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Don't make personal insults to the developers...
terrorantula
Member Posts: 174
It's one thing to be mad at a company or person in a high position but you shouldn't make personal insults towards them. We don't know the true facts that go on and you've all heard of chinese whispers, it's human nature to change a story to make it sound worse or more impressive when you tell someone else. Its obvious here that noone knows the true facts and this is the case of lots of people telling slightly different stories.
I just don't think it's right insulting them when all they're doing is their job, people make mistakes and i do not hold a grudge and specially when i don't know the facts.
Comments
Granted the marketing was horrible for VG, if spending $50 was a big deal to someone, I would think anyone that had experience with MMO's would wait a little while and read actual reviews from players and critics before spending the cash.
The $50 to me wasnt a big deal...I bought it when it was just released, didnt like it..but oh well...thats what I get for buying right when its put on the shelves. If I was going out to buy a brand new car, that cost is obviously significant to me...I would never buy a car that just arrived on the lot and had zero reviews (outside of advertising) of it.
I dont know...I have just always thought buyer beware on anything...yes, this is corporate America and everyone wants to sell their wares, good or bad, they are going to make them at least appear as good as possible before anyone really knows firsthand.
$50 to me is like a night out at the local bar...you can spend the cash and have a fantastic night, or it could be bad and you are out $50 and some free time...but, you tried to have fun and it either works out for the good or doesnt.
I think it's natural that people feel cheated and lied to and although inappropriate, name calling tends to be a knee jerk reaction. The best part of all this is that we as consumers now can know all we need to know about a game. In the old days I just went and bought Defender or Yar's Revenge and hoped it was good on my Atari.
Now the investment for a consumer is greater. $50.00 for a game and then $15.00 a month after that for a MMORPG. I had no clue who created PAC Man but I knew who made EQI and as technology increased you can now:
Brad and Co are the sacrificial lambs because they are the biggest fiasco in MMORPG history (Some SWG fans may say 2nd biggest but they are still owned by the same companies) and they will get it worse than any before them have gotten it because the internet is bigger and better now. Brad was already a rockstar of the MMORPG scene. He had a celebrity status and what do we in America do with our celebrities? We praise them and award them when they do good but then secretly hope that we can see them on the cover of the Enquirer when they fall. Now we have tons of ways to find out info and Brad made it pretty dang easy to see the inner workings of the trainwreck.
No one of the general populace knew Rock Hudson had Aids untill he died. Everyone was shocked. People aren't shocked anymore. We can find any little dirty secret out. Britney shaved her head, Paris goes to Jail blah blah blah.
The bigger these video game guys get, the more like Hollywood all of this will become. Congratz Brad you are Brtiney of MMORPGs right now. Your front page news for messing up instead of going platinuum or winning an Oscar. That's the nature of things. People want to see you suceed as an underdog and want to see you fall hard as a star.
Obviously you've never heard of Enron? People in high places are fair game for criticism, it goes with the paycheck. And Skilling, Lay, and Fastow were immoral, lying, cheating sons of bitches. I make no apologies for calling them that.
It's just up to people how much abuse McQuade deserves for pissing away $30 million of other peoples money, negotiating his employees out of jobs while getting a "consulting agreement" for himself. It's not as if McQuade was called out into the parking lot himself.....though I'm sure there's those that would like to get him one on one in a parking lot......
Obviously you've never heard of Enron? People in high places are fair game for criticism, it goes with the paycheck. And Skilling, Lay, and Fastow were immoral, lying, cheating sons of bitches. I make no apologies for calling them that.
It's just up to people how much abuse McQuade deserves for pissing away $30 million of other peoples money, negotiating his employees out of jobs while getting a "consulting agreement" for himself. It's not as if McQuade was called out into the parking lot himself.....though I'm sure there's those that would like to get him one on one in a parking lot......
I agree, the person who was in charge of this debacle, and who then openly admitted he didn't have the Guts to actually be there when people were getting fired because of his mistakes/Ego is getting everything he deserves.
Look - This is typical looking out for yourself stuff.
People say don't blame Brad - Sorry he is the reason this all happened. He was running the ship and when the ship sunk he was the FIRST in the lifeboat. When it came time to fire all those guys/gals he didn't go because he would cry. He didn't care if it might have showed he actually cared about them. He just didn't want to cry.
You can rest assured that Brad made sure he had a job AND compensation for VSOH being sold to SOE. I'm sure he looked out for himself because that is what people like him do. No REAL careing for the others because if he did he would NEVER have let it go down the way it did. No MAN would. He didn't want to cry! Sorry Brad that a VERY poor excuse and you should be ashamed of yourself. You didn't want to face all those people questioning you. Basically the action was that of a yellow stripped coward if you ask me.
So no, don't personally attack the Developers because they are NOT to blame. Brad and the management team at Sigil are to blame. All of which jumped from the sinking ship like rats and left the crew to take the fall. Only in America can the ones responsible for making the decisions win in the end and the little people below them pay the HUGE price tor their total lack of management skills.
Biggest fiasco? Woah... try Dark and Light. It was a stinking pile of buggy excrement at release. They conned people into preordering by promising all sorts of in-game stuff. They did end up offering refunds, but quite a few people never actually got their refund or had to go through numerous hoops with their bank or click'n'buy (or whatever that incompetent billing company they used was called) in order to get it. Then almost, what... a year or so later... they start billing people again. I ended up getting a bill for a game I never subscribed to and had pretty much completely forgotten about - WTF?!? Can you imagine the lynch mob you would get if SOE suddenly decides to bill the people who quit SWG as a result of the NGE? LOL
Farlan makes Sigil look like a saint in comparison.
But...
Unlike Sigil, they don't have clearly visible celebrities as you put it (and I think that's a good comparison). It's hard to keep up the hate towards an unknown company hidden away on some remote island. Brad on the other hand, came to the various forums and promised the world. He became famous because he said what a devoted group of people wanted to hear. He failed to deliver. Now he is paying for it.
*shrug*
I personally can't get all that worked up about this and I must admit that I get a good laugh out of reading the hate filled posts. I'm sorta just waiting for someone to compare Brad with some satanic demon who likes to sodomise little kids before eating them alive.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I have to agree though with the OP. Dont blame the people working on Vanguard, blame the decision makers. It was their decisions that ruined Vanguard and brought about the end to Sigil.
Warp
Granted the marketing was horrible for VG, if spending $50 was a big deal to someone, I would think anyone that had experience with MMO's would wait a little while and read actual reviews from players and critics before spending the cash.
The $50 to me wasnt a big deal...I bought it when it was just released, didnt like it..but oh well...thats what I get for buying right when its put on the shelves. If I was going out to buy a brand new car, that cost is obviously significant to me...I would never buy a car that just arrived on the lot and had zero reviews (outside of advertising) of it.
I dont know...I have just always thought buyer beware on anything...yes, this is corporate America and everyone wants to sell their wares, good or bad, they are going to make them at least appear as good as possible before anyone really knows firsthand.
$50 to me is like a night out at the local bar...you can spend the cash and have a fantastic night, or it could be bad and you are out $50 and some free time...but, you tried to have fun and it either works out for the good or doesnt.
I don't care if it's $50 or $0.05 - the price is not the issue. They lied - it's about ethics.
I couldn't care less what people say but it is thier right to speak thier minds and noone is going to stop that. Just remember when you leave your moms basement and start running your mouth to people within arms reach of you that there are consequences. The real world after all is FFAPVP with full loot much of the time.
Stop whining and login so I can kill you!
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
Honestly, it's like you guys are trying to find ways to justify insulting developers. All they ever did was try to make a good game.
Maybe you don't know the "facts", but a "fact" for me is that they've both made games that were substandard. They deserved to be the butt of consumers fury.
You really don't need to "find a way to insult developer" with guys like mcquaid around...lol
Honestly, it's like you guys are trying to find ways to justify insulting developers. All they ever did was try to make a good game.
"All they ever did was try to make a good game"???
Yeah, sure...
Fake demos exclusively for Microsoft to make them pay more, over 2 years "in development" where they didn't develop anything, Brad never in his office the last weeks/months, etc etc etc.
Biggest fiasco? Woah... try Dark and Light. It was a stinking pile of buggy excrement at release. They conned people into preordering by promising all sorts of in-game stuff. They did end up offering refunds, but quite a few people never actually got their refund or had to go through numerous hoops with their bank or click'n'buy (or whatever that incompetent billing company they used was called) in order to get it. Then almost, what... a year or so later... they start billing people again. I ended up getting a bill for a game I never subscribed to and had pretty much completely forgotten about - WTF?!? Can you imagine the lynch mob you would get if SOE suddenly decides to bill the people who quit SWG as a result of the NGE? LOL
Farlan makes Sigil look like a saint in comparison.
But...
Unlike Sigil, they don't have clearly visible celebrities as you put it (and I think that's a good comparison). It's hard to keep up the hate towards an unknown company hidden away on some remote island. Brad on the other hand, came to the various forums and promised the world. He became famous because he said what a devoted group of people wanted to hear. He failed to deliver. Now he is paying for it.
*shrug*
I personally can't get all that worked up about this and I must admit that I get a good laugh out of reading the hate filled posts. I'm sorta just waiting for someone to compare Brad with some satanic demon who likes to sodomise little kids before eating them alive.
* 1 McQuade unit is equal to total and utter ineptitude in design, execution and support of an MMOG
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
While I would normally agree with your sentiment, I dont agree in this situation. Brad made his ascent and subsequent fall very public! I have posted this on another post, but I'll say it again in case you didnt see it. Essentually, he touted Vanguard as THE game. He came off as a demi-god. He made bold claims, and promised people the moon. If you are going to court the public, dont be surprise that they will turn on you when you mess up.
I have absolutely no sympathy for celebrites or infamous celebrites (LIKE BRAD) who try to play the publicity card only to turn it against them. This whole mess is of his own making and he is getting what he deserves.
I do agree with you, 100% in fact. I think I have just gotten over the whole complaining about something that you purchased that doesnt do what you thought it would do, even if you were told that it would. I have seen it too many times so now when there is a purchase I want to make, if the money spent is any concern at all to me, I make sure I know as much about the product as possible before buying.
Games I will take risks on because I like to see firsthand for myself how they really are, and as long as I am not buying them every day, the cost isnt too bad. Its risk vs reward and the potential rewards outweight the risk of being swindled out of my $50.
But keep in mind, I am not really debating your statement whatsoever...I agree with it but just for me personally I usually blame myself if I buy a poor product because I know how a lot of the business world works. Especially when large sums of money have been invested in creating the product. I am definitely not defending the marketing of VG, or of any product that is unethical in any way, shape, or form. I do wish this practice would stop, but I dont see if happening anytime soon. Check your spam in-box filter if you need some clear examples
I would agree that there is a certain level of personal anger/disrepect that is too far when you consider we're talking about minor entertainment (video games, movies, etc.) Personal threats to someone who wrote a song you didn't like, or who poorly directed a movie, is just plain ridiculous.
That being said....any person that frames an article declaring him/her a "Gaming God", better be ready for some heat when the shit hits the fan.
You don't get to dismiss the over-the-top criticism when you've reveled in some over-the-top praise.
Granted the marketing was horrible for VG, if spending $50 was a big deal to someone, I would think anyone that had experience with MMO's would wait a little while and read actual reviews from players and critics before spending the cash.
The $50 to me wasnt a big deal...I bought it when it was just released, didnt like it..but oh well...thats what I get for buying right when its put on the shelves. If I was going out to buy a brand new car, that cost is obviously significant to me...I would never buy a car that just arrived on the lot and had zero reviews (outside of advertising) of it.
I dont know...I have just always thought buyer beware on anything...yes, this is corporate America and everyone wants to sell their wares, good or bad, they are going to make them at least appear as good as possible before anyone really knows firsthand.
$50 to me is like a night out at the local bar...you can spend the cash and have a fantastic night, or it could be bad and you are out $50 and some free time...but, you tried to have fun and it either works out for the good or doesnt.
Its stupid attitude like urs make Vanguard came out early b/c they know someone like u would go out and buy it reguardless the game is good or bad.
Granted the marketing was horrible for VG, if spending $50 was a big deal to someone, I would think anyone that had experience with MMO's would wait a little while and read actual reviews from players and critics before spending the cash.
The $50 to me wasnt a big deal...I bought it when it was just released, didnt like it..but oh well...thats what I get for buying right when its put on the shelves. If I was going out to buy a brand new car, that cost is obviously significant to me...I would never buy a car that just arrived on the lot and had zero reviews (outside of advertising) of it.
I dont know...I have just always thought buyer beware on anything...yes, this is corporate America and everyone wants to sell their wares, good or bad, they are going to make them at least appear as good as possible before anyone really knows firsthand.
$50 to me is like a night out at the local bar...you can spend the cash and have a fantastic night, or it could be bad and you are out $50 and some free time...but, you tried to have fun and it either works out for the good or doesnt.
Its stupid attitude like urs make Vanguard came out early b/c they know someone like u would go out and buy it reguardless the game is good or bad.
LOL! Yup, it's all flood950's fault! Let's get him!Geesh! Do some of you guys even read what you type?
I mean come on... everyone knows it was SOE's fault.