I've been telling you guys, and telling you. You guys wouldn't listen to me... oh no. Blizzard is taking action, step by step. First it was software companies that make the bots and provide for the gold spammers. Although no definite action has been decided yet, as it is still in litigation, it will be decided soon. If you need that link, I'll dig it up, it's just not at the top of my mind atm.
WoW specifically said in their article, "We have programmed steps within the game to ELIMINATE gold spamming", and in litigation now to elimate botting.
It's a fluff cease and decease letter. They would never actually file a law suit against someone like IGE which has the ability to hire very expensive trial lawyers. Then again IGE doesn't spam you in game which is the crux of Blizzard's compliant against Peons4Hire. So yeah they know how to scare the little guys who act annoyingly in game. They haven't done a thing to the gold buy or selling industry. If anything they've help IGE and eliminated the competition that advertises in game instead of out like IGE.
They must have some pretty damn good lawyers to be able to change what it says in the EULA.
And Gold Farmers do more than just sell people gold for their mount. They power level and honor grind characters, which is also very obviously against the TOS and EULA.
EULA's are not legally binding contracts as that would require that they adhere to local, federal, and international consumer rights laws. I'd wager a good 99% of most EULA's would never hold up in a court case.
Here's a hint for those of you who don't understand what "Gold/Plat Sellers" are really selling. They are selling time. They sell the time it takes to farm in game currency. They freely hand over this in game currency in a trade but require you to pay them for their real world time they spent farming.
The items in game never leave the server and neither do "Gold/Plat Farmers" claim ownership of said items because they have no direct control over the server itself or desire to claim they own these items. There is no case Blizzard could make against someone like IGE that would hold it's own weight in court and withstand the scrutiny of consumer rights laws probing of their EULA/TOS let alone deal with the property rights issue, age of consent issues, and other problems that would eventually require government regulation and in some cases taxes.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by bahamut1 I've been telling you guys, and telling you. You guys wouldn't listen to me... oh no. Blizzard is taking action, step by step. First it was software companies that make the bots and provide for the gold spammers. Although no definite action has been decided yet, as it is still in litigation, it will be decided soon. If you need that link, I'll dig it up, it's just not at the top of my mind atm. WoW specifically said in their article, "We have programmed steps within the game to ELIMINATE gold spamming", and in litigation now to elimate botting. Here's the LAW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA Good for Blizzard, and I wish them well. Eliminate cheaters, I'm tired of them ruining my games.
That will work only against people who are backward engineering and cracking the game code and then distribute their work and charge money for it. That won't work for sweatshop gold/plat sellers who use people and accounts to farm gold.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Well they have the money to waste for sure. This lawsuit has no chance. It's a total waste of money and wast of our judiciary. There are too many precedents and they will never win. Just think of telemarketers using the telephone services. They pay the phone company and therefore their ok. These guys pay for their accounts and it ok. There was a decision long ago i forget the ruling but it had to do with forcing telephone consumers to only use that telephones services and it was lost. Selling gold is legal and there's not a damn thing Blizzard can do to change it. Precedent has already been set.
Originally posted by M1sf1t EULA's are not legally binding contracts as that would require that they adhere to local, federal, and international consumer rights laws. I'd wager a good 99% of most EULA's would never hold up in a court case.
By signing TOUs and EULAs, Appellants expressly relinquished their rights to reverse engineer. Summary judgment on this issue was properly granted in favor of Blizzard and Vivendi.
Blizzard's already used a EULA in a case, and won. I don't see why gold selling would differ to reverse engineering in that they're both violations of Blizzard's EULA. If you don't agree to the EULA/TOU, don't play the game.
Good Blizzard, I hope they take Peons4hire to court and squeeze every penny from them.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Are you going to mention the other two district court cases where Eula's were ruled not legally binding or shall I?
The difference between gold selling and reverse engineering, is that reverse engineering is illegal under copywright law and gold selling is not.
Tellingly to my mind a gold selling company had the balls to go to court over it's right to sell gold. Although we shall never know the outcome of that dropped case, considering the financial muscle of this kind of outfit versus a giant publishing company and the price of legal representation they clearly thought they were going to win without too much trouble.
With all the fuss being made about gold selling if companies like Blizzard thought they had any legal chance of shutting them down through the courts whatsoever they would have done so long long ago. It's a Pandora's Box they are all too afraid of opening. It won't go their way and they know it.
I think Blizzard could make a good case to get them disbarred from their ISP for spamming mind you, under ISP's standard fair use clauses.
Originally posted by baff Lol! Lets do this one again Ico! Are you going to mention the other two cases where Eula's were ruled not legally binding or shall I.
Lol, I was just thinking about that thread; very fun discussion. : )
I don't recall the two cases, but I do remember reading them. Unfortunately, the thread was locked before I could reply.
If Blizzard v Peons4hire (ok, what judge won't let that happen out of good comedy) it'll make for a good discussion on EULA validity. Unfortunately, the court system is dreadfully slow.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
heh they probably get payments from the big goldselling companies and because the small goldselling companies can't afford to do that then they close em down so that at least it will be the big companies getting the business. Win-win situation for IGE and Blizzard. Of course, I could just be being cynical.
Wow is all you can say that the courts are actaually getting hit by this stuff. A small Web based company vs BLIZZARD. Seems like another unfair case just becasue of popularity. Needless to say MJ and OJ are quite similar to this i belive. Its all about the money. Wheater it is fake or real everything is all about the money.
Just a thought, but wouldn't all any MMO company have to do is claim that the gold in their game is their intellectual property? If they did that then wouldn't gold selling be considered theft? I don't know, maybe I'm way off the marker here.
You are. :P First, no "intellectual property" leaves the ownership of Blizzard. Second, without the goldseller's "time and effort", the intellectual property wouldn't even exist in the first place. Therefore, a logical argument is made about who really owns the virtual items in question. Is it Blizzard because it's their intellectual property, or is it the gold sellers, who legitimately created the gold or whatever due to their work farming? This has been the bottom line of this issue for some time now and the single most important reason why MMO devs don't take these companies to court. They might very well lose and the courts may very well force the MMO dev to remove the stipulation in the EULA banning virtual item sales.
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner this issue goes to court the better. I'm a seller myself, and the sooner the law is on my side, the sooner the dorks at Blizzard (or any other MMO) will be legally obligated to facilitate a method for players to sell gold/items legitimately.
I hope Blizzard goes after all of them. Just a bunch of low lifes.
IGN does not spam in game, so be a bit hard to file a lawsuit like this against them. Secondly they are in essence breaking the law just selling things that do not belong to them. Pretty sure theft of any type is against the law. If Blizzard had something on them, they would not hessitate to go after them.
I hope Blizzard goes after all of them. Just a bunch of low lifes. IGN does not spam in game, so be a bit hard to file a lawsuit like this against them. Secondly they are in essence breaking the law just selling things that do not belong to them. Pretty sure theft of any type is against the law. If Blizzard had something on them, they would not hessitate to go after them.
This is only theft if Blizzard owns all of it's players spare time.
i hope something comes from this, tired of being harassed 10x a day by these scum bags. unlike the other gold farming tools these guys spam in mail over and over send tells to everyone and even SHOUT in all channels over and over.and you CAN'T ignore them you put "KKJHJGH" on ignore you get spammed by "IUYJFVJ" 2 min. later and a mail from "kjhgfgui". its relentless all day everyday.
like some one else said i had to go out and download "Spamsentry" wich is GREAT, blocks them and i can one click report them. it copy and pastes the tell/mail/shout/ect the thing is i shouldn't have to down load some mod to not be harassed by some PoS gold farmer.
the harassment factor should be enough for something to come of it
Currently the EULA and TOS agreed to by the players are not legally binding agreements and this is where the change will come in future games if devs are truely interested in stopping the gold sellers.
However I think we can all agree that devs will always have split motives on this issue.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I've been telling you guys, and telling you. You guys wouldn't listen to me... oh no. Blizzard is taking action, step by step. First it was software companies that make the bots and provide for the gold spammers. Although no definite action has been decided yet, as it is still in litigation, it will be decided soon. If you need that link, I'll dig it up, it's just not at the top of my mind atm.
WoW specifically said in their article, "We have programmed steps within the game to ELIMINATE gold spamming", and in litigation now to elimate botting.
Good for Blizzard, and I wish them well. Eliminate cheaters, I'm tired of them ruining my games.
That will work only against people who are backward engineering and cracking the game code and then distribute their work and charge money for it. That won't work for sweatshop gold/plat sellers who use people and accounts to farm gold.
READ IT!! Don't just make up crap.
It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or SERVICES that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself. It also heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 8, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended title 17 of the U.S. Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of Online Providers from copyright infringement by their users.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Suing a single gold seller? Its just a token effort to get forum posts like these across gaming websites.
You obviously not aware of what peon4hire are doing in WOW. Yes it's just 1 gold seller but it's the major spammer in the game. I would say 90% of the spamming you get in WOW is from them.
heres my thought on buying gold from people: payin someone to play the game for you is the saddest thing i ever heard of. if you are too lazy to play a COMPUTER GAME thats pretty sad. i wouldnt even know what to call these people. its like they are wannabe no life loosers or somthin.
anyways people doin this doesnt bother me. what bothers me is the spam they do. i get one every 2 minutes its annoying. they need to get that out of the game.
It seems crazy that someone would spam ads in game. The game cost $50, after they spam ads for a little while they end up banned forever. $50 for a chance to spam a few people doesn't seem very profitable.
I've never seen gold sellers spam before in any mmorpg.
Does WoW give free trials without asking for credit card information or something?
Comments
I've been telling you guys, and telling you. You guys wouldn't listen to me... oh no. Blizzard is taking action, step by step. First it was software companies that make the bots and provide for the gold spammers. Although no definite action has been decided yet, as it is still in litigation, it will be decided soon. If you need that link, I'll dig it up, it's just not at the top of my mind atm.
WoW specifically said in their article, "We have programmed steps within the game to ELIMINATE gold spamming", and in litigation now to elimate botting.
Here's the LAW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
Good for Blizzard, and I wish them well. Eliminate cheaters, I'm tired of them ruining my games.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
EULA's are not legally binding contracts as that would require that they adhere to local, federal, and international consumer rights laws. I'd wager a good 99% of most EULA's would never hold up in a court case.
Here's a hint for those of you who don't understand what "Gold/Plat Sellers" are really selling. They are selling time. They sell the time it takes to farm in game currency. They freely hand over this in game currency in a trade but require you to pay them for their real world time they spent farming.
The items in game never leave the server and neither do "Gold/Plat Farmers" claim ownership of said items because they have no direct control over the server itself or desire to claim they own these items. There is no case Blizzard could make against someone like IGE that would hold it's own weight in court and withstand the scrutiny of consumer rights laws probing of their EULA/TOS let alone deal with the property rights issue, age of consent issues, and other problems that would eventually require government regulation and in some cases taxes.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
That will work only against people who are backward engineering and cracking the game code and then distribute their work and charge money for it. That won't work for sweatshop gold/plat sellers who use people and accounts to farm gold.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Blizzard v Bnetd
By signing TOUs and EULAs, Appellants expressly relinquished their rights to reverse engineer. Summary judgment on this issue was properly granted in favor of Blizzard and Vivendi.
Blizzard's already used a EULA in a case, and won. I don't see why gold selling would differ to reverse engineering in that they're both violations of Blizzard's EULA. If you don't agree to the EULA/TOU, don't play the game.
Good Blizzard, I hope they take Peons4hire to court and squeeze every penny from them.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Lol!
Lets do this one again Ico!
Are you going to mention the other two district court cases where Eula's were ruled not legally binding or shall I?
The difference between gold selling and reverse engineering, is that reverse engineering is illegal under copywright law and gold selling is not.
Tellingly to my mind a gold selling company had the balls to go to court over it's right to sell gold. Although we shall never know the outcome of that dropped case, considering the financial muscle of this kind of outfit versus a giant publishing company and the price of legal representation they clearly thought they were going to win without too much trouble.
With all the fuss being made about gold selling if companies like Blizzard thought they had any legal chance of shutting them down through the courts whatsoever they would have done so long long ago. It's a Pandora's Box they are all too afraid of opening. It won't go their way and they know it.
I think Blizzard could make a good case to get them disbarred from their ISP for spamming mind you, under ISP's standard fair use clauses.
Lol, I was just thinking about that thread; very fun discussion. : )
I don't recall the two cases, but I do remember reading them. Unfortunately, the thread was locked before I could reply.
If Blizzard v Peons4hire (ok, what judge won't let that happen out of good comedy) it'll make for a good discussion on EULA validity. Unfortunately, the court system is dreadfully slow.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
heh they probably get payments from the big goldselling companies and because the small goldselling companies can't afford to do that then they close em down so that at least it will be the big companies getting the business. Win-win situation for IGE and Blizzard. Of course, I could just be being cynical.
I'm all for Blizzard taking this to court - they have the cash to just grind the peons under the weight of the legal system.
It'd cost more than the gold sellers have to defend against this.
Which would be fine by me!
Wow is all you can say that the courts are actaually getting hit by this stuff. A small Web based company vs BLIZZARD. Seems like another unfair case just becasue of popularity. Needless to say MJ and OJ are quite similar to this i belive. Its all about the money. Wheater it is fake or real everything is all about the money.
a nice threat, but i doubt there will be any consequenses
You are. :P First, no "intellectual property" leaves the ownership of Blizzard. Second, without the goldseller's "time and effort", the intellectual property wouldn't even exist in the first place. Therefore, a logical argument is made about who really owns the virtual items in question. Is it Blizzard because it's their intellectual property, or is it the gold sellers, who legitimately created the gold or whatever due to their work farming? This has been the bottom line of this issue for some time now and the single most important reason why MMO devs don't take these companies to court. They might very well lose and the courts may very well force the MMO dev to remove the stipulation in the EULA banning virtual item sales.
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner this issue goes to court the better. I'm a seller myself, and the sooner the law is on my side, the sooner the dorks at Blizzard (or any other MMO) will be legally obligated to facilitate a method for players to sell gold/items legitimately.
I hope Blizzard goes after all of them. Just a bunch of low lifes.
IGN does not spam in game, so be a bit hard to file a lawsuit like this against them. Secondly they are in essence breaking the law just selling things that do not belong to them. Pretty sure theft of any type is against the law. If Blizzard had something on them, they would not hessitate to go after them.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
i hope something comes from this, tired of being harassed 10x a day by these scum bags. unlike the other gold farming tools these guys spam in mail over and over send tells to everyone and even SHOUT in all channels over and over.and you CAN'T ignore them you put "KKJHJGH" on ignore you get spammed by "IUYJFVJ" 2 min. later and a mail from "kjhgfgui". its relentless all day everyday.
like some one else said i had to go out and download "Spamsentry" wich is GREAT, blocks them and i can one click report them. it copy and pastes the tell/mail/shout/ect the thing is i shouldn't have to down load some mod to not be harassed by some PoS gold farmer.
the harassment factor should be enough for something to come of it
Currently the EULA and TOS agreed to by the players are not legally binding agreements and this is where the change will come in future games if devs are truely interested in stopping the gold sellers.
However I think we can all agree that devs will always have split motives on this issue.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
To me, the gold sellers are a harrassment. I don't want their whispers or spam mail.
Cripes, I can't think of a sane indiviual that would think " whoa, spam.....guess I'll give them my credit card number....."
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
That will work only against people who are backward engineering and cracking the game code and then distribute their work and charge money for it. That won't work for sweatshop gold/plat sellers who use people and accounts to farm gold.
READ IT!! Don't just make up crap.
It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or SERVICES that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself. It also heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 8, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended title 17 of the U.S. Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of Online Providers from copyright infringement by their users.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
You obviously not aware of what peon4hire are doing in WOW. Yes it's just 1 gold seller but it's the major spammer in the game. I would say 90% of the spamming you get in WOW is from them.
heres my thought on buying gold from people: payin someone to play the game for you is the saddest thing i ever heard of. if you are too lazy to play a COMPUTER GAME thats pretty sad. i wouldnt even know what to call these people. its like they are wannabe no life loosers or somthin.
anyways people doin this doesnt bother me. what bothers me is the spam they do. i get one every 2 minutes its annoying. they need to get that out of the game.
I've never seen gold sellers spam before in any mmorpg.
Does WoW give free trials without asking for credit card information or something?
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.