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MMORPG Needs To Keep It's Nose Out of MMOFPS.
xDarc
Member Posts: 211
The emerging MMOFPS genre has been crippled by one of the worst launches in the history of break-out development. It suffers from an identity crisis, it's being influenced by the wrong group of people, and so far it has shut out the type of customers who will ultimately propagate it's future.
What the hell am I talking about? I'm talking about the MMORPG world sticking it's nose in business in which it does not belong- and the harm it is doing. Anything which is "MMO" does not automatically belong to the MMORPG scene. The sooner everyone understands an MMO is primarily a vessel for one of the traditional genres to take on broader horizons; the sooner we will see progress on the MMOFPS front.
The progress in the genre to date has been abysmal. This is due to the influence of the wrong individuals. One of the primary reasons MMORPG has been so successful is because it was developed by those who made the RPG genre before it; and targeted the fans of the RPG before it. For example- Richard Garriott, the man behind a slew of traditional RPG games from the Ultima series, created the flagship Ultima Online which pioneered it's genre very successfully. Can you imagine what it would have been like if John Carmack from iD software took a swing at the first MMORPG? Disaster would have ensued.
That is what's happening to the MMOFPS genre. We have virgins in the FPS world creating horrible MMO translations illustrating their complete ignorance and the result is unsurprising failure. Look no further than SOE's bastard "PlanetSide" for an example of this; the sole abysmal progress in the genre I was referring to earlier.
PlanetSide has the fundamental elements that need to exist for an "MMOFPS" designation to be anything but a lie. It offers massive and persistent battles. It's not an instanced, overglorified, in-game server browser. It centers on PvP utilizing means somewhat familliar to the traditional FPS gamer. There is no PvE content, no restrictions on PvP. Not much can be said about it beyond that because it is an extremely poor implementation of well established FPS mechanics and principles that did not need to be tampered with. But that is the direct result of a company that has had a hand in many of the major MMORPG titles sticking their nose in business in which they do not belong.
If you're not familliar with PlanetSide's market performance which plainly shows it's failure I'll briefly summarize it for you. Roughly 18 months into the life cycle of PlanetSide, it's project leader let slip that there had been over 300,000+ closed accounts to date; the overwhelming majority of those in the first 6 months. At that time there were at best 10,000 active accounts remaining from evidence retrieved from monthly character activity graphs across all servers; indicating nearly a 97% loss of everyone to ever come through it's doors in that short time.
Needless to say, there has been absolutely no interest on the part of anyone in attempting to create a similar product anytime soon- as those holding the purse strings are only holding them through making sound investments to begin with. While a true MMOFPS is not a desireable undertaking; these days it seems to slap an MMOFPS label on your product is an attractive option.
Every upcoming title which either directly or indirectly associates themselves with the MMOFPS genre is either blatantly lying, misrepresenting itself, or has yet to prove it's belonging. There are titles that look like an MMOFPS; but refuse offer hard evidence that they take place on a scale larger than anything we've seen in the Battlefield series games which are free to play. There are other titles that feel a plain as day fantasy MMORPG with twitch-like/player-skill based combat earns them an "MMOFPS" designation. This is the indentity crisis of the MMOFPS genre- and it exists for one simple reason- which again comes back to MMORPG's influence on anything aspiring to be an MMO. Having an "MMOFPS" association when you are not helps your product to stand out from a lackluster and saturated MMORPG market inhabited by burned out customers who generate the disgruntled rants that dominate these forums. Being able to wave your arms and yell "Look at me! I'm different!" will bring you attention whether it is warranted or not.
No where will you find a title that is going to offer the basic fundamentals of an MMOFPS game from the right developer and with right customer in mind. The title that is needed to create the critical mass, the chain reaction, the thermo-nuclear explosion to be felt and heard around the world that says to FPS gamers; I'm here. There are millions; if not tens of millions of them worldwide. They are the rightful inhabitants of the MMOFPS genre. And until a true MMOFPS title targets them; MMOFPS will forever be MMORPG's bitch- denied it's rightful acension to stand on it's own with a fanbase that will rival the totality of the MMORPG world in half the time.
Whether or not MMORPG chooses to respect MMOFPS ultimately does not matter though- as a flagship MMOFPS title and the corresponding rapid development we saw after UO/EQ in this genre is inevitable. It may take years, but we would appreicate it if you stopped sticking your nose in business in which you do not belong; because your meddling is holding back progress to a degree. It may even be to the MMORPG world's benefit- if it got back to making real progress in it's own sector... Instead of attempting to cash in for a quick buck by poorly implementing bits and pieces of another genre... or else you'll have little to fall back on when the real deal finally comes to town and steals all those customers you're stringing along. MMORPG does have a history of shooting itself in the foot and getting it's come-uppance though.
Good luck, MMORPG- you're gonna need it.
Comments
But I do agree that planetside is no where near what a MMOFPS should be, and I hope someone some place will make a good one.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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sorry but you failed miserably, your understanding and assessment of the situation is pure speculation and personal opinion backed without any facts whatsoever. Im sorry to break it to you
i~ku~ra
I think, when it comes down to it, you're trying to say that MMORPG developers are attempting to create MMOFPS games and they're screwing it. Well, because of their similarities, I would rather have veterans in the MMORPG industry working on a new MMOFPS over less experienced people. Sure, maybe developers with FPS experience would help, but combat isn't the entire game, and those people don't have experience making a persistent online world.
To sum up, I think your point is ridiculous. You seem to be disappointed with the current MMOFPS games out and you're trying to find someone to blame. That's the important thing, after all; finding someone to blame.
It seems that to a degree, FPS developers are not convinced of the viability of MMO FPS or there would be significantly more progress in the genre. The quality/relevance of the pairing between "FPS and MMO" is much lower than that of "RPG and MMO".
MMORPG
it's a good game but needed more and more peoples, more features, more depht, a better way to reach the big battles...
in this state it'll need only to be F2P to live...
It's not an MMOFPS. At best it is expected to offer battles limited to 100 vs 100 on a single "map." A glorified in-game "server browser." PlanetSide had the capability to support over 1000 in a single zone in 2003... Huxley is supposed to be progress? This is everyone's great hope?
See PlanetSide; see also Failure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The problem with planetside is it is a MMOFPS, and there is hardly any RPG in it at all. Why do you think people keep playing MMORPG? It’s because of character development. In planetside you didn’t have much character development at all; everyone looked the same and used the same stuff. So once everyone had their fun they just quit there was nothing holding them there.
So basically we need someone to make a MMORPGFPS, and it looks like we would probably want both MMO RPG and FPS developers working on it.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Planetside was awesome, if you didn't like it. You didn't like it, get over it. Sure right now the content seems lacking, but back then it was the pinnacle of graphics and kickin' ass. That game WAS huge, see what your basically saying is that planetside was a failure cause it was launched years ago? That's like saying WoW is better than EQ because WoW's newer, and sir I will not tolerate such tom foolery.
So before you think you need to to have an opinion about stuff that's been said and shot down numerous times. Stop. Think. Think hard on this, "am I about to get flamed for saying something that's been said over and over again? But maybe I'll have something fresh to add to the argument" The Answer is no. Just stop, go jog. Go see your significant other, do something just please don't make me say something like this ever again.
If I missed the point and I'm just ranting now, so be it. I'm going to jog with my significant other =P
*edit* just read the post above about lacking "RPG" elements in an MMOFPS. Well lets break it down and I think we'll come upon the problem. MMO First Person Shooter. Nowhere in there does it say RPG, anyone who expects an RPG out of an FPS, well you have some issues. Games like that are made to be persistent competitions, not have the RPG aspects. Planetside was all about HUGE battles that you couldn't have unless the world was continuous not about advancing your characters story and getting items. If you want that play and MMO Role Playing Game. Not an MMO First Person Shooter.
It's those last 3 letters that seem to be causing a lot of problems for you guys.
If you didn't like it, that's fine. But to call it names and lash out about it because it doesn't match your personal idea of an FPS game in a persistant playing field is well.. silly .
exactly planetside failed because there was no character developement there was nothing to do once you hit battle rank 25 and have fought over the same bases hundreds and hundreds of times. I love planetside i really do its still one of my most fond MMOs to day but it needed more.
I think MMOFPS need heavy RPG/RTS elements to them besides just pwnz0ring people. I think darkfall could be such a game with city management and character developement plus the FPS style fighting ... if done right (and if it ever comes out) could be a huge boost to MMOFPSRPGS.
I dont think its MMORPG.com killing the MMOFPS it SoE and their piss poor customer service. Also, there is too many other F2P FPS out there and they all allow some form of level progression. Right
Planetside was another example of SOE's problem with premature ejaculation. They released the game too early, with too many bugs, and too little content. They spend most of the early "live-beta" days desperately trying to work out game breaking bugs and severe latency issues at the expense of adding any real content or depth. The bottom line was that it was a pain in the ass just to run the game and there wasn't enough of a game to enjoy playing. People quit and as is often the case with MMOs of all kinds, they never came back.
SOE has done this with literally every single game they have released since Everquest - claiming their folly is symptomatic of an entire genre is idiotically narrow-minded. In the end it comes down to money, staff, and timetables. If you give enough sufficiently talented people enough time and money to finish the job, people will play the game and keep playing it.
How do you kill that which has no life?
You realize that most if not all FPS games, even newer ones with some form of development, have a cap point where all you can do is fight the same battles over and over? That's what the FPS games are, fighting the same battles over and over. Has been since the beginning of online gaming.
That's where clans and tournaments and ladders come in. The idea of an FPS isn't to level up and reach some end-game, its all about competing against the other side and winning... or at least trying.
It's probably the mmorpg crowd who expect more than what the fps genre has been for 15-20 years.
(Disclaimer: This is an opinion.)
You realize that most if not all FPS games, even newer ones with some form of development, have a cap point where all you can do is fight the same battles over and over? That's what the FPS games are, fighting the same battles over and over. Has been since the beginning of online gaming.
That's where clans and tournaments and ladders come in. The idea of an FPS isn't to level up and reach some end-game, its all about competing against the other side and winning... or at least trying.
It's probably the mmorpg crowd who expect more than what the fps genre has been for 15-20 years.
Indeed, the appeal of the MMORPG genre is not the massive number of people who play it (usually you only play with the same handful of friends and the occasional pickup group) but rather the progression of your character and the persistence of the world. First Person Shooters have always been about shooting the hell out of the other side and then starting from scratch - same map, same weapons, same rules. Everything resets itself when you're done.
Gunz: The Duel did something cool with the level system but it's still just a grind-fest for better guns and clothes (which your opponents have anyway, so it's still even). Planetside did something cool with the level / certification system but all the fighting and killing and conquering never really amounted to anything.
There has to be more to it then that.
How do you kill that which has no life?
Disagree. It was years before FPS games even made it to Console from PC; and years more before it became an online multiplayer experience- very recently actually. On top of that; you have an entire industry that centers around tournaments and competitive play with people from around the world- you have an FPS gamer that has his own line of hardware that folks are snatching up for their rigs...
The roots of the FPS gaming genre are firmly rooted with the PC. A partnership that is costing developers money with increased piracy no doubt; but maybe they will begin to realize- that's it kinda difficult to pirate a game in MMOG format...
Give it time.
You realize that most if not all FPS games, even newer ones with some form of development, have a cap point where all you can do is fight the same battles over and over? That's what the FPS games are, fighting the same battles over and over. Has been since the beginning of online gaming.
That's where clans and tournaments and ladders come in. The idea of an FPS isn't to level up and reach some end-game, its all about competing against the other side and winning... or at least trying.
It's probably the mmorpg crowd who expect more than what the fps genre has been for 15-20 years.
and thats fine for a free to play (well once you buy the game) FPS but a MMO where you pay 15 bucks a month you do expect more ... you should expect more.
I love the battlefield series and don't expect new guns/abilities or new bases every month because its free to play. However in a game like Planetside or any MMO i expect new things to use and get new things at least every once in a while.
Blizzard learned this the hard way after it stopped making money on Starcraft, an obscenely popular game. Between piracy and internet cafe's getting the actual money for it, blizzard probably lost a small fortune on that game. I wouldn't be surprised if Starcraft 2 ends up with some sort of subscription model for rated online play.
FPS developers will indeed get the picture eventually.
How do you kill that which has no life?
Planetside didn't fail financially. It sold enough copies to warrant an expansion. It made money.
The problem with Planetsides retention figures was to some extent it's monthly access fee. Shall I buy Joint Operations or keep my subscription to Planetside open for two more months?
I really enjoyed my time with Planetside, I didn't stay with the game long.
It's not the kind of game that people want to play for the rest of their lives any more than Doom3 is. Once you have done it you have done it. On to the next game.
It's not like there are any great shortage of FPS games, online or otherwise.
The graphics technology in FPS games moves too fast, after a year they start looking very tired compared to the latest and greatest. Planetside looked fabulous on launch but with in a year or two was visually pre-historic. FPS games are very much the arena of the technology junky. The only really successful old FPS games are the free ones. Counterstrike or America's Army.
There are a myriad of causes for PlanetSide's failure- but the reason it is a failure is because of a 97% subscriber loss before entering it's second year of existence. If that's not the definition of failure, what is? 100%? Isn't the difference between the two like splitting hairs?
I'd also like to comment on what is an MMOFPS. Your product is not an MMOFPS because you claim it is. This is the identity crisis of the MMOFPS genre; a symptom of MMORPG influence and abuse. You must meet criteria which is not widely established enough yet for it to be accepted; though it is fairly obvious what that criteria is.
post cut off...
post continued...
If you think that's ridiculous- then look at the MMORPG game list to the left of this page; and ask yourself why every game that calls itself an MMORPG is not listed there. At some point, criteria was established by those representing the MMORPG community- to define what is and is not an MMORPG; regardless of what it's creator says.
So if you're going to dog me; be sure to get on MMORPG.com's ass as well.