Once again, UO was one of the games that had this, with the Seer thing going on, they created mini quests and stuff all the time, always something new happening here and there. Actual people playing the villain, not some badly scripted NPC doing the same thing over and over. As said before, i find it funny that no other multimillion game company has managed to do this since UO.
One of the problems of exploration in the MMO worlds is that infact they are close to the real world in that a discovered feature is for ever discovered, but non like the real world they are not as vast and dont need several lifespans to fully discover.
that means for explorers a quite fast ending trail; as mentioned earlier in this debate i agree with the statment that a MMO world dont need to be big to be cool, but it might be a good idea to put some random things in it.
let me explain there is the static exploration thing that is cool and what about some, maybe, instanced random located zones that stay in the same place for only a few runs ( in a montain area one can wander around doing quests and ressources hunt, maybe even exploring to get that title or bonnus if he can follow the map he fond on that website to the far remote ruins etc... but on the way he and the fellows that go with him steps on what seems to be the entrance to an old abandonned mine that no one can managed to find any info on on the web ( cause yesterday it was simply not there at all), the group decide to check what's inside and enter the instance, there any thing can happen that place can have just monsters to kill maybe with extra xp or better loot, it can have far more ressources that the average area outside or rarer ones, it may have quest in them ' not original ones for sure since it's random generated ' or more subtle and long forwarded quests like while exploring the level 10-15 area wich is a coastal area you enter a ship wreak and foind in a chest a map that show an island that island will only spawn when the holder of the map actually step in the area level 40-45 later in the game or some scripting quests like after your group in the jungle area as desacrated that old lizard men temple for loot an unknown tribe of lizard men seek revenge sending retaliation fighters to the friendly NPC settelement in the area, involving every signle player in the zone in the quest etc ..., you can also give some titles like in lotro unique titles that will only be shareable by the guys that like you have wandered the area during the 2 or 3 days during wich that cave was up and so on)
building an ever changing world without changing the main world that cant be changed in a MMO to keep for everry body when ever they started the same game.
thinking more about it, and having read a bit more what others have wote, there's tons of things that can be done, the exploration things not only needs to start with the discoverry of the unknown of place but can be triggered by NPCs, you enconter a smashed cart on the road bodies every where and some wounded survivors tel you that the agressors ( let it be orcs, brigands, culptists what ever) have kidnaped somebody and taken it to their camp, and ask you go and deliver that person, or to retrive some stollen goods;
the starting NPC might be in a tavern or a shop maybe reacting to some things that you just picked up while exploring ( sort of : hey you, i managed to see that you tried to sell some trukishok steel to that guy, i 've heard of some place in the blue montain where one can find some red dimonds but cant figure where that was ....)
so far i've just mentioned direct rewarding exploration( by means of xp , welth or fame) but what about duty, lets think about an area like a montain pass wich is blocked by an army of orcs wich are knowned to be lead by a giant that cant be found among them.
the pass can be traveled throu only to the cost of long dangerous combats or at the head of a small army of players, if none of those options are available to you the only way to cross those montains is to go the really long way around, exept if someone explore the montain area outside of the path and find the randomly moving giant camp and kills it, without there leader the orcs will deband for 24 or 48 hours before they find themself a new giant leader, leaving the pass free for all to cross, same can be done with boats that will not go to sea till that giant seasnake or shark is killed or till the lost temple of the sea god is found in order to please him to stop that nonstoping hurrycane
we can have some disease ravaging an NPC town leaving no merchant to trade with till one can find the forgoten golden flower field and bring some back to heal everry body for some time
we can think to some fansy things that are just for fun like finding the purpule highmage somwhere in the area, each time he is encontered by an adventurer he'll change the color of the cloths of the character or the color of the sky or ..., in the big city where all the socializing is going on if one can step on the famous Lutrek the Royal bard , he can change the music that is played in the taverns of the city and so on
but what is trully important is that exploration must not bring more or not too much more ( it can bring more due to the time consumed to explore) than "normal" play to keep it a choice cause if the reward is too good everry body is going to wander around killing all the fun to be dicovering cause you dont really discover anything in a train
Ryzom's mob AI still makes travelling fun after two years of playing. So far I've only seen something similar in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (meat eaters feeding upon grass eaters, etc). Artificial life simulation is something that would make me stay longer in other games, my biggest turnoff in Vanguard and all the F2P games are the "sitting duck mobs".
Exploration more than any other element has been neglected in MMOs today.
I started MMOs when there were only 3 out there UO, EQ, and AC
I simply was not a fan of UO graphically. EQ was beautiful in its day, but when i found myself trped in a seriers of retangle zones strung together in line by level, i felt traped. When i finally tried Asherons Call, it was like a slice of gaming heaven.
I saw a mountain in the distance i ran to it . I climbed it. I saw there was something on the other side. Not just empty space but a well hidden cave with may rooms an monsters and even lore about the world placed around in scrolls. No quest led me there, no map, no helpful npc. I found it and it was my discovery. I found many hidden and hard to get to places, and the world was good.
Now the lazy players rule. A helpful npc points you in the right direction. If you can find it a web site has a coordinate for you.
The world of AC1 was vast it wasn't empty. It had strange ruins with subltle guide stones that led to places far off the well traveled roads . The hidden content was as good or better than the content along the beaten path.
Developers could bring this back but the lazy gamer rules.
Damn you lazy gamers !
"Governments can be useful to the governed only as long as inherent tendancies towards tryanny are restrained"- God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert
Asheron's Call, Champions Online, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest, Lineage 2, Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft.Waiting for SWTOR
AC1 is still my favorite game, even though it is pretty long in the tooth. There was so much hidden content. Of course it most probably would not be hidden long with Wikipedia and the like available on the ether now.
So exploration is great for me as long as it doesn't overwhelm me. A zone, with borders, with dungeon entrances (instances, live, or other zones), a place where I understand my surrounding is great. In life, I have better perception skills, so even if the world is "seemless", I never really feel that lost...in a game, it is easy to get me to feel lost and that isn't good. There are moments where feeling lost is good. See, no 2 rocks are identical in life...and if in the game they are, this is okay, but I need some geography hints to understand where I am...and on a screen, the amount of relevant information you can give is limited. In life, I use 360 to know where I am and recognize my surrounding...on a computer, you have between 15 to 45 degree to achieve the same recognition...and my mind isn't taking more information, which result in me been lost easily in a video game while in life, I am doing better (eh, men are hunters after all, aren't we? ). Seemless, is not only overated, it is a flaw if you cannot integrate, in a way or another, all my recognition tools...and if you fail doing that, zones are much better, not only lagwise, but to make me feel home and in an environment I understand...and try to master! ______
I have to disagree with you. I do not think seamless is a problem. Seamless can also include borders which direct players to certain areas. Seamless can have instanced and non-instanced environments. I think the perfect MMO is a blend of an open seamless world that contains elements of instancing and noninstancing. The best MMO gives players choice. While you hate getting lost, I love getting lost. You seem to be overwhelmed by exploration, I just take it all in stride, soaking up the scenery.
I do not want to be boxed in by artificial barriers, however, environments can be used to define areas without having to resort to one or two entrance/exit choke points. For people like you who are more cautious about exploration, the game should provide NPCs and quests and a variety of other mechanisms to direct players on where to go.
An MMO should give players choice: It should provide a landscape for those who want to get lost as well as provide game mechanics to help players get to where they need to go in a short period of time.
There are many good ideas in this thread. It's the kind of thinking I've been hoping developers would do, instead of always creating linear games with static environments. Experienced players have been crying out for this kind of innovation for some time now. Of course, not being in the business, I don't know what kind of expense or time this would involve.
Surprisingly, the best exploration MMO I ever played was EQOA on PS2. The world was PERFECT, with an open world with many hidden nooks and crannies to explore. Its too bad not enough people play it; the world is absolutely magnificent and boundless. Perhaps the best feature is a lack of features. I'd like to discover quests on my own, not because I saw an exclamation point above a quest giver. I'd like to discover landmarks on my own, and not have a map tell me where to go. I'd like to be plopped in a world, told "have fun!", and figure out a path by myself. Thats what drew me to MMOs, not a linear path where I'm forced to go from place to place.
The biggest problem I see with exploring in every game so far is that exploration is punishable by death. There is no reward associated with it, and generally (depending on the death penalty of the game) the risk is pretty bad. This seems to be a side effect of these games incessant fixation on leveling and that the level range of expected encounters steadily increases beyond the starting point. So a new player that wants to go exploring is killed rather quickly and sent home. That's a strong disincentive towards exploration.
Seems to me exploration is simply just going out and seeing what's out there. However, the design of the typical game itself discourages this behavior.
Comments
One of the problems of exploration in the MMO worlds is that infact they are close to the real world in that a discovered feature is for ever discovered, but non like the real world they are not as vast and dont need several lifespans to fully discover.
that means for explorers a quite fast ending trail; as mentioned earlier in this debate i agree with the statment that a MMO world dont need to be big to be cool, but it might be a good idea to put some random things in it.
let me explain there is the static exploration thing that is cool and what about some, maybe, instanced random located zones that stay in the same place for only a few runs ( in a montain area one can wander around doing quests and ressources hunt, maybe even exploring to get that title or bonnus if he can follow the map he fond on that website to the far remote ruins etc... but on the way he and the fellows that go with him steps on what seems to be the entrance to an old abandonned mine that no one can managed to find any info on on the web ( cause yesterday it was simply not there at all), the group decide to check what's inside and enter the instance, there any thing can happen that place can have just monsters to kill maybe with extra xp or better loot, it can have far more ressources that the average area outside or rarer ones, it may have quest in them ' not original ones for sure since it's random generated ' or more subtle and long forwarded quests like while exploring the level 10-15 area wich is a coastal area you enter a ship wreak and foind in a chest a map that show an island that island will only spawn when the holder of the map actually step in the area level 40-45 later in the game or some scripting quests like after your group in the jungle area as desacrated that old lizard men temple for loot an unknown tribe of lizard men seek revenge sending retaliation fighters to the friendly NPC settelement in the area, involving every signle player in the zone in the quest etc ..., you can also give some titles like in lotro unique titles that will only be shareable by the guys that like you have wandered the area during the 2 or 3 days during wich that cave was up and so on)
building an ever changing world without changing the main world that cant be changed in a MMO to keep for everry body when ever they started the same game.
thinking more about it, and having read a bit more what others have wote, there's tons of things that can be done, the exploration things not only needs to start with the discoverry of the unknown of place but can be triggered by NPCs, you enconter a smashed cart on the road bodies every where and some wounded survivors tel you that the agressors ( let it be orcs, brigands, culptists what ever) have kidnaped somebody and taken it to their camp, and ask you go and deliver that person, or to retrive some stollen goods;
the starting NPC might be in a tavern or a shop maybe reacting to some things that you just picked up while exploring ( sort of : hey you, i managed to see that you tried to sell some trukishok steel to that guy, i 've heard of some place in the blue montain where one can find some red dimonds but cant figure where that was ....)
so far i've just mentioned direct rewarding exploration( by means of xp , welth or fame) but what about duty, lets think about an area like a montain pass wich is blocked by an army of orcs wich are knowned to be lead by a giant that cant be found among them.
the pass can be traveled throu only to the cost of long dangerous combats or at the head of a small army of players, if none of those options are available to you the only way to cross those montains is to go the really long way around, exept if someone explore the montain area outside of the path and find the randomly moving giant camp and kills it, without there leader the orcs will deband for 24 or 48 hours before they find themself a new giant leader, leaving the pass free for all to cross, same can be done with boats that will not go to sea till that giant seasnake or shark is killed or till the lost temple of the sea god is found in order to please him to stop that nonstoping hurrycane
we can have some disease ravaging an NPC town leaving no merchant to trade with till one can find the forgoten golden flower field and bring some back to heal everry body for some time
we can think to some fansy things that are just for fun like finding the purpule highmage somwhere in the area, each time he is encontered by an adventurer he'll change the color of the cloths of the character or the color of the sky or ..., in the big city where all the socializing is going on if one can step on the famous Lutrek the Royal bard , he can change the music that is played in the taverns of the city and so on
but what is trully important is that exploration must not bring more or not too much more ( it can bring more due to the time consumed to explore) than "normal" play to keep it a choice cause if the reward is too good everry body is going to wander around killing all the fun to be dicovering cause you dont really discover anything in a train
Ryzom's mob AI still makes travelling fun after two years of playing. So far I've only seen something similar in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (meat eaters feeding upon grass eaters, etc). Artificial life simulation is something that would make me stay longer in other games, my biggest turnoff in Vanguard and all the F2P games are the "sitting duck mobs".
Exploration more than any other element has been neglected in MMOs today.
I started MMOs when there were only 3 out there UO, EQ, and AC
I simply was not a fan of UO graphically. EQ was beautiful in its day, but when i found myself trped in a seriers of retangle zones strung together in line by level, i felt traped. When i finally tried Asherons Call, it was like a slice of gaming heaven.
I saw a mountain in the distance i ran to it . I climbed it. I saw there was something on the other side. Not just empty space but a well hidden cave with may rooms an monsters and even lore about the world placed around in scrolls. No quest led me there, no map, no helpful npc. I found it and it was my discovery. I found many hidden and hard to get to places, and the world was good.
Now the lazy players rule. A helpful npc points you in the right direction. If you can find it a web site has a coordinate for you.
The world of AC1 was vast it wasn't empty. It had strange ruins with subltle guide stones that led to places far off the well traveled roads . The hidden content was as good or better than the content along the beaten path.
Developers could bring this back but the lazy gamer rules.
Damn you lazy gamers !
"Governments can be useful to the governed only as long as inherent tendancies towards tryanny are restrained"- God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert
Asheron's Call, Champions Online, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest, Lineage 2, Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft.Waiting for SWTOR
Exactly how I feel Uttaus.
AC1 is still my favorite game, even though it is pretty long in the tooth. There was so much hidden content. Of course it most probably would not be hidden long with Wikipedia and the like available on the ether now.
Lets Eat It!
Seems to me exploration is simply just going out and seeing what's out there. However, the design of the typical game itself discourages this behavior.