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crafting
Gallaid
Member Posts: 118
how is the crafting in this game. Is there such a thing as a pure crafter?? Is the a market drivin by the crafters?? and how is the pvp??
Comments
IMO, crafting is horrible. It's the most tedious form of crafting I have ever seen. You actually work your ass off for minimal results. I kid you not, it is not fun whatsoever and it was the core reason why I left the game (despite the horrible game engine, core code, etc).
One day while I was mindlessly clicking away I thought to myself "WTF am I doing this for?"
Here's a lowdown of why I do not like crafting in this game:
1. You have to go through four steps to make one piece of one major part of one item. Each step is anywhere from 2 to 10 clicks. That's about 32 to 40 clicks to make one small piece of a bigger item. (step one and four takes about 2 clicks. The middle steps takes at least 10).
Now imagine each cycle about 45 times per lvl. The first item of that design will grant you XP. However, if you repeat that item you get no XP. You only get about two items to create per level so as you can see, you simply cannot grind your way to another level. You must do Work Orders.
These work orders sucks. I mean, they suck more than my blind Shop teacher in seventh grade. You grind out these work orders for minimal XP, praying that you hit lvl 26. Level 26 is the magical number because that's when the majority of crafters start to make money off of the trash they make.
I was a full time crafter. I have played literally every payed to played MMO in the Western (and Eastern Hemisphere) and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt it was the worse rewarding MMO career I had ever made (being a crafter).
The PvP is ok in this game. Well...not really that good but it doesn't suck either. Vanguard just wasn't designed for PvP play. You can tell the developers did not "develop" this area. They just threw it in there.
I am being as fair as I can in my opinions lol. I hate this game. I really do. So my answers will be biased. I hated how the company ripped off the consumer and then cry baby Brad had his whole damn company fired in the company parking lot last Friday (except for four or five employees). To me, Brad is no different to what he did to his company as Colton did to Loud Ant Software. He knew on launch that where he game was going financially and he kept it all hush hush even to his own dedicated employees. Sigil Devs worked their asses off and Brad fired them and sold the game to another company. He didn't even have the guts to fire them in person. He hired someone to do it for him.
If you wanna play this game, then would I suggest you to wait for the trial? Give it two weeks. I am sure SoE will be busting out a free trial very soon. Just wait for the trial. I would seriously recommend staying away from this one unless you can get it for free (trial)
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Now for crafting you get to choose from three classes and once you hit level 11 you get to specialize
Blacksmithing - Weaponsmith / armoursmith
Outfitter - Leatherworker / outfitter
Artificer - Minerologist / carpenter
now once you hit 11 and specialize you tend to stick to it (this means setting the other skill to - to reclaim points from it)
then for every 10 levels you get to take quests to increase your crafting ranking and unlocking recipes from the various vendors
The easiest way to obtain crafting XP is via WO, now work orders mean working smarter not harder, so for example on lower levels you will find yourself doing darkblue WO (easy) as you have greater success at completing them as your skills are so low
Once you hit 25 you will find your self doing moderate or difficult WO as you maximise XP gain and also increase chances of getting rare items (rare items can be sueful components, tools or even recipes)
Now as well as this there are 3 distinct styles to learn, Thestran,Kojan and Qalian, the way to learn these is to go to each major city and activate the quests for them, sometimes while you are searching you will find quests that allow you to obtain heroic gear that further boosts your tats and increase your success at completing WO, this sadly means you will spend time grinding faction with WO in order to learn the recipes you want
Once you hit 25 you are able to complete a quest line in each major city that allies you to certain crafter factions, these can range from society of inventers to the Cabal, once you join these you obtain heroic/legendary items and also gain the ability to craft unique faction items with them
now at level 11 you specialise in you chosen class, this can be self explanatory like Armorsmith to carpenter and outfitters
now minerologists create Focuses, disposible slate items, jewelery and bricks for houses
Outfitters will makes cloaks, bags, crafting and harvesting gear etc
you also gain the abilities to deconstruct items you crafter can make in order to obtain required resources (some crafters make their money this way)
Now you tend to find harvesting closely tied into the crafters class, so minerologists have Quarry as primary, Blacksmith Mining and outfitter either reaping or skinning depending what they want
now i am a level 24 minerologist in the game, i enjoy crafting but its not the make or break of the game for me, i find it fun to kill time while waiting for friends to turn up, to make quick money by grinding WO out and selling loot i obtain
but i have to agree that i would suggest getting buddy key (GL on that) or do as i did, i spent teh money i would have wasted on beer and stuff to get the game and even for its bugs i quite enjoy it
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Crafting is difficult and tedious to level up in, but it can be interesting to actually make things. I am inclined to agree with Enigma when it comes to the mind-numbing tedium of work orders, but I knew what I was getting into before I started. On the other hand, I enjoy actually making things that can be useful, and some useful things are in rather high demand. Boats and housing components come to mind as crafted items in high demand. They both require lots of materials, and the main recipes are acquired through quests.
It is possible to be a pure crafter, but you will probably need a lot of good friends to be successful as a pure crafter. Harvesting is considered an adventuring skill. There are some harvesting areas that do not have aggressive mobs nearby to prey on the pure crafter, but there are not many of them. I don't get the impression that resources are easy to obtain or cheap on the brokers, but since I harvest most of my own and sell what I can't use, I'm not the most reliable witness for that.
Crafters drive the market for some items, like I said. In addition to the big-ticket items, some consumables and miscellaneous items sell rather well. Supply of a lot of things is limited by their need for dropped items. For example, consumable invisibility carvings sell well but need a dropped item each and a dropped permanent recipe. For another example, bows need dropped items to craft at all, and some dropped rare additives to fetch good coin. I have made enough coin selling mundane arrows and bolts to get by. These don't take many resources for the most proficient crafters (eg, 1 wood timber can be made into 600 arrows, with luck), so they are great to put on the broker if you have nothing better and few resources.
The tedium of work orders, which are the only effective means of acquiring experience for advancement and faction for particular recipes, is well-understood by the developers. There is no short-term solution, and very likely no long-term solution, because most development resources are going into bug fixing, engine improvement, and adventuring content. The tedium is to some extent by design, because there is no risk of loss of experience, very low risk of loss of goods without some benefit, and the ability to drop the activity at any time and pick it up later. What's missing is a way of accumulating substantial experience without the tedium, such as questing, for those who can afford to concentrate. If you can put up with the tedium of experience and faction grind, you can become one of the few who can make some highly-demanded items.
Just to clarify, the colour of the Work Orders are always relative to your level, so a blue WO will always be easy no matter what level you are, white always moderate and yellow always dificult - you dont become better able to do white and yellows as you level up.
I dont have time just at the minute to give you a decent explanation of my opinion of crafting OP, all i'll say for now is that Im a 30 carpenter myself and craft often - and you should check out this site:
www.vanguardcrafters.com/forum
complications and switching toolbelts get on my nerves. complications are just way to frequent 6-10 comps on a lt blue WO is silly... not to mention some of them complications dont make sense (throw oil on a fire?!?!11?)
The rewards at lower levels suck ive made it to lvl 10ish in blacksmith and artificer and doing workorders that take 15+minutes with dozens of complications all to earn a little exp and like 10copper. yippee!
a dozen subcombines to craft one copper piece of worthless vendor trash doesn not equal fun.
lol ok course I never like crafting in MMO's the closest I came to enjoying crafting was in EQ2 AFTER the crafting revamp.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
I tend to agree with the first posters comments about crafting, it is by far the worse crafting dynamic I have ever did in any game.
Currently I am level 30 Blacksmith/Armorsmith and I have to say if your wrists don't give out on you before your enthusiasm for actually making it to level 50 then more than likely you are botting it or have a monkey in a cage doing it for you.
They just put in a correction patch that was around for almost 2 months (so people that started crafting 2 months ago has a big advantage) that has made it where the crafters now have to wear items that are at their level and not at their equipment expertise, in doing this the complications you get from crafting even a basic item becomes a nuiscance (can range from 9-12 complications sometimes).
As far as the economy goes, I would have to say it is governed by crafters in the game, weaponmith, Armorsmith and ship makers being the biggest coin makers ingame (Iron upgraded armors sell for 1-2 platinum now). Another thing about crafting that really disappointed me was the upgrade recipes that you have to earn from Work orders as rare drops. These are not frequent enough for every Armor/Weaponsmiht to get and those that had gottent the recipes before the changes (2 months ago) have a very good advantage on crafters that started late in the game (due to them making upgrades dropped instead of learned recipes).
I think the crafting in this game is the most $%^ed up ever in a MMO and you can tell it took Silus every bit of a month to come up with the lazy , half assed way to grind it in the game/rant off.
Crafting is awesome fun, and yes you can be just a pre crafting nothing else. Although you feel a bit more confident travelling around if you can defend youself.
Its very indepth and very rewarding. Im an armorsmith and love making armor for my guildies.
Theres heaps of dirrerent types of crafters, artificers, blacksmiths outfitters etc
When you get to level 11 you need to specialise ie: Blacksmith has to make a choice, armorsmith or weaponsmith.
I wanted to be able to make all 3 continent styles of armor so I had to travel around learning the different styles. My brother makes boats. Its great seeing someone wearing armor thats made by you.
Alot of people i know do nothing but craft, I like to do a bit of adventureing, harvesting and crafting.
Somethings require items crafted by a few different crafters, eg, boats need sails by an outfitter, fasteners, mast mount by a blacksmith. Also my house required the help of a minerologist to make the bricks, carpender to make the wood panels, someoen to make the fireglass windows. Yeah its a whoel community thing,
I jump on the crafting chat channel and craft for hours. Best crafting in a game i have seen. as you level up you can get better tools and clothes etc of course.
The change needed to be made because you could use any tool before which wasnt right. I can still get A grade doing moderates easily and you can still get pretty nice gear.
Actually the main thing that affects the currency imo is harvesters, the more out there, the more getting rares etc the less crafters can buy for. I mean If you make a boat that needs 5 arid timbers, they can sell for 3 to 8 gold each, so that really determines the price of boats. Same as armor, I can only make leet armor if i use rares there fore i can only sell my armor for at least what i paid for the rare.
Join an awesome guild and the community helps eachover, thats the best way to avoid economy changes.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Im enjoying the crafting in VG, and im one who really doesnt do the crafting thing in mmorpgs. I like the fact you can dye stuff, add stats via imbuing dusts etc.
Im only a level 13 carpenter thus far, but im still enjoying it.
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
Dude I think its time you gave up flaming Vanguard, It's time for you to get over it and move on.
We get it, it ran bad in beta on you crappy PC, but you dont need to hate the game for the rest of your life, its not personal dude. You dont like a game, geat: the solution DONT PLAY IT. Go and find something else to play or even something else to whinge about.
I really don't know wh yits so personal, its like it really affects you deeply that you dont like the game. Time to really get over it!
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
Dude I think its time you gave up flaming Vanguard, It's time for you to get over it and move on.
We get it, it ran bad in beta on you crappy PC, but you dont need to hate the game for the rest of your life, its not personal dude. You dont like a game, geat: the solution DONT PLAY IT. Go and find something else to play or even something else to whinge about.
I really don't know wh yits so personal, its like it really affects you deeply that you dont like the game. Time to really get over it!
Just because he doesnt like the amount of clicking/complications doesnt mean he hates the game, or that he has a crappy PC......... I think we all can agree there is a good amount of clicking in the crafting system, some love it, some hate it. You just happen to be in the group that loves it, no need to start insulting his PC over it
If only i could find a troll with a tin foil hat. =(
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
Dude I think its time you gave up flaming Vanguard, It's time for you to get over it and move on.
We get it, it ran bad in beta on you crappy PC, but you dont need to hate the game for the rest of your life, its not personal dude. You dont like a game, geat: the solution DONT PLAY IT. Go and find something else to play or even something else to whinge about.
I really don't know wh yits so personal, its like it really affects you deeply that you dont like the game. Time to really get over it!
hmm its personal because i waisted a hundred bucks on this game. Stupid on my part? Yes. But Sigil going under and loosing 95% of it's personnel makes it so I don't really have to argue with you whether or not its a great game. I think in the light of recent events, it's pretty obvious.
But look. If you like it, then that's awesome. Way to go. But here's the thing....
I think the game sucks. If someone asks what people think about various aspects then Im going to say what I think about it due to my involvement in the game.
If you don't like it or cannot handle it then don't read my posts. Im throwing down my opinions. And guess what? Until this forum section is closed down, I will continue to do so.
It's nothing personal with you. If you like it, great. You wont see me on a thread putting down someone who likes the game. You just wont. That's not what I am about.
But if someone asks what people think about something of the game, you bet Betty Ford's rosey red a** Im gonna speak out. I mean...if you ordered a cheeseburger and you bit into it finding a big turd and unfinished meat you're gonna speak your mind...especially if someone asks "Hey...have you guys seen this Fast Food joint? What's the cheeseburgers like?"
So...if you don't like what I have to say just dont read it. It'll be ok.
Bottomline:
Crafting sucks harcore in this game. But then again, Flem likes it. Will you see me bust his chops and troll him? no of couse not. and vice versa should be the same.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
Dude I think its time you gave up flaming Vanguard, It's time for you to get over it and move on.
We get it, it ran bad in beta on you crappy PC, but you dont need to hate the game for the rest of your life, its not personal dude. You dont like a game, geat: the solution DONT PLAY IT. Go and find something else to play or even something else to whinge about.
I really don't know wh yits so personal, its like it really affects you deeply that you dont like the game. Time to really get over it!
He has a right to his opinion, rather it is a good or bad one, I like Vanguard but every.. and I mean every dynamic in the game is based around grinding shit. I'm not gonna lie I recently started enjoying crafting after I got a crafting bot program and will happily use it to 50 until they change the amount of XP you get or resolve the 500 clicks I gotta do while crafting something.
And far as the cheating speech goes, if they didn't make this game so mind numbingly "wristcentric" I wouldn't have to worry about #$%^ing my wrist up by doing 500 million workorders that give bull$%^& rewards.
Wait until you hit 22. Ill mail you my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome bandages lol. Just give me a hollar.
I agree the clicking is a bit much, but the fact that you can hotkey them would make it better. I haven't set them up myself yet but a guildie swears that hotkeying them makes things easier.
Start craft (click) - Mount item to be crafted (click)
Cleaning (click) - opens three options ------ Quick wash, Solvent, blah blah blah (click) - repeat till max progress reached
Sanding (click) - opens more options like above (click) - repeat till progress maxed
something else (click) - opens even more as stated (click) - repeat till maxed
End craft (click) - opens a few options (click) and it ends
Don't forget complications that pop up off to the right of the crafting template they = more clicks.
You are given crafting points based on your level I think you start with 2000 and have three steps to the craft in between start and finish. When you hit 21 you get 2500 points and 4 steps, this keeps going up as you progress. The points are used to finish the product and spent in the steps above, you may use them to raise the progress of the craft or the quality of the item.
With the cleaning step mentioned above you are given three options, one will be to raise the progress a lot at 125 points per use, one to raise quality at 100 points per, and one to raise both a little at 100 points per. You will stand in front of a table of your respective craft trade and click buttons for hours. It is a race to finish the craft with the highest quality possible.
I quit crafting at level 26 and yeah .... unless you like standing still and clicking for hours on end crafting is not for you.
The crafting in "Vanguard" is not even 2% as involved or complex as pre CU/CU crafting was in SWG, it is very simplex with no experimentation always the same outcome (either you fail with a "D" grade get mediorce crafted items "C" through "B" or a pristine item "A", and to boot, you don't even need a full "A" grade item.
The complications are pretty much like the pre CU/CU smuggler "Slicing" you can have all the best gear, ore and such and still be very..very much dependent on the "Sigil gods' coding in not getting excessive complications which could mess up your WO or crafted item. I found out last week that secondary components in crafting had absolutely no affect on my primary item (which did not make any sense to me).
I'll give you an example of this, made some rare armor tier 2 about 3 days ago and had to make I think it was a "imbalanced metal ribbing". I crafted this as a "D' item and used it as an attachment in making my armor and still got a "A" grade.
Of late I have been letting my 11 year old son grind "work orders" for me and found out that he could work through the complications without fixing them and still gain levels and XP (imagine that). Crafting in Vanguard again, is not in depth, not anything SWG pre CU and CU had to offer and pretty much for the "Hardcore dummies" (those that think that clicking is complex). As you can see I can go on and on about this irritating and smashed together dynamic/rant off (just dinged level 23 crafter armorsmith)
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eh sorta but not really.
SWG you had a series of items you mine for and add into the ingrediant area and then create it. So it's sorta similiar that way. He's saying the clicking is a bit much because that's all you do when you harvest. You just click these little tiny icons on the top middle of your screen as you repeat the same animation motions.
In SWG you click as well but in Vanguard I would be conservative to say you click about twice as much to make one item versus SWG.
One major difference between SWG and Vanguard crafting; in SWG, you could experiment with your creations to make them more durable, reliable, more bonuses, etc as well as have various ingrediants you can add to increase your odds of making a better product. In Vanguard it's just a mindless amount of clicking with just A, B, C, D results...just depends on how good your gear is and how strong your index (clicking) finger is. SWG was about 300% more complex than Vanguard in terms of crafting in Pre-Combat upgrade.
I was a HUGE fan of SWG crafting. I loved it. Before the Combat upgrade, I was a Master Armorsmith and them Master Shipwright. But in Vanguard (to me) it was just more of a headache and a job (where you paid them) to make anything worthwhile. Like I said....wait for a trial (they'll come out with one any week now) and then try it.
Who knows, you may love it.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Actually yeah higher level items there is a difference between A grade and 100% A grade. You can only get Pristine with 100%
and yeah your 11 year old kid and get xp grinding WO. but doing moderates & hard batches/sets to get A grade for rares you cant really ignore Comps.
You know for the amount of work you do in the game for WO to try and get a rare is not even worth it to me. Yesterday, I grinded some Iron work orders (T3) all the way to 100% "A" grade got my rare bags and guess what was in them?
Now this was out of 20 rare 5 item WO (all in the same bag) now is this really worth crafting 100 items for? I am trying not to discourage the original poster from joining Vanguard getting in and crafting but ,the crafting aspect of the game needs more work than what the adv and diplomacy does in this game.
I just don't want him coming in the game expecting to receive xp like in SWG and actually progress on a consistant basis (xp does not scale correctly with the crafting levels either). Just expect the crafting in Vanguard to be overly irritating more than anything (due to clicking, no quests with pertanent xp or lack of custimization).