its only isolated cases....
they are ruling their forums with an iron hand......say the wrong thing on them and you are deleted, sometimes even banned completely...
CCP is worse than SOE....
what we need is pin a thread in one place CCP cheating thread....so anyone who wants to talk about it can, and it stays isolated to one place instead of permeating every discussion people wanna talk about....
========================== The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
No doubt they are trying to keep it down, blackcat35. Yet CCP isn't going to keep down their friendship with the few. As Hellmar's blog states, "The developers of this company will always play the games that they build here. Without being fully immersed in the player experience, perspective, and community, it is impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency."
This sort of arrogant and defiant statement is what you'd expect from a CCP dev. We have to understand though what he's asking for, and why it makes no sense from a design standpoint to justify what he's trying to justify (this whole 'chummy chummy' relationship with paid customers). He doesn't just want him and his staff to play the games they build. He wants to gab on TS and vent, conspire, metagame, and establish friendships with paid customers. He wants them to be part of self-interested private gaming clubs, pursuing private gaming club ends, and says that if they cannot do that, it is "impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency."
Besides the obvious examples of highly successful and enjoyable online worlds that do not encourage this sort of 'chummy chummy' attitude with select leaders of uberguilds, the developers have far better tools to observe everything they need to observe without subjecting the game to bias. The argument from a design standpoint just falls flat, especially considering what it costs in terms of the integrity of the game. But to be honest, they don't stand by this because they think it makes EVE better. They stand by it because as I said previously, making the game enjoyable for paid subscribers was never as important to these people as making a game that they could enjoy playing with their friends. If the two coincide, that's the ideal; but CCP isn't going to quit having fun their own way just because its better for business, and better for the line subscribers. Its the CCP way, and its not going to change simply because this got exposed.
Depending on how this war shakes out, this whole expose could be the best thing or worst thing that happened to EVE. It will be bad for EVE if BoB wins, because even if the fix was never in for BoB to win, there's no way we could ever assume that BoB wasn't able to win without their Dev connections. Crown Molle Amarr emperor, because the game's integrity will have burned its last chance to redeem itself.
If the war ends and everyone has a good time giving BoB some lumps, then I think this could be good for EVE, because the EVEangelists will have to think twice before unconditionally accepting whatever comes out of Iceland as gospel, feeling that CCP can do no wrong. We'll have players actually keeping development on track, and focused; watcdoging what the devs do and say with a much more critical eye.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
the thing is, that staff has been cheating in bod's favor the entire war pretty much. bits and pieces have been documented here and there already. it's just incredibly sad. and don't worry about titan's and ddds getting fixed, they will, shortly after bod wins the war.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
its just in general. all this bad talk and things wont affect a new player at all. not even a old player. in EVE universe its small thing that happens far away and dont affect you at all. Right?
if i were at a certain battle where BOD lost that shipyard, and (for the first time ever) ccp arbitrarily decided to impose an artificial player limit on the system, keeping out a good 60% of the invading force; then yes, it affected me directly and adversely.
if i were in competition with people who were just given t2 bpos and/or titans, then yes, it affected me.
if i were in any battle in the game where gms hung out and mysteriously a bod-type group went from getting their asses handed to them, to (when the gm was noticed) winning the battle and ended up winning said battle, then yes, it affected me.
if i were just some random player (of the 30,000 or so), and favoritism was given to a certain 0.0 organization repeatedly (which consists of around 5k people, fully 1/6th of the player population) and quite a number of times things just "fell" their way because staff was cheating, then yes, whether i realize it or not, direct, and repeated, cheating in favor of 1/6th of the population will affect the other 5/6ths of the population, especially when said population is THIS small and out of that 30k or so, you have to take into account how many at any time are trial accounts and how many are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th accounts for each person. so honestly, i think the number of players COULD be a tad less than 30k total people.
if i have a bunch of 10/10 plexes which me and my friends can run constantly, because they spawn once an hour, instead of every 24 hours; then that definitely has an effect on the entire server population. that's billions (if not trillions) of isk worth of goodies getting added into a certain group's pockets. when you add rigged competitions which get them even more uber gear...
i don't like guerilla marketing, nor do i like goldfish viral marketing. i think what's been blown out of proportion is the fact that the cheating has gone on so long and in so many ways, that no one has the stamina to sit there and recall and document all the times it's happened and it's become an accepted part of the game.
as long as you're just an average joe nobody, you won't feel the affect, because you just don't realize what is going on, or why certain things dropped way low in price, or became high demand items.
like the one guy said, it's a macro-economics thing. you don't have to believe in water; but, if you step into the ocean, you WILL get wet.
Macroeconomics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Macroeconomics is a branch of economics that deals with the performance, structure, and behavior of the economy as a whole
You see, you have no clue but still you rant on about things you have obviously no clue about.
The Battle for the BoB capital Ship Yard had a maximum of 590 or so people in local. I should know because I was there. Now we know that CCP put the limit to 700 users, but that cap was never reached, so it is a moot point.
The hardware couldn't handle the mass of players. Also, please let me tell you that BoB and allies were waiting outside F-T with huge parts of the fleet. Would they have done that if they had known that there was a Limit on the system local?
When I jumped into F-T, it took me 20 minutes to load, and then another 30 minutes to jump to the hostile Cap fleet and activate my guns. I think I got onto about 5 Dread Killmails.
Many Coalition members reported they logged out and back in... well, that was their first and last mistake in that battle.
And to finally stop your stupid argument please just remember JV1V. The LV baby Titan. I was there too, but on the losing side... hmmm. Where were the Devs then? huh? Thats right, that theory of yours is totally bullshit.
So please don't talk if you have no idea what actually happened. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings. If EvE is too tough for you go back to empire or quit, and stop caring on forums about it.
so let me get this straight, anyone who fights BOD will lose stuff ,but BOD gets replacement from the DEV's.....This is rather shocking....
And also this is simply not true. It's hate propaganda. EvE is all about the propaganda. It's a powerful tool and used alot in EvE. No other game has conspiracy theories like this one, and many people take it way too serious.
You need to make your own decision. try it, if you like it stay, if you don't leave.
Sure the subject has been beaten to death, but to act as though it never happened or is continueing to happen is equally absurd. CCP has a track record to prove the case/cases against them and hasn't shown any real definitive strides toward preventing any future occurances. Its hardly a tinfoil hat issue but more as in some respondants cases a matter of pulling your heads out of the sand or where ever else they've been buried and admitting theres a problem. When that day comes to pass then maybe you'll stop seeing large numbers of finger pointing threads. Eve has become a catbox rather than a sandbox enviroment and will remain so until they do the right thing and apply the rules equally accross the board. To continue to do otherwise just justifies the continueing rant threads and doesn't give the Eve community much to stand on for the high ground.
QFT.
The issue for most of the angered players is not the cheating per se. The issue is how CCP reacted to that cheating and its exposure. CCP has done nothing more than a token PR effort and have been ignoring the issue in the hope that it just goes away.
Also, the whole Dev cheating incident only came to light in February. That's only three months ago. That's a long time?!
The hardware couldn't handle the mass of players. Also, please let me tell you that BoB and allies were waiting outside F-T with huge parts of the fleet. Would they have done that if they had known that there was a Limit on the system local?
To preface, I have nothing against BoB. I was even a member of a pet corp for a bit (huge mistake, but not BoB's fault). I'm also not a fan of BoB either.
Just becuase BoB had ships outside of the system does not mean that BoB did not know of the limit. If fact, if they knew of the limit the battle would have looked exactly the same. BoB would have put enough ships in the system in order to give themselves a clear advantage. That would have been the best strategic move to make and I would expect BoB to know that. You are guarantted to waste a large number of enemy capital ships.
However, just because it happened that way does not mean that BoB had the information. If they didn't have the information the battle would have looked the same. Both sides had support fleets in another system ready to jump in.
The issue is that CCP screwed up again. There were a number of ways that they could have handled this issue better. For one, they've known about the issue with node crashes for quite a while now. More than long enough to find a solution to the problem.
so let me get this straight, anyone who fights BOD will lose stuff ,but BOD gets replacement from the DEV's.....This is rather shocking....
And also this is simply not true. It's hate propaganda. EvE is all about the propaganda. It's a powerful tool and used alot in EvE. No other game has conspiracy theories like this one, and many people take it way too serious.
You need to make your own decision. try it, if you like it stay, if you don't leave.
yes, the propaganda like there has never been a player/ship cap set on a 0.0 system during any BOD/LV/ASCN/whateverr fight until the one we referenced. oh wait, there never was. there was only a limit put on in a bod cap shipyard with a fetal titan in it.
so people gave up losing entire fleets to try to stop the spawn of more bod titans, because they'd lose more than they gained from more artificial limits being imposed so that bod would be able to "legally" spawn more titans.
truth does not equal a conspiracy theory. but, blinders and lack of understanding make a lot of truth seem un-truth-ish, even when ccp staff own up to a number of cheats. but, whatever. it's a game and as soon as they stop letting you buy GTCs with isk, you'll see a whole lot of non-bod'ers quit. hell, by that time, we might all be part of bod, and then i'm sure we'd be able to still purchase gtcs with isk, if not just get our accounts handed to us freely.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The coalition had much more followers in its prime. They could have easily split their forces in 3 and attacked at multiple places simultaneous. That would have reduced Blob Sizes. In reality they knew that they don't have the quality to pull that off, so they went with quantity, well knowing that the hardwar would probably fail.
BTW, JV1V had less people in it than F-T. And that did not have a hardcap (as far as we know). And still the system broke down under the mass of people. So basically that cap really means nothing, because it wouldn't have let in more people than it can handle anyway. The cap in F-T was never reached. the hardware failed before the cap was reached.
Besides that, remember that the capital yard WAS destroyed. If there had been a titan in it, it would have been a success for the coalition and no one would have cried as much as they cry now. False information has led to this debacle, and it might not even have happened if the Coalition intel were any better.
As far as I know, you cannot prove what was or wasn't destroyed when a POS goes down...
Because band of brother is supported by the Dev's (BOD), its not hard to imagine that whatever was destroyed when the POS went down was replaced with Dev involvement (yea, obviously that was a bug because based on the numbers the coalition shouldn't of been able to take out the POS)....
If your cheating, you definitely don't want people talking about it openly (you try on their forums your banned). You have to cheat where its not so obvious, so they don't really cheat on ship fighting, but replacements, yep, they have unlimited replacements....unlimited isk effectively...
The fact that the coalition which has more numbers and should have greater experience, etc, cannot destroy band of dev's kind of indicates the cheating that is going on behind the scenes....
========================== The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
Comments
what sort of person, exactly, will ignore the fact that the game developers actively cheat to help their alliances win ingame, repeatedly, and don't really even deny it anymore, they just make excuses or ignore the issue. hmm?
what would we label that sort of person as?
lacking good judgment? incapable of ordinary reasoning? uneducated? lacking knowledge?
all of these "things" can be fixed by an incredibly simple evaluation of the facts at hand, instead of blind fanboi'ism and fervent desire to ignore truth.
ig·no·rant
/??g
n?r
?nt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-ner-uh
nt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
mo·ron
/?m?r
?n, ?mo?r-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mawr-on, mohr-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
idiot
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
what sort of person, exactly, will ignore the fact that the game developers actively cheat to help their alliances win ingame, repeatedly, and don't really even deny it anymore, they just make excuses or ignore the issue. hmm?
what would we label that sort of person as?
lacking good judgment? incapable of ordinary reasoning? uneducated? lacking knowledge?
all of these "things" can be fixed by an incredibly simple evaluation of the facts at hand, instead of blind fanboi'ism and fervent desire to ignore truth.
ig·no·rant
/??g
n?r
?nt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-ner-uh
nt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
mo·ron
/?m?r
?n, ?mo?r-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mawr-on, mohr-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
idiot
This whole post just proves my point some people need to get a life.You know, back before this all happened, I was critical of CCP, EVE, BOD, and the hype machine. I was, because it didn't take a forum junkie to see that the game, the company, the staff, and the players were not these paragons of MMORPG virtue that were being billed around here. I mean, there was a time around here when people would stand up for EVE and CCP in solidarity against anybody who would say anything remotely resembling a criticism. It got to the point where the pedastal we placed EVE upon started to look absurd to anybody with any remote semblance of objectivity (best PvE anyone?).
That being said, I really don't think that EVE deserves to be written off by anyone, just because of corruption and general nastiness. People can decide that for themselves at this point, when before they couldn't. EVE is still EVE, and it hasn't impacted my enjoyment so much, since I don't participate in alliance play, I don't gab on TS/vent, and I don't get EON. Probably never will, and as long as that's fine for me, I'll be in EVE. You never fail to be satisfied when your expectations are modest. I don't expect much from EVE, and so its hard for EVE to disappoint me.
That doesn't say that it isn't disappointing to some, and I feel for them. I haven't seen such an emotional letdown for so many gamers since the NGE. In fact, many of the folks who protested the loudest in those initial threads on EVE-O were ex-SWG players, who thought CCP was different, that EVE was different, and that the community was different. This was a company who claimed that they put the players first, this was a game that claimed it wasn't governed by the marketing department, and this was a community that wasn't controlled by public relations.
It took an incident like this one to really open our eyes as EVE players, just like we needed our eyes opened as SWG players. Sometimes love makes us blind to the things that are obvious, and make us see the object of our love in the best light, which may not be the most accurate light. In retrospect, we should have seen the signs. They were all around, just like what LeJohn said. We didn't want to see them...we couldn't see them.
Some of us still don't see, and will never admit that CCP and EVE is a development house and an MMORPG just like any other, with the same capacity for corruption, neglect, poor CS, censorship, and favoritism as any other game. Not worse, but just the same. Did we really think that CCP and EVE would be different? We hoped they would, and I must admit that CCP with all its viral marketing and gurrella marketing mojo fed on this hope. But when push came to shove, they acted like all the others. Permabans. Coverups. Denials. Neglect. Double standards.
Its not right, but whoever said the P2P MMO business is right? Its the way business is done, and the way this industry survives. Do we think the nature of P2Pchanges between San Diego and Reykjavik? We love the games in spite of themselves, not because of them, and this is the same whether we are talking about SOE, or CCP.
Unlike SOE though, CCP has even less of a reason to want to fix things. Yes, SOE is in it for the money, and make no bones about that fact. They make games for the money, create changes for the money, and are in this business to keep on getting money. While that may compromise the integrity of the game at some level, I can safely say that any sort of corruption of the type we see here can do nothing but hurt the bottom line.
The problem is that CCP was never about the bottom line. From the earliest interviews, CCP made it clear that they design games for themselves and their friends to enjoy first and foremost, with financial success and popular satisfaction a second priority. This sort of philosophy toward P2P management not only is based around bias as an operating principle, it encourages bias.
They even tell you on the company page that when you sign on to a CCP game, you will not be treated equally as equally paying consumers. It says, "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." They do this by, "establishing and nurturing a trust relationship with customers." Right there they tell you that this is a game and a company that is not in the business of giving you what you pay for. Its a business that is out to establish relationships that go beyond what is considered appropriate. So given this, it should come as no suprise that the staff is going to favor BOB, and their other friends to the exclusion of those who are just consumers. You really don't think that they want to "cooperate on a deeper level" with you, do you? You don't think they want to establish and nurture a "trust relationship" with you, do you? Of course not, because its impossible to be friends with 85,000 subscribers.
I'm never going to be anything but just a simple credit card number to CCP, because even if I wanted to be more than that, its not up to me to be considered that way by CCP. That's alright, because that's how SOE, NCSoft, and everyone else treats me; and to be quite frank, I'm fine with that. If I wanted to have a "deeper level" interaction with the staff, or "nurture a trust relationship," I can go to a private server game, or a greyshard.
Of course, greyshards are free, and the staff there makes no bones about the fact that its their game, and they can take the basketball away if you don't like it. I can only hope that CCP doesn't decide to take their basketball away when they are forced to treat mere "credit card numbers" like you and I as their "friends," and treat those who are their "friends" that they have to be treated like just another "credit card number."
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
beatnik59, I don't think they are that forthright about cheating their customers, or the majority of their customers...there is a reason why they are trying to keep this on the down low and pretend its only isolated cases....
they are ruling their forums with an iron hand......say the wrong thing on them and you are deleted, sometimes even banned completely...
CCP is worse than SOE....
what we need is pin a thread in one place CCP cheating thread....so anyone who wants to talk about it can, and it stays isolated to one place instead of permeating every discussion people wanna talk about....
==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
No doubt they are trying to keep it down, blackcat35. Yet CCP isn't going to keep down their friendship with the few. As Hellmar's blog states, "The developers of this company will always play the games that they build here. Without being fully immersed in the player experience, perspective, and community, it is impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency."
This sort of arrogant and defiant statement is what you'd expect from a CCP dev. We have to understand though what he's asking for, and why it makes no sense from a design standpoint to justify what he's trying to justify (this whole 'chummy chummy' relationship with paid customers). He doesn't just want him and his staff to play the games they build. He wants to gab on TS and vent, conspire, metagame, and establish friendships with paid customers. He wants them to be part of self-interested private gaming clubs, pursuing private gaming club ends, and says that if they cannot do that, it is "impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency."
Besides the obvious examples of highly successful and enjoyable online worlds that do not encourage this sort of 'chummy chummy' attitude with select leaders of uberguilds, the developers have far better tools to observe everything they need to observe without subjecting the game to bias. The argument from a design standpoint just falls flat, especially considering what it costs in terms of the integrity of the game. But to be honest, they don't stand by this because they think it makes EVE better. They stand by it because as I said previously, making the game enjoyable for paid subscribers was never as important to these people as making a game that they could enjoy playing with their friends. If the two coincide, that's the ideal; but CCP isn't going to quit having fun their own way just because its better for business, and better for the line subscribers. Its the CCP way, and its not going to change simply because this got exposed.
Depending on how this war shakes out, this whole expose could be the best thing or worst thing that happened to EVE. It will be bad for EVE if BoB wins, because even if the fix was never in for BoB to win, there's no way we could ever assume that BoB wasn't able to win without their Dev connections. Crown Molle Amarr emperor, because the game's integrity will have burned its last chance to redeem itself.
If the war ends and everyone has a good time giving BoB some lumps, then I think this could be good for EVE, because the EVEangelists will have to think twice before unconditionally accepting whatever comes out of Iceland as gospel, feeling that CCP can do no wrong. We'll have players actually keeping development on track, and focused; watcdoging what the devs do and say with a much more critical eye.
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
if i were in competition with people who were just given t2 bpos and/or titans, then yes, it affected me.
if i were in any battle in the game where gms hung out and mysteriously a bod-type group went from getting their asses handed to them, to (when the gm was noticed) winning the battle and ended up winning said battle, then yes, it affected me.
if i were just some random player (of the 30,000 or so), and favoritism was given to a certain 0.0 organization repeatedly (which consists of around 5k people, fully 1/6th of the player population) and quite a number of times things just "fell" their way because staff was cheating, then yes, whether i realize it or not, direct, and repeated, cheating in favor of 1/6th of the population will affect the other 5/6ths of the population, especially when said population is THIS small and out of that 30k or so, you have to take into account how many at any time are trial accounts and how many are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th accounts for each person. so honestly, i think the number of players COULD be a tad less than 30k total people.
if i have a bunch of 10/10 plexes which me and my friends can run constantly, because they spawn once an hour, instead of every 24 hours; then that definitely has an effect on the entire server population. that's billions (if not trillions) of isk worth of goodies getting added into a certain group's pockets. when you add rigged competitions which get them even more uber gear...
i don't like guerilla marketing, nor do i like goldfish viral marketing. i think what's been blown out of proportion is the fact that the cheating has gone on so long and in so many ways, that no one has the stamina to sit there and recall and document all the times it's happened and it's become an accepted part of the game.
as long as you're just an average joe nobody, you won't feel the affect, because you just don't realize what is going on, or why certain things dropped way low in price, or became high demand items.
like the one guy said, it's a macro-economics thing. you don't have to believe in water; but, if you step into the ocean, you WILL get wet.
Macroeconomics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Macroeconomics is a branch of economics that deals with the performance, structure, and behavior of the economy as a whole
You see, you have no clue but still you rant on about things you have obviously no clue about.
The Battle for the BoB capital Ship Yard had a maximum of 590 or so people in local. I should know because I was there. Now we know that CCP put the limit to 700 users, but that cap was never reached, so it is a moot point.
The hardware couldn't handle the mass of players. Also, please let me tell you that BoB and allies were waiting outside F-T with huge parts of the fleet. Would they have done that if they had known that there was a Limit on the system local?
When I jumped into F-T, it took me 20 minutes to load, and then another 30 minutes to jump to the hostile Cap fleet and activate my guns. I think I got onto about 5 Dread Killmails.
Many Coalition members reported they logged out and back in... well, that was their first and last mistake in that battle.
And to finally stop your stupid argument please just remember JV1V. The LV baby Titan. I was there too, but on the losing side... hmmm. Where were the Devs then? huh? Thats right, that theory of yours is totally bullshit.
So please don't talk if you have no idea what actually happened. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings. If EvE is too tough for you go back to empire or quit, and stop caring on forums about it.
You need to make your own decision. try it, if you like it stay, if you don't leave.
The issue for most of the angered players is not the cheating per se. The issue is how CCP reacted to that cheating and its exposure. CCP has done nothing more than a token PR effort and have been ignoring the issue in the hope that it just goes away.
Also, the whole Dev cheating incident only came to light in February. That's only three months ago. That's a long time?!
Just becuase BoB had ships outside of the system does not mean that BoB did not know of the limit. If fact, if they knew of the limit the battle would have looked exactly the same. BoB would have put enough ships in the system in order to give themselves a clear advantage. That would have been the best strategic move to make and I would expect BoB to know that. You are guarantted to waste a large number of enemy capital ships.
However, just because it happened that way does not mean that BoB had the information. If they didn't have the information the battle would have looked the same. Both sides had support fleets in another system ready to jump in.
The issue is that CCP screwed up again. There were a number of ways that they could have handled this issue better. For one, they've known about the issue with node crashes for quite a while now. More than long enough to find a solution to the problem.
You need to make your own decision. try it, if you like it stay, if you don't leave.
yes, the propaganda like there has never been a player/ship cap set on a 0.0 system during any BOD/LV/ASCN/whateverr fight until the one we referenced. oh wait, there never was. there was only a limit put on in a bod cap shipyard with a fetal titan in it.
so people gave up losing entire fleets to try to stop the spawn of more bod titans, because they'd lose more than they gained from more artificial limits being imposed so that bod would be able to "legally" spawn more titans.
truth does not equal a conspiracy theory. but, blinders and lack of understanding make a lot of truth seem un-truth-ish, even when ccp staff own up to a number of cheats. but, whatever. it's a game and as soon as they stop letting you buy GTCs with isk, you'll see a whole lot of non-bod'ers quit. hell, by that time, we might all be part of bod, and then i'm sure we'd be able to still purchase gtcs with isk, if not just get our accounts handed to us freely.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
BTW, JV1V had less people in it than F-T. And that did not have a hardcap (as far as we know). And still the system broke down under the mass of people. So basically that cap really means nothing, because it wouldn't have let in more people than it can handle anyway. The cap in F-T was never reached. the hardware failed before the cap was reached.
Besides that, remember that the capital yard WAS destroyed. If there had been a titan in it, it would have been a success for the coalition and no one would have cried as much as they cry now. False information has led to this debacle, and it might not even have happened if the Coalition intel were any better.
As far as I know, you cannot prove what was or wasn't destroyed when a POS goes down...
Because band of brother is supported by the Dev's (BOD), its not hard to imagine that whatever was destroyed when the POS went down was replaced with Dev involvement (yea, obviously that was a bug because based on the numbers the coalition shouldn't of been able to take out the POS)....
If your cheating, you definitely don't want people talking about it openly (you try on their forums your banned). You have to cheat where its not so obvious, so they don't really cheat on ship fighting, but replacements, yep, they have unlimited replacements....unlimited isk effectively...
The fact that the coalition which has more numbers and should have greater experience, etc, cannot destroy band of dev's kind of indicates the cheating that is going on behind the scenes....
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.