Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Leodious
Originally posted by Squal'Zell We just need a world WE CAN CONTROL.
No NPCs NO AUCTION HOUSES only TOOLS (eg: personnal vendors that sell our stuff or mechanics that alow us to make crafting tools and then over time perfeciton these crafting tools) We make the houses and the cities give us a world mechanics and tools let us do the rest. the devs can send apocaliptic events to slow us down or genesis events to help us,
I really like this idea, but I want to take it a step further. I would like to see a world with no currency. Have gold, sure, and other precious metals and such, and have them drop off enemies, or something of that nature. But have gold just be a metal that you can use, and that has weight, just like copper and silver. Then, have everything that is the best be player made: player-made weapons, player-made armor, player-grown food, player-raised mounts, etc. Anything you can think of, but have it all be made by the players. With the elimination of hard currency and making the best things made by the players, you will have a powerful economy. If you added eventual permanent item decay and player run towns (think what Darkfall might go for if they ever exist, or something along the lines of Lineage) and you will have an economy that will keep itself running and a PvP system that would fuel the quest to always have the best items. I really like the idea of simply having a world and tools to control what happens. I think that is how you would get a MMO that really engages the players. The games we have today are always so regimented, and while they sometimes have different features, and sometimes intersting things for players to do, things are too guided. The only thing we need would be a way to either make level irrelevant (or have no levels--maybe a pure skill based system like EVE or Ryzom) or give a great many ways to get experience that would be viable across the board. One way to do this would be to have something like Elderscrolls games in place. The more you do something, the better you get at it. That way you could do whatever you want, and gradually get better at those things. I wouldn't want the same level system, because while it works in single player, I am not certain it would in a MMO.
I don't think this would actually work very well at all. Several games have tried something like this, Horizons comes to mind right at first. 1. The problem with having everything player made is, the adventurers get bored. What is the reward for beating some big ugly creature. What reason do they have for even trying, loot is an easy option. No loot of some kind means no adventureres. 2. While I like the idea where players CAN control everything, there should be other options available. a. There needs to be NPC's to provide some sort of direction. There are many times when people log in where they just want to relax, being told what to do can accomplish this. b. NPC's can provide immediate back story and a sense of purpose to what you are supposed to be doing, what is the overall objective. Games like Ryzom are good because they allow you to control a great deal, they suck because there is really nothing to do. A blend of the two are great. Give us the controls and ability to create the character that we want, to create the city and empire that we want. But let us play and enjoy and relax at the same time. There should be some things pre-made in the game allready that give you a sense of what the heck you should be doing. Venge Sunsoar
I'm sorry I didn't cover that. I would certainly want there to be quests and the like to give a player purpose in the world. What I was envisioning would be a real roleplaying world where you have quests throughout the game that give you purpose, maybe make you choose the PvP faction (or have you start out in a faction, like most games) or allow you to remain neutral. This would give players a roleplaying reason to hunt certain things, and the quests could give good items, but I was thinking of something heavily PvP based.
Now that you mention it, though, there would need to be something good on the PvE end, because you can't just do PvP forever. what I was thinking was something like Ryzom, where you have to kill certain animals or go certain places to get the very specific materials to make stuff, and with permanent decay, there is always a market for anyhting, allowing players to specialize in what they want to make, instead of feeling like they should make consumables, because there will always be a market for them. This would creatue a self-sustaining PvP world, much like Lineage. However, while I want the players to have control over the entire world, there does need to be NPCs populating the world, expecially civiilian NPCs that you can help, merchants that sell some stuff, and the like. I would want spells to come at you like in EverQuest II, where you just learn them naturally, or find them in a book. In fact, some of the best spells could be rare loot from boss mobs, and that would give you a good reason to PvE...but I hate raiding, so I didn't figure that into my conception of this game.
I would that Developers would read these forums and see how desperate we as players are for a different sort of MMO that doesn't follow the "Formula." I would love also to hear any idea anyone else has to either expand on my ideas or develop their own conception of a game world.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I really like this idea, but I want to take it a step further. I would like to see a world with no currency. Have gold, sure, and other precious metals and such, and have them drop off enemies, or something of that nature. But have gold just be a metal that you can use, and that has weight, just like copper and silver. Then, have everything that is the best be player made: player-made weapons, player-made armor, player-grown food, player-raised mounts, etc. Anything you can think of, but have it all be made by the players. With the elimination of hard currency and making the best things made by the players, you will have a powerful economy. If you added eventual permanent item decay and player run towns (think what Darkfall might go for if they ever exist, or something along the lines of Lineage) and you will have an economy that will keep itself running and a PvP system that would fuel the quest to always have the best items.
I can see they are not teaching economics much these days in schools. You are proposing a barter system, which is wildly inefficient and slow, and makes conducting economic transactions difficult. "Money" was invented for a very good reason and without you really can't have an economy that gets much beyond the hunter/gatherer phase, its just too inefficient.
Without a good, stable, currency an economy like you describe in the next paragraph would be unwieldy..... if not impossible to navigate.
Imagine you want to buy a new axe. You go to the axe maker and he says, I'll need some iron, some wood, some leather and access to a forge. Say you are a miner, so you can easily come up with the iron. You need wood, go to a wood gatherer only to find out..he has no use for iron atm... he wants you to bring him wood.... so you wander around looking for someone willing to trade you wood for metal.... you eventually find someone, bring your wood back, and now...where to get the leather? Rinse and repeat.
Crafting would be a horror in this scenario and no one would want to do it.
Besides, I like games where I can use the treasure I discover... I don't want to depend on human crafters to supply me my gear.... so I'd steer clear of any game that provided this sort of "virtual" world experience. (in fact, I'd prefer all games had no crafting at all, but thats a different discussion)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You should read up on it some more. If you do not have internet or maybe a lack of fund preventing you from a subscription based game, they provide a single player campaign for you. That is all it is. Age of Conan does something similiar. It is a shame companies do not do this more often for people. If you do pay, you get all the elements commonly found in any other MMORPG as well as online only group content. (which by the way, scales to your average group level and how many are in your group.)
You must sign up and pay for Age of Conan, there is no free single player campaign.
The first 20 levels are basically solo content (online).
After that you're let out into the big wide world until level 80.
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Leodious I really like this idea, but I want to take it a step further. I would like to see a world with no currency. Have gold, sure, and other precious metals and such, and have them drop off enemies, or something of that nature. But have gold just be a metal that you can use, and that has weight, just like copper and silver. Then, have everything that is the best be player made: player-made weapons, player-made armor, player-grown food, player-raised mounts, etc. Anything you can think of, but have it all be made by the players. With the elimination of hard currency and making the best things made by the players, you will have a powerful economy. If you added eventual permanent item decay and player run towns (think what Darkfall might go for if they ever exist, or something along the lines of Lineage) and you will have an economy that will keep itself running and a PvP system that would fuel the quest to always have the best items.
I can see they are not teaching economics much these days in schools. You are proposing a barter system, which is wildly inefficient and slow, and makes conducting economic transactions difficult. "Money" was invented for a very good reason and without you really can't have an economy that gets much beyond the hunter/gatherer phase, its just too inefficient.
Without a good, stable, currency an economy like you describe in the next paragraph would be unwieldy..... if not impossible to navigate.
Imagine you want to buy a new axe. You go to the axe maker and he says, I'll need some iron, some wood, some leather and access to a forge. Say you are a miner, so you can easily come up with the iron. You need wood, go to a wood gatherer only to find out..he has no use for iron atm... he wants you to bring him wood.... so you wander around looking for someone willing to trade you wood for metal.... you eventually find someone, bring your wood back, and now...where to get the leather? Rinse and repeat.
Crafting would be a horror in this scenario and no one would want to do it.
Besides, I like games where I can use the treasure I discover... I don't want to depend on human crafters to supply me my gear.... so I'd steer clear of any game that provided this sort of "virtual" world experience. (in fact, I'd prefer all games had no crafting at all, but thats a different discussion)
You are really missing the whole point of all this. The first "currencies," you will remember (if in fact, you have taken any economics course) were precious metals and gems. In almost all the games out there now, you play in a medieval or high fantasy world, and the currency is copper/silver/gold(and maybe platinum). Now, in my proposed world, things would be more like they would really be. You will never find an axe inside a wolf. The best things in this world (the real one) are handmade by master craftsman. This is simply the way of the world.
I wonder why people are so quick to assume things about other people's lives based on their opinions. It is my opinion that currency is a failed system that people keep using simply because the rest of the modern world uses it. I could go into great detail about why I think this, but I don't see any need, as this is a gaming forum. However, I would like it if you no longer made assumptions about other people because their opinions are different from yours.
At any rate, people used a barter system for a long time, but what I think would happen is that people in the game would come up with their own currency. A good online friend of mine from WoW is working on his thesis right now on synthetic economies. He is using WoW because he is more familiar with it, and can look at multiple iteration of the same economy. If you have played WoW, you will know that bartering happens a great deal there, even in a world with currency(oddly enough, gold currency and gold the metal are two very different things, which is something I hate), the most common scenario being trading the crafting of something for the materials needed to make whatever it is. People are now trading the Aldor and Scryer items with each other, trading metals for leathers, and other things of this ilk.
Now I posit that a world that functions according to natural rules of trade will work much more effectively than something someone made up as a currency system in a virtual world.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Comments
I really like this idea, but I want to take it a step further.
I would like to see a world with no currency. Have gold, sure, and other precious metals and such, and have them drop off enemies, or something of that nature. But have gold just be a metal that you can use, and that has weight, just like copper and silver.
Then, have everything that is the best be player made: player-made weapons, player-made armor, player-grown food, player-raised mounts, etc. Anything you can think of, but have it all be made by the players. With the elimination of hard currency and making the best things made by the players, you will have a powerful economy. If you added eventual permanent item decay and player run towns (think what Darkfall might go for if they ever exist, or something along the lines of Lineage) and you will have an economy that will keep itself running and a PvP system that would fuel the quest to always have the best items.
I really like the idea of simply having a world and tools to control what happens. I think that is how you would get a MMO that really engages the players. The games we have today are always so regimented, and while they sometimes have different features, and sometimes intersting things for players to do, things are too guided.
The only thing we need would be a way to either make level irrelevant (or have no levels--maybe a pure skill based system like EVE or Ryzom) or give a great many ways to get experience that would be viable across the board. One way to do this would be to have something like Elderscrolls games in place. The more you do something, the better you get at it. That way you could do whatever you want, and gradually get better at those things. I wouldn't want the same level system, because while it works in single player, I am not certain it would in a MMO.
I don't think this would actually work very well at all. Several games have tried something like this, Horizons comes to mind right at first.
1. The problem with having everything player made is, the adventurers get bored. What is the reward for beating some big ugly creature. What reason do they have for even trying, loot is an easy option. No loot of some kind means no adventureres.
2. While I like the idea where players CAN control everything, there should be other options available. a. There needs to be NPC's to provide some sort of direction. There are many times when people log in where they just want to relax, being told what to do can accomplish this. b. NPC's can provide immediate back story and a sense of purpose to what you are supposed to be doing, what is the overall objective.
Games like Ryzom are good because they allow you to control a great deal, they suck because there is really nothing to do. A blend of the two are great. Give us the controls and ability to create the character that we want, to create the city and empire that we want. But let us play and enjoy and relax at the same time. There should be some things pre-made in the game allready that give you a sense of what the heck you should be doing.
Venge Sunsoar
I'm sorry I didn't cover that. I would certainly want there to be quests and the like to give a player purpose in the world. What I was envisioning would be a real roleplaying world where you have quests throughout the game that give you purpose, maybe make you choose the PvP faction (or have you start out in a faction, like most games) or allow you to remain neutral. This would give players a roleplaying reason to hunt certain things, and the quests could give good items, but I was thinking of something heavily PvP based.
Now that you mention it, though, there would need to be something good on the PvE end, because you can't just do PvP forever. what I was thinking was something like Ryzom, where you have to kill certain animals or go certain places to get the very specific materials to make stuff, and with permanent decay, there is always a market for anyhting, allowing players to specialize in what they want to make, instead of feeling like they should make consumables, because there will always be a market for them. This would creatue a self-sustaining PvP world, much like Lineage. However, while I want the players to have control over the entire world, there does need to be NPCs populating the world, expecially civiilian NPCs that you can help, merchants that sell some stuff, and the like. I would want spells to come at you like in EverQuest II, where you just learn them naturally, or find them in a book. In fact, some of the best spells could be rare loot from boss mobs, and that would give you a good reason to PvE...but I hate raiding, so I didn't figure that into my conception of this game.
I would that Developers would read these forums and see how desperate we as players are for a different sort of MMO that doesn't follow the "Formula." I would love also to hear any idea anyone else has to either expand on my ideas or develop their own conception of a game world.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
To the OP:
I agree with you completely mmo's just feel like trash at the moment.
and yes after playing lotro for awhile now ill tell you now, it plays almost exactly as WoW does
I really don't know what to recommend to you, but a few games ive enjoyed that seemed or felt diffrent from the others would be
1.Eve online, play it and you'll find out why...then probably get lost in it and quit
2.Saga or Ryzom, the only mediocore up-to-date sandbox around atm
3.Final Fantasy XI, a bit of a grind and extremely difficult overall, if lvling up isnt your main concern though you might enjoy it
4.City of Heroes/Villians, more grindin, but the fast-paced action is thrilling in my opinon.
Hope you find what your looking for.
Without a good, stable, currency an economy like you describe in the next paragraph would be unwieldy..... if not impossible to navigate.
Imagine you want to buy a new axe. You go to the axe maker and he says, I'll need some iron, some wood, some leather and access to a forge. Say you are a miner, so you can easily come up with the iron. You need wood, go to a wood gatherer only to find out..he has no use for iron atm... he wants you to bring him wood.... so you wander around looking for someone willing to trade you wood for metal.... you eventually find someone, bring your wood back, and now...where to get the leather? Rinse and repeat.
Crafting would be a horror in this scenario and no one would want to do it.
Besides, I like games where I can use the treasure I discover... I don't want to depend on human crafters to supply me my gear.... so I'd steer clear of any game that provided this sort of "virtual" world experience. (in fact, I'd prefer all games had no crafting at all, but thats a different discussion)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The first 20 levels are basically solo content (online).
After that you're let out into the big wide world until level 80.
Without a good, stable, currency an economy like you describe in the next paragraph would be unwieldy..... if not impossible to navigate.
Imagine you want to buy a new axe. You go to the axe maker and he says, I'll need some iron, some wood, some leather and access to a forge. Say you are a miner, so you can easily come up with the iron. You need wood, go to a wood gatherer only to find out..he has no use for iron atm... he wants you to bring him wood.... so you wander around looking for someone willing to trade you wood for metal.... you eventually find someone, bring your wood back, and now...where to get the leather? Rinse and repeat.
Crafting would be a horror in this scenario and no one would want to do it.
Besides, I like games where I can use the treasure I discover... I don't want to depend on human crafters to supply me my gear.... so I'd steer clear of any game that provided this sort of "virtual" world experience. (in fact, I'd prefer all games had no crafting at all, but thats a different discussion)
You are really missing the whole point of all this. The first "currencies," you will remember (if in fact, you have taken any economics course) were precious metals and gems. In almost all the games out there now, you play in a medieval or high fantasy world, and the currency is copper/silver/gold(and maybe platinum). Now, in my proposed world, things would be more like they would really be. You will never find an axe inside a wolf. The best things in this world (the real one) are handmade by master craftsman. This is simply the way of the world.
I wonder why people are so quick to assume things about other people's lives based on their opinions. It is my opinion that currency is a failed system that people keep using simply because the rest of the modern world uses it. I could go into great detail about why I think this, but I don't see any need, as this is a gaming forum. However, I would like it if you no longer made assumptions about other people because their opinions are different from yours.
At any rate, people used a barter system for a long time, but what I think would happen is that people in the game would come up with their own currency. A good online friend of mine from WoW is working on his thesis right now on synthetic economies. He is using WoW because he is more familiar with it, and can look at multiple iteration of the same economy. If you have played WoW, you will know that bartering happens a great deal there, even in a world with currency(oddly enough, gold currency and gold the metal are two very different things, which is something I hate), the most common scenario being trading the crafting of something for the materials needed to make whatever it is. People are now trading the Aldor and Scryer items with each other, trading metals for leathers, and other things of this ilk.
Now I posit that a world that functions according to natural rules of trade will work much more effectively than something someone made up as a currency system in a virtual world.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman