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Level progression equalises classes?
Tautology
Member Posts: 188
Just a question, I have the feeling that all classes become more similar the higher you advance in levels, i.e. I see Champions using bows, hunters using 2-handed weapons with heavy armor. I was actually assuming the classes become more differentiated the higher you advance. In addition, I see actually high-level chars having the same traits in the sockets.
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Comments
You probably can't compare champion 2 handed weapon damage and skills with hunters, likewise I doubt the bow damage and skills related to it are even close
What they don't discuss is traits, and the fact that everyone chooses the same ones...
The very nature of having this game full of solo friendly hybrid classes (more or less) is that they all have to be able to do the same thing, that is to solo, and so they all become the same play experience (not by definition true for all mmorpgs, but definitely for LotR).
The classes in this game are homogenised and porridgy, and that only gets worse as you progess. This has led to all kinds of 'know your class!' argument posts on the official boards, as people debate on what the best tank, dps, controller etc is in the game... Noone seems to know what they are best at, so everyone just zergs the mob and spams away.
The main difference in class choice to play experience is what style of stupid hat you get to wear hehe
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FYI: Hunters NEVER get to wear heavy armor and never get to use a 2 handed weapon.
A Champion get the use of a 2 handed weapon at level 10, heavy armour and a single bow skill at level 20.
A Guardian gets a single bow skill at level 30.
You obviously saw either a champion or guardian with a bow and thought they were a hunter.
Unlike the haters that most likely never played this game past level 15 if they played it at all, I've played all they way to 50 in the closed beta and can tell you that there are significant differences between classes and within the same class at end-game. Take a minstrel, they can focus on high dps or healing.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
yup what above poster said
LOTRO Armour:
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
It seems to me that the customisation available through traits is much less than the amount available through feats in WoW, skill selection in guild wars, or AA's in EQ2. For example, in warcraft a resto druid is very different to a feral, which is again very different to a moonkin. The warcraft warrior class could be customised to resemble a guardian (prot) or a champion (fury), whilst in LotRO a guardian is always a tank, and all the customisation does is offer subtle emphasises on particular abilities. At the end of the day he's still a tank, with almost exactly the same skill selection, attack routines and role as every other guardian.
I admit I've only played at low level, so maybe I'm missing something. If so, please inform me...
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Thanks, it's 4 AM here. I need more coffee. I'll edit my post.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
You only have a very few trait slots to begin with (maybe one class and one racial if you are over 15....and neither of those if you are under 13). The "deed" traits that you can slot don't do much at low levels because you haven' built them up very much. The customization comes in at higher levels when your individual skills are stronger, you have many more to choose from, and many more slots to put them in. By slotting skills that have similar bonuses that work well with each other, you can have a big impact on how your character plays. In addition, the most powerful traits are "legendary" traits, and you can't even slot your first one until 41.
At low levels, the talents make very little difference. At high levels, you really have to pick what you want to be good at. A Loremsater has to focus on DPS or crowd control. A Minsteral has to decide to focus on healing or offense. A Captain has to choose between healing, tanking, or DPS. Ect, ect. The choices you face are very similar to the choices you face in WoW at higher levels, you just can't see them yet.
Another thing to keep in mind is that even the class traits you get at low level tend to bite. My hunter got a trait that no sane human would pay to slot when she did her 15 class quest. I was so utterly underwhelmed that I left the slot empty until I earned a better one a couple of levels later. The first one I put in made a huge difference. It gave me a nice ranged damage boost, so much that I could start using an accuracy stance instead of a damage stance and still do mad DPS at range. My miss rates jumped way down, my overall DPS went way up.
Looking at what other traits I might be able to slot when I got higher, I noticed that one of my most used abilities was well on the way to earning me another trait...that pretty much totally bit. Slightly increased power regen and a 1% crit change bonus..wheee. However after I filled out the trait, the same skill started earning me points on a new trait that was actually quite nice. Until I unlocked the first one, I never would have known that it was possible to earn the next trait.
So in summary, yes your missing a lot at low level, and most of the folks bagging on the trait system apparently never played the game long enough to know what they are talking about. It's surely not on par with COH or perhaps even GW, but it is a hell of a lot better than many here seem to think.
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Hunters can duel weild , but it is no as effective as a champion.
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And as you get slowly through the levels and many customizable traits that Rings has to offer you begin to see just how well balanced a job turbine have done.
Whilst there are set roles and funsctions and responsibilities in LOTRO i think the very nice thing in regards to it is that no class feels like an auxillary class. They all bring balance and identity to a fellowship and the game whilst appearing simple on the surface is actually surprisingly deep in terms of subtle customizations.
This i strongly believe is because of the nature of the setting and the lore, Turbine will never have true player class on player class pvp so they have been able to fine tune the classes and balance them solely against the PVE environment and the more you get through the various stages of LOTRO it certainly shows. The dualing is interesting actually because in a lot of cases it shows off just how unbalanced the classes would actually be if their was player class to player class pvp in lotro, Turbine have been able to play too the strengths of their design and IP here however by only having to balance a subset of classes one way....towards PVE.
You can also see where games such as World Of Warcraft sometimes struggle and restruggle with balancing classes because they not only have to balance the classes against the PVE environments but also against each other for class on class PVP purposes so in a sense the designers and coders have a harder job in these situations.
No right or wrong way here i feel at all, but just a very important observation and something to really bare in mind when choosing and playing a class role in Lord Of The Rings.
Kind Regards
Mag
From the outset i agree Antipathy it does seem that way, but i think the higher you go the more traits and accomplishments you uncover and the more class and Racial abilities you unlock in LOTRO the richer the PVE classes get.
For example in my Kinship based in europe i may have another guardian in my Kinship tanking through the great barrows.
Now for this venture the other gaurdian will obviously be wielding a heavy shield and one handed weapon. He will equip armaments and trappings to focus towards Morale and Resistance. He will then visit a bard in a nearby settlement and equip his traits accordingly.
At mid 20's as Guardians we have both around 12 Virtues, 5 or 6 racial traits and 3 class traits. Although we cant equip them all.
So he will be equiping traits that not only have to complement the armaments he is wearing but also to aid his main tanking role.
He is also going to be using traits that buff his resistances because alot of the enemies in the Great Barrows have the ability to Debuff very heavily through Fear and Poison.
However i am a "free role" so to speak even though heavily biased in a tanking role. If i equip a two handed weapon as a guardian i can in theory deal more punishment however i lose over half of my abilities that require a shield to be equipped. Further more me having a shield equipped comes in handy as i can use a second "Guardians Promise" ability in the fellowship that would allow me to protect with my own shield the Minstrel of the Fellowship whom needs to be causing some form of melee damage...i.e be in toe to toe combat (not stood at the back) for some of her buffs and heals to actually pull off. Or i could use the ability to protect the Burglar whom has the unique ability of opening up conjunction fellowship (Team Special Moves) that really help out the whole team in a pinch...sometimes effectively these moves and the ability to pull these moves at will is an arse saver. So important i protect her.
Even with a shield i can still focus on greater damage (Not massive agreed but subtle) by equiping Armaments and Traits that deliver bonuses on my Might and agility...increasing my melee damage and critical chances.
I could also take a two handed weapon to increase the speed and efficiency of killing the foe when we are just dealing with lower end entities and the like. Using the Heavy Shield in times of Harder opponents.
Small things like the Minstrel equipping the trait allowing access to Medium Armour to improve survivability and using racial traits to boost conjunction bonuses to healing and damage.
The Champion making effective use of the Fervour skill when it is needed and cancelling it in difficult fights otherwise he loses his Block, Evade and Parry abilities altogether and may fall quickly. Also our champion even takes a standard shield for additional protection when we encounter difficult fights with massive numbers of ghouls bursting through the floor. ;-)
I suppose im no expert and i may not have answered your question and for that i apologise. I guess what im trying to say is that i think some of the decisions and choices the classes can make in terms of Aramaments, buffs and traits as you advance as a fellowship through LOTRO do become more and more visible and important. The deeper you go the game gets more tactical and complex but never on a huge WOW scale for any one class....i think that like middle earth and its magic itself the changes are subtle but noticable enough to matter and thats important to the Lore and to the IP.
Regards and Best Wishes
Mag