i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community
i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again.
sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs?
sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO?
I - think - not
so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out
you all complain about low populations keeping you away
why is it low populations i wonder
because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago
What did NGE do? For once, it remade the combat system. Sure, not every detail of the NGE was right. But what did we have before? My pikeman had almost 3 dozens of attacks. 3-4 attacks to the legs, 3-4 to the head - it was a HUGE assortment of attacks, but if we are honest: in real combat we ALL just made button bashing. The entire complexity was more or less superficial, because in the hectic of RT combat it doesnt really matter. I never saw anyone who did not just mash all the buttons. They had really little relevance. It is a myth. Sure, you used some special abilites once and then. But in real, most were quite a pointless complexity.
I didn't 'just mash all the buttons' I only ever used adverage armour and weapons and could beat all but 1 jedi on my server(not using any dots either) with multiple templates, you think I could of done that by button bashing? People who complain about the combat system pre-cu are the ones who couldn't learn to use it. The combat system pre-cu was perfect, it was the overpowered armour and Dot attacks that needed changing nothing else. In pre-cu you knew who people were and feared certain people because you knew from previous fights they understood the game. It was the button bashers who I would go and fight 10v1 at their own city and win.
Please tell me how great the NGE combat system is now and explain what is so great, besides those awsome attacks that just stop my legs working or make me run 80% slower for a few seconds.................lol uberness
I played NGE about 3 month after it came out, got my level 80 elder jedi on, went to restuss for the first time ever and managed to win about 7 out of 10 fights by just bashing 3 skills and everyone was level 90 and I had never played nge b4 lol!!!
Seriously saying all you had to do pre-cu was button bash is like saying all you need to-do in counter-strike is spray with your crosshair over the enemy.
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder Um because the game just plain sucks now maybe... because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago Wonder why we are missing..hmmm..Could be the fact we Hate the whole combat engine,lack of deversity,everything Raph removed..We vanished for the same reasons NGE vets will..SOE's total lack of having a clue about anything.. COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU Because its so Lonely Now!!!Um nope every free trial i get i log in and well log right back out..Doesnt take long to see its just not for me..
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU
$OE proved flat out they didn't when they pushed the nge.
How does it feel to pay to betatest?
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I think what kills me most about this game is that its taken this long to get it to what they must be calling a semi finished state. And things still havent changed. Its stil empty. You would figure someone out there would finally just say okay... we failed. Lets start over or scrap the whole thing. Yet, they still keep beating that dead horse....
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU
and see this is the typical nge player attitude. try and blame the victim. you should study criminal law.
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. Sorry... I rather not waste any more time with a company that is as unethical, in their business actions, as SOE is.
sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? True. SOE seems to have a worse track record with bugs than most other mmorpg companies. The only one I can think of, off the top of my head, which is just as bad as SOE when it comes to clearing up bugs, is Mythic with DAoC. But, that's just from my experience (3 years in DAoC and over 1 year in SWG)
sure there is still the much detested class system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I fixed that for you. The profession system is what we experienced pre-CU (skill-based professions). NGE has a class-based system, which is totally opposite.
I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out As I stated above, I don't want to waste any more of my time with SOE.
you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU However, it is not us that SOE was aiming for when they created NGE. It was the WoW fanboi's and console gamers. Hence, they alienated majority of the vets in the process. Ironic, isn't it... just shows that SOE needs us now, after they already alienated the majority of us.
haha so true. i am amazed you managed to post so fast i would expect many of the fanboys from both (lets call em..."factions" of SWG) factions would have been typing so fast that their fingers would have bled.
a big thumbs up to you for posting so fast
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU
It's not about the game, it's about the trust.
SOE broke it all when they messed up SWG. It was no longer the same game people subscribed in first place. Once trust is lost, you can't get it back. Sorry.
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again. Sorry... I rather not waste any more time with a company that is as unethical, in their business actions, as SOE is.
sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs? True. SOE seems to have a worse track record with bugs than most other mmorpg companies. The only one I can think of, off the top of my head, which is just as bad as SOE when it comes to clearing up bugs, is Mythic with DAoC. But, that's just from my experience (3 years in DAoC and over 1 year in SWG)
sure there is still the much detested class system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO? I fixed that for you. The profession system is what we experienced pre-CU (skill-based professions). NGE has a class-based system, which is totally opposite.
I - think - not so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out As I stated above, I don't want to waste any more of my time with SOE.
you all complain about low populations keeping you away why is it low populations i wonder because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU However, it is not us that SOE was aiming for when they created NGE. It was the WoW fanboi's and console gamers. Wasn't aimed at this console gamer. I played SWG pre-CU. I've played CU and NGE. Wouldn't buy that piece o' crap for any of my consoles. Might have been tempted to get a 4th account or move one of my accounts to console if pre-CU had gone console. Hence, they alienated majority of the vets in the process. Ironic, isn't it... just shows that SOE needs us now, after they already alienated the majority of us.
I didn't mind the NGE combat system. In fact, I supported more of an action packed FPS style MMO. However, the dumbing down of every profession is what ended it for me. Also, much of WoW's succes was due to it's insane following derived from older Blizzard games such as Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo I & II. They are known for good solid performance. Most people who started their multiplayer gaming careers began with these three. Shoot, WoW can also run on a PIII. lol
I absolutely agree with your entire post and the idea you state.
I am a programmer/game designer from the days when 'text' online MMO's existed (Yes! TEXT!) They were called MUDs... but thats another story..
In laymans terms I will explain what NGE did - and why it WAS required.
1. Team-Lucas with a bunch of talented and ambitious coders churned out some clunky-code and called it a MOG. True they had a lot of game creation experience under their belts (a fantastic showcase of LucasFilm Games etc) - but they did not have a clue about MMOs. Combat in those days was like Uncle-Owen style slow-motion.
So Lucas's genius created the rubber-band+gum-patchy-"diamond in the rough" - the prototype - the idea from their imaginations and brought it to life. It was the most complex project of its time (and STILL is!) - and thats what these so-called VETS (whiners) got addicted to when it launched.
2. Time goes by... the decline starts - other MOGs come on the scene and you know the rest of that story.
3. NGE is decided and implemented - by SOE.
If anyone here has programmed before - they will know to read 1 page of someone else's code can be a nightmare! What if you had the entire SWG code on your desk and was told to "make it happen"?
Keep in mind that TWO comanies were involved with this nightmare of a code (which I personally heard from SWG-QA that is was horrid when they inherrited it). So how do they solve this and make it competitive?
What NGE was, was an "overlay" of code to sit ON TOP of the existing world blueprint - and set the FOUNDATION for the NEXT chapters.
Think of it as a pizza- the bread base is the old-code. The sauce in the middle is the NGE. And any number of layers of toppings are the CHAPTERs we see today and will see onwards.
You see, they HAD to take one-step back so they could go forward in a better and much faster (and organized) direction.
If you're familiar with OOC/P (not Out of Char - but Object-Oriented-Code/Programming) - you will know that a heirarchy is MANDATORY to be able to create a flexible and changable world. Parent objects (with their inherent flags) are designed and then offspring-objects with local/inherited attributes are spawned. With NGE a better structure was NEEDED in order to be able to not be hotfixing the code everyday - better structure was needed if SWG was to survive AT ALL!! (Yes, you whiners - if NGE did not happen you would have seen SWG die a long time ago!)
We have recently seen an amazing bounty of all the effort that was put in to stabalize the bleeding-SWG code - and we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
And yes, the comparison to old vs new combat is like Uncle-Owen combat vs the now Darth-Vader combat + artillery shells + grenades + battle droids + explosions and pyrotechnics galore!!!!!!
=======================
Main reason I call these so-called VETs whiners is because for years all I see is them whining and cringing and crying about BURN SOE - SWG - and I have yet to see any of them actually PAY MONEY and PLAY in all this time. Deep inside they KNOW they havent found a SINGLE MOG out there (even now) that can come close to the complexity and sandbox-iness as SWG. Cry all you want babies - or come back and play. Sour grapes - BS!
Flame me all you want - atleast I'm having a ball with my CH/BE/RE/DE hybrid Trader and 2 accounts these days.
I absolutely agree with your entire post and the idea you state.
I am a programmer/game designer from the days when 'text' online MMO's existed (Yes! TEXT!) They were called MUDs... but thats another story..
In laymans terms I will explain what NGE did - and why it WAS required.
1. Team-Lucas with a bunch of talented and ambitious coders churned out some clunky-code and called it a MOG. True they had a lot of game creation experience under their belts (a fantastic showcase of LucasFilm Games etc) - but they did not have a clue about MMOs. Combat in those days was like Uncle-Owen style slow-motion.
So Lucas's genius created the rubber-band+gum-patchy-"diamond in the rough" - the prototype - the idea from their imaginations and brought it to life. It was the most complex project of its time (and STILL is!) - and thats what these so-called VETS (whiners) got addicted to when it launched.
2. Time goes by... the decline starts - other MOGs come on the scene and you know the rest of that story.
3. NGE is decided and implemented - by SOE.
If anyone here has programmed before - they will know to read 1 page of someone else's code can be a nightmare! What if you had the entire SWG code on your desk and was told to "make it happen"?
Keep in mind that TWO comanies were involved with this nightmare of a code (which I personally heard from SWG-QA that is was horrid when they inherrited it). So how do they solve this and make it competitive?
What NGE was, was an "overlay" of code to sit ON TOP of the existing world blueprint - and set the FOUNDATION for the NEXT chapters.
Think of it as a pizza- the bread base is the old-code. The sauce in the middle is the NGE. And any number of layers of toppings are the CHAPTERs we see today and will see onwards.
You see, they HAD to take one-step back so they could go forward in a better and much faster (and organized) direction.
If you're familiar with OOC/P (not Out of Char - but Object-Oriented-Code/Programming) - you will know that a heirarchy is MANDATORY to be able to create a flexible and changable world. Parent objects (with their inherent flags) are designed and then offspring-objects with local/inherited attributes are spawned. With NGE a better structure was NEEDED in order to be able to not be hotfixing the code everyday - better structure was needed if SWG was to survive AT ALL!! (Yes, you whiners - if NGE did not happen you would have seen SWG die a long time ago!)
We have recently seen an amazing bounty of all the effort that was put in to stabalize the bleeding-SWG code - and we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
And yes, the comparison to old vs new combat is like Uncle-Owen combat vs the now Darth-Vader combat + artillery shells + grenades + battle droids + explosions and pyrotechnics galore!!!!!!
=======================
Main reason I call these so-called VETs whiners is because for years all I see is them whining and cringing and crying about BURN SOE - SWG - and I have yet to see any of them actually PAY MONEY and PLAY in all this time. Deep inside they KNOW they havent found a SINGLE MOG out there (even now) that can come close to the complexity and sandbox-iness as SWG. Cry all you want babies - or come back and play. Sour grapes - BS!
Flame me all you want - atleast I'm having a ball with my CH/BE/RE/DE hybrid Trader and 2 accounts these days.
There is no need to flame you. Your "argument" is like playing with a zippo sitting in a gasoline puddle. BTW, you can avoid the "whining" by NOT entering this forum. <Current> is one line below in the forum menu. Take the NGE crusader with you, please. /yawn at the same NGE craptasticness being spewed.
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
All elder accounts have been enabled with a 14 trial. Most people are just logging on to pack up their belonging due to the galaxy cleanup. Time will tell if people decide to stick around, but my guess is those who left due to the NGE won't stick around as it is pretty much the same old no content game of bandaids.
I absolutely agree with your entire post and the idea you state.
I am a programmer/game designer from the days when 'text' online MMO's existed (Yes! TEXT!) They were called MUDs... but thats another story..
In laymans terms I will explain what NGE did - and why it WAS required.
1. Team-Lucas with a bunch of talented and ambitious coders churned out some clunky-code and called it a MOG. True they had a lot of game creation experience under their belts (a fantastic showcase of LucasFilm Games etc) - but they did not have a clue about MMOs. Combat in those days was like Uncle-Owen style slow-motion.
So Lucas's genius created the rubber-band+gum-patchy-"diamond in the rough" - the prototype - the idea from their imaginations and brought it to life. It was the most complex project of its time (and STILL is!) - and thats what these so-called VETS (whiners) got addicted to when it launched.
2. Time goes by... the decline starts - other MOGs come on the scene and you know the rest of that story.
3. NGE is decided and implemented - by SOE.
If anyone here has programmed before - they will know to read 1 page of someone else's code can be a nightmare! What if you had the entire SWG code on your desk and was told to "make it happen"?
Keep in mind that TWO comanies were involved with this nightmare of a code (which I personally heard from SWG-QA that is was horrid when they inherrited it). So how do they solve this and make it competitive?
What NGE was, was an "overlay" of code to sit ON TOP of the existing world blueprint - and set the FOUNDATION for the NEXT chapters.
Think of it as a pizza- the bread base is the old-code. The sauce in the middle is the NGE. And any number of layers of toppings are the CHAPTERs we see today and will see onwards.
You see, they HAD to take one-step back so they could go forward in a better and much faster (and organized) direction.
If you're familiar with OOC/P (not Out of Char - but Object-Oriented-Code/Programming) - you will know that a heirarchy is MANDATORY to be able to create a flexible and changable world. Parent objects (with their inherent flags) are designed and then offspring-objects with local/inherited attributes are spawned. With NGE a better structure was NEEDED in order to be able to not be hotfixing the code everyday - better structure was needed if SWG was to survive AT ALL!! (Yes, you whiners - if NGE did not happen you would have seen SWG die a long time ago!)
We have recently seen an amazing bounty of all the effort that was put in to stabalize the bleeding-SWG code - and we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
And yes, the comparison to old vs new combat is like Uncle-Owen combat vs the now Darth-Vader combat + artillery shells + grenades + battle droids + explosions and pyrotechnics galore!!!!!!
=======================
Main reason I call these so-called VETs whiners is because for years all I see is them whining and cringing and crying about BURN SOE - SWG - and I have yet to see any of them actually PAY MONEY and PLAY in all this time. Deep inside they KNOW they havent found a SINGLE MOG out there (even now) that can come close to the complexity and sandbox-iness as SWG. Cry all you want babies - or come back and play. Sour grapes - BS!
Flame me all you want - atleast I'm having a ball with my CH/BE/RE/DE hybrid Trader and 2 accounts these days.
Um...LOL... Its still the same mess it has since before it went live bugged,laggy,broken....If its so wonderfull now how come the game is so vaccant? If its as great as you say why arent more people playing? Why would you need server mergers?Why would it need player housing purges? Why would the 10 of you current fans have to post daily sounding like paid advertisers?Why is every Dev jumped ship including thunderfart?Yeah its really looking rosey to me..
Look if you enjoy SWG good for you..I spent 3 years as a paying beta tester who saw the game get bad each new publish and change..SWG only need content and bugs fixed,not 2 revamps causing the massive player removal..And yes we know blah blah my server is growing post..Except when i go into those quote servers its pretty empty..wonder why? the NGE just paved the roadmap for what not to do to a game..And TBH totally honest i want to like SWG again i really do i love the Star Wars settings..The games core combat and level system is just so horrid to me..So carry on and enjoy your new and improved SWG...
Even If I agreed with the Op's post....which 99% of It I dont. Why should I or others pay to play a beta? If you want to move foward.....you release a new game. You dont destroy your current game and build it from the ground up again. The customers payed for the old game, not the current pos it is.
First off, this is a declaration of crusade against all those who repeatedly call out against SOE for the so called disaster of NGE. I think this has become such a reflex, I can no longer stand idly and silent. Second, I kindly ask the chivalry of my contestors to really hear me out and reply seriously and thoughtful. I respect you as a person, but I seriously think the flames against SOE and NGE are undeserved and unjust.
What is the idea if the flame? The idea to hear all the SOE and SWG hate is based on this assumption: SWG was the perfect game, running great and well and out of nowhere SOE made the NGE and ruined the game. I contest this assumption - in every part of it. It is a myth. I played SWG for 2.5 years since a short time after launch and beyond NGE. SWG was my one big MMO love. I played it daily for hours, I was in a big and successful guild who had created one of the biggest and most thriving player cities on our server. My character was Creature Handler & Pikeman, so I lost both my professions with the NGE and all my collected animals. I that, I am a direct victim of the NGE. However, since I played daily at the time and long before the NGE, the basic premise of the critic is a myth: SWG was not perfect and at the time before the NGE is was NOT thriving. On the contrary. I had watched my friends list and the population in constant decline. It had started with EQ2 and WOW was a huge blow. The TRUTH is, with every new MMO the number of active players were in constant decline. So NGE did not come to a well running game. NGE was a REACTION to what was going on. Going on were two things: first, SWG was in great decline of players, and second: every new and successfull MMO totally turned away from the principles of the sandbox game, on which SWG was based. Both EQ2 and WOW, as EVERY new MMO coming since then was not sandbox, but guided quests experience. Mark me: I loved the sandbox game in those days. We did not quests and had no quests, and still we enjoyed the game. But those days clearly were coming to an end. Look at the MMO genre today. Look at the great failure of Vanguard, which is basically because they have far too much sandbox and far too little guided experience. One of the important skills of a thinking adult is to differ between HIS/HER preferrences and the trend. I can do that, so I see what was going on for REAL, not the myth people made around it. I respect ppl who love sandbox, really. For 2+ years I loved it too. But times DID change, the market changed, the majority of the players started to want quests, things to guide them, things to do, to be entertained. You can bemoam that as passive expectancy if you will, and with some right you could, but the facts remain. SOE & Lucasarts saw a constant decline in players and a great rise of quest-based, guided MMOs, a trend which holds up until today unbroken. How could they NOT react to this? Sure, they could have stayed in a niche. But I dont think the great Star Wars franchise, of which I am a great fan, deserves that. What did NGE do? For once, it remade the combat system. Sure, not every detail of the NGE was right. But what did we have before? My pikeman had almost 3 dozens of attacks. 3-4 attacks to the legs, 3-4 to the head - it was a HUGE assortment of attacks, but if we are honest: in real combat we ALL just made button bashing. The entire complexity was more or less superficial, because in the hectic of RT combat it doesnt really matter. I never saw anyone who did not just mash all the buttons. They had really little relevance. It is a myth. Sure, you used some special abilites once and then. But in real, most were quite a pointless complexity. Second, yes the loss of s skill based system was bad. I agree on that. But it wasnt THAT bad. It is not that my life depends on it, and if you make specializations, why not? So many games are enjoyable even though they have no skill but level based system. I bemoan the losses of my professions, but I understand the reality of MMO market of those days just WAS that a lot of players were used to "inconic" classes instead of a obsucre mix of everything. People played tanks, wizards, scouts. They identify with it, and there just IS a great plausibility in this. Third: I said Jedi will be playable and should be playable from day one of SWG. Why? Because its logical. It is just (obviously as you can see now) the dream of a great number of players! How can you make a Star Wars based MMO and NOT include Jedi? Sure, it does not fit well into the setting of Episode IV - V. So what? Is Star Wars the holy grail of history play? I always thought it was a bad setting in time and going back or far ahead would have been better because it would allow greater flexibility. I would have loved a SWG in the KOTOR era. But it was at it was, and with Jedi being what many potential player wanted, how could they NOT include it. And TBH, the entire system of the Aurilla-Jedi-questline was a joke. It was implementing an ENDLESS mindnumbind grind, the worst grind i have ever seen, and no fun at all. Being a Jedi has what to do with grind? It wasnt difficult, it wasnt dangerous quests, clever roleplay or anything, it was a mindnumbind grind, so taking Jedi to a normal profession was right. Killing 100000s of mobs did not really qualify a good Jedi player above someone else. It just proofed you were more tolerant to idiotic grinds of the worst kind I have seen. What did THAT have to do with being a Jedi, with playing a MMORPG - a sort of roleplaying game? If there would have been real tests, quest and trials, but it was only grinding, pure, mindless, idiotic grind. Taking that out by the NGE was bad? I dont think so. I could go on about many things. I wont defend all things NGE did. Granted, it was a far too great simplification. Too less professions and too less alternatives from making a standart character. But it was in NO way the disaster to the well running game myth makes of it. Besides, all realistic evidence points out it was Lucasarts who pulled most of the strings, so blaming SOE is just that blind fanatism to find someone guilty and tar and feather him as witchhunters usually do. In the days before NGE, SWG was a game in decline in a new era of MMO gaming where the sandbox idea was about to fade away. Thats the truth. Even though I dont like everything NGE did, it was a courage I admire. A MMO can not only build on the always shrinking niche of vets. It must open up. We all cry always for innovation, we always blame companies who rest on their laurels and dont dare to innovate. SOE did dare. And what did the vets do? The started a witchhunt and flame war of unseen propotions. I had sadly watched the official SWG forums those days. Besides some true claims, the majority of ppl where aggressive witchhunters, seeking to vent off and exaggerate, knowing no reason nor restraint and thus bringing ruin to the game with the emotional frenzy and the always spread false myth of SOE ruining the perfect game. SWG was NEVER perfect. It was great in many ways, but it was also heavily flawed. If something really ruined the game, it was the merciless and unreasonable flame war of veterans, who did no accept that the modalities of gaming had changed and they were dinosaurs of MMO gaming now. Truth hurts. I am sorry it does, really. But after all this year we still hear this false myth against SWG and SOE. It is not reality and despite several great errors NGE had, it is undeserved. Before you flame me, pls now after all these years now really think calm and without prejudice about all thise before you go to auto-flame mode. Thanks.
All i read was blah blah blah blah. YOU dont get it and more than likely never will. Go stick your fingers in your ears and hMM real loudly!
to call the vets who where upset and or quit about the CU/NGE whiners is rediculous. That was the majority of the population. You must have been a part of the minority who wanted easy mode access to Jedi, or a chance to rock people in PvP with little to no effort.
SWG Pre CU was one of the best worlds/envoironments that existed in the MMO scene. Im not talking about it being "Bug free" or "For the Masses" either. Logging in you felt a sense of struggle and conflict that you where a part of. That shit wont ever come back. At least not the SoE SWG.
Im a dinosaur for not wanting change? are your fucking serious? It was a brannnnd new fucking game. SWG2 is what it was. All they would have had to do was just ad more content early. More armor, weapons, lore. Just more options in general. The skill based game i once loved is dead. And you feel it was nessecary.
Get that easy mode peice of shit outta here. Fuck SOE and fuck anyone who enjoyed that shit. They ruined a unique, and unmatched experiance. So now i wait for Tabula Rasa and cross my fingers that the KOTOR MMO rumors are true.
to call the vets who where upset and or quit about the CU/NGE whiners is rediculous. That was the majority of the population. You must have been a part of the minority who wanted easy mode access to Jedi, or a chance to rock people in PvP with little to no effort. SWG Pre CU was one of the best worlds/envoironments that existed in the MMO scene. Im not talking about it being "Bug free" or "For the Masses" either. Logging in you felt a sense of struggle and conflict that you where a part of. That shit wont ever come back. At least not the SoE SWG. Im a dinosaur for not wanting change? are your fucking serious? It was a brannnnd new fucking game. SWG2 is what it was. All they would have had to do was just ad more content early. More armor, weapons, lore. Just more options in general. The skill based game i once loved is dead. And you feel it was nessecary. Get that easy mode peice of shit outta here. Fuck SOE and fuck anyone who enjoyed that shit. They ruined a unique, and unmatched experiance. So now i wait for Tabula Rasa and cross my fingers that the KOTOR MMO rumors are true.
Well put.
There isn't a game out there that is anywhere near the level of freedom SWG had. No game out there comes close to the sheer possibilities of pre-cu play. No game out there is as immense and ripe for creating your own virtual life in.
Until one of the EMU projects finished their work... then there will be.
SWG was a universe to live in. Everything else is just a game.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I absolutely agree with your entire post and the idea you state.
I am a programmer/game designer from the days when 'text' online MMO's existed (Yes! TEXT!) They were called MUDs... but thats another story..
In laymans terms I will explain what NGE did - and why it WAS required.
Required? That's your opinion, but I say NGE was NOT required...
I say the NGE were NOT required change that was made to SWG. Sure SWG needed something, but NGE was NOT the thing it needed
1. Team-Lucas with a bunch of talented and ambitious coders churned out some clunky-code and called it a MOG. True they had a lot of game creation experience under their belts (a fantastic showcase of LucasFilm Games etc) - but they did not have a clue about MMOs. Combat in those days was like Uncle-Owen style slow-motion.
And guess what? People actually like that combat system, and all they wanted was bug fixes regarding to THAT SYSTEM, not the WHOLE GAME... (and don't give me craps argument that say "Oh it isn't Star Wars-y", or "It's not ICONIC..." Those are the company lines that not everyone believe is true. As for it being macro-ed and button-mashing... that's same for almost EVERY MMORPG out there.. so that's a weak argument in that sense...)
So Lucas's genius created the rubber-band+gum-patchy-"diamond in the rough" - the prototype - the idea from their imaginations and brought it to life. It was the most complex project of its time (and STILL is!) - and thats what these so-called VETS (whiners) got addicted to when it launched.
2. Time goes by... the decline starts - other MOGs come on the scene and you know the rest of that story.
3. NGE is decided and implemented - by SOE.
If anyone here has programmed before - they will know to read 1 page of someone else's code can be a nightmare! What if you had the entire SWG code on your desk and was told to "make it happen"?
Yes, reading someone else's code can be bad, but not if they code it clean, along with enough comments to show what they are doing... It's one of those fundamental things they are teaching in school... Clean coding with comments to make it easy for other programmers... I am still in school (DeVry University, Game and Simulation Programming major), and I have check on different sites when it comes to code and such, and I know that it's hard when the people who wrote it don't put comments and the code isn't clean and organize, but that's not the reason for NGE... that's another type of nightmare...
Keep in mind that TWO comanies were involved with this nightmare of a code (which I personally heard from SWG-QA that is was horrid when they inherrited it). So how do they solve this and make it competitive?
What NGE was, was an "overlay" of code to sit ON TOP of the existing world blueprint - and set the FOUNDATION for the NEXT chapters.
Think of it as a pizza- the bread base is the old-code. The sauce in the middle is the NGE. And any number of layers of toppings are the CHAPTERs we see today and will see onwards.
You see, they HAD to take one-step back so they could go forward in a better and much faster (and organized) direction.
If you're familiar with OOC/P (not Out of Char - but Object-Oriented-Code/Programming) - you will know that a heirarchy is MANDATORY to be able to create a flexible and changable world. Parent objects (with their inherent flags) are designed and then offspring-objects with local/inherited attributes are spawned. With NGE a better structure was NEEDED in order to be able to not be hotfixing the code everyday - better structure was needed if SWG was to survive AT ALL!! (Yes, you whiners - if NGE did not happen you would have seen SWG die a long time ago!)
They should make the "bread" as you put into something that taste good on its own, and not abandon it and try to make a pizza out of it (using your analogy). If they can't make a bread, and tries to change after the bread has been baked and use that bread to make pizza? It's so nasty...
I rather see NGE as SWG 2, and set it in different SW time and let those who want that type of game to go play it, and continue to fix the bugs as they were trying to do and give the contents as promised. And unless SOE pull the plug, you'll still see a group of players supporting the game until it dies.. (and it wouldn't die long time ago... but may even last into 2010 unless there are better Star Wars MMO out there...) Saying that SWG would die without NGE is just poor argument without thinking the whole thing through... MMO don't die unless the company pull the plug and/or screwed it up bad...
We have recently seen an amazing bounty of all the effort that was put in to stabalize the bleeding-SWG code - and we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
Funny, all I see (and I use my friend's account, or rather, my own account that I gave him after I quit), was a empty world with no one but other's alt to play with... (a city was from with just 2 real players along with their combined 6 toons and 4 accounts? Sure that's a good sign. ) As for Elders, they check out the game still with the vet trials, and they probably don't stay... (some might, but others will not... )
And yes, the comparison to old vs new combat is like Uncle-Owen combat vs the now Darth-Vader combat + artillery shells + grenades + battle droids + explosions and pyrotechnics galore!!!!!!
Person opinion... don't really care for... so won't get into it with you. (I like Pre-CU btw)
=======================
Main reason I call these so-called VETs whiners is because for years all I see is them whining and cringing and crying about BURN SOE - SWG - and I have yet to see any of them actually PAY MONEY and PLAY in all this time. Deep inside they KNOW they havent found a SINGLE MOG out there (even now) that can come close to the complexity and sandbox-iness as SWG. Cry all you want babies - or come back and play. Sour grapes - BS!
.... Good argument, call Vets whiners because they refuse to pay money to beta test a game when that said game has been released for ... almost 4 years now... Yes, most of the vets have not found a MMORPG that come close to SWG Pre-CU, but that's the game company's issue, not us... And we won't go back, simple is that... (I have no desire on wasting my money on something that I view isn't what I bought from the store... and isn't fun)
Flame me all you want - atleast I'm having a ball with my CH/BE/RE/DE hybrid Trader and 2 accounts these days.
Flame? hardly, go enjoy your game and stop posting in the Vet section.. take all the "Vets come back to play with us" crowd with you...
the NGE were never right lol It was really made to draw a new "traget audience". It was far too difficult for most young childeren and $OE wanted their money too.. uh..i mean, wanted them to be able to play as well. So they made the point-and-click system, pulled 23 professions out of it, made Jedi a starter prof so kids find the game way more interesting, introduced a lvl based system and tried to make it look more ''star warsy'' and ''iconic'' by representing Luke for the Jedi, Leia for the Officer..etc..etc. At the same time they hoped the old community would stay as well and said "you should play it like you're playing a new game". Too bad it didnt really work out that way, Vets left and the "target audience" never came
the devs seem to realize that now and are slowly dropping old stuff in a new "coat" back in the game
Comments
i will give this OP a huge clap and shake him by the hand for having the balls to stand up to this forum community
i too feel the NGE has come along way in the last few months and also feel that we are turning the tide in the game dramatically with the coming release of chapter 6, if some of the nay sayers on here would bother to actually log back in and take a gander on Test center they would realise the NGE has come of age and is a credible candidate for the MMO market again.
sure there are still bugs - but arnt there in all MMOs?
sure there is still the much detested proffesion system of the NGE - but then again, is it any different from any other MMO?
I - think - not
so i would say to all of you on here - log back in for at least a month at best and try it out
you all complain about low populations keeping you away
why is it low populations i wonder
because all of you guys are whats missing - the vets - the true SWG player base that vanished all that time ago
COME BACK!!!! - SWG NEEDS YOU
I didn't 'just mash all the buttons' I only ever used adverage armour and weapons and could beat all but 1 jedi on my server(not using any dots either) with multiple templates, you think I could of done that by button bashing? People who complain about the combat system pre-cu are the ones who couldn't learn to use it. The combat system pre-cu was perfect, it was the overpowered armour and Dot attacks that needed changing nothing else. In pre-cu you knew who people were and feared certain people because you knew from previous fights they understood the game. It was the button bashers who I would go and fight 10v1 at their own city and win.
Please tell me how great the NGE combat system is now and explain what is so great, besides those awsome attacks that just stop my legs working or make me run 80% slower for a few seconds.................lol uberness
I played NGE about 3 month after it came out, got my level 80 elder jedi on, went to restuss for the first time ever and managed to win about 7 out of 10 fights by just bashing 3 skills and everyone was level 90 and I had never played nge b4 lol!!!
Seriously saying all you had to do pre-cu was button bash is like saying all you need to-do in counter-strike is spray with your crosshair over the enemy.
$OE proved flat out they didn't when they pushed the nge.
How does it feel to pay to betatest?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I think what kills me most about this game is that its taken this long to get it to what they must be calling a semi finished state. And things still havent changed. Its stil empty. You would figure someone out there would finally just say okay... we failed. Lets start over or scrap the whole thing. Yet, they still keep beating that dead horse....
a big thumbs up to you for posting so fast
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
SOE broke it all when they messed up SWG. It was no longer the same game people subscribed in first place. Once trust is lost, you can't get it back. Sorry.
Pre-Publish 9 FTW.
I didn't mind the NGE combat system. In fact, I supported more of an action packed FPS style MMO. However, the dumbing down of every profession is what ended it for me. Also, much of WoW's succes was due to it's insane following derived from older Blizzard games such as Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo I & II. They are known for good solid performance. Most people who started their multiplayer gaming careers began with these three. Shoot, WoW can also run on a PIII. lol
I absolutely agree with your entire post and the idea you state.
I am a programmer/game designer from the days when 'text' online MMO's existed (Yes! TEXT!) They were called MUDs... but thats another story..
In laymans terms I will explain what NGE did - and why it WAS required.
1. Team-Lucas with a bunch of talented and ambitious coders churned out some clunky-code and called it a MOG. True they had a lot of game creation experience under their belts (a fantastic showcase of LucasFilm Games etc) - but they did not have a clue about MMOs. Combat in those days was like Uncle-Owen style slow-motion.
So Lucas's genius created the rubber-band+gum-patchy-"diamond in the rough" - the prototype - the idea from their imaginations and brought it to life. It was the most complex project of its time (and STILL is!) - and thats what these so-called VETS (whiners) got addicted to when it launched.
2. Time goes by... the decline starts - other MOGs come on the scene and you know the rest of that story.
3. NGE is decided and implemented - by SOE.
If anyone here has programmed before - they will know to read 1 page of someone else's code can be a nightmare! What if you had the entire SWG code on your desk and was told to "make it happen"?
Keep in mind that TWO comanies were involved with this nightmare of a code (which I personally heard from SWG-QA that is was horrid when they inherrited it). So how do they solve this and make it competitive?
What NGE was, was an "overlay" of code to sit ON TOP of the existing world blueprint - and set the FOUNDATION for the NEXT chapters.
Think of it as a pizza- the bread base is the old-code. The sauce in the middle is the NGE. And any number of layers of toppings are the CHAPTERs we see today and will see onwards.
You see, they HAD to take one-step back so they could go forward in a better and much faster (and organized) direction.
If you're familiar with OOC/P (not Out of Char - but Object-Oriented-Code/Programming) - you will know that a heirarchy is MANDATORY to be able to create a flexible and changable world. Parent objects (with their inherent flags) are designed and then offspring-objects with local/inherited attributes are spawned. With NGE a better structure was NEEDED in order to be able to not be hotfixing the code everyday - better structure was needed if SWG was to survive AT ALL!! (Yes, you whiners - if NGE did not happen you would have seen SWG die a long time ago!)
We have recently seen an amazing bounty of all the effort that was put in to stabalize the bleeding-SWG code - and we are seeing a transfusion of subscribers all over again. With the BM (BE/CH hybrid) you wont believe the amount of Elders who have turned on their accounts and are seen on every corner of TC/TCP and various Live servers!
And yes, the comparison to old vs new combat is like Uncle-Owen combat vs the now Darth-Vader combat + artillery shells + grenades + battle droids + explosions and pyrotechnics galore!!!!!!
=======================
Main reason I call these so-called VETs whiners is because for years all I see is them whining and cringing and crying about BURN SOE - SWG - and I have yet to see any of them actually PAY MONEY and PLAY in all this time. Deep inside they KNOW they havent found a SINGLE MOG out there (even now) that can come close to the complexity and sandbox-iness as SWG. Cry all you want babies - or come back and play. Sour grapes - BS!
Flame me all you want - atleast I'm having a ball with my CH/BE/RE/DE hybrid Trader and 2 accounts these days.
There is no need to flame you. Your "argument" is like playing with a zippo sitting in a gasoline puddle. BTW, you can avoid the "whining" by NOT entering this forum. <Current> is one line below in the forum menu. Take the NGE crusader with you, please. /yawn at the same NGE craptasticness being spewed.
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
(never mind the programmer does not need enlightment.. he knows all)
R-torps beat a full house every time.
All elder accounts have been enabled with a 14 trial. Most people are just logging on to pack up their belonging due to the galaxy cleanup. Time will tell if people decide to stick around, but my guess is those who left due to the NGE won't stick around as it is pretty much the same old no content game of bandaids.
Um...LOL... Its still the same mess it has since before it went live bugged,laggy,broken....If its so wonderfull now how come the game is so vaccant? If its as great as you say why arent more people playing? Why would you need server mergers?Why would it need player housing purges? Why would the 10 of you current fans have to post daily sounding like paid advertisers?Why is every Dev jumped ship including thunderfart?Yeah its really looking rosey to me..
Look if you enjoy SWG good for you..I spent 3 years as a paying beta tester who saw the game get bad each new publish and change..SWG only need content and bugs fixed,not 2 revamps causing the massive player removal..And yes we know blah blah my server is growing post..Except when i go into those quote servers its pretty empty..wonder why? the NGE just paved the roadmap for what not to do to a game..And TBH totally honest i want to like SWG again i really do i love the Star Wars settings..The games core combat and level system is just so horrid to me..So carry on and enjoy your new and improved SWG...
Even If I agreed with the Op's post....which 99% of It I dont. Why should I or others pay to play a beta? If you want to move foward.....you release a new game. You dont destroy your current game and build it from the ground up again. The customers payed for the old game, not the current pos it is.
Despite the bugs, balance issues, etc. of pre-cu/cu.. the potential this game once had was off the charts.
Good luck with SWG. For your sake, I hope SOE won't consider you expendable either in the event they decide to dump another revamp on its players.
to call the vets who where upset and or quit about the CU/NGE whiners is rediculous. That was the majority of the population. You must have been a part of the minority who wanted easy mode access to Jedi, or a chance to rock people in PvP with little to no effort.
SWG Pre CU was one of the best worlds/envoironments that existed in the MMO scene. Im not talking about it being "Bug free" or "For the Masses" either. Logging in you felt a sense of struggle and conflict that you where a part of. That shit wont ever come back. At least not the SoE SWG.
Im a dinosaur for not wanting change? are your fucking serious? It was a brannnnd new fucking game. SWG2 is what it was. All they would have had to do was just ad more content early. More armor, weapons, lore. Just more options in general. The skill based game i once loved is dead. And you feel it was nessecary.
Get that easy mode peice of shit outta here. Fuck SOE and fuck anyone who enjoyed that shit. They ruined a unique, and unmatched experiance. So now i wait for Tabula Rasa and cross my fingers that the KOTOR MMO rumors are true.
w3rd
There isn't a game out there that is anywhere near the level of freedom SWG had. No game out there comes close to the sheer possibilities of pre-cu play. No game out there is as immense and ripe for creating your own virtual life in.
Until one of the EMU projects finished their work... then there will be.
SWG was a universe to live in. Everything else is just a game.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
the NGE were never right lol It was really made to draw a new "traget audience". It was far too difficult for most young childeren and $OE wanted their money too.. uh..i mean, wanted them to be able to play as well
. So they made the point-and-click system, pulled 23 professions out of it, made Jedi a starter prof so kids find the game way more interesting, introduced a lvl based system and tried to make it look more ''star warsy'' and ''iconic'' by representing Luke for the Jedi, Leia for the Officer..etc..etc. At the same time they hoped the old community would stay as well and said "you should play it like you're playing a new game". Too bad it didnt really work out that way, Vets left and the "target audience" never came
the devs seem to realize that now and are slowly dropping old stuff in a new "coat" back in the game