In a typicial publisher/dev contract for a game, a good dev house can expect to earn around 13-19% of monthly subscription revenue. That is until the game earns out. Earns out is a special term that means all of the development costs for the game have been repaid. In full. When a game earns out, it can earn a greater percentage of monthly subscription fees ... say 18-24% of monthly subscription fees. That's how contracts work in the games biz. Please rework your math if you've ever made a post using another financial model to fit within these guidelines. Thanks tons. Almost forgot, the rate of burn for a 100 man studio is around 900k per month +,- on benefits offered, and location of talent. Just round it up to a cool million for easy math sake or put the studio in Fargo ND for 600k.
Thats assuming the publisher help incure the cost of producing the game. Which SOE did not. SOE's revenues are strickly for what Sigil hired them for. Marketing, Servers and billing.
Thus, their share of the monthly fee would be slightly lower than the 13%~19% you suggested. Assuming SOE got a hefty portion of the original box sales. Also, Sigil received alot of their money from Venture Capitalists. They knew the risk before getting involved. It just a shame Sigil couldn't have qwited till March to have released Vanguard. All the bad press killed alot of potential buyers... even though almost all the problems that plagued them have been cleaned up.
Either way, VG can stay afloat with 45-70k subs. It a shame that more people don't really play this game and are fearfull of it potential. WHat we all saw was it's worst. Vanguard has very little issues now, they are over that hump. H8trz don't know this so they think their "performance" rants are still valid.
In a typicial publisher/dev contract for a game, a good dev house can expect to earn around 13-19% of monthly subscription revenue. That is until the game earns out. Earns out is a special term that means all of the development costs for the game have been repaid. In full. When a game earns out, it can earn a greater percentage of monthly subscription fees ... say 18-24% of monthly subscription fees. That's how contracts work in the games biz. Please rework your math if you've ever made a post using another financial model to fit within these guidelines. Thanks tons. Almost forgot, the rate of burn for a 100 man studio is around 900k per month +,- on benefits offered, and location of talent. Just round it up to a cool million for easy math sake or put the studio in Fargo ND for 600k.
Typically, game companies sell games to distributors for 40-50% of the game's retail price. That is, if a game sells in a store for $20, the game company may have sold it to a distributor for $8. If your royalty is 5% of list price, you earn $1 per copy sold; if it is based on gross sales, you earn only 40 cents. Multiply a "list price" royalty by 2 1/2 in order to compare it to a "gross sales" royalty.You can expect to be offered a royalty ranging from 1% to 3% of list price for board or role-playing games. This is considerably lower than book authors receive. Unfortunately, this is standard in the industry.
2006 Game Developer Salary Survey Reveals Industry Trends The editors of Gamasutra sister publication Game Developer magazine have revealed the results of its 2006 Salary Survey, calculating an average American game industry salary of $73,316, slightly down on 2005's figure of $75,039.
The core data from the 2006 survey is now available in the April 2007 issue of Game Developer magazine, being delivered to subscribers in the near future, and including information on all of the major job functions, with all the free-to-subscriber information that has been available in previous years.
According to the new survey, conducted in association with Audience Insights, the average salary in 2006 over all American game programmers was $80,886 - basically flat on the year before, thanks to an influx of entry level coders to the game business, but with significant increases for veteran programmers.
The 2006 average for artists was $65,107, again basically flat on 2005, though average salaries of experienced lead artists and animators rose the most. The game designers' average was $61,538, with salaries scaling within a $5,000 range over the last 3 years over all experience levels.
In other categories, production personnel in America had an average salary of $77,131 in 2006, Q/A's average decreased to $37,861, the average audio employee was paid $69,935, and business & legal personnel came out on top with an average $95,596 salary last year.
Read more intresting articels about Game Industry Salary Survey
I love how guys like the OP "suddenly" have this inside source AFTER the Brad announces he's going to say something... I'm sure his "source" is working HARD and late on a Saturday... yeah, I'm sure he does...
I wonder where this info was all week? LOL
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
I am wondering where this story about SOEs devs comes from. The game is owned and developed by Sigil. SOE is the producer. This means that the devs working on the game are hired by Sigil. SOE staff work for technical support, marketing, packaging, distribution etc. The only case that devs from Sony work on VG is that Sigil pays SOE for them. Thats how these things work. Until SOE buys VG from Sigil, I dont believe that Sony devs can work for VG.
Basically, to prepare the game for launch there was alot of work to do. Rather than hire temp help, Sigil chose to "borrow" some programmers off of SOE to assist in getting the game in shape. Thus, SOE gets a game added to it's Station Pass in better shape, and Sigil gets experienced help. Obviously, SOE would be looking to be re-imbursed for the costs of it's employees. The contract that you discuss is entirely seperate issue from this. The loaning/borrowing of employees on a temporary basis is a side deal.
I am wondering where this story about SOEs devs comes from. The game is owned and developed by Sigil. SOE is the producer. This means that the devs working on the game are hired by Sigil. SOE staff work for technical support, marketing, packaging, distribution etc. The only case that devs from Sony work on VG is that Sigil pays SOE for them. Thats how these things work. Until SOE buys VG from Sigil, I dont believe that Sony devs can work for VG.
SOE is paying the bills. Without SOE Sigil would be in debt up to their eyeballs. You better believe it they have influence on Sigil. It may not be on paper, but Sigil is in SOEs grasp now and hopefully they can fix this garbage of a game.
Dude... you are really retarded. Go back to school and learn Buisiness 101 again. Contracts are contracts.. peroid!
Sigil hired a company called SOE to house and host the game servers, Marketing of the game and their billing. Since Sigil is a Gaming House and not a publisher they needed to shop around. Brad is real close to Smedly(SOE), so it was a natural choice. Since brad made SOE what it is today I'm sure they work closely with each other. but seeing that SOE itself doesnt have another MMORPG in the making, they are betting on VG making it big for future revenues. In a few years VG will have 300-400k subs and slowly moving up. The biggest hinderance is VG's hardware requirments, which won't be an issue in 2008.
The deal's finer points are in the contract, but SOE probably funded the marketing and Boxing and distribution of VG out of Pocket. Since they also provide other services the contract probably stipulates that SOE gets $3 of the $14 it cost every month. Since Vanguard is pulling in some $900,000/month (based of 70k subs) you can see that both are profitable and can actually make quit a bit of money over the next 2~7 years.
I'm being extremely conservative here. If VG maintains approx 150,000 subs a month thats over $2 million/month in revenue. You can see how a small niche game like Vanguard can remain completly viable with only 150k subscribers and has nothing to be alarmed about if they projections of 700k subs never see's the light of day.
So go ahead and paint your Doom & Gloom posts, too many people love freeform travel and their boats and houses. The ability to fly or seek out dungeon afer dungeon after dungeon.... it never ends.
Player made boat:
Your post has a lot of ms-information in it as well as those ridiculous screen shots. SOE has a new MMORPG coming up called "Gods and Heroes".
The "doom and gloom" is warranted as we prepare for Brad's update coming soon: http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569. Speculation is that the message will be that SOE is taking over the game and they will start server merges. Even EQ2 which turned into a pretty good game did not add servers and significantly increase it's population after it's mergers.
Lastly, Brad certainly did not make SOE what it is today. SOE was able to make some smart design decisions with EQ1 after Brad left to turn the game around. Also, SOE was able to redesign EQ2 after Brad did the initial design to turn that around also.
If it were not for SOE's money, VG would go the way of Horizons and DnL. The SOE takeover will keep VG on life support but it will never be a success.
Don't get me wrong, it is good that people like you like VG. Even DnL and ArchLord have fans but spreading such nonsense will not make VG a blockbuster. It is and continues to be one of the biggest failures in gaming history. 30 million dollars for 30k Players. That is a million dollars per 1000 Players. That is pathetic.
I am wondering where this story about SOEs devs comes from. The game is owned and developed by Sigil. SOE is the producer. This means that the devs working on the game are hired by Sigil. SOE staff work for technical support, marketing, packaging, distribution etc. The only case that devs from Sony work on VG is that Sigil pays SOE for them. Thats how these things work. Until SOE buys VG from Sigil, I dont believe that Sony devs can work for VG.
SOE is paying the bills. Without SOE Sigil would be in debt up to their eyeballs. You better believe it they have influence on Sigil. It may not be on paper, but Sigil is in SOEs grasp now and hopefully they can fix this garbage of a game.
No it is not. The 30M invested in VG was payed by Sigil. SOE does not really care about VG. If VG fails, Sony will just dump it. If it is true that Sony wants to buy it, that means that Sony believes the game will earn them alot of money. Otherwise why invest money in saving an awful game that you have not invested in?
I agree. Why throw good money after bad? Why take resources from EQ2, which is apparently making a small comeback and throw it at this hideous disaster? If I were SOE, I'd let this turd be flushed down the toilet.
*eyes glaze over as he rubs his magic balls... erm I mean ball..."
Sigil will, by the end of this year, have sold VG and it's debts to SoE for the tune of $1. SoE will then develop the game and it will finally be what it should have been from day one. At this time Sigil will announce it's new mmorpg 'World of Worcraft' , which will be targeted at low end machines with really crappy graphics, will be playable by a blind 7 year old, and be completely soloable from 1-200. This new game will be the biggest hobby since knitting and will unite the entirety of the Middle East and America in one giant guild filled with love.
*eyes glaze over as he rubs his magic balls... erm I mean ball..." Sigil will, by the end of this year, have sold VG and it's debts to SoE for the tune of $1. SoE will then develop the game and it will finally be what it should have been from day one. At this time Sigil will announce it's new mmorpg 'World of Worcraft' , which will be targeted at low end machines with really crappy graphics, will be playable by a blind 7 year old, and be completely soloable from 1-200. This new game will be the biggest hobby since knitting and will unite the entirety of the Middle East and America in one giant guild filled with love. It is the future! I have seen it!
*eyes glaze over as he rubs his magic balls... erm I mean ball..." Sigil will, by the end of this year, have sold VG and it's debts to SoE for the tune of $1. SoE will then develop the game and it will finally be what it should have been from day one. At this time Sigil will announce it's new mmorpg 'World of Worcraft' , which will be targeted at low end machines with really crappy graphics, will be playable by a blind 7 year old, and be completely soloable from 1-200. This new game will be the biggest hobby since knitting and will unite the entirety of the Middle East and America in one giant guild filled with love. It is the future! I have seen it!
Comments
Thats assuming the publisher help incure the cost of producing the game. Which SOE did not. SOE's revenues are strickly for what Sigil hired them for. Marketing, Servers and billing.
Thus, their share of the monthly fee would be slightly lower than the 13%~19% you suggested. Assuming SOE got a hefty portion of the original box sales. Also, Sigil received alot of their money from Venture Capitalists. They knew the risk before getting involved. It just a shame Sigil couldn't have qwited till March to have released Vanguard. All the bad press killed alot of potential buyers... even though almost all the problems that plagued them have been cleaned up.
Either way, VG can stay afloat with 45-70k subs. It a shame that more people don't really play this game and are fearfull of it potential. WHat we all saw was it's worst. Vanguard has very little issues now, they are over that hump. H8trz don't know this so they think their "performance" rants are still valid.
Typically, game companies sell games to distributors for 40-50% of the game's retail price. That is, if a game sells in a store for $20, the game company may have sold it to a distributor for $8. If your royalty is 5% of list price, you earn $1 per copy sold; if it is based on gross sales, you earn only 40 cents. Multiply a "list price" royalty by 2 1/2 in order to compare it to a "gross sales" royalty.You can expect to be offered a royalty ranging from 1% to 3% of list price for board or role-playing games. This is considerably lower than book authors receive. Unfortunately, this is standard in the industry.
2006 Game Developer Salary Survey Reveals Industry Trends The editors of Gamasutra sister publication Game Developer magazine have revealed the results of its 2006 Salary Survey, calculating an average American game industry salary of $73,316, slightly down on 2005's figure of $75,039.
The core data from the 2006 survey is now available in the April 2007 issue of Game Developer magazine, being delivered to subscribers in the near future, and including information on all of the major job functions, with all the free-to-subscriber information that has been available in previous years.
According to the new survey, conducted in association with Audience Insights, the average salary in 2006 over all American game programmers was $80,886 - basically flat on the year before, thanks to an influx of entry level coders to the game business, but with significant increases for veteran programmers.
The 2006 average for artists was $65,107, again basically flat on 2005, though average salaries of experienced lead artists and animators rose the most. The game designers' average was $61,538, with salaries scaling within a $5,000 range over the last 3 years over all experience levels.
In other categories, production personnel in America had an average salary of $77,131 in 2006, Q/A's average decreased to $37,861, the average audio employee was paid $69,935, and business & legal personnel came out on top with an average $95,596 salary last year.
Read more intresting articels about Game Industry Salary Survey
http://gamecareerguide.com/features/266/index.php?cid=GCG06_ENDEX3
Nuff said
I love how guys like the OP "suddenly" have this inside source AFTER the Brad announces he's going to say something... I'm sure his "source" is working HARD and late on a Saturday... yeah, I'm sure he does...
I wonder where this info was all week? LOL
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Basically, to prepare the game for launch there was alot of work to do. Rather than hire temp help, Sigil chose to "borrow" some programmers off of SOE to assist in getting the game in shape. Thus, SOE gets a game added to it's Station Pass in better shape, and Sigil gets experienced help. Obviously, SOE would be looking to be re-imbursed for the costs of it's employees. The contract that you discuss is entirely seperate issue from this. The loaning/borrowing of employees on a temporary basis is a side deal.
Dude... you are really retarded. Go back to school and learn Buisiness 101 again. Contracts are contracts.. peroid!
Sigil hired a company called SOE to house and host the game servers, Marketing of the game and their billing. Since Sigil is a Gaming House and not a publisher they needed to shop around. Brad is real close to Smedly(SOE), so it was a natural choice. Since brad made SOE what it is today I'm sure they work closely with each other. but seeing that SOE itself doesnt have another MMORPG in the making, they are betting on VG making it big for future revenues. In a few years VG will have 300-400k subs and slowly moving up. The biggest hinderance is VG's hardware requirments, which won't be an issue in 2008.
The deal's finer points are in the contract, but SOE probably funded the marketing and Boxing and distribution of VG out of Pocket. Since they also provide other services the contract probably stipulates that SOE gets $3 of the $14 it cost every month. Since Vanguard is pulling in some $900,000/month (based of 70k subs) you can see that both are profitable and can actually make quit a bit of money over the next 2~7 years.
I'm being extremely conservative here. If VG maintains approx 150,000 subs a month thats over $2 million/month in revenue. You can see how a small niche game like Vanguard can remain completly viable with only 150k subscribers and has nothing to be alarmed about if they projections of 700k subs never see's the light of day.
So go ahead and paint your Doom & Gloom posts, too many people love freeform travel and their boats and houses. The ability to fly or seek out dungeon afer dungeon after dungeon.... it never ends.
Player made boat:
Your post has a lot of ms-information in it as well as those ridiculous screen shots. SOE has a new MMORPG coming up called "Gods and Heroes".
Secondly, even if VG was a solid, fun, game it will have too much competition in the coming months to get 400k subscriptions. Also, VG never had 700k subscriptions projection. Brad did predict 250k - 500k as in this post: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/14779-blizzard-failed-sigil-up-bat-5.html#post295712.
The "doom and gloom" is warranted as we prepare for Brad's update coming soon: http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569. Speculation is that the message will be that SOE is taking over the game and they will start server merges. Even EQ2 which turned into a pretty good game did not add servers and significantly increase it's population after it's mergers.
Lastly, Brad certainly did not make SOE what it is today. SOE was able to make some smart design decisions with EQ1 after Brad left to turn the game around. Also, SOE was able to redesign EQ2 after Brad did the initial design to turn that around also.
If it were not for SOE's money, VG would go the way of Horizons and DnL. The SOE takeover will keep VG on life support but it will never be a success.
Don't get me wrong, it is good that people like you like VG. Even DnL and ArchLord have fans but spreading such nonsense will not make VG a blockbuster. It is and continues to be one of the biggest failures in gaming history. 30 million dollars for 30k Players. That is a million dollars per 1000 Players. That is pathetic.
No it is not. The 30M invested in VG was payed by Sigil. SOE does not really care about VG. If VG fails, Sony will just dump it. If it is true that Sony wants to buy it, that means that Sony believes the game will earn them alot of money. Otherwise why invest money in saving an awful game that you have not invested in?
I agree. Why throw good money after bad? Why take resources from EQ2, which is apparently making a small comeback and throw it at this hideous disaster? If I were SOE, I'd let this turd be flushed down the toilet.*eyes glaze over as he rubs his magic balls... erm I mean ball..."
Sigil will, by the end of this year, have sold VG and it's debts to SoE for the tune of $1. SoE will then develop the game and it will finally be what it should have been from day one. At this time Sigil will announce it's new mmorpg 'World of Worcraft' , which will be targeted at low end machines with really crappy graphics, will be playable by a blind 7 year old, and be completely soloable from 1-200. This new game will be the biggest hobby since knitting and will unite the entirety of the Middle East and America in one giant guild filled with love.
It is the future! I have seen it!
That was kinda the joke