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I wonder if anyone at $OE...
TheSlider
Member Posts: 46
I know this is an odd question, but I wonder if anyone at $OE, whether it be today, or 2 years ago, stopped to say:
"Man, we really screwed up. I think we better rollback."
Do you think any of them have the braincells to draw an inference like this? What do you think it would have done to the playerbase if they did that, say, a week after the game blew up?
/discuss
Comments
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
I personally don't care about what they could have done a week or 2 years after the NGE. The mere fact that they even discussed and proposed the NGE shows a complete lack of respect for it's playerbase at that time.
SOE have never cared about it's current subscribers. Their only concern was, and still is, the potential subscribers.
They never did realize that the market segment they were aiming for with the NGE didn't have the patience to put up with the bugs (ironically enough the lack of dev interest in fixing those bugs caused the subscription declines in the first place) nor the forgiving nature to come back to a game they had already tried and hated. The WoW players didnt want an even easier game. Once they were weaned off whack-a-mole lite they were looking for something with depth. They were coming to SWG slowly but surely till the NGE.
There, more than likely, is a whole lot of stuff behind the scenes that we will never know unless someone like Jeff Freeman decides to spill the beans. Smedley, while in charge of SOE still has his superiors at sony that he has to report and answer to, not to mention stockholders etc. Before the NGE came about he probably got a number of phone calls that made things desperate for him. He latched onto the NGE as the possible saving grace for SWG. He was VASTLY wrong and there can be no doubt about that. However if he turned back to his superiors and admitted the cluster fugg up in his own ability to reason then he would most likely be out of a job. Remember that in all things crap rolls downhill. Most all of the designers and devs from before the NGE to the NGE's launch are now gone. Community managers are gone, etc etc etc. If SWG is incapable of coming back into it's own within the next year, and if Vanguard continues to tank I am sure Smedley will be lookiing for employment elsewhere.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
SOE has said they made the decision because the previous version just wasn't cutting mustard for a star wars based MMO. They came up with a last attempt to make swg more popular. They have given it every possible oppurtunity to meet with success. Rolling back isn't really an option for SOE. They said they cannot do it. I personally don't believe they cannot as much as they see no reason to. The game was unsuccessful before the NGE and with the NGE its just more unsuccessful. So to SOE what is the difference? Either one isn't a good game according to SOE.
Why devote resources and time to rolling back to a version you didn't like enough that you where willing to scrap the entire thing and try to do again? While I would be making the PR argument to the SOE staff and arguing that they once at least had a stable working game with Pre-CU I don't see them spending a dime on the game outside of the skelaton crew that is running it now. A crew by the way probably less capable of running a pre-cu game then the last one. I mean they are basically at the Junior level devs running the game now.
That is my answer. I still say release Pre-CU on test center and call it sunset. It operates a seperate client, seperate server and is independent of the other servers because its test. They may as well get some money out of those servers. It isn't like SOE ever used test center to test and debug its code ever. I can name numerous occassions where bugs identified on TC went out live anyways. So those servers are useless. Just debug ingame like they always do and give the veterans there game back.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
$oE new right after the Holidays that the NGE was not going to bring in the kiddies they though they would. Most of the Vets Left right after the NGE came out and we saw how poorly it was designed and buggy also.
I left on Nov. 30th 2005 giving them a couple weeks to roll back and yes right before the NGE I'd say a month before a lot of peeps where coming back again.
Lets be honest most of the SWG players where in the 20-50 age bracket everyone in my guild was 30+ and yes we had age requirement because we could.
Since I play EQ2 now on a station pass I do logon and StarSider is empty, real empty I can never get a /who to hit 32 peeps anywhere.
I know alot of people playing EQ2 that will be leaving soon for PoTBS or Conan.
With station pass price increase to 29.95 that was the last $0E straw for me My account expires end of June.
Ajax
This is classic... and a perfect show of hubris.
I am SURE that someone at SOE said (something like).
"Man, we really screwed up."
I am also SURE that they didnt say (something like).
"I think we better rollback."
What they (most likely said) was (something like).
"How can we salvage this? (by going forward)
Business doenst go back. Just like time. It rolls forward. Mistakes were made, learn from them and move on. Going back is never an option... because the reason that they went forward cant cease to exist.
This is the classic post-NGE whiner attitude. It just shows me that SOE was right to do SOMETHING... because they would have had to let the game die, just to satisfy those with thier heads burried in the sand. SOE may have screwed up (and BIG), but at least they did something... people like you are still stuck in the past.
The best thing is that an original dev is now the lead designer. I want to be uncle owen and I hope for it. But I still resent JT for approving the plan for the NGE. They had better learn not to crap all over the customers again. So I think $Oe Greedy has learned not to crap on their subscribers anymore.
I want Jedi to be rare again! But something good is happening with the game as of late.
What the fuck thinking is that? The game wasn't dead before, it only had the slow decline that ALL mmo's face that long after launch.
Wow.. making a bad decision shows spunk? I have to remember to tell my wife that when I nail someone on the side. "Honey, it's better I did SOMETHING than nothing at all"
Oh yeah. That's great.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
What the fuck thinking is that? The game wasn't dead before, it only had the slow decline that ALL mmo's face that long after launch.
Wow.. making a bad decision shows spunk? I have to remember to tell my wife that when I nail someone on the side. "Honey, it's better I did SOMETHING than nothing at all"
Oh yeah. That's great.
There are those that fail and try... and those that fail to try. SOE is the former, and you have stated you are the latter.
You seem to fail to grasp the reality (years afterwards). SOE didnt spend a lot of time and money on the NGE because they had nothing better to do, or because the game was too sucessful (and they wanted to stop that). The NGE was developed because of issues that they (and Lucas Arts) had. Those issues existed, and are the root cause of the whole NGE debacle. Ignoring them doesnt mean that they didnt exist.
SOE made a (lame) attempt at correcting a problem. They are not to be chastised for making the attempt... but for doing such a poor job, and in creating many more problems than they solved (if they even did that). If the problem was that they had people with thier heads in the sand, that were dragging the game down... well then they fixed that (as we can see here from your posting).
NGE was badddd!
Jules Torress...badddd!
Jules Torres gone!
Game is changing back--goood!
I am such a dork.
I went to the 2006 SOE fanfare in Atlanta. I was there for EQ2 and EQ1 but the SWG fanfare was there also. I got to speak to many developers and I did speak to one of the SWG developers. He was showing and explaining the game on one of the many playable displays there. As we talked, he said that "we had to change the game". He said the community wasn`t growing and that the game was a failure in it`s (pre NGE) state. He knew that a lot of people were upset about NGE though. He said that I could look into forums (or something like that anyways) to learn more about the game but he said that I`d probably get a lot of negative feedback. He said that he knew they made a lot of people mad with the changes but the changes had to be done. I wasn`t the one who brought up the topic of the SWG changes (I had never even played or seen the game till fanfare), but you could tell it was a major issue from his tone. I really wasn`t too concered anyways since I was there for EQ2 mostly.
Actually, SOE treated us great at Fanfare. I paid $125 for three days. I got a copy of Planetside, a copy of Matrix Online, and oh yes, a copy of SWG. Got a lot of "Shwag" type stuff too. They rented a night club for just us and let us drink all we wanted. Also had some great contests and prize giveaways. The hotel was incredible and the Breakfast and Dinners were great. The developer chats were good too. The whole thing really changed my opinion about SOE. They were really just regular people like any of us.
Later all, back to my game now.
Stung by the uproar and faster falling revenues, the company decided to return their original product to the market (well, almost: minor change to formulation). The customers that had lost the product they liked were happy, and many others (who had taken the product for granted and gone to explore the competition) also came back. Sales and profits surged.
Coke -> New Coke -> Classic Coke
Stung by the uproar and faster falling revenues, the company decided to return their original product to the market (well, almost: minor change to formulation). The customers that had lost the product they liked were happy, and many others (who had taken the product for granted and gone to explore the competition) also came back. Sales and profits surged.
Coke -> New Coke -> Classic Coke
Actually it is
New Coke
Coke <
Classic Coke
They are both still on the market today (and do well in different demographics). I dont disagree that they could have SPLIT the market... but that is not what this thread is about. This thread (and most of the others) is about going back.
1. our constant calls for content and bug fixes.
2. our constant and entheuastic ravings that the nge sucked and they should never push it.
3. After pushed, out constant cries for a rollback.
They never really cared AT ALLabout the condition of the game, nor the wishes of those playing it. The nge was ONLY an attempt to woo people who WEREN'T playing it and create a game THEY wanted.
If those who were enjoying the game were the ones "dragging the game down", as you put it, then you truly are a great cantidate for the dev job they posted. You think just like them.
"SWG would be great if it weren't for the f-ing subscribers" - Randal Graves, Lead SWG designer.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
What kind of idiot refuses to correct a mistake, instead opting for doing better in the future?
If I stab someone by accident do I tend to his wound or let him bleed to death and say "Hmm next time Ill run with a smaller pair of scissors."?
The NGE wasn't the solution they were looking for.. that was obvious. So why not roll back to stop the bleeding and rethink the NGE? Come up with something less drastic? Make the transition more of a gradient than a cliff?
Only insane people, economists and accountants think potential profits have any actual value.
What kind of idiot refuses to correct a mistake, instead opting for doing better in the future?
If I stab someone by accident do I tend to his wound or let him bleed to death and say "Hmm next time Ill run with a smaller pair of scissors."?
The NGE wasn't the solution they were looking for.. that was obvious. So why not roll back to stop the bleeding and rethink the NGE? Come up with something less drastic? Make the transition more of a gradient than a cliff?
Only insane people, economists and accountants think potential profits have any actual value.
The NGE was the solution they were looking for... but not the implementation that they were looking for. SOE/Lucas Arts liked the changes... just not the way that it was handled. The mistake was not that they made these changes, but how it was done. Rolling back would just leave them with a game that they didnt want, and people unhappy with thier service.
The NGE has gone forward, and is developing in the direction that they want. it isnt the game that it was originally, but it is the game that they want to sell. Going back to YOUR game would mean a loss of THIER game.
a) an insult to consumer intelligence
b) a clear sign that IP can sell anything, even if it's a steaming pile of crap
c) the consumer voting with their wallet in favor of SOE
d) testament to the resolve of the Star Wars IP
e) testament to the skill of the development team
f) testament to the addictive qualities of MMOGs and their ability to pit people against their better judgment.
g) testament to the ability of SOE to spin
h) a tell tale lesson in conformist socioeconomics; those with the money and willingness to spend it benefit while those who rebel are left out in the cold or seeking indie markets
I'm actually disturbed by some of you folks who are so ardent in defense of SOE. Their brand name alone killed Vanguard even before that shitty release. Hell, this forum is more or less for people who are pissed off about SOE's treatment of its players. People that are so pissed off, in fact, they swear off the entire Sony brand and are more than happy to spread their gospel to anyone that will listen. It just boggles my mind how some folks can come in and completely disregard the past decade of immoral SOE acts that have pissed off perhaps hundreds of thousands of people.
So what the fuck is going on here?
Do you guys really just get off on labeling and discriminating against people because they don't share your viewpoints?
Or is it something worse? How many of you fucking flamers are really paid SOE stooges?
(I'm getting more and more suspicious by the post around here, I swear.)
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
I played in Beta.I played during the 2 revamps.
I took a while off and played several mmo's at different times.I recently came back about a month ago.
SWG in its current state on ther server im playing on (bloodfin) is thriving.Everywhere i have been it is crowded.I was never a crafter so most of the revamps never affected me.
TBH SWG is no worse than any current mmo on the market.It is just as friendly to casual players as WoW.This is now a level based game much like every other mmo out atm.
I dont get how this game is "doomed" to be shutdown.Ive been playing a month or so and everything ive seen indicates the opposite.The entertainers are entertaining ,i see shouts for new cities recruiting citizens,and now another new profession with next update?(granted it was 1 that should have stayed in)Im even seeing veterans who have been here since day 1.
Ive heard of its demise for 2 years running now.But im playing and im telling you people are playing this game.Some servers are light but that does not mean empty.
So when is this game getting shutdown?
What is your physical limit?
I personally dont think SOE is a great company... but I dont think they are any worst than many others. SOE has many faults, and I think consumers have a right (and responsibility) to point them out. However, i think that if they are going to do that, they should at least know what they are talking about...
The truth is that SOE/LA messed up with NGE. Not in the design. Not in the game concepts. They messed up with the rollout, and with the way that they dealt with thier customers. That should in no way be diminished by the petty squabbling of the details of the game changes. SOE/LA had every right to change the game, and they had sufficient reasons to want to do so. What they didnt have a right to do is to treat thier customers like @#$!. That is what is unacceptable, and what should be remembered.
SWG is surviving because it isnt a bad game (for some). They are improving it, and it looks like it will continue to grow. It has passed the test of the marketplace, and people continue to gripe... but not about anything that matters. They are just whining, and as such do not deserve any real respect (they dont respect themselves, so how can others respect them).
Design:
When NGE was first in TC and later on Live servers, the basic UI function was not as user friendly as you might think. They wanted a fast-action (fps tweaked) style of control, so their game can include enough fast action combat, but their control was sluggish at best, and many gamers with disability weren't able to play since the UI design weren't focus on these gamers. It was only later on they added hot fixes and I think one patch that include enough UI control for these gamers. They want to improve the game, I get that, but they at least have to improve it in the right way, not pushing half-broken product replaceing one that's 3/4 working...
Game Concept:
Well, depends on which part of concept you want to focus on. I focus on Game Story concept and such.
1.)GAME STORY: If they want to make a game in the original trilogy, don't make Jedi a starting profession. I know Star Wars, and I know Jedi sells, but when you stray away from the lore, you get a part of your customers focus on this.
2.)FAST ACTION: It's interesting that they want to make a system that can support fast action combat. But let's see... You see the FPS games, you see the games like SW:Jedi Knight series, and you think they could use similar system on it and make it work. But what they bring out was something that tries to fit both RPG and FPS-style, and failed.
Truth to be told, I can only say that the Developers in SOE never had a direction for the game... And you can see that in all of the version of SWG, but even so, there are those who wants the old system because it is unique. The NGE is not a bad system in itself, but just not for SWG. If they push it as another game, maybe people would play both version (if they make NGE sometime in the new trilogy or something....) Developers are suppose to make gamers for their players, NOT themselves, and basically, SOE/LA forgot that and screwed up.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)