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So what if their attempts to balance Chaos vs Order failed?
mutantmagnet
Member Posts: 274
If Mythic decided to forget about trying to fix population issues between two factions and instead released an expansion that created a third faction that would have conflict with both sides; would you be interested in playing a third faction made up of let's say the Undead, Skaven and Ogres?
Comments
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
Well I was thinking more along the lines of Beastmen, Skaven and Ogres because that would make sense. As I understand it the Ogres essentially can cooperate with any of the races but have greater tendency lending assistance to chaos like factions. The Skaven themselves do their best to ensure the other races regard them as beastmen to hide their identity while they work to bring about their destruction. The beastmen are simply hated by practically everyone.
So GW could adopt an idea where the Skaven in their biggest push for power make a portion of the beastmen stronger to hide their activities. This alliance of convience is extended to the Ogres who simply need to be promised they'll get lots of gold and food for assisting the beastmen.
My only problem with that is I doubt many would be thrilled with playing the Skaven or more importantly the beastmen. Races like the undead are far more popular.
Still I'm just speculating whether or not Mythic would consider creating a third faction since it worked so well in their last game.
A neutral patchwork faction? I honestly don't think it would work. A neutral faction would be at serious risk of being constantly overwhelmed by players from both Chaos & Order factions. I think it's safe to say that if a new playable race finds its way into the game you can bet it will have it's Chaos/Order counterpart included as well.
To paraphrase Paul Barnett from an interview he gave last year, "No matter how much trouble you go to creating cool races like orks, dwarves, goblins, etc. and the mythos behind each of them most people prefer to play humans or similar races of the attractive persuasion (i.e. elves)."
Basically Mythic acknowledges there may be faction balance issues and is taking measures to address them. The biggest and most obvious measure implemented by Mythic is the huge emphasis placed on instanced scenarios which, according to one of the official WAR podcasts, grant the most victory points out of all the pvp/rvr venues. Obviously Battlegrounds and Skirmishes (incidental pvp) will be the most problematic as those take place on the world map where AI controlled Dogs of War allies won't be a factor. If population imbalance proves to be an even bigger issue than Mythic anticipated I wouldn't be surprised if they; 1) grant even more VIctory Points to instanced scenarios and/or 2) lessen the importance of the existing Battlegrounds and add more instanced scenarios to compensate.
The Skaven are simply too cool and nasty to be overlooked in an expansion. Nasty, furry, diseased little bast--ds running around wreaking havoc. Add to the mix the possibility of vast underground battles and the Skaven are too much fun to not make the cut. Sign me up! If the Skaven become a playable race I think it's safe to say the Lizardmen would be the only logical race to counter them. Both races already have a long history of conflict and both spend most of their time underground.
I think it's more realistic to expect Wood Elves or Bretonnians vs. Beastmen or Ogres (or Tomb Kings) to make the cut as the first new playable races instead of Skaven or Lizardmen. However I think the cool & unique factor regarding Skaven vs. Lizardmen is off the scale compared to the other ones I listed.
Mythic has historicaly made swift and vast changes for the sake of pvp balance. I wouldnt worry about them FAILING at tha ballance of a 2sided game when they had 5 years of priod knowledge in doing something as hard as the balance of a THREE SIDED war in dark age of camelot.
its like wondering if your parents can raise a newborn child eventhough they just got finished raising your 5 year old tripplet sisters.
Furthermore it probably wouldn't fit into the lore which would be a big no no from Games Workshop if it didn't, who have a big say in the games development as far as i know.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
Lore be damned, races be damned. if you make a class sexy people will play it.
If you look at polls, most of them say that the least played race will be dwarf.
I think this may have to do with why the Ironbreaker is the most powerful charachter in pvp combat....
A guy is better than me in RvR (or PvP) so the game is not balanced?
Know your class and know your role. Know your weaknesses and strengths.
Every class goes down. Balanced or not.
Why all the hate for Dwarves? If WoW's racial populations are any indication then the Greenskins and Dwarf populations should be about equal. However the inclusion of Goblins could prove to be a wildcard variable here. Goblins are a unique race rarely seen or playable in crpgs and mmorpgs so their 'new and exotic' factor might tip the numbers game in favor of the Greenskins.
The Ironbreaker's unusual effectiveness is either a result of poorly played Orks or simply a class balance issue that will be worked out when the game is eventually released. There's no way Mythic is going to balance classes based on racial population projections, people will go apes--t and protest like mad if that happens.
Based on all the observations of the beta making the rounds at the various game days in Paris, Toronto & Atlanta it seems either the Orks need some boosts to their powers or the Dwarves need some penalties because in every single video of the Mourkain Temple scenario the Dwarves seem to dominate for no apparent reason. One class that definitely needs some nerfing is the Rune Priest, in every single video it utterly dominated combat.
I stand corrected. But which is sexier, Skaven or Lizardmen?
I stand corrected. But which is sexier, Skaven or Lizardmen?
Lizardmen.And if most the combat is going to be instanced, to fixed sized groups, then I want to play on the side that has the fewest players. I remember in WOW when the horde could get into the BG's almost at will, while I stood around 20 minutes to an hour hoping to pvp.
But..if the best combat is going to be in the open world, then I'll roll with the side that has superior numbers..because they'll have a big advantage....
As to the idea of adding a 3rd realm, no, lets just try and get 2 correctly working.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That actually won't be as big of a problem. Any lack of numbers will be filled in with Dogs of War NPCs to keep both sides even in the instanced BGs. As to whether the DoW will be any good, that remains to be seen. But I doubt you will see WoW BG like lines trying to get into a WAR BG.
Also, i freaking hate balence. You should try to tweak classes to make them fall in line but they need not be equal. The important thign is that every class is effective at its job.
Populatiosn issues ... so what? Mid are always out numberd in daoc is seems but they still do well. Hopefully the game will be more about skill then numbers.
"Historically on almost any server the number of Mids was far overshadowed by the other two factions."
Yet as a mid i owned thid , lerivik, molivik, and took albs and hib relics. Maybe numbers are not the only and most important factor.
However, there were days more so before clustering were it was 3 vs 18 and well thats not fun.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Why all the hate for Dwarves? If WoW's racial populations are any indication then the Greenskins and Dwarf populations should be about equal. However the inclusion of Goblins could prove to be a wildcard variable here. Goblins are a unique race rarely seen or playable in crpgs and mmorpgs so their 'new and exotic' factor might tip the numbers game in favor of the Greenskins.
The Ironbreaker's unusual effectiveness is either a result of poorly played Orks or simply a class balance issue that will be worked out when the game is eventually released. There's no way Mythic is going to balance classes based on racial population projections, people will go apes--t and protest like mad if that happens.
Based on all the observations of the beta making the rounds at the various game days in Paris, Toronto & Atlanta it seems either the Orks need some boosts to their powers or the Dwarves need some penalties because in every single video of the Mourkain Temple scenario the Dwarves seem to dominate for no apparent reason. One class that definitely needs some nerfing is the Rune Priest, in every single video it utterly dominated combat.
Like I have said a million times, MMO universe did not begin with WoW.
If you make a race stats nice enough and make a class nice enough, people wont care what the looks are they will play it. Nobody plays dwarves in WoW, but in Dark age of camelot dwarves had the highest hp in the game so dwarven healer was highly common and you usually would never see a norseman healer. Same with dwarven tanks.
At game launch, midgard had no attractive classes. They where all highly basic... tank with shield, Healer that could heal but not buff, Light tank that could just hit people... very basic. So at launch midgard was underpopulared.
As the game advanced and people started playing together, they noticed the classes with less special abilities usually did their main ability better and thus where more effective.... so people started to migrate to midgard.
The races looked rugged and not cute, and the realm itself looked bleak and was always a pale snowcovered overcast day with no sun, basic log buildings with no stairs or doors, everything was made out of grey stone or brown logs and dirt covered. But people still played it because the classes where nice. Thats the bottom line, gamers are still gamers, so if you make all of the stats worth it people will play it!
No matter how good things look on paper, or how extensively you beta test a game the thruth is that once it goes retail and thousands start playing it, more and more things will appear that were not predicted or discovered.
This is why all companies use patches to constantly change small things that need addressing, ofcourse untill the first patch all players will have to live with the unbalancing issues that will exist, a fotm class will appear so will the oposite, the worst class, and things will stay like that untill the first patch comes, then the fotm class will change, sometimes on purpose in order to boost one class or faction, the worst may become the best and the best may just fall in mediocrity, and this will be the state untill the next patch comes, and so on so forth.
It has been like this in all mmoprgs from day one and it will continue to be like this i dare say forever, it is the best mechanic to deal with the fqact that it is humanly imposible to design the perfect balance, and computerly imposible to predict how humans will play.
All in all though no matter how hard or easy someone has it, balance no matter how horribly designed it is there is never a class imposible to play wow prooved this, good players will allways find the ways to take their character one step further and win even with the worst characters and bad players will continue losing even with the fotm classes.
As for the 3rd faction, who knows....all mmorpgs need major expansions at least once a year if not every 6 months as many games do, everything is possible as long as there is a team working on a full expansion fast and good, thankfully they have a plethora of options to add new content, races, classes in the future.
Never forget in love and War everything is allowed thats why they are fun, and like love War is most fun when it is not fair.
I'll probably end with the 4 classes
But personally, I don't think adding races would be a good idea.
Don't get me wrong, I like all the races, but I think that it would spread the game out too much. There's only so many players in a game, and with 8 races all fighting on different fronts, it may get spread too thin.
As for third faction, no thanks, It's not fun to get jumped by a third group from nowhere.