From the most recent reports of people that have played the game at the Toronto GD, the beta client they're showing has no /follow and no /stick, but does have an auto face when casters cast a spell. That's all subject to change many times before release though.
Which required you to think more and use actual tactics
A) Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You stand there and hop around in circles using little spells on him while he is hitting you going blow for blow until he is dead
Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You notice it would hurt getting hit so you run away in hopes one of your team mates will peel him off or he choses another target, once he does you turn around and blast him
I don't know what game your playing. If my mage "bunny hops" around a rogue for even 5 seconds he gets two shot. The whole reason mages are good against melee is they have roots, snares, and teleports that enable them to keep distance. You kill melee without them being able to hit you. If they manage to close the range you die in a few hits.
If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
Someone makes a post. Which makes you more of an ass:
A) Respond to it in a thoughtful manner.
Make a one liner elitist remark.
Well I am an ass in real life. You come off as a spoiled child whose parents never said no to. A game either has a feature you like or it doesn't. If an aspect of gameplay is too outside your criteria you have decide if it is a deal breaker or not.
But if you intent was to inform the world about how that game should be designed by your design goals, then I think you are being elitist.
The few gameplay movies that i've seen it does look like the physics are similar to DAoC with better graphics..... I think that's a good thing, DAoC has an old engine but the movement is very smooth in that game.
one thing i haven't seen adressed here is the momentum factor implemented into WAR. i'm pretty sure that Mythic said that in order to run, you first would have to start off slow, and then build up momentum, not sure if that is still there or if i was just imagining it.
also, i think that moving will have to be much more planned out and less spontaneous than WOW, you wound be trying to run circles around the enemy, you will simply be trying to get to his back to either attack the caster behind him, or attack him from the back.
i actually like the instant cast spells in wow, they give the casters a way to inflict damage while still avoiding melee. i also agree that most spells, like nukes, roots, and AOE should have to be channeled, so that we dont have spams of spells like frost nova and arcane explosion. (ya i play WOW)
the movement will be less fluid then WOW, but much more realistic, and you will have to think about your move instead of purely reacting to others. you will have to stay a step ahead of your opponent to get the upper hand. WAR will definatly not be a bunch of warriors standing still hacking away at each other; it will include lots of movement, but this will be more tactical and a slower because you will have to avoid the enemy in order to get places
Originally posted by kraiden If you can move while you cast its not a "natural" or authentic mmorpg. Bunnyhopping , circle straife, jump spin attack, those are not things I want in my mmo and dont want in war.
I have never played a game with worse pvp mechanics than wow, (for my tastes) watching any pvp video with a rogue in it makes you dizzzy beyond compare. Most pvp mage videos involve not a single spell used which has a casting time and if a spell with a casting time is used, its sheep and scorch which are 1.5 sec cast spells. I dont like playing crouching tiger hidden dragon, I want to see a video game. but then again , thats just my tastes. War felt ok to me, but the biggest parts of the combat system are still being debated by the devs. Those are things like.... allow people to straife while in combat or make you auto miss like in daoc. Allow bunny hopping while attacking? Use of stick and face commands? can you cast a spell while getting hit? Can you shoot a ranged weapon while getting hit?how about a spell hit?
I liked the fast paced action in WoW PvP. Better then any other MMO out there and i hope WAR will work the same way. I hate MMOS where you just stand like a static statue and push the buttons, by the way those "strafe" and "jumps" have a meaning in WoW and its called Line of Sight. When i think about static click the button and wait, i still think about Anarchy Online and i don't know why ^^.
Originally posted by wjrasmussen Originally posted by tenthring Originally posted by kraiden Which required you to think more and use actual tacticsA) Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You stand there and hop around in circles using little spells on him while he is hitting you going blow for blow until he is deadB) Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You notice it would hurt getting hit so you run away in hopes one of your team mates will peel him off or he choses another target, once he does you turn around and blast him
I don't know what game your playing. If my mage "bunny hops" around a rogue for even 5 seconds he gets two shot. The whole reason mages are good against melee is they have roots, snares, and teleports that enable them to keep distance. You kill melee without them being able to hit you. If they manage to close the range you die in a few hits.
If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.
Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
This game isnt out yet. PERIOD. So, in light of what you just said, that has to be one of the dumbest things Ive heard.
You know just as much as he does about WHAT THIS GAME will and wont be. BECAUSE THE GAME AINT OUT YET!!
But as to the conversation at hand, I dont know what so many of you have against WoW. I know its popular to knock the game cause WoW is the big dog but come on....WoW is not a bad game. Ive had a blast playing WoW. It has its flaws but being too fast paced? Are you serious? Its just right if you ask me.
I also dont understand what the big deal is with bunny hopping and why some of you have a problem with that. Its not like jumping and spinning in one particular direction actually helps you close the distance or get away from another player easier.
one thing i haven't seen adressed here is the momentum factor implemented into WAR. i'm pretty sure that Mythic said that in order to run, you first would have to start off slow, and then build up momentum, not sure if that is still there or if i was just imagining it.
also, i think that moving will have to be much more planned out and less spontaneous than WOW, you wound be trying to run circles around the enemy, you will simply be trying to get to his back to either attack the caster behind him, or attack him from the back.
i actually like the instant cast spells in wow, they give the casters a way to inflict damage while still avoiding melee. i also agree that most spells, like nukes, roots, and AOE should have to be channeled, so that we dont have spams of spells like frost nova and arcane explosion. (ya i play WOW)
the movement will be less fluid then WOW, but much more realistic, and you will have to think about your move instead of purely reacting to others. you will have to stay a step ahead of your opponent to get the upper hand. WAR will definatly not be a bunch of warriors standing still hacking away at each other; it will include lots of movement, but this will be more tactical and a slower because you will have to avoid the enemy in order to get places
Momentum would be really cool, I'd like to see that.
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
one thing i haven't seen adressed here is the momentum factor implemented into WAR. i'm pretty sure that Mythic said that in order to run, you first would have to start off slow, and then build up momentum, not sure if that is still there or if i was just imagining it.
also, i think that moving will have to be much more planned out and less spontaneous than WOW, you wound be trying to run circles around the enemy, you will simply be trying to get to his back to either attack the caster behind him, or attack him from the back.
i actually like the instant cast spells in wow, they give the casters a way to inflict damage while still avoiding melee. i also agree that most spells, like nukes, roots, and AOE should have to be channeled, so that we dont have spams of spells like frost nova and arcane explosion. (ya i play WOW)
the movement will be less fluid then WOW, but much more realistic, and you will have to think about your move instead of purely reacting to others. you will have to stay a step ahead of your opponent to get the upper hand. WAR will definatly not be a bunch of warriors standing still hacking away at each other; it will include lots of movement, but this will be more tactical and a slower because you will have to avoid the enemy in order to get places
Momentum would be really cool, I'd like to see that.
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
Momentum... is morale. I have spoken about this a few times and its rather a concern of mine and I think will lead to alot of flames upon release. If your "good" your going to be almost unstoppable. The seperation between a full bezerking choppa and a "cold" on is pretty big and I cant even begin to describe how different it is to play a ironbreaker 10 sec into a fight and the steamrolling machine you become with grudges 4 minutes into a fight.
Your fulll power comes when you have full morale, to get morale you have to win and fight and win some more. so you can actually got so powerful that you will not be able to be stoped by normal groups that are just starting a fight against you (who have no morale) The first group into the fights looks like the group that wll have the advantage, contrary to other games where you jump the group thats just getting out of a fight because they are low on health.
adds a whole new element to combat and target selection
one thing i haven't seen adressed here is the momentum factor implemented into WAR. i'm pretty sure that Mythic said that in order to run, you first would have to start off slow, and then build up momentum, not sure if that is still there or if i was just imagining it.
also, i think that moving will have to be much more planned out and less spontaneous than WOW, you wound be trying to run circles around the enemy, you will simply be trying to get to his back to either attack the caster behind him, or attack him from the back.
i actually like the instant cast spells in wow, they give the casters a way to inflict damage while still avoiding melee. i also agree that most spells, like nukes, roots, and AOE should have to be channeled, so that we dont have spams of spells like frost nova and arcane explosion. (ya i play WOW)
the movement will be less fluid then WOW, but much more realistic, and you will have to think about your move instead of purely reacting to others. you will have to stay a step ahead of your opponent to get the upper hand. WAR will definatly not be a bunch of warriors standing still hacking away at each other; it will include lots of movement, but this will be more tactical and a slower because you will have to avoid the enemy in order to get places
Momentum would be really cool, I'd like to see that.
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
Momentum... is morale. I have spoken about this a few times and its rather a concern of mine and I think will lead to alot of flames upon release. If your "good" your going to be almost unstoppable. The seperation between a full bezerking choppa and a "cold" on is pretty big and I cant even begin to describe how different it is to play a ironbreaker 10 sec into a fight and the steamrolling machine you become with grudges 4 minutes into a fight.
Your fulll power comes when you have full morale, to get morale you have to win and fight and win some more. so you can actually got so powerful that you will not be able to be stoped by normal groups that are just starting a fight against you (who have no morale) The first group into the fights looks like the group that wll have the advantage, contrary to other games where you jump the group thats just getting out of a fight because they are low on health.
adds a whole new element to combat and target selection
I feel this is a brilliant change to how the standard PvP games have gone. A lot of groups would just sit back and wait until one was weakened then pick them off after the initial battle was over. Now, with the morale system, that's not the case. if you don't get in there, you will be at a disadvantage rather than an advantage. Brings a whole new set of tactics to the table.
Which required you to think more and use actual tactics
A) Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You stand there and hop around in circles using little spells on him while he is hitting you going blow for blow until he is dead Your playing a wizard. You see a snarling 8ft tall ogre running at you with a 2handed Axe. You notice it would hurt getting hit so you run away in hopes one of your team mates will peel him off or he choses another target, once he does you turn around and blast him
I don't know what game your playing. If my mage "bunny hops" around a rogue for even 5 seconds he gets two shot. The whole reason mages are good against melee is they have roots, snares, and teleports that enable them to keep distance. You kill melee without them being able to hit you. If they manage to close the range you die in a few hits.
If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.
Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
This game isnt out yet. PERIOD. So, in light of what you just said, that has to be one of the dumbest things Ive heard.
You know just as much as he does about WHAT THIS GAME will and wont be.
BECAUSE THE GAME AINT OUT YET!!
But as to the conversation at hand, I dont know what so many of you have against WoW.
I know its popular to knock the game cause WoW is the big dog but come on....WoW is not a bad game. Ive had a blast playing WoW. It has its flaws but being too fast paced? Are you serious? Its just right if you ask me.
I also dont understand what the big deal is with bunny hopping and why some of you have a problem with that. Its not like jumping and spinning in one particular direction actually helps you close the distance or get away from another player easier.
WAR playing as smooth as WoW is not a bad thing.
Don't be such a drama queen. BTW, I am not knocking WoW at all. I am knocking bunny hopping.
Yeah maybe I overstated that a bit but you cant really tell someone not to play WAR if it doesnt suit there taste because no one really knows what WAR is yet.
And as to bunny hopping. Asherons Call was bad about that... but WoW? Naw. I mean look at it this way, you may be jumping around but your not creating any advantage for yourself. People that bunny hop die just as fast as anyone else.....they are just more annoying while dying :P
Yeah maybe I overstated that a bit but you cant really tell someone not to play WAR if it doesnt suit there taste because no one really knows what WAR is yet.
And as to bunny hopping. Asherons Call was bad about that... but WoW? Naw. I mean look at it this way, you may be jumping around but your not creating any advantage for yourself. People that bunny hop die just as fast as anyone else.....they are just more annoying while dying :P
They are harder to kill. A bunny hopping rogue can bunny hop around a caster or another melee class, and get behind them. If they do that, you can hit them, but they cant hit you because you are behind them. It was really only something Rogues could do, every other class didn't benefit from it at all.... if anything it hurt themselves.
Yeah maybe I overstated that a bit but you cant really tell someone not to play WAR if it doesnt suit there taste because no one really knows what WAR is yet.
And as to bunny hopping. Asherons Call was bad about that... but WoW? Naw. I mean look at it this way, you may be jumping around but your not creating any advantage for yourself. People that bunny hop die just as fast as anyone else.....they are just more annoying while dying :P
But we DO have an indication what this game is going to be like based off
1) Developers and public relations
2) Media (thats me) and fans (thats you) who have played giving first hand account.
3) Previous games by the same dev team/company
The standard for pve is now what wow created (opinion) Prior games had dungeons and monsters and sometimes even major badguy slaying but nothing has taken pve to the point where it is now with wow. If you like to pve your in wow at this point, and what they have created is what you expect. War isnt going to be like wow, I can already say that, heck all you need to do is read what the WAR team is saying and you know this. They constantly bash wow's overly time consuming pve.... that "bearpaw" line was talkin about wow.
So the lack of itemization statictical reward via endgame pve will not be in this game. Thats an EQ/WoW type creation, not a standard. As someone told me, the end game is the end game because its the end of your advancement.
So I cant imagine the player who is use to getting "epics that pwn people in the face" as a reward for slaying computer controled dragons in wow... is going to come to wow and check out a dwarven stronghold (dungeon) and get standard gold and items but follow actual warhammer story... rewarding enough to stay around. They will go though the dungeon and finish it and get a golden blazing battle hammer, love it then look at the very stamndard [100dps] and notice the weapon they have already is [100dps] and the guy next to them has the same and they will have the "i did all this for nothing" (when infact they explored, did pve which they claim to love and also got a nice glowy weapon) and then feel unfufilled.
Bunnyhopping circle straife jump+turn+attack/cast are all things that give advantages in pvp combat of wow. Notice you see people doing the circle straife thing when fighting other people but never when fighting monsters? Notice the lissle "lag teleporting" that rogues do only seems to happen when they are fighting other people but never when they are fighting in a 40 man raid? ever get backstabed by a rogue who is infront of you? happens to me all the time as they jump on top of you (which the client deems behind) and unleash a back attack, same effect can be attained by constantly sprinting in a circle around your target. Thats why protection warriors in similar gear are less effective than 2handed in wow, is because of all the additional running around that goes into combat that negates the advantage a shield and sword user has. Lets pray absurd things like that dont appear in war as whole tank CLASSES, will be based off of using a shield and not just 1 certain spec.
I for one cannot stand a combat system where you just stand in front of each other wacking away, it doesn't feel involved and it just seems stupid.. who can string together their hardest hitting abilities first.. no dodgeing or anything.. at least in wow you can use the environment to your advantage, aka Line of sight.. Sure people circle strafeing is annoying but its become part of what the pvp community wants.. you've had hands on experience with WAR right? Is it like that in WAR as well.. can you move and attack at the same time?
The LoS in WoW is a joke I'm sorry. I can shoot straight through a mountain in Alterac Valley but if I'm one step below some guy I'm out of sight for my attacks? I love WoW but the PvP in that game is gimped. Dodging isn't running around your opponent in circles thats just taking the easy way out to kill someone. It's really not what the community really wants it's just something for people to make their PvP experience easier and requiring less thought. I'll admit WoW's PvP was fun to a point, but it didn't give a lot of variety only 4 battlegrounds and you were mostly fighting people of the same classes and spec. The game is just too gear oriented. WAR is trying trying to erase what most people think about MMO PvP. They're adding things for the players who don't want to have to keep moving, people who actually want to put some thought in what they're going to do next after they kill their opponent. They don't want another trigger happy game where you need the intelligence of a retarded monkey to run around nuke continuously and hope for something to die and then just die a few seconds later. I know I sound like a fanboy, but I'm tired of my hand cramping up from having to lay on the W,A,S,D keys in WoW just to try to survive in its PvP.
yes you can move and attack. infact you can move and attack in every game. what seperates a GOOD combat system and a poor one is straifeing+spining while attacking. DAoC had movement while attacking, you pretty much had to move because endgame melee combat was all about running down casters and healers as they ran for their lives (as opposed to wow where tanks have to run AWAY from casters because thats their weak matchup class) so your constantly moving. Usually you sleect your target and move towards it and /stick command to fengage the target and follow them. this allowed for the actual word "DPS" to come into play. DPS as in what it really means DAMAGE PER SECOND and not "omgIhithard" some people used faster weapons, some people used slower weapons with lower dps but higher damage per hit, your playstyle determined which was most effective, but since you where always in contact and in weapon attack range insted of spending tehths of a sec trying to target and get back in strike range.... weapon speeds mattered.
WAR took a big step by not allowing you to straife through a person while attacking, and you cant run a circle around people in war like you can in wow (latteral movement is a slow sidestep and not "forward" running speed) you cant jump over people or move through them in any way
the above combat rules alone take away 90% of the advantages people use in wow throw in the fact that you have to stand still to cast spells There are no special 3 and 5 minute class or race abilities that grant great power
all you gotta do now is add in /face and /stick (or something that lets you focus in on and engage your target) and this is a perfect combat system.
Okay, so I started playing DAoC about 2 days ago, in preparation for WAR... but can someone tell me what /face and /stick is? I've seen it mentioned several times.... however I'm lost in what is really is.....
you have played daoc for 2 yars and you dont know /face and /stick?
/Face is a command to make your charachter constantly turn to face the target you have. some games call it engage. It is a very nice feature to counter straife and other "target is not in view" glitches used by melee against casters and ranged. conversely you can tell home someone is attacking based off of what charachter they are faced.
/stick is a command similar to /follow, but closer range and for all targets. This will allow charachters to maintain melee range with charachters of similar speed to prevent things such as "jousting"combat and straife tactics that would normaly negate weapon speeds, block parry adn dodge.
Yeah maybe I overstated that a bit but you cant really tell someone not to play WAR if it doesnt suit there taste because no one really knows what WAR is yet.
And as to bunny hopping. Asherons Call was bad about that... but WoW? Naw. I mean look at it this way, you may be jumping around but your not creating any advantage for yourself. People that bunny hop die just as fast as anyone else.....they are just more annoying while dying :P
I don't know if your bunny hopping point was directed at me, but if it is. I don't like bunny hopping. Did mean bunny hopping in Wow? Yes! Did I mean only in Wow? No. Did I mean in MMOs? Yes. Did I mean only in MMOs? No. Did I mean FPS? Yes. Do I mean in video games in general? Yes. So bunny hopping in games is generally stupid IMO. Imagine bunny hopping in a golf game.
Now if you decide to create the greate bunny hopscotch MMORPG, then THAT might be the exception.
[quote]you have played daoc for 2 yars and you dont know /face and /stick?[/quote]
No, I have only been playing it for 2 days. And thank you. I tried it today while playing DAoC, and it's okay. I'm assuming you create macro's for it... because it gets irritating typing /stick /face all the time xD
WoW PVP was fun (till it got old and started getting VERY gear based). I playd a hunter and its all about keeping people out of your "dead zone" basicly keep them atleast 6ft from u. Once they get in that zone u are toast. BUT we have abilities that get rid of this weakness such as immobilizing them or using slowing effects (which dont always work). In WAR I want to be able to get away from a melee fighter. In DAoC i play a hunter ( just started and he is lvl 22) and i have noticed that it is whoever hits who 1st in combat against a caster or another hunter. Once u start hitting them they cannot cast spells back at u. Also once a melee fighter gets near me I am dead, thats it, no counter to it. While i enjoy playing DAoC i dont think its combat is something to be implement into WAR. Thats why I think all classes in WAR should be able to be able to counter their weaknesses to a certain extent. Like I was able to do with my Hunter in WoW.
Okay, so I started playing DAoC about 2 days ago, in preparation for WAR...
I wonder how many new accounts there are beeing made. ^^; I'm from Europe but mostly active on the Asian Powergaming/PvP-Scene and thus have no experience with it. After reading through a lot of posts here I'm now installing DAoC this moment as well, in preperation for WAR ...
I'm curious too about how the movement will be. All this stuff with collision detection and so on sounds pretty cool, all that's needed now is some sort of taunting skills for tanks that works on players to keep them engaged in melee. Generally I'm hoping for some direct control and fast paced action type of combat that however requires strategy instead of wild jumping and/or running around (something like R.Y.L. for those who've played it).
From the combat videos I've seen so far I gotta say though I'm not very impressed (looks a bit boring as in typical point-click-wait) but it's still a very early stage of the game and playing it is a totally different experience anyway ... so who knows what it'll be like in the end.
Comments
If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
Someone makes a post. Which makes you more of an ass:
A) Respond to it in a thoughtful manner.
Well I am an ass in real life. You come off as a spoiled child whose parents never said no to. A game either has a feature you like or it doesn't. If an aspect of gameplay is too outside your criteria you have decide if it is a deal breaker or not.
But if you intent was to inform the world about how that game should be designed by your design goals, then I think you are being elitist.
The few gameplay movies that i've seen it does look like the physics are similar to DAoC with better graphics..... I think that's a good thing, DAoC has an old engine but the movement is very smooth in that game.
also, i think that moving will have to be much more planned out and less spontaneous than WOW, you wound be trying to run circles around the enemy, you will simply be trying to get to his back to either attack the caster behind him, or attack him from the back.
i actually like the instant cast spells in wow, they give the casters a way to inflict damage while still avoiding melee. i also agree that most spells, like nukes, roots, and AOE should have to be channeled, so that we dont have spams of spells like frost nova and arcane explosion. (ya i play WOW)
the movement will be less fluid then WOW, but much more realistic, and you will have to think about your move instead of purely reacting to others. you will have to stay a step ahead of your opponent to get the upper hand. WAR will definatly not be a bunch of warriors standing still hacking away at each other; it will include lots of movement, but this will be more tactical and a slower because you will have to avoid the enemy in order to get places
I liked the fast paced action in WoW PvP. Better then any other MMO out there and i hope WAR will work the same way. I hate MMOS where you just stand like a static statue and push the buttons, by the way those "strafe" and "jumps" have a meaning in WoW and its called Line of Sight. When i think about static click the button and wait, i still think about Anarchy Online and i don't know why ^^.
If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.
Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
This game isnt out yet. PERIOD. So, in light of what you just said, that has to be one of the dumbest things Ive heard.
You know just as much as he does about WHAT THIS GAME will and wont be.
BECAUSE THE GAME AINT OUT YET!!
But as to the conversation at hand, I dont know what so many of you have against WoW.
I know its popular to knock the game cause WoW is the big dog but come on....WoW is not a bad game. Ive had a blast playing WoW. It has its flaws but being too fast paced? Are you serious? Its just right if you ask me.
I also dont understand what the big deal is with bunny hopping and why some of you have a problem with that. Its not like jumping and spinning in one particular direction actually helps you close the distance or get away from another player easier.
WAR playing as smooth as WoW is not a bad thing.
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
Momentum... is morale. I have spoken about this a few times and its rather a concern of mine and I think will lead to alot of flames upon release. If your "good" your going to be almost unstoppable. The seperation between a full bezerking choppa and a "cold" on is pretty big and I cant even begin to describe how different it is to play a ironbreaker 10 sec into a fight and the steamrolling machine you become with grudges 4 minutes into a fight.
Your fulll power comes when you have full morale, to get morale you have to win and fight and win some more. so you can actually got so powerful that you will not be able to be stoped by normal groups that are just starting a fight against you (who have no morale) The first group into the fights looks like the group that wll have the advantage, contrary to other games where you jump the group thats just getting out of a fight because they are low on health.
adds a whole new element to combat and target selection
Also, one way you could handle instant cast abilities is that certain kinds couldn't be used if your character was moving too quickly. Or they could have pushback that slowed momentum, like a shotgun. Or they could be less accurate when fired on the run.
Momentum... is morale. I have spoken about this a few times and its rather a concern of mine and I think will lead to alot of flames upon release. If your "good" your going to be almost unstoppable. The seperation between a full bezerking choppa and a "cold" on is pretty big and I cant even begin to describe how different it is to play a ironbreaker 10 sec into a fight and the steamrolling machine you become with grudges 4 minutes into a fight.
Your fulll power comes when you have full morale, to get morale you have to win and fight and win some more. so you can actually got so powerful that you will not be able to be stoped by normal groups that are just starting a fight against you (who have no morale) The first group into the fights looks like the group that wll have the advantage, contrary to other games where you jump the group thats just getting out of a fight because they are low on health.
adds a whole new element to combat and target selection
I feel this is a brilliant change to how the standard PvP games have gone. A lot of groups would just sit back and wait until one was weakened then pick them off after the initial battle was over. Now, with the morale system, that's not the case. if you don't get in there, you will be at a disadvantage rather than an advantage. Brings a whole new set of tactics to the table.If you have to stand still and cast everything then you can't do damage because people will just close on you and kill you.
Than again, this game will not be wow. If it doesn't match your tastes, you might not want to play.
This game isnt out yet. PERIOD. So, in light of what you just said, that has to be one of the dumbest things Ive heard.
You know just as much as he does about WHAT THIS GAME will and wont be.
BECAUSE THE GAME AINT OUT YET!!
But as to the conversation at hand, I dont know what so many of you have against WoW.
I know its popular to knock the game cause WoW is the big dog but come on....WoW is not a bad game. Ive had a blast playing WoW. It has its flaws but being too fast paced? Are you serious? Its just right if you ask me.
I also dont understand what the big deal is with bunny hopping and why some of you have a problem with that. Its not like jumping and spinning in one particular direction actually helps you close the distance or get away from another player easier.
WAR playing as smooth as WoW is not a bad thing.
Don't be such a drama queen. BTW, I am not knocking WoW at all. I am knocking bunny hopping.
Yeah maybe I overstated that a bit but you cant really tell someone not to play WAR if it doesnt suit there taste because no one really knows what WAR is yet.
And as to bunny hopping. Asherons Call was bad about that... but WoW? Naw. I mean look at it this way, you may be jumping around but your not creating any advantage for yourself. People that bunny hop die just as fast as anyone else.....they are just more annoying while dying :P
But we DO have an indication what this game is going to be like based off
1) Developers and public relations
2) Media (thats me) and fans (thats you) who have played giving first hand account.
3) Previous games by the same dev team/company
The standard for pve is now what wow created (opinion) Prior games had dungeons and monsters and sometimes even major badguy slaying but nothing has taken pve to the point where it is now with wow. If you like to pve your in wow at this point, and what they have created is what you expect. War isnt going to be like wow, I can already say that, heck all you need to do is read what the WAR team is saying and you know this. They constantly bash wow's overly time consuming pve.... that "bearpaw" line was talkin about wow.
So the lack of itemization statictical reward via endgame pve will not be in this game. Thats an EQ/WoW type creation, not a standard. As someone told me, the end game is the end game because its the end of your advancement.
So I cant imagine the player who is use to getting "epics that pwn people in the face" as a reward for slaying computer controled dragons in wow... is going to come to wow and check out a dwarven stronghold (dungeon) and get standard gold and items but follow actual warhammer story... rewarding enough to stay around. They will go though the dungeon and finish it and get a golden blazing battle hammer, love it then look at the very stamndard [100dps] and notice the weapon they have already is [100dps] and the guy next to them has the same and they will have the "i did all this for nothing" (when infact they explored, did pve which they claim to love and also got a nice glowy weapon) and then feel unfufilled.
Bunnyhopping circle straife jump+turn+attack/cast are all things that give advantages in pvp combat of wow. Notice you see people doing the circle straife thing when fighting other people but never when fighting monsters? Notice the lissle "lag teleporting" that rogues do only seems to happen when they are fighting other people but never when they are fighting in a 40 man raid? ever get backstabed by a rogue who is infront of you? happens to me all the time as they jump on top of you (which the client deems behind) and unleash a back attack, same effect can be attained by constantly sprinting in a circle around your target. Thats why protection warriors in similar gear are less effective than 2handed in wow, is because of all the additional running around that goes into combat that negates the advantage a shield and sword user has. Lets pray absurd things like that dont appear in war as whole tank CLASSES, will be based off of using a shield and not just 1 certain spec.
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yes you can move and attack. infact you can move and attack in every game. what seperates a GOOD combat system and a poor one is straifeing+spining while attacking. DAoC had movement while attacking, you pretty much had to move because endgame melee combat was all about running down casters and healers as they ran for their lives (as opposed to wow where tanks have to run AWAY from casters because thats their weak matchup class) so your constantly moving. Usually you sleect your target and move towards it and /stick command to fengage the target and follow them. this allowed for the actual word "DPS" to come into play. DPS as in what it really means DAMAGE PER SECOND and not "omgIhithard" some people used faster weapons, some people used slower weapons with lower dps but higher damage per hit, your playstyle determined which was most effective, but since you where always in contact and in weapon attack range insted of spending tehths of a sec trying to target and get back in strike range.... weapon speeds mattered.
WAR took a big step by not allowing you to straife through a person while attacking, and you cant run a circle around people in war like you can in wow (latteral movement is a slow sidestep and not "forward" running speed)
you cant jump over people or move through them in any way
the above combat rules alone take away 90% of the advantages people use in wow
throw in the fact that you have to stand still to cast spells
There are no special 3 and 5 minute class or race abilities that grant great power
all you gotta do now is add in /face and /stick (or something that lets you focus in on and engage your target) and this is a perfect combat system.
you have played daoc for 2 yars and you dont know /face and /stick?
/Face is a command to make your charachter constantly turn to face the target you have. some games call it engage. It is a very nice feature to counter straife and other "target is not in view" glitches used by melee against casters and ranged. conversely you can tell home someone is attacking based off of what charachter they are faced.
/stick is a command similar to /follow, but closer range and for all targets. This will allow charachters to maintain melee range with charachters of similar speed to prevent things such as "jousting"combat and straife tactics that would normaly negate weapon speeds, block parry adn dodge.
I don't know if your bunny hopping point was directed at me, but if it is. I don't like bunny hopping. Did mean bunny hopping in Wow? Yes! Did I mean only in Wow? No. Did I mean in MMOs? Yes. Did I mean only in MMOs? No. Did I mean FPS? Yes. Do I mean in video games in general? Yes. So bunny hopping in games is generally stupid IMO. Imagine bunny hopping in a golf game.
Now if you decide to create the greate bunny hopscotch MMORPG, then THAT might be the exception.
No, I have only been playing it for 2 days. And thank you. I tried it today while playing DAoC, and it's okay. I'm assuming you create macro's for it... because it gets irritating typing /stick /face all the time xD
/macro stick /stick
there you go.
you can also bind stick and face to your keyboard. I had mine as , and . with / being sprint
Great game, I wish I could make my guild go back with me and play.
I'm curious too about how the movement will be. All this stuff with collision detection and so on sounds pretty cool, all that's needed now is some sort of taunting skills for tanks that works on players to keep them engaged in melee.
From the combat videos I've seen so far I gotta say though I'm not very impressed (looks a bit boring as in typical point-click-wait) but it's still a very early stage of the game and playing it is a totally different experience anyway ... so who knows what it'll be like in the end.