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I hope this was Brads retirment
lordtwisted
Member UncommonPosts: 570
Last week, Sigil Games Online, the company responsible for developing Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, was acquired by Sony Online Entertainment, the company that had previously been co-publishing the game. SOE has announced that they do not plan on making any major changes to the game, but will be working to see its performance improved
I hope this allowed you to retire Brad because you spent countless hours on the other forums telling us this wouldn't happen...Fool me once <eq> shame on you, Fool me twice <VG> shame on me. From now on anytime your name is on a game it will probablly rot on the shelves. You tend to turn out a good game, but you have a bad history of turning your companies over to SOE which tends to screw up a good game <EQ>, <SWG>, <EQOA>, <EQ2>, <VG soon to come>. So while you succeded in the game business, you have failed us as gamers.
Sorry, done ranting.
But to those that warned of this happening all along, kudos for trying to watch out for the rest of us who let our high hopes blind us.
Not so nice guy!
Comments
Actually, in this case, it was probably a good thing.
Just imagine how bad you have to be to make $OE look good.
But Brad managed it.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Brad had nothing to do with SWG, EQ2 or EQOA. And since when was EQ2 deemed to be screwed up by SOE? Its one of the best MMO's on todays market (even this site agrees with that).
Brad screwed up VG, and SOE stepped in to rescue it, according to everyone who was involved (even those who lost their jobs and have a reason to hate SOE). Lucas/SOE screwed up SWG (although the more I hear about SOE's involvement, the more I think it was more Lucas than them), and was EQ1 screwed up? Its still going strong years later... Oh and you missed MXO and Gods n Heroes
nvm
Brad's speeches scared me away. The only reason I was a fan of Vanguard was because he was the guy behind Everquest so I jumped on board. Everytime he would talk though it would sound like "Waaaaaah!" but in a twelve paragraph rambling form. Even Farlan of Dark and Light fame had his cult of fanbois, so obviously it doesn't take much.
Sadly, I could make a website tommorow, claim I was going to make a MMORPG and then throw out some revolutionary ideas and catch phrases like 3rd gen and Triple A title and people would aimlessly follow me for four or five years too.
Brad had nothing to do with SWG, EQ2 or EQOA. And since when was EQ2 deemed to be screwed up by SOE? Its one of the best MMO's on todays market (even this site agrees with that).
Brad screwed up VG, and SOE stepped in to rescue it, according to everyone who was involved (even those who lost their jobs and have a reason to hate SOE). Lucas/SOE screwed up SWG (although the more I hear about SOE's involvement, the more I think it was more Lucas than them), and was EQ1 screwed up? Its still going strong years later... Oh and you missed MXO and Gods n Heroes
EQ2 was pretty dang screwed up when it released. It wasn't "Vanguard" screwed up but screwed up just the same. Even the developers admit they went the wrong way because they we're trying to keep EQI subscribers playing EQI and make EQII completely different.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14016
However I have heard nothing but good things about EQII lately and my nostalgia meter went off when I heard that Neriak and Kunark we're making a comeback so I am giving it a go today with a brand new SK in a new evil city.
I guess I'm playing right into Smed's evil plan. After Vanguard turned out to be bad, I decided to go back to EQII. Who know's maybe one day I will leave LoTRs and EQII and go back to Vanguard but I doubt it. Vanguard didn't have any lore "catch" phrases like Kunark or the Shire or such that draws me in the first time, much less a second go around. EQII learned real quick that the best selling point of EQII is fondly remembered lore from EQI done with better graphics and a twist.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Brad's speeches scared me away. The only reason I was a fan of Vanguard was because he was the guy behind Everquest so I jumped on board. Everytime he would talk though it would sound like "Waaaaaah!" but in a twelve paragraph rambling form. Even Farlan of Dark and Light fame had his cult of fanbois, so obviously it doesn't take much.
Sadly, I could make a website tommorow, claim I was going to make a MMORPG and then throw out some revolutionary ideas and catch phrases like 3rd gen and Triple A title and people would aimlessly follow me for four or five years too.
Lol, some how I dought anyone would follow you.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Brad had nothing to do with SWG, EQ2 or EQOA. And since when was EQ2 deemed to be screwed up by SOE? Its one of the best MMO's on todays market (even this site agrees with that).
Brad screwed up VG, and SOE stepped in to rescue it, according to everyone who was involved (even those who lost their jobs and have a reason to hate SOE). Lucas/SOE screwed up SWG (although the more I hear about SOE's involvement, the more I think it was more Lucas than them), and was EQ1 screwed up? Its still going strong years later... Oh and you missed MXO and Gods n Heroes
Sorry catching up on the forums, sorry the meaning was clear to me, but poorly written, it should say...
But you have a bad h
istory of turning your companies over to SOE who tends to screw up games such as they did with EQ, SWG,EQOA, EQ2, and VG will be...
And I beta tested EQ2 then played for the first 6 months after release...yes it was pretty screwed up....SOE treats thier community very poorly. Imagine going to a friends house and setting up a board game, soon enough you find yourself doing well, so your friends change the rules on you.....you had no distinct advantage, they just didn't like the way the game is progressing. That is SOEs outlook on MMORPGs. I found rangers too be a great solo class in EQ2 and I play solo a lot due to time constraints over the last couple of years. two months into the game and 15 patches and I can not solo anything above a green con. So now rather then solo leveling and keeping up with some people, my solo leveling takes me ten times longer then other people. Was the ranger over powered? no, he was pretty worthless in groups, so made up for it by being a solo class. Well SOE decides they want to focus more on groups so takes away the solo class and makes it useless solo, or in groups......hmmmm
EQ1 was screwed up big time many times I was in a huge guild over three hundred people over three servers in EQ1. I beta tested it, I bought it and fired it up on day 1. the first couple of years of EQ is still the best gameing experience I have ever had. Brad sells out to EQ then too, and EQ adds Lucilin, and all those stupid portals every where, yeah, SOE screwed up EQ1 big time.
If anyone ever made a decent running eq server emulator I would get it in an instant, legal or not.
Not so nice guy!
I didn't hope Brad was ruined, but if he is, it was his own doing, he hyped him self up as making the best ever MMO of all time, the MMO to end all MMOs...then he sold us VG. He told us time and time again that this was his master piece his dream, that he would give SOE nothing but control of the servers.....We were all worried that SOE would mess it up if they took it over, like when brad sold EQ to them, or when Lucas arts gave creative control to the for SWG. Now we get the news that brad did it again, he saw what happens everytime SOE takes over a game, yet he sold it to them.
I said, I hope this is brads retirement". there is nothing bad there. Hell retire me, I will thank you. But if Brad maintains the following he had before this, I will be impressed. I just know that I won't be sold on a Brad McQuaid game again.
Not so nice guy!
Please give me the facts! Where am I wring in saying that Brad McQuaid can talk up a winner, but he can't deliver? The man has sold us on ,major games twice now, and then bailed on us, sold out, ran off, left us to the dogs. He isn't worth the devotion that many people have given him.
I tested EQ1, I played EQ1 for 6 years after release. I know he made a good game, then he turned it over to SOE whom mutilated the game over the span of a few years. Then has the nerve to sell us on another game, and say he isn't selling it to SOE, then do it in less then a year.
Not so nice guy!
His experience and creativity are valued in the marketplace. His business skills are an altogether different matter to consider.
To be forward, I am happy Brad is a "creative consultant" for Vanguard. I think it is a great and suitable position for him. Creative and very smart people can sometimes be difficult to manage; they need constant support, approval, and so forth. They bore quickly. However, when creative people run companies or operations, look out (literally).
I never was a Brad-fan, defender, hater, or this or that. I am not today. I admire what he has done with Everquest, and I admire what he has done from a creative-perspective with Vanguard. I do not admire what he has done as a business leader. It is very hard to manage people and run a company, though. If you do not have what it takes, it is costly.
Verant was always owned by SOE so Brad did not sell EQ it to them. LA had a big hand in SWG. EQ2 was a solid and playable game at release, too bad they misjudged what people generally wanted. But now it is a great game so SOE saved that one. So from their track record I would say that they have a pretty good shot at Vanguard. And their customer service has always treated me decent.
I can't comment on MXO as I never played it, but I heard it was messed up even before SOE got it.
Venge Sunsoar
It is very unclear today what exactly was the amount of involvement from brad mc quaid in the VG project.
To me it seems most of his time was spent hyping up what he wished the game was in his mind rather than what it really was.
Either way, from the numerous interview since the sell-out to SoE, the whole picture indicates that brad used his name and the EQ-success to credate a company where he would be "the boss", set up a few core feature of what his game should be: long travel, beautiful landscapes, a large variety of classes, and the medieval/arabian/japanese type divison of the world.
Then he let the team work without his guidance, spending his time fucking around on the net or on vacation.
I strongly believe that Brad perception of Vanguard stopped after he laid out the initial design (vision...), and he let his imagery develop from there, cut out from the dev team, believing that in the end, everything would magically blend together and the game of his dreams would suddenly appear on the market and he would be revered as "the man".
I'm sure 80% of what vanguard currently is has nothing to do with McQuaid's decisions or design.
In that regard, he is a very bad designer, because he simply didn't participate.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Please give me the facts! Where am I wring in saying that Brad McQuaid can talk up a winner, but he can't deliver? The man has sold us on ,major games twice now, and then bailed on us, sold out, ran off, left us to the dogs. He isn't worth the devotion that many people have given him.
I tested EQ1, I played EQ1 for 6 years after release. I know he made a good game, then he turned it over to SOE whom mutilated the game over the span of a few years. Then has the nerve to sell us on another game, and say he isn't selling it to SOE, then do it in less then a year.
For what it's worth, EverQuest was always an SOE game. Hell, it's right there in plain sight:
Qeynos = Sony EQ
Why in the world would Verant name one of the main cities that if the game wasn't Sony's all along?
The Jolly Green Ranger is largely responsible for much of what is bad in the genre. While EQ I was ground breaking in some ways (mainly in look and feel). It discarded muchof what was excellent in its forerunners (UO,MUDs,Meridian). Not only that it introduced stuff that was absolute s&^% in its place. The industry is only just recovering.
I hope Mr Mc Grind conciders another career and leaves development to producers that have managed to reconcile 'fun' and 'hardcore'.
I was just sent a PM asking me if I was really 34 like my profile says. This person claims I need to act my age, that I am wrong in wishing bad things for brad. well, I am adding my reply here for everyone to see that I am not someone that just stepped into this forum to stir up crap. I spent a lot of time defending this game to be shot down by brads lies. Only God shall judge me, and he shall judge me on my heart and faith. Peace!
I am actually 35 I have been testing and playing MMOs since 1994. I have worked in the industry on two ocassions, I have been invited to test games I did not solicite from Brad McQuaid, From SOE, from Origin, Blizzard, EA, 3DO, Atari, and several others.
I am experienced in many fields of the gaming industry, as to even at one point being respected for my opinions on upcomming games by several magazines.
In my post I wished no ill on Brad McQuaid or his team, or SOE. I did however comment that I hope this is Brads retirement. I did not ruin, or slander Brad in anyway. Brad has ruined his own image.
If you follow my post history I spent many months testing Vanguard, and defending Brad on his past mistakes.
I spent a lot of time combing through forums in hopes to make an impression and defend Brads image while testing this game because it had a lot of potintial which all of Brads games have.
I e-mail Brad himself and pointed out these forums and a couple others where he was being torn apart and helped convince him to come defend his game.
He came to these forums and posted a list of facts.One of these facts being that there are aspect of Vanguard that he created and have never been seen in the MMO genre. Point one out to me. This is a lie.The one thing that he dreamed up and told the beta testers about that was never seen in an MMO before was unable to be implemented in the game by the development team, so it was scratched out.
Brad told us SOE will not have any control over the game, they are only the publisher. Another lie, SOE was in the process of buying the game before it was even released, which is why it was pushed to release unfinished.
Brad McQuaid is a genius when it comes to the development of an MMO, but the man is the worst businessman I have ever seen.
If someone promised you something and then did not deliver would you still respect this person? I do. If this same person lies to you again, straight to your face. Will you still respect this person? Sure, but you will never trust him again.
Don't try to judge me off of one post. If you want to judge me, you read my past post, and watch me try to defend and glorify Vanguard to the masses on Brads behalf just be stab in that back by his blatant lies and deciet.
You want to judge me, you figure out who I am and judge me on every action, not just one post.
Brad McQuaid is nothing but a marketer in my mind now, he paints a pretty picture, then hands you an empty box.
Not so nice guy!
If only god can judge you, then what gives you the right to judge Brad Mcquaid? Rather hypocritical.
You can't place the blame of your hopes on others. You make them yourself.
You said Mcquaid made countless posts saying this wouldn't happen. I'm assuming you're refering to the selling of Sigil to SoE. Can you provide a link to the countless posts were he said he woudn't do that? I'm not saying he didn't, just that I'm unaware of him saying it.
Mcquaid was hired by Smed. From Wikipedia:
EverQuest (EQ) is a 3D fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) that was released on March 16, 1999. The original design is credited to Brad McQuaid, Steve Clover, and Bill Trost
He didn't create Varant, he was hired to work for them. He has only owned one company and that is Sigil.
Sigil isn't the first developement company that had hopes of implementing a feature and had to scrap it. It's a recurring thing in game developement. Plans change; people should stop getting thier hopes up, or putting so much faith in what a developer says while a game is in developement. Not even Blizzard was able to implement everything they said they would during developement, like the DK system they promised for ganking people lower level then you; so they implemented a different system that many people disliked. It happens.
SoE started out as the publisher and wasn't developing the game when he made the statement you mention. When the process of selling started wasn't disclosed; so saying that the company was being sold before it was released can't be confirmed nor denied. Although, in my opinion, I believe that he was likely working out a deal to sell the company after the MS split, but not because it was his plan all along. I think the company was likely going into bankruptsy after the split from MS, and Mcquaid may not have had any other choice but to sell to keep the game live. Only those involved know the truth however. Speculating is fun, when it's made clear that it's just speculating and not presented as a fact; wich is what you did.
People keep saying that Mcquaid made promises that he didn't keep; I keep asking to be directed to these promises, and no one seems to provide links to them. Ownable flying mounts, and raids are being tested; these are the only 2 things I can think of though outside of ideas that were tossed out in regard to what could be done. Ideas aren't promises though. If you found the game to not be a challenge then that is an opinion, and again a promise wasn't broeken; me, I find it challenging. Meaningfull travel was also promised, and when I have to travel and explore to find quests then to me the travel was meaningfull; if you don't agree then that's your opinion and not a broken promise. Most importantly I don't ever recall Mcquaid promising not to sell the company.
Wish Darkfall would release.
http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/search.php?searchid=5087103&pp=25&page=4
However, i digged trough MCQuaid post history, and several posts were deleted, especially the long winded ones, where Brad was swearing that Sigil would never sell out to SoE.
I recall several McQuaid intervention promising wonders and coolness, hyping the game up. Everything has been deleted. Can't provide any link.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/search.php?searchid=5087103&pp=25&page=4
However, i digged trough MCQuaid post history, and several posts were deleted, especially the long winded ones, where Brad was swearing that Sigil would never sell out to SoE.
I recall several McQuaid intervention promising wonders and coolness, hyping the game up. Everything has been deleted. Can't provide any link.
Thank you. This link is a little better though: http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?t=43537
A few things in there:
Skill Pools, Attributes, and Leveling:
So how will you be able to make your character unique among the hundreds of your class? By how you spec your skills. There will be various skills for classes. In fact, each sphere has its own set of skills that apply to its specific form of game play. Adventurers have sword and shield skill, tactical and arcane recognition, shield bash and the like. Crafters have their herbalism, their forging skill, ect. As you level, each of these stats receives a small boost in value to keep the skill concurrent with your playing level. In addition, you receive discretionary spending points to distribute them as you want. Skills increase with use as well. For example I watched the Perception skill of one dev in the Nusibe Necropolis constantly increase as the player detected spell casting, aggressive attitudes, the actions of other players, ect. But, Vanguard goes a step further, with re-specing.
Now, in some games, you can respec (redistribute) skill points on the fly, totally changing your character's load out to fit the situation or current fad of play. Vanguard takes a more limited approach, by using a limited skill pool.
Here's how it works:
Let's say you're level 10, and you've put 100 points into Two-handed Sword. But, you decide to use axe instead. You can draw 20 points (or some other arbitrary but limited value) out of Two-handed sword, and put them into Axe skill. You can't do this very often (didn't get clear confirmation on how often, whether it's once per level, once every, or what), but what it does is allow you to re-use some of those "useless" skill points to give you a head start in working into a new skill pool. Perhaps (because I don't know) you can do the same thing with the skill level in your abilities too (Abilities like Shield Bash and Sneak Attack also have associated values indicating how well you perform said action).
I do wish this was in there. Would provide more character depth. This is my largest gripe about the game because it's what I was most looking forward to. Not going to get bent out of shape over it though. Dunno if SoE will impliment it, hope they do though.
Windows – Player windows and group windows will have real-time rendered character faces displayed. In other words, your actual face that you created in your character creation will be shown in the appropriate windows. No more guessing if XRBSUT is male of female…you'll see his or her portrait in your display windows.
I like the class emblems better. I can look at my group and know exactly what everyone is. Meh, not a big deal, and can be added if they wanted to.
4.4 - Mounted Combat?
Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara
Only until when we get true mounted combat (whether on the ground or, later, in the air) implemented, which as noted by other posters per previous posts by me, may or may not be implemented fully by launch. But it's definitely of matter of 'when' and not 'if'.
This I look forward to. Not in yet, but I believe it will get added.
Vartu Faroth: Currently there are 4 continents, some of which aren't really continents but islands or a string of islands. Thestra, Qalia, Kojan, and Lothenland are the main ones you will come to know. Thestra and Qalia being two largest land masses and starting points. Kojan is the third large land mass and starting point, though not as large as Thestra and Qalia. Lochenland is rumoed to be a high level island. Brad McQuaid gives us something to chew on the matter in this post.
Who said something about the other 7 continents? All four are there I believe, the last one is locked out. I could be wrong.
Vartu Faroth: First I'll talk a little about Artificial Intelligence (AI). This aspect gets better and better with each game but by no means is it a huge leap from game to game either. Vanguard seems to be taking a larger leap into the game mechanics that the previous second generation and first generation MMO's couldn't. Mobs, Non-Player Characters (NPCs), and "Bosses" in previous games always seem to lack the AI needed to make you believe the mobs around you know what's going on. The biggest problem with a lack of AI in mob encounters is it gives a sense of text book content.
What I mean by this is that each time you go into combat with creatures in any game, the style of fighting is pretty much text book in its execution. You know what the mob is going to do about 90% of the time before it does it, so you know how to beat it every time by doing the exact same thing. That gives no diversity in the way you fight a mob. The combat system in Vanguard, which I'll go more into next, allows you do a combo of various moves, techniques, and tactics. The way AI fits into this is that the mob you are fighting can learn from what you do. Basically, this means, if you do something once, don't be so sure it'll work again. A mob that can "learn" per se is a large leap in its own right. Further, I suspect this experience-driven combat is only a taste of what is to come from Sigil's AI achievements.
Don't think this was fully realised before release. Not really a big deal to me. Some of the mobs are pretty frigin tough to begin with. The Tiberian (?) wolves come to mind.
19.2 - Fellowships, a revolutionary idea...
I believe they are working on this at the moment, along with the raid content and ownable flying mounts.
The info is over a year old, and like I said before, things change. Also it's stated throughout the posts, on several occations, to take the information with a grain of salt, basically. In otherwords, just because they say it's something they would like to impliment, it doesn't mean it will get implimented.
There are very little promises being made, and more ideas and desires being tossed out by the devs. Telling the fan base what they would "like" to do isn't a promise.
A saying keeps coming to mind. Promises are made to be broken.
Wish Darkfall would release.
If only god can judge you, then what gives you the right to judge Brad Mcquaid? Rather hypocritical.
You can't place the blame of your hopes on others. You make them yourself.
You said Mcquaid made countless posts saying this wouldn't happen. I'm assuming you're refering to the selling of Sigil to SoE. Can you provide a link to the countless posts were he said he woudn't do that? I'm not saying he didn't, just that I'm unaware of him saying it.
Mcquaid was hired by Smed. From Wikipedia:
EverQuest (EQ) is a 3D fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) that was released on March 16, 1999. The original design is credited to Brad McQuaid, Steve Clover, and Bill Trost
He didn't create Varant, he was hired to work for them. He has only owned one company and that is Sigil.
Sigil isn't the first developement company that had hopes of implementing a feature and had to scrap it. It's a recurring thing in game developement. Plans change; people should stop getting thier hopes up, or putting so much faith in what a developer says while a game is in developement. Not even Blizzard was able to implement everything they said they would during developement, like the DK system they promised for ganking people lower level then you; so they implemented a different system that many people disliked. It happens.
SoE started out as the publisher and wasn't developing the game when he made the statement you mention. When the process of selling started wasn't disclosed; so saying that the company was being sold before it was released can't be confirmed nor denied. Although, in my opinion, I believe that he was likely working out a deal to sell the company after the MS split, but not because it was his plan all along. I think the company was likely going into bankruptsy after the split from MS, and Mcquaid may not have had any other choice but to sell to keep the game live. Only those involved know the truth however. Speculating is fun, when it's made clear that it's just speculating and not presented as a fact; wich is what you did.
People keep saying that Mcquaid made promises that he didn't keep; I keep asking to be directed to these promises, and no one seems to provide links to them. Ownable flying mounts, and raids are being tested; these are the only 2 things I can think of though outside of ideas that were tossed out in regard to what could be done. Ideas aren't promises though. If you found the game to not be a challenge then that is an opinion, and again a promise wasn't broeken; me, I find it challenging. Meaningfull travel was also promised, and when I have to travel and explore to find quests then to me the travel was meaningfull; if you don't agree then that's your opinion and not a broken promise. Most importantly I don't ever recall Mcquaid promising not to sell the company.
Wikiopedia is hardly an unbiased source of information from which to draw conclusions expecially on a subject as emotive as vanguard. Perhaps you ought to read the exit interviews of sigil employees (of which there are plenty of links around) or even read the late night interview given by Brad himself where he spins (explains) how it was all microsofts fault. Brad has made many comments in the past the most recent one that I can recall is that SOE would never influence the game and were only providing the publishing and tech support for the game.
To bash someone else for their opinions when all YOU have to offer is opinion (and poorly based at that) is hypocritic at best, and perhaps spin control at the worst looking at your join date.
Btw anyone who has to resort to PM's to insult someone is a slimeball that doesn't even deserve forum posting priviges.