Actually, I'm mad that Jedi were ever introduced to fuck this game up. What an amazing game this was when it came out, now it is a shadow of its former self. All because of Jedi and bad Live designers. I'm a Star Wars fan first and foremost, so the introduction of Jedi in a period where there were only THREE was pretty annoying.
Jedi were imbalanced and it didn't many the 2 years you spent to obtain all that, I obtained the same results within months. It wasn't hard. This isn't the point though. Hopefully if Bioware is making a KOTOR game we can all just finally enjoy a Jedi oriented game where we won't be nerfed or balanced to be on par with non-force sensitive classes.
I can see your point but, he he, I still think it's wrong.
I do believe, that properly handled, an Alpha Profession could have worked much, much better.
There were plenty of solutions that SOE could have considered rather than simply 'nerf'' jedi because non-jedi weren't willing to reconfigure their templates into jedi-beating specs (and there were plenty of them).
Option 1 - Take Jedi out of the W and put them in their own Lightside vs Sith War
Option 2 - add other competitive alpha classes alongside jied - from Emperor's Hands to Antaran Rangers to Nightsisters to Royal Guards thus turning the game from a two-tiered combat system to a three-tiered one.
I am sure that anyone who doesn't like the 'hard earned alpha class' idea can pick holes with both these options but at least these options are more imaginative, constructive and positive than the solution that SOE did come up with at the behest of those who didn't want to be and couldn't fight jedi.
See for me I thought the war in SWG was between rebels and imperials. Yes it is a dead horse but the time frame there were few jedi. They never could add war into the game between rebels and imperials because they were wasteing time on a alpha class. The only way said class could work is if the rest of the game has a way for people to feel like they are truly fighting in a war between rebels and imperials.
A sub conflect between force users with lightsabers should have been like iceing on a cake. Instead the way they did it was added icing on top of uncooked and unmixed cake. I still rember a list of new dungons they were going to add after the vette and death watch bunker. When it comes down to it the game suffered from to much focus on one profession alpha or not that is a bad plain. More places to to go to and things to do or fight over would have been far better.
Yes would have been nice to fix bugs but I will be honest be so long since I played I can not remeber most of them. Then again I played a wookiee and never had to deal with armor bugs. Once the cu was pushed live I mostly loged in to chat and being a Mch/MTKA did not have to deal with armor then with the nice natrual armor from tka. Jedi might have worked if released say at this point of the game life after the orginal system had been polished.
I do not think jedi should have been in the game I played KoToR for jedi play. Like the NGE though jedi might have worked if added at a different time and after most of the bugs have been repaired. I understand I am in the minority which is fine. I believe I was in the other profession it felt like just as many people hated was in the game Master Creature Handler. I had fun playing from July 5,03 till the realese of CU and tried to have fun again till the NGE.
Ugh sorry tired and I am starting to make less sense sorry about that. Jedi might have worked only if they had finshed polishing the base game in my point of view. Then again my point view problay sucks since I had fun sneaking around on dath trying to tame maulers near the imperial prison
I totally understand why the vets are still angry.
I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good.
They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens.
If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities.
On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
Actually, I'm mad that Jedi were ever introduced to fuck this game up. What an amazing game this was when it came out, now it is a shadow of its former self. All because of Jedi and bad Live designers. I'm a Star Wars fan first and foremost, so the introduction of Jedi in a period where there were only THREE was pretty annoying.
Jedi were imbalanced and it didn't many the 2 years you spent to obtain all that, I obtained the same results within months. It wasn't hard. This isn't the point though. Hopefully if Bioware is making a KOTOR game we can all just finally enjoy a Jedi oriented game where we won't be nerfed or balanced to be on par with non-force sensitive classes.
I can see your point but, he he, I still think it's wrong.
I do believe, that properly handled, an Alpha Profession could have worked much, much better.
There were plenty of solutions that SOE could have considered rather than simply 'nerf'' jedi because non-jedi weren't willing to reconfigure their templates into jedi-beating specs (and there were plenty of them).
Option 1 - Take Jedi out of the W and put them in their own Lightside vs Sith War
Option 2 - add other competitive alpha classes alongside jied - from Emperor's Hands to Antaran Rangers to Nightsisters to Royal Guards thus turning the game from a two-tiered combat system to a three-tiered one.
I am sure that anyone who doesn't like the 'hard earned alpha class' idea can pick holes with both these options but at least these options are more imaginative, constructive and positive than the solution that SOE did come up with at the behest of those who didn't want to be and couldn't fight jedi.
See for me I thought the war in SWG was between rebels and imperials. Yes it is a dead horse but the time frame there were few jedi. They never could add war into the game between rebels and imperials because they were wasteing time on a alpha class. The only way said class could work is if the rest of the game has a way for people to feel like they are truly fighting in a war between rebels and imperials.
A sub conflect between force users with lightsabers should have been like iceing on a cake. Instead the way they did it was added icing on top of uncooked and unmixed cake. I still rember a list of new dungons they were going to add after the vette and death watch bunker. When it comes down to it the game suffered from to much focus on one profession alpha or not that is a bad plain. More places to to go to and things to do or fight over would have been far better.
Yes would have been nice to fix bugs but I will be honest be so long since I played I can not remeber most of them. Then again I played a wookiee and never had to deal with armor bugs. Once the cu was pushed live I mostly loged in to chat and being a Mch/MTKA did not have to deal with armor then with the nice natrual armor from tka. Jedi might have worked if released say at this point of the game life after the orginal system had been polished.
I do not think jedi should have been in the game I played KoToR for jedi play. Like the NGE though jedi might have worked if added at a different time and after most of the bugs have been repaired. I understand I am in the minority which is fine. I believe I was in the other profession it felt like just as many people hated was in the game Master Creature Handler. I had fun playing from July 5,03 till the realese of CU and tried to have fun again till the NGE.
Ugh sorry tired and I am starting to make less sense sorry about that. Jedi might have worked only if they had finshed polishing the base game in my point of view. Then again my point view problay sucks since I had fun sneaking around on dath trying to tame maulers near the imperial prison
Man, you have to understand that in terms of the game this kind of reasoning is pure theological pedantry. It means nothing at all except to a few purists. What we're discussing here is the experience of the game and how it should have been engineered to aleviate playability problems.
I totally understand why the vets are still angry. I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good. They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens. If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities. On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I always remember Jedi's being a rare sight, there wasn't that many around when I played on the Ahazi server. It was always cool seeing one (usually in a spaceport). See them fighting and such. They were kind of like celebrities but they at to sadly make Jedi a profession which destroyed it. I always liked it when they made people work if they wanted to be a jedi. Took a lot of time to master and even gain. Sadly I'm guessing theres quite a few Jedi's about nowadays
Sad really. But whatever is said I don't think anyone will forgive $OE.
As for WoW, sorry but couldn't see why everyone went mad for that game. Way to linear, telling you how to play the game. Plus in my time playing SWG (around a uear and 3 months) I never met one immature player, but playing WoW the game was full of them. Destroyed the experience in many ways.
I still think the game as some of it's past charm, just much harder to find and depends on having a good social network ingame.
Originally posted by hubertgrove Originally posted by Kravis I totally understand why the vets are still angry. I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good. They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens. If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities. On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes. I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
I totally understand why the vets are still angry.
I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good.
They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens.
If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities.
On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
Not two weeks afetr the launch of the CU but two weeks after the launch of the NGE. That's what this thread is about. The NGE.
And, yes, if someone lies to me, I call them a liar. The only Mod who has ever done that to me was on the SOE boards. Ask a few other vets about the standard and honesty of SOE board moderators. Meantime, I hope those on 'Posi' are more oriented to helping the customer and telling them the truth.
Originally posted by hubertgrove Originally posted by Kravis
Originally posted by hubertgrove
Originally posted by Kravis
I totally understand why the vets are still angry. I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good. They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens. If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities. On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes. I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
Not two weeks afetr the launch of the CU but two weeks after the launch of the NGE. That's what this thread is about. The NGE. And, yes, if someone lies to me, I call them a liar. The only Mod who has ever done that to me was on the SOE boards. Ask a few other vets about the standard and honesty of SOE board moderators. Meantime, I hope those on 'Posi' are more oriented to helping the customer and telling them the truth.
Ok, that was my point however. There is a new group in place so why don't you judge how the current team performs and not base it off what a past teams accomplishments? It is under new leadership now and from what I gather communication is at an all time high. Judge for yourself, subscribe to the SWG Dev tracker.
I will also stand by other statement, don't expect to walk into an MMO's forums and "insult" the developers and not expect a response. I know many people feel "I am the customer I am entitled", actually your not entitled to be abusive. Funny how people scream the "devs don't listen" but then you see the manner in which they post ideas and criticisms you can't help but laugh. I am not saying that is your case because I don't know exactly what you wrote. I know some board mods get a bit ban happy and SOE is no exception. I know I have put up some threads that they probably didn't like regarding their spotty past but they never banned me or deleted the threads. As for the "Posi" reference, that's Positron (Lead Game Designer) for COH/COV@Cryptic/NCSoft for anyone who didn't get it.
Um most who played as a Jedi would disagree...We had a balance bar called force, and at one time a risk system that kept us in check..Jedi were hidden pre9 for the most part but due to all the cries and whines most of the risk system was revamped poorly.But in reality Jedi were very good vs range and meh vs melee..Was reallt based on the player some excelled while others couldnt grasp their abilities. As with all this talk of imbalance you had to think about what was in place at certain points in SWG..When the Risk was removed Jedi flourished but still balanced within the system itself.A good player could whipe a jedi out in no time cause they out lasted his/her force bar..I learned to play in each system adjusting my pvp toons accordingly.Sadly most just complained about things that had a strength and weakness built into each build.. SOE could never get the right risk system without nerfing/unnerfing the wrong things..The system was fine just how it was implemented over and over and over changing monthly is were it went wrong..Dont blame the System blame the systems Devs, they broke it not the player base..
QFT!
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Um most who played as a Jedi would disagree...We had a balance bar called force, and at one time a risk system that kept us in check..Jedi were hidden pre9 for the most part but due to all the cries and whines most of the risk system was revamped poorly.But in reality Jedi were very good vs range and meh vs melee..Was reallt based on the player some excelled while others couldnt grasp their abilities. As with all this talk of imbalance you had to think about what was in place at certain points in SWG..When the Risk was removed Jedi flourished but still balanced within the system itself.A good player could whipe a jedi out in no time cause they out lasted his/her force bar..I learned to play in each system adjusting my pvp toons accordingly.Sadly most just complained about things that had a strength and weakness built into each build.. SOE could never get the right risk system without nerfing/unnerfing the wrong things..The system was fine just how it was implemented over and over and over changing monthly is were it went wrong..Dont blame the System blame the systems Devs, they broke it not the player base..
QFT!
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Again why the system was fine with its built in Risk/strength-weakness system..Problem was the so called gimped builds would rock in the hands of a player who took time to learn what he/she could and couldnt do. That system was well balanced if you looked past the bugs and many broken specials.Problem i had with the whole thing was the fact that Jedi were suppose to be badasses.No other Star Wars game ever made them as weak as SOE did..Well till they removed the risk systems and added the NGE to satisfy the loot click click crowd..
Most of us love the lore and look and the neat things a Jedi was suppose to represent..For me it wasnt leetness or whatever cool kiddie phrase is out now.It was about accomplishments and having something i felt i worked towards.Granted the system would change as soon as we all got used to it.Fact is what was wrong with Jedi being powerfull? So how many norm toons before jedi were nerfed because a few claimed they were unbeatable?? OMG i can name several, the top one being CM...CM was so easy to counter it wasnt funny they had like 0 defense and DOC in your build pretty much nerfed em.But yeat so many cried they couldnt beat them with their chosen build..
So when all that complain about balance actually want their inability to be compensated by destroying someone elses player toon.Granted it sucked to lose but isnt that part of the challenge? Trying to beat the best of the best? I mean common people play games to do things they cant do in real life..Escape reality by creating a new world to unwind and kick ass..Everyone was given the tools in SWG to be the best. Jedi had to be the most nerfed underfed profession in SWG besides BH..
I really dont understand why anyone would want to play something were they are just like everyone else..Whats the fun in being average? Whats the fun in having no challenge to be better than the next player? Well there are tons of time sinks that offer that very thing..For me it kills me when people start screaming Jedi were Alpha and classes like that dont belong in a MMO.Well whiners and people wanting vanila unchallenging games dont belong in MMO's..They belong in Sims online were combat dont exsist..Cause anyone that just wants to be merely average in a game sure as hell dont belong in MMO games were the unblance/balance part is the persons behind the keyboards.
Just remember no matter how equal a game is noone can balance the players behind the keyboards..Some people even with the so called alpha classes were so bad that it was comical..Dont scream nerf when you lose learn from it and get better at it..Cause thanks to all the waaaaaaaahbulance chasers games are getting dumbed down for no reason..Well when they make in game tissues to hand out to dry up all those tears LMK..
Um most who played as a Jedi would disagree...We had a balance bar called force, and at one time a risk system that kept us in check..Jedi were hidden pre9 for the most part but due to all the cries and whines most of the risk system was revamped poorly.But in reality Jedi were very good vs range and meh vs melee..Was reallt based on the player some excelled while others couldnt grasp their abilities. As with all this talk of imbalance you had to think about what was in place at certain points in SWG..When the Risk was removed Jedi flourished but still balanced within the system itself.A good player could whipe a jedi out in no time cause they out lasted his/her force bar..I learned to play in each system adjusting my pvp toons accordingly.Sadly most just complained about things that had a strength and weakness built into each build.. SOE could never get the right risk system without nerfing/unnerfing the wrong things..The system was fine just how it was implemented over and over and over changing monthly is were it went wrong..Dont blame the System blame the systems Devs, they broke it not the player base..
QFT!
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Again why the system was fine with its built in Risk/strength-weakness system..Problem was the so called gimped builds would rock in the hands of a player who took time to learn what he/she could and couldnt do. That system was well balanced if you looked past the bugs and many broken specials.Problem i had with the whole thing was the fact that Jedi were suppose to be badasses.No other Star Wars game ever made them as weak as SOE did..Well till they removed the risk systems and added the NGE to satisfy the loot click click crowd..
Most of us love the lore and look and the neat things a Jedi was suppose to represent..For me it wasnt leetness or whatever cool kiddie phrase is out now.It was about accomplishments and having something i felt i worked towards.Granted the system would change as soon as we all got used to it.Fact is what was wrong with Jedi being powerfull? So how many norm toons before jedi were nerfed because a few claimed they were unbeatable?? OMG i can name several, the top one being CM...CM was so easy to counter it wasnt funny they had like 0 defense and DOC in your build pretty much nerfed em.But yeat so many cried they couldnt beat them with their chosen build..
So when all that complain about balance actually want their inability to be compensated by destroying someone elses player toon.Granted it sucked to lose but isnt that part of the challenge? Trying to beat the best of the best? I mean common people play games to do things they cant do in real life..Escape reality by creating a new world to unwind and kick ass..Everyone was given the tools in SWG to be the best. Jedi had to be the most nerfed underfed profession in SWG besides BH..
I really dont understand why anyone would want to play something were they are just like everyone else..Whats the fun in being average? Whats the fun in having no challenge to be better than the next player? Well there are tons of time sinks that offer that very thing..For me it kills me when people start screaming Jedi were Alpha and classes like that dont belong in a MMO.Well whiners and people wanting vanila unchallenging games dont belong in MMO's..They belong in Sims online were combat dont exsist..Cause anyone that just wants to be merely average in a game sure as hell dont belong in MMO games were the unblance/balance part is the persons behind the keyboards.
Just remember no matter how equal a game is noone can balance the players behind the keyboards..Some people even with the so called alpha classes were so bad that it was comical..Dont scream nerf when you lose learn from it and get better at it..Cause thanks to all the waaaaaaaahbulance chasers games are getting dumbed down for no reason..Well when they make in game tissues to hand out to dry up all those tears LMK..
Bout to worship the ground you walk on. I used to remember everyone whining how they couldn't take me out as a CM. When the SK boys went to PvP, we never had a problem with enemy CM's. I played that profession a ton (was also a crafting CM, one of the few on Eclipse), but I also knew it inside and out, all of its strengths and weaknesses. I used those to stay alive (when I wasn't just suicidial which a few times I did do as a brilliant decoy), and I showed our guildmates how to take down a CM. While nobody liked pvp'ing with a carbineer, if you had one on your side, you were unstoppable if he knew what he was doing. Carbineer applies states and KD, I dot him and start plunking him with the rifle from 58m away (had to make the posions a little special, since the default range you bought from vendors was 54m), their CM was dead. Since everyone relied on the CM to apply uberdotzlolz, once he was dead, so was their PvP squad. During the battle, he was also camped. Once the battle ended, he was allowed a rez, with the understanding one false move and we would grief him to oblivion. Many times numerically superior forces would retreat because they didn't have that CM. Meanwhile if i did use my dots, I had priorities assigned to targets.
In short, there were some pretty easy workarounds if you knew what you were doing. The only problem was that 550 mindfire pikes were way too common, such weapons should've been a real rarity, and PvP wouldn't have been the mindfire wars. (Since lets be real, the people who whined about balance were whining about PvP balance, not PvE.)
Comments
I can see your point but, he he, I still think it's wrong.
I do believe, that properly handled, an Alpha Profession could have worked much, much better.
There were plenty of solutions that SOE could have considered rather than simply 'nerf'' jedi because non-jedi weren't willing to reconfigure their templates into jedi-beating specs (and there were plenty of them).
Option 1 - Take Jedi out of the W and put them in their own Lightside vs Sith War
Option 2 - add other competitive alpha classes alongside jied - from Emperor's Hands to Antaran Rangers to Nightsisters to Royal Guards thus turning the game from a two-tiered combat system to a three-tiered one.
I am sure that anyone who doesn't like the 'hard earned alpha class' idea can pick holes with both these options but at least these options are more imaginative, constructive and positive than the solution that SOE did come up with at the behest of those who didn't want to be and couldn't fight jedi.
See for me I thought the war in SWG was between rebels and imperials. Yes it is a dead horse but the time frame there were few jedi. They never could add war into the game between rebels and imperials because they were wasteing time on a alpha class. The only way said class could work is if the rest of the game has a way for people to feel like they are truly fighting in a war between rebels and imperials.
A sub conflect between force users with lightsabers should have been like iceing on a cake. Instead the way they did it was added icing on top of uncooked and unmixed cake. I still rember a list of new dungons they were going to add after the vette and death watch bunker. When it comes down to it the game suffered from to much focus on one profession alpha or not that is a bad plain. More places to to go to and things to do or fight over would have been far better.
Yes would have been nice to fix bugs but I will be honest be so long since I played I can not remeber most of them. Then again I played a wookiee and never had to deal with armor bugs. Once the cu was pushed live I mostly loged in to chat and being a Mch/MTKA did not have to deal with armor then with the nice natrual armor from tka. Jedi might have worked if released say at this point of the game life after the orginal system had been polished.
I do not think jedi should have been in the game I played KoToR for jedi play. Like the NGE though jedi might have worked if added at a different time and after most of the bugs have been repaired. I understand I am in the minority which is fine. I believe I was in the other profession it felt like just as many people hated was in the game Master Creature Handler. I had fun playing from July 5,03 till the realese of CU and tried to have fun again till the NGE.
Ugh sorry tired and I am starting to make less sense sorry about that. Jedi might have worked only if they had finshed polishing the base game in my point of view. Then again my point view problay sucks since I had fun sneaking around on dath trying to tame maulers near the imperial prison
I totally understand why the vets are still angry.
I personally like the game because even in what you may feel is a "gimped" version of the original it still has more depth then many other games. I like the current dev team and I think they are going to roll out more Expertise, like BM, in the future. Will it be the old profession system? No, but it will allow more choice and character diversification which is always good.
They are communicating with the community and more importantly they are implementing these ideas. I am a hardcore COH/COV fan but in the last few months I have been more impressed with the SWG dev team then any other I have followed in the MMO genre. Is it to late? Perhaps but I am willing to see what happens.
If your ever cared about this game now is the time to get back over to the official forums and voice your opinions, they are listening. Just be smart about it, they are not going to read a bunch of "PRE-CU" rants. You need to find the things you like most in the old game and press to have them put back in the game. They have more space planned in Chapter 8 and I know for myself I am pressing hard for dockable capitol ships. If we get enough people asking I believe we can implement this and if not they will explain why and it's up to the community to find common ground with the dev team capabilities.
On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to help guide a company that screwed me either. I really wish there was some common ground that the SOE/LA and Vets can meet on but without a classic server I don't see widespread acceptance by Vets. Even with a classic server I doubt it would carry the subs it once had, the majority have simply moved on.
I can see your point but, he he, I still think it's wrong.
I do believe, that properly handled, an Alpha Profession could have worked much, much better.
There were plenty of solutions that SOE could have considered rather than simply 'nerf'' jedi because non-jedi weren't willing to reconfigure their templates into jedi-beating specs (and there were plenty of them).
Option 1 - Take Jedi out of the W and put them in their own Lightside vs Sith War
Option 2 - add other competitive alpha classes alongside jied - from Emperor's Hands to Antaran Rangers to Nightsisters to Royal Guards thus turning the game from a two-tiered combat system to a three-tiered one.
I am sure that anyone who doesn't like the 'hard earned alpha class' idea can pick holes with both these options but at least these options are more imaginative, constructive and positive than the solution that SOE did come up with at the behest of those who didn't want to be and couldn't fight jedi.
See for me I thought the war in SWG was between rebels and imperials. Yes it is a dead horse but the time frame there were few jedi. They never could add war into the game between rebels and imperials because they were wasteing time on a alpha class. The only way said class could work is if the rest of the game has a way for people to feel like they are truly fighting in a war between rebels and imperials.
A sub conflect between force users with lightsabers should have been like iceing on a cake. Instead the way they did it was added icing on top of uncooked and unmixed cake. I still rember a list of new dungons they were going to add after the vette and death watch bunker. When it comes down to it the game suffered from to much focus on one profession alpha or not that is a bad plain. More places to to go to and things to do or fight over would have been far better.
Yes would have been nice to fix bugs but I will be honest be so long since I played I can not remeber most of them. Then again I played a wookiee and never had to deal with armor bugs. Once the cu was pushed live I mostly loged in to chat and being a Mch/MTKA did not have to deal with armor then with the nice natrual armor from tka. Jedi might have worked if released say at this point of the game life after the orginal system had been polished.
I do not think jedi should have been in the game I played KoToR for jedi play. Like the NGE though jedi might have worked if added at a different time and after most of the bugs have been repaired. I understand I am in the minority which is fine. I believe I was in the other profession it felt like just as many people hated was in the game Master Creature Handler. I had fun playing from July 5,03 till the realese of CU and tried to have fun again till the NGE.
Ugh sorry tired and I am starting to make less sense sorry about that. Jedi might have worked only if they had finshed polishing the base game in my point of view. Then again my point view problay sucks since I had fun sneaking around on dath trying to tame maulers near the imperial prison
Man, you have to understand that in terms of the game this kind of reasoning is pure theological pedantry. It means nothing at all except to a few purists. What we're discussing here is the experience of the game and how it should have been engineered to aleviate playability problems.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
Sad really. But whatever is said I don't think anyone will forgive $OE.
As for WoW, sorry but couldn't see why everyone went mad for that game. Way to linear, telling you how to play the game. Plus in my time playing SWG (around a uear and 3 months) I never met one immature player, but playing WoW the game was full of them. Destroyed the experience in many ways.
I still think the game as some of it's past charm, just much harder to find and depends on having a good social network ingame.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
Not two weeks afetr the launch of the CU but two weeks after the launch of the NGE. That's what this thread is about. The NGE.
And, yes, if someone lies to me, I call them a liar. The only Mod who has ever done that to me was on the SOE boards. Ask a few other vets about the standard and honesty of SOE board moderators. Meantime, I hope those on 'Posi' are more oriented to helping the customer and telling them the truth.
No, I am afraid they are not 'listening'. Certainly not to me. I was perma-banned from the forums two weeks after launch for calling Garva a liar when he told us that the SOE polls showed an overwhelming support for the new changes.
I agree with you that many Vets have moved on - I am a CoV afficiando myself but that doesn't mean we don't drop in to game, industry and review sites from time to time to remind people how poorly SOE have handled a once great game and to lobby potential players to stay away from what replaced it.
I am confused, two weeks after the CU? If that is the case, please correct me if I misunderstood, we have a new dev team in place now. I don't think a team in place back then should be the gauge in which we judge this team. On a another note, do you know any MMO in development that will allow you to enter their forums and openly insult Devs? If you pulled that on Posi I am pretty sure LH or someone else would hit you with a ban stick over at NCSoft.
Not two weeks afetr the launch of the CU but two weeks after the launch of the NGE. That's what this thread is about. The NGE.
And, yes, if someone lies to me, I call them a liar. The only Mod who has ever done that to me was on the SOE boards. Ask a few other vets about the standard and honesty of SOE board moderators. Meantime, I hope those on 'Posi' are more oriented to helping the customer and telling them the truth.
Ok, that was my point however. There is a new group in place so why don't you judge how the current team performs and not base it off what a past teams accomplishments? It is under new leadership now and from what I gather communication is at an all time high. Judge for yourself, subscribe to the SWG Dev tracker.
I will also stand by other statement, don't expect to walk into an MMO's forums and "insult" the developers and not expect a response. I know many people feel "I am the customer I am entitled", actually your not entitled to be abusive. Funny how people scream the "devs don't listen" but then you see the manner in which they post ideas and criticisms you can't help but laugh. I am not saying that is your case because I don't know exactly what you wrote. I know some board mods get a bit ban happy and SOE is no exception. I know I have put up some threads that they probably didn't like regarding their spotty past but they never banned me or deleted the threads. As for the "Posi" reference, that's Positron (Lead Game Designer) for COH/COV@Cryptic/NCSoft for anyone who didn't get it.
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Again why the system was fine with its built in Risk/strength-weakness system..Problem was the so called gimped builds would rock in the hands of a player who took time to learn what he/she could and couldnt do. That system was well balanced if you looked past the bugs and many broken specials.Problem i had with the whole thing was the fact that Jedi were suppose to be badasses.No other Star Wars game ever made them as weak as SOE did..Well till they removed the risk systems and added the NGE to satisfy the loot click click crowd..
Most of us love the lore and look and the neat things a Jedi was suppose to represent..For me it wasnt leetness or whatever cool kiddie phrase is out now.It was about accomplishments and having something i felt i worked towards.Granted the system would change as soon as we all got used to it.Fact is what was wrong with Jedi being powerfull? So how many norm toons before jedi were nerfed because a few claimed they were unbeatable?? OMG i can name several, the top one being CM...CM was so easy to counter it wasnt funny they had like 0 defense and DOC in your build pretty much nerfed em.But yeat so many cried they couldnt beat them with their chosen build..
So when all that complain about balance actually want their inability to be compensated by destroying someone elses player toon.Granted it sucked to lose but isnt that part of the challenge? Trying to beat the best of the best? I mean common people play games to do things they cant do in real life..Escape reality by creating a new world to unwind and kick ass..Everyone was given the tools in SWG to be the best. Jedi had to be the most nerfed underfed profession in SWG besides BH..
I really dont understand why anyone would want to play something were they are just like everyone else..Whats the fun in being average? Whats the fun in having no challenge to be better than the next player? Well there are tons of time sinks that offer that very thing..For me it kills me when people start screaming Jedi were Alpha and classes like that dont belong in a MMO.Well whiners and people wanting vanila unchallenging games dont belong in MMO's..They belong in Sims online were combat dont exsist..Cause anyone that just wants to be merely average in a game sure as hell dont belong in MMO games were the unblance/balance part is the persons behind the keyboards.
Just remember no matter how equal a game is noone can balance the players behind the keyboards..Some people even with the so called alpha classes were so bad that it was comical..Dont scream nerf when you lose learn from it and get better at it..Cause thanks to all the waaaaaaaahbulance chasers games are getting dumbed down for no reason..Well when they make in game tissues to hand out to dry up all those tears LMK..
Jedi were brilliantly balanced, and my first encounters with them were fairly exhilarating. Quite a few ran away from me and forced me to chase them all over the map. Once everyone and their mother was a jedi (eg, "Jedi Kooshball") they really lost their luster.
I was also able to kill a multitude of people with my semi-stacked smuggler combo. Perhaps the most gimped "combat" profession in the game made viable by skillful play, decent gear, and template flexibility.
I still remember the honor I viewed it when I met my first Jedi Knight well before pub 9. When our guildmaster ascended to the rank of Jedi Knight (again a good deal before pre-pub 9) the mere fact that our leader was a Jedi caused our guild to acquire some serious PvP hitters. Said it before on here thousands of times, will say it again.
PUBLISH 9 IS WHAT KILLED THIS GAME. We had our fears, but the game persisted, thanks to the fact that the mechanics hadn't been fully altered yet. However, the writing was on the wall, once it became the "in" idea to let everyone be Jedi. Eventually the l33t speekers would demand they don't have to work to become Jedi, and this became the NGE. When the CU came along, it wasn't raelized how bad of shape SWG was in, the NGE was the last chance to save SWG, SOE rolled the dice, and failed miserably.
Again why the system was fine with its built in Risk/strength-weakness system..Problem was the so called gimped builds would rock in the hands of a player who took time to learn what he/she could and couldnt do. That system was well balanced if you looked past the bugs and many broken specials.Problem i had with the whole thing was the fact that Jedi were suppose to be badasses.No other Star Wars game ever made them as weak as SOE did..Well till they removed the risk systems and added the NGE to satisfy the loot click click crowd..
Most of us love the lore and look and the neat things a Jedi was suppose to represent..For me it wasnt leetness or whatever cool kiddie phrase is out now.It was about accomplishments and having something i felt i worked towards.Granted the system would change as soon as we all got used to it.Fact is what was wrong with Jedi being powerfull? So how many norm toons before jedi were nerfed because a few claimed they were unbeatable?? OMG i can name several, the top one being CM...CM was so easy to counter it wasnt funny they had like 0 defense and DOC in your build pretty much nerfed em.But yeat so many cried they couldnt beat them with their chosen build..
So when all that complain about balance actually want their inability to be compensated by destroying someone elses player toon.Granted it sucked to lose but isnt that part of the challenge? Trying to beat the best of the best? I mean common people play games to do things they cant do in real life..Escape reality by creating a new world to unwind and kick ass..Everyone was given the tools in SWG to be the best. Jedi had to be the most nerfed underfed profession in SWG besides BH..
I really dont understand why anyone would want to play something were they are just like everyone else..Whats the fun in being average? Whats the fun in having no challenge to be better than the next player? Well there are tons of time sinks that offer that very thing..For me it kills me when people start screaming Jedi were Alpha and classes like that dont belong in a MMO.Well whiners and people wanting vanila unchallenging games dont belong in MMO's..They belong in Sims online were combat dont exsist..Cause anyone that just wants to be merely average in a game sure as hell dont belong in MMO games were the unblance/balance part is the persons behind the keyboards.
Just remember no matter how equal a game is noone can balance the players behind the keyboards..Some people even with the so called alpha classes were so bad that it was comical..Dont scream nerf when you lose learn from it and get better at it..Cause thanks to all the waaaaaaaahbulance chasers games are getting dumbed down for no reason..Well when they make in game tissues to hand out to dry up all those tears LMK..
Bout to worship the ground you walk on. I used to remember everyone whining how they couldn't take me out as a CM. When the SK boys went to PvP, we never had a problem with enemy CM's. I played that profession a ton (was also a crafting CM, one of the few on Eclipse), but I also knew it inside and out, all of its strengths and weaknesses. I used those to stay alive (when I wasn't just suicidial which a few times I did do as a brilliant decoy), and I showed our guildmates how to take down a CM. While nobody liked pvp'ing with a carbineer, if you had one on your side, you were unstoppable if he knew what he was doing. Carbineer applies states and KD, I dot him and start plunking him with the rifle from 58m away (had to make the posions a little special, since the default range you bought from vendors was 54m), their CM was dead. Since everyone relied on the CM to apply uberdotzlolz, once he was dead, so was their PvP squad. During the battle, he was also camped. Once the battle ended, he was allowed a rez, with the understanding one false move and we would grief him to oblivion. Many times numerically superior forces would retreat because they didn't have that CM. Meanwhile if i did use my dots, I had priorities assigned to targets.
In short, there were some pretty easy workarounds if you knew what you were doing. The only problem was that 550 mindfire pikes were way too common, such weapons should've been a real rarity, and PvP wouldn't have been the mindfire wars. (Since lets be real, the people who whined about balance were whining about PvP balance, not PvE.)