CCP Taking Isk from Players?

Ayeohx

My good friend recently started playing.  Right away he began working for a large corp and made loads of cash.  Within a month or two he had over half a billion isk.

He logged on one day to find that he could no longer receive or send isk from his account.  He received an email from CCP stating that his account was under review and he would recieve a ruling 72 hours later.  TEN DAYS LATER they had made their decision and left him with a measily 32 million.  Our whole corp, as well as the corp rep he was dealing with, was obviously pissed off.  My friend requested a Senior GM to deal with the situation but was denied.

What was more infuriating was that CCP referred to the section of the EULA that stated that they could basically do whatever they want to his characters since CCP actually owns all in game resources.  They basically told him "Screw you, it's ours and if we want to take it we can".

When I asked what was going on on CCP's forums others mentioned that CCP has done this to others' accounts mistaking them for "gold sellers" and not actually reviewing the cases.  Heck, even we can trace back where our isk comes from.  Evidently CCP doesn't care.

The result:

Our corp is closing.  At least 4 accounts are closing because of this, probably 6.  Once CCP's customer service pulls their heads out of their tails I may go back, till then our group of gamers are going elsewhere.

 

nakuma

please dude, I wouldnt even go back if i was wronged like that, just go to a different game. i feel ya pain though, id hang my hat up on eve if they pulled that shit on me if the way i earned my money was legit. CCP tends to do stupid shit randomly. overall the company isnt horrible,but they arent the shining light of integrity. they been known to pull some serious horse shit out their asses and treat their customers like crap. or merely helping/assisting players when they shouldnt. cough* BOB *cough comes to mind the list goes on, but so far i hvae yet to run into any real issues with CCP, ....for now.

nakuma

the funny thing is half a billion isk aint that much when u think about it. i made around 70 million isk under a 1 day. mining crokite and sharp crokite, took me 7 trips on m indie V but ended up making an easy 40 mill rom the processing alone :P the rest was pvp/pve rat junk/loot and salaving. so i can imagine making 500 mill isk in about 1-2 months. hell i make an easy 2.5 million isk + per belt in gem space on rats.keep cycling around belts you can make 20-30 million in a couple hours. not including the components and salavaged items. but then again if he just started playing makikng 500 mill is alot in 1-2 months.

emptyballoon

I doubt he was punished for ISK selling, this usually results in the banstick coming out.  It is far more likely that he was caught buying ISK.  In these cases the suspect ISK is just removed from the players account, it is lucky that he did not end up with a negative balance.

But if you have decided to go, post the GM mails.

 

Beltazore

Well I do know for sure that they keep "new" accounts under surveillance for any odd behaviour when it comes to isk transfers/balence.

LordVanidor

Your friend probably deserved to be banned. CCP cracks down really hard on people that buy isk, and its stupid to buy isk from other players when you can just buy a timecard and sell it for isk anyways.

PnHobbit

Buying isk, expensive.



Getting caught and complaining on the forums, priceless.

RAF-dood

Isn't it amazing how the Fanbois have turned this thread making the entire issue the OP's fault..... There was nothing in the OP's statement that would justify the actions taken by CCP but add a falsehood or two and they've made the OP into some kind of bot using Isk buying player without having any proof to back it up.

The end result is that CCP has lost another subscriber and in my opinion he'll be better off.

Moobkrad

I was thinking, if CCP was unfair like that. They would have Whip at me a long time ago. I tend to build up cash really fast in games. I always end up with positions as guild treasurer... but that's another story. On to the point, I bought a Raven BPO last week and in 2 more weeks I'll be able to buy the Abaddon BPO. I'm talking here of making between 900 mill to 1.2 bill isk in three weeks.



If CCP was really unfair, they would have crack down on me by now. Your friend might have bought isks, that is the only viable reason why CCP hit him hard.

Moobkrad

Originally posted by RAF-dood


Isn't it amazing how the Fanbois have turned this thread making the entire issue the OP's fault..... There was nothing in the OP's statement that would justify the actions taken by CCP but add a falsehood or two and they've made the OP into some kind of bot using Isk buying player without having any proof to back it up.
The end result is that CCP has lost another subscriber and in my opinion he'll be better off.

Is just a theory, not an actual accusation. Since we don't hold any facts. CCP is not that unfair on the opinions of many. For a fact we know that CCP won't go out of it's way to sanction a new player. Probably they were investigating the sender that sent the money to this new player and is a known isk seller. Probably he was being honest and got his money the right way and CCP just got jealous.



Who knows, we don't know the real facts. But the stronger theory is that this guy bought isks, and that's why CCP crack him down. After all, is well known that CCP cracks down hard on people that buy and sell isks.

Taram

Originally posted by Ayeohx


My good friend recently started playing.  Right away he began working for a large corp and made loads of cash.  Within a month or two he had over half a billion isk.
He logged on one day to find that he could no longer receive or send isk from his account.  He received an email from CCP stating that his account was under review and he would recieve a ruling 72 hours later.  TEN DAYS LATER they had made their decision and left him with a measily 32 million.  Our whole corp, as well as the corp rep he was dealing with, was obviously pissed off.  My friend requested a Senior GM to deal with the situation but was denied.
What was more infuriating was that CCP referred to the section of the EULA that stated that they could basically do whatever they want to his characters since CCP actually owns all in game resources.  They basically told him "Screw you, it's ours and if we want to take it we can".
When I asked what was going on on CCP's forums others mentioned that CCP has done this to others' accounts mistaking them for "gold sellers" and not actually reviewing the cases.  Heck, even we can trace back where our isk comes from.  Evidently CCP doesn't care.
The result:
Our corp is closing.  At least 4 accounts are closing because of this, probably 6.  Once CCP's customer service pulls their heads out of their tails I may go back, till then our group of gamers are going elsewhere.

I call BS.



CCP only does things like this in cases where players are suspected of buying ISK on Ebay from a re-seller.



Post the facts, not just your take on the matter please.  Otherwise I have to call BS.  My wife has made, in the past 2 months, over 700 million isk.   All of it from legitimate mining activity and working the market.  CCP hasn't even sniffted at her skirts, let alone revoked cash.  No, I suspect your friend was caught buying ISK for RL cash.  ISK transfers are very closely monitored, always, and on every account.



So... while I sympathize with you I'm not going to believe you till you post more than just a woe-is-me story.

Alverant

So how does CCP know who's buying/selling Isk? While we're only getting half the story it sounds to me like CCP suspected something, investigated, didn't come up with much, then took most of the Isk as a "you're being suspicious" fine. Not to be paranoid but how do we know the charges weren't created out of spite. Maybe the corp offended a dev player. Suddenly you're suspected of buying Isk and get your hard earned good yanked.

InsBrigand

we don't know nor are they obligated to reveal any of their findings. As for the "he might have offended a Dev player" i highly doubt that since due to the past issues the community had with some GMs, actions like "vendettas" as you put it are highly scrutinized and CCP knows that they cannot afford another scandal.



as for the OP, i feel that we are only getting a portion of the story therefore we aren't able to justifiably accuse either sides of wrongful actions. Thus so, if the OP choose not to have a senior GM look into his case, he and his friends are welcome to find better pastures.



as to the unfairness of CCP, i'm going into my 4th year with the live game (5+ with Alphas and betas) yet i've never fallen into investigations. I made 1 billion isk a day for weeks on end (tediously long hours of mining - 10 hour stretches - back when mining was worth it) and i've had stretches of time when my wallet never saw more than 1 million isk. With such massive influx of isk and frequent lack of it you'd think i would be the sort to have dealt with isk <> $$$ transactions but as i've stated earlier, never got looked at the wrong way.



so all in all and in classic EVE-esque quote, Can i have your stuff?

Ayeohx

I do not believe that my friend was buying isk.  We are big believers in not buying or selling isk.  We've watched too many game economies fall apart due to the ol "gold sellers" from FFXI and WoW days.  We wanted a game where the economy meant something.  And what game has a better ecomnomy than Eve?  (If you know tell me, still looking.)

I found it odd that the sources he got his money from (myself for at least 100 million for various ships and equipment & the corp member that he made the hauls for) were never investigated or questioned.  Just a very late "screw you" letter.

Eve is a good game and an even better experiment in online economy and PvP.  Its a shame that CCP is being erratic & unfair in their rulings.  I would still recommend Eve but with the warning that CCP is not trustworthy.

As for proof I don't have any.  I knew his financial situation.  I knew he did runs for the other corporation who extended the invitation to the rest of our corp members.  His income seemed legit.

It's perfectly fine not trusting me.  Others have had the same thing happen to them though.  When I initially posted a very rational version of this on Eve's forums I was told that others have had this happen to them.  Before the thread was locked down and a valid reply was deleted of course.  I am only wanting to let others know what is going on. 

For those that continue playing enjoy.  Its a good game.  If something like this happens immediately ask for a Senior GM to review the case (even though my friend was denied).

 

Ayeohx

And nope, it's all mine.  Who knows, when CCP screws up enough and gets bought out I may join back up. 

Ciredric

Ah the disclaimer of innocence.  I think you left out a few facts, like he was most probably cheating.

I really find your story unbelievable.  My guess is your friend was buying isk on the side.  CCP would not flag his account just for accumulating money.  

Gamrag

I got a second account recently and dumped over 2 billion isk into the wallet of an alt. One day old newbie character had 2 billion and nothing ever happened. CCP doesn't ban people for having isk.



They will take action if you buy isk. I've noticed that in the past couple of days in the log in window, there is warning to isk buyers. Guess they've taken some action recently.



What I don't understand is why people buy isk. There are gtcs available. All legal.

Ayeohx

Left out a few facts?  As in lying?  No.  My friend?  Possibly.  But doubtful based on the what was brought to me.  I know what he was doing and how he worked for his isk.

You can decide that he was buying isk and move on and forget if you wish.  Or you could keep in mind that maybe, just maybe that a customer was faulted and CCP screwed him.  And then refused to have a senior GM look into it further.  You're call.  I'm not here to sway you or argue the facts.  I'm here to let you know what happened, what to expect and how to handle it (you can try to get a senior gm to investigate the situation further but they don't seem likely to do so these days).

Aedosen

Originally posted by Gamrag

I got a second account recently and dumped over 2 billion isk into the wallet of an alt. One day old newbie character had 2 billion and nothing ever happened. CCP doesn't ban people for having isk.



They will take action if you buy isk. I've noticed that in the past couple of days in the log in window, there is warning to isk buyers. Guess they've taken some action recently.



What I don't understand is why people buy isk. There are gtcs available. All legal.

Yep my alts wallet has grown exponentially in the last few months(couple billion there now) and still have all my isk. Anyway as much people like to bash CCP I still rather trust them with all their tools avaible for tracking things such as illegal isk selling, than a friend of someone of whose doing´s he really has no better info than what that said friend has told him.

Mcgreag

There is a possibility that he where not doing anything wrong but the people he dealt with, that the isk he got was illegal isk just laundered 2-3 steps. The fact that he was not banned or even got a warning (at least from what you are saying) but lost his isk seems to indicate that.

CCP removes isk that is illegally made even if it's a few chars down the transaction path, this might seem harsh but imagine if they didn't do it. In that case the isk buyers/sellers could easily launder their isk by passing it through the hands of a few other chars.

Ayeohx

That would make sense.  He got a good amount of money to do what he was doing.  Not only was he making standard hauling runs but they used him as a decoy to attract pirates.  He was going to try to get me into this whole hauling/decoy thing, I'm glad I didn't agree to it.  Oh well, see you guys in the next mmorpg. 

demolishIX

Your friend probably was payed with isk bought with real money,CCP tryes to eliminate illegal isk selling in Eve by adding GTC trade for isk they eliminated quite abit of the illegalities,but some people still buy large ammounts of isk.People that buy alot of isk online usualy buy a 2nd eve account and then start laundering the money in a attempt to hide their tracks and protect their main char.They get the isk on the 2nd account,than they transfer it to 1-2 chars from their other account via trades etc. than finaly it reaches their main account char wich uses it for whatever purposes he pleases.If CCP were to ban the isk seller and isk buyer's account that wouldnt solve much,cause the money is still in the system,soo basicly they have to remove all of the isk that got into the Eve illegaly.Your friend might have being innocent,but CCP cant tell if the last isk destination char is the original buyer's char or just a hard worker.Soo to not directly punish someone not involved they just remove the illegal isk.

If that make any sense... anyway this is how eve isk selers do it (someone posted once somewhere how they bought isk online and shuffled it arround to try to hide his tracks)

 Also if you dont know your friend directly in RL he might have bought isk,in a WoW guild I was in we found out that one of our guild members was a gold/ebay buying freak,we had alot of members but we never ever would of suspected.We found out thanks to a random chat started in guild chat about how gold sellers and ebay chars are extremly anoying,the guy somewhat defended the sellers,soo my guildies setup a trap to see if he actualy does ebay,and to everyones surprise he did ... we didnt report him or did tell him we knew,cause he ran our guild forums and site

The question remains:How well do you know your best friend?

iCeh

Originally posted by Ayeohx

That would make sense.  He got a good amount of money to do what he was doing.  Not only was he making standard hauling runs but they used him as a decoy to attract pirates.  He was going to try to get me into this whole hauling/decoy thing, I'm glad I didn't agree to it.  Oh well, see you guys in the next mmorpg. 

What were these hauling runs he was doing? I've heard of cases where people stealing ore from macro miners, to earn themselves a lot of ISK, and in those cases their "earned" ISK was taken away from them.



Edit: Apparently if you report the macro miner before you steal their ore, you should be ok.

Ayeohx

"The question remains:How well do you know your best friend? "

Pretty well actually.   Been good friends IRL for a few years now, even got him his job working with me at a call center.  I've drilled him about buying isk and he hasn't.  And since he rather sucks at lying I believe him.

But receiving illicit isk sounds possible.  He was receiving a heck of a lot of money hauling ore and playing target for the other corp.  Dang shame it all went down the way that it did.  But we're running WoW again so no biggie.  And then who knows?  Maybe some Middle Earth.  Have fun playing Eve gang!  See ya on the next big thing.

spankybus

CCP CSR's are Morons and frankly should just be slapped around a bit. I am inclined to believe the OP, and here is why.



I was playing EVE for over 2 years. My Corp, Affinity Enterprises, was almost that old. Now that is a long, LONG time to accumulate loot. Our Corp HQ was stacked to the rafters with every kind of item we might need. BPO's, BPC's, Ship's Shuttles, Ammo, parts, you  can imagine all teh crap you keep after that much time playing.



Anyways, I go on vacation (RL) for my Honeymoon, etc. When I came back, the The HQ was totally cleaned out, nothing was left!. NO one had access to this locations Corp hangar but me (CEO perk) as most of this stuff was my own personal items. There had been a patch when I got back, so I figured no Big deal, its a glitch, they can check it from before and restore it, right?



WRONG. A MONTH!!! A month after I filed the ticket, and nagged about teh situation, they E-mail me, stating we can find no evidence of an error on our part, and "we wish you a speedy recovery from this latest setback". Can ya beat it?! I was in shock, i mean it that hangar was only full of my stuff for over a year, so how can they not find any record of the items! Then I told the Corp, 21 people quit, including my Wife and I. We now play FFXI and, believe it or not, Vanguard (the game is hard, but so was EVE and we like a challenge).



I sent them a parting E-mail, indicating our Corp's response to the situation. At 14.99 a month, thats 179.99 a person annually. So that was 3777.48 USD they would not be getting over teh next year. I ended the E-mail with the same, lame statement they ended mine with "we wish you a speedy recovery from this latest setback".



It was a fun game, but with so many games out there, I choose not to give my hard earned money to CCP. They can kiss my butt.

Ayeohx

The recent patch about two months ago?  I heard many company hangars were emptied by it though most was restored.  Damn shame, lots of folks got shafted by it.

I hope you're having fun with Vanguard.  I did the FFXI thing for about a year.  Very unique combat system but the grind killed me.  And I being the merchant ( I tend to play the Auction House like day traders play stocks) was turned off by the rampant gil sellers and bots people used.  Even with all that I still have some fond memories of it.

Happy gaming!