You think TBC isn't a bad expansion? It made how much content obsolete because of Blizzard's obsession with making the end game as tedious as possible.
"I didn't enjoy TBC much either. Unlike in many of the EQ expansions they didn't add very much. EQ always added lots of new zones and new classes. The lack of adding new classes was what really hurt it for me. "
WoW has very bad class balance and it's constantly in flux. Throwing in another class at this point would completely ruin what little balanace there is now. Also, what would this new class be? A tank? Already have 3(and Warriors complained and complained when Druids were able to out tank them at the beginning of TBC so bears got nerfed). Another healer? 4 of those(Paladins had to be nerfed because Priests were complaining) DPS? Please, every class can effectively DPS.
"So...if I work hard on acquiring gear...I prefer that the expansion doesn't make my gear obsolete. "
So, in other words you spent all that time grinding for Tier 2 and now you want it to still be the best gear possible even at level 83?
The only "bad" thing TBC did was change raids and that should have been done a long time ago. 40 man raids is just stupidity. In fact, I would prefer they lower the cap again to 20. In the 40 man raids only half the raid was actually doing something, the other half was just tagging along for free phat lewtz.
The expansion packs that are actually bad are the ones that try and take the game in a whole new direction, it NEVER works. The expansions that add very little content and should have been applied in a free update are not especially beloved either, SOE seems to be the worst perpetrator of this type.
No a bad expansion is one that gives you the same experience in a different package. That's basically what TBC did. Going from 60-70 is like starting over at 1 all over again.
You go from getting to the good stuff to questing for unimpressive greens with better stats then your epic items, and then you spent all that time getting to the end-game raids (some call this the fun stuff). To grinding 10 levels just to do that all over again. They didn't improve on the game at all, they just gave you the same experience in a different package.
WOOT I hit levle 60!!! now I get to raid omg yes!!!!
150 raids later.....
Now I am bored what do I do.....
OMG an expansion pack sweet now i can get to 70 and try to areas and mount and omg flying mounts.....and man new gear this is gonna be awesome........
I love expansion packs because They add new things to do and try to a game you already love you see what I mean?
--------------------------------------------- WoW -Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue -Rhalon 81 UD Mage -Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko "If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura ---------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Xiaoki "So...if I work hard on acquiring gear...I prefer that the expansion doesn't make my gear obsolete. " So, in other words you spent all that time grinding for Tier 2 and now you want it to still be the best gear possible even at level 83? The only "bad" thing TBC did was change raids and that should have been done a long time ago. 40 man raids is just stupidity. In fact, I would prefer they lower the cap again to 20. In the 40 man raids only half the raid was actually doing something, the other half was just tagging along for free phat lewtz. The expansion packs that are actually bad are the ones that try and take the game in a whole new direction, it NEVER works. The expansions that add very little content and should have been applied in a free update are not especially beloved either, SOE seems to be the worst perpetrator of this type.
First, I will try to relate, as I am not playing WoW, yet as many around, I kinda know what WoW is anyway.
No, I never said I want old gear to be the best at 83...however, if old gear is useless now, you just destroy my very motivation. Why did I earn gear X with a lot of hardwork only to see it become useless? Replacing it with something that is better on everything is a mistake.
See, if a DEV put some content that is HARD to acquire and there is a point to get it at a moment, that DEV has a responsability to make sure there is still a good reason to earn it later in that game. Otherwise, he just remove all this content from the game with a back of his hand as well as telling me I just lose what I consider MOST of my character. If it take me 200 hours to get to max level and 500 hours to get the gear...that gear better be sweet, nice and usefull forever. As after all, there is more play time on acquiring that gear then on leveling. How a DEV accomplishes that...there are many ways. Maybe this gear is a ticket in order to be allowed to the next upgrade, maybe it is the best in some situation (in a malefactor/examplar, or in a resist, or in some dungeons). See, a DEV has to respect the players who trust him and actually play and earn stuff he places, not trash them by making everything obsolete and useless. This is the main problem of old EQ and WoW. No matter the gameplay and the details, if you have players who invest themsleves emotionnally, you can't make all that useless in a glimpse. You effectively remove all this content from the game (useless stuff isn't done) as well as "penalized" players who trust in you. Maybe the new gear that is better isn't equipable in some zones. Again, there are many solution. But making the hard-earned gear obsolete and useless isn't cool in my book.
You are telling ME that raiding moving from 40 players to 20 is a good thing? Welcome to these boards. You don't know me, nor have to. But IMO, a good raid should have a size of 8 players or less! So downing it from 40 to 20 is still timid IMO. I am on your side on this, yet, maybe further then you are! I don't play any raiding game, this is why I don,t play WoW...or EQ...or EQ2.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
"I didn't enjoy TBC much either. Unlike in many of the EQ expansions they didn't add very much. EQ always added lots of new zones and new classes. The lack of adding new classes was what really hurt it for me. " WoW has very bad class balance and it's constantly in flux. Throwing in another class at this point would completely ruin what little balanace there is now. Also, what would this new class be? A tank? Already have 3(and Warriors complained and complained when Druids were able to out tank them at the beginning of TBC so bears got nerfed). Another healer? 4 of those(Paladins had to be nerfed because Priests were complaining) DPS? Please, every class can effectively DPS. "So...if I work hard on acquiring gear...I prefer that the expansion doesn't make my gear obsolete. " So, in other words you spent all that time grinding for Tier 2 and now you want it to still be the best gear possible even at level 83? The only "bad" thing TBC did was change raids and that should have been done a long time ago. 40 man raids is just stupidity. In fact, I would prefer they lower the cap again to 20. In the 40 man raids only half the raid was actually doing something, the other half was just tagging along for free phat lewtz. The expansion packs that are actually bad are the ones that try and take the game in a whole new direction, it NEVER works. The expansions that add very little content and should have been applied in a free update are not especially beloved either, SOE seems to be the worst perpetrator of this type.
Regarding new classes If you want people to keep going and roll alts you need to add new classes. New Races don't add anything new really. In Everquest the class balence was far worse then in Warcraft and they had far more classes. The expansions are what kept me playing for a long time with all the new classe and new content. I never had a major problem with class balence in WoW even though people like to complain about it all the time. There is always room for a new class.
Expansion packs are fine for the most part, they are there to give you more things to do. Some however are badly implemented, or change the game/add to the problems of the previos game like the burning crusade did for wow.
In tbc for instance, they added alot of pve raids again, made forced reputation grinds to be able to do instances, only added 1 new bg, and a very poorly implemented arena system, and badly thought out world pvp objectives. Thats not what makes it a bad expansion though. What makes it a bad expansion is the fact it makes all previous content obsolete, old raid dungeons are never going to be done again, and if you do do them all challenge from them is eliminated at 60+ due to the huge gear difference in the game.
Expansions should add new content, yes, but they should be done in a way that adds to the old content, not change the game completly and make all the previos content obsolete.
I liked what they did in TBC........they gave horde pallies and allies shaman......so now you can make that class while staying with your friends.....
Honestly I think Blizzard is doing great. Not only that its another way for them to make money you release no new classes. So every one goes on man I want new classes.....Blizzard goes well wait for the next expansion. It comes out with 4 new classes and everyone is happy including blizzard because they can make more money off the new expansion.
But on topic I love expansion packs.
--------------------------------------------- WoW -Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue -Rhalon 81 UD Mage -Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko "If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura ---------------------------------------------
I think that having to pay for new content in an expansion pack is ludicrous since one of the main justifications given for charging a monthly fee is that it ensures "a steady stream of new content." They should either charge a monthly fee or charge for expansions, but never for both. Guild Wars and Eve are perfect examples of the two extremes.
I dont mind expansion packs except for the times when they go out to make past material obsolete, or deviate from what a game has been since its begining. I also detest having to pay for expansion pack. Im already paying for the box and a monthly fee, why the hell should i shell out 30 bucks for something which was already funded by my monthly fee? This is the prime reson i do NOT play any games where i have to buy expansions. EvE/L2 have been the games ive stuck with the longest and both have the right idea on how to keep content comming. NCSOFT has done a great job in shelling out 2 major expansion annualy totally free. I dont care how bad ass a game is, no dev can justify a retail box price a monthly fee and an expansion pack box at the same time. That imo is a rip off.
I think that having to pay for new content in an expansion pack is ludicrous since one of the main justifications given for charging a monthly fee is that it ensures "a steady stream of new content." They should either charge a monthly fee or charge for expansions, but never for both. Guild Wars and Eve are perfect examples of the two extremes.
ever play asherons call? this has been the only game with 1 expansion pack but with MONTHLY content updates on lore. Updates also include changes in skills and additions to the game as well that come standard with the monthly service fee which is quite less than those of newer MMORPGs which give either very little content updates if at all. Mostly related to balancing of classes and equipment.
I say get used to it. Expansions are way to generate more money for the company. Yet I do not manage such companies and do not know exactly what your service fees pay for.
I liked what they did in TBC........they gave horde pallies and allies shaman......so now you can make that class while staying with your friends.....
Honestly I think Blizzard is doing great. Not only that its another way for them to make money you release no new classes. So every one goes on man I want new classes.....Blizzard goes well wait for the next expansion. It comes out with 4 new classes and everyone is happy including blizzard because they can make more money off the new expansion.
But on topic I love expansion packs.
Man i dont want any new classes for wow they havnt even balanced the ones they have. theres no reason to add them either when you have 9 classes each with 3 very different trees each, basically meaning they have 27 possible classes theres one class and talent build there for everyone.
I think it depends. A sandbox MMO that is perfectly polished with a truly player run economy where players are 100% free and not restrained by levels and gear and where player action effects the game world then I simply cringe at the idea of an xpac for that particular game. In a level based game where end game raiding and gear grinding are simply the goal then yes I think xpacs are probably necessary as those type of games are a never ending carrot on a stick game that keeps players coming back for more and more gear. And level based games with xpacs will probably do fine despite angering some of the raiders if the new content doesn't change the game play and mechanics that the majority of players enjoyed.
A sandbox MMO that is perfectly polished with a truly player run economy where players are 100% free and not restrained by levels and gear and where player action effects the game world then I simply cringe at the idea of an xpac for that particular game.
Is such a MMO even possible? None so far..and few on the horizon.... oh yeah...maybe Darkfall..
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think it depends. A sandbox MMO that is perfectly polished with a truly player run economy where players are 100% free and not restrained by levels and gear and where player action effects the game world then I simply cringe at the idea of an xpac for that particular game. In a level based game where end game raiding and gear grinding are simply the goal then yes I think xpacs are probably necessary as those type of games are a never ending carrot on a stick game that keeps players coming back for more and more gear. And level based games with xpacs will probably do fine despite angering some of the raiders if the new content doesn't change the game play and mechanics that the majority of players enjoyed.
yeah thats true, but in a true player run game if its implemented right why would you even need new content, all they need to do is provide the tools to do as much as possible, the players do the rest
I think if a miracle happens and darkfall is released with all features promised, the only thing they would really need to do is fix bugs, and maybe add new tools to get rid of any unforseen restrictions on the game.
Personally i think darkfall will deliver, what it will most likely fail on is server stability which in a pvp game is the worse thing to possibly happen, especially with twitch based combat. Its seems far fetched we can have 10k users battling on a server at once lol maybe in 20 years that would be possible Also even if they did release perfectly theres the carebears that will inevitably try and change the game to suit their needs.
If they said 2k per server it wouldn't sound like they were talking out of their arse, and give the game some chance at implementing all of the features without the lag to contend with
"Why did I earn gear X with a lot of hardwork only to see it become useless? Replacing it with something that is better on everything is a mistake."
Why get new gear at level 20 when you are just going to replace it all by level 30? Also, why did you raid for that gear at all? Why are you surprised that it was made obsolete by new gear? When you spent all that time raiding just to get that shiny set of armor you did it of your own free will. No one forced you to raid for hundreds of hours to get it. Yeah, Blizzard just might as well completely delete Molten Core from the game because no one is going to run it now but when it was the big thing it kept people playing and paying. They might as well delete Karazhan when the next expansion comes out too. Personally, I would like Blizzard to retune all the old raids and all the gear in them to be in line with the new raid caps and the new item level point distribution. Course, Tigole and Furor basically said that any time spent making old content more appealing to rerun these days is time not spent making new content.
"There is always room for a new class."
Again, I ask: what would this new class be? What would this new class do differently? Why would you want this class in a 5 man group or a raid instead of 1 of the 9 existing classes? There's only a couple roles to fill and only so many slots for those roles in groups and raids. Having a ton of classes is a bad thing when all of them are essentially doing 1 of 3 things.
I think it depends. A sandbox MMO that is perfectly polished with a truly player run economy where players are 100% free and not restrained by levels and gear and where player action effects the game world then I simply cringe at the idea of an xpac for that particular game. In a level based game where end game raiding and gear grinding are simply the goal then yes I think xpacs are probably necessary as those type of games are a never ending carrot on a stick game that keeps players coming back for more and more gear. And level based games with xpacs will probably do fine despite angering some of the raiders if the new content doesn't change the game play and mechanics that the majority of players enjoyed.
yeah thats true, but in a true player run game if its implemented right why would you even need new content, all they need to do is provide the tools to do as much as possible, the players do the rest
I think if a miracle happens and darkfall is released with all features promised, the only thing they would really need to do is fix bugs, and maybe add new tools to get rid of any unforseen restrictions on the game.
Personally i think darkfall will deliver, what it will most likely fail on is server stability which in a pvp game is the worse thing to possibly happen, especially with twitch based combat. Its seems far fetched we can have 10k users battling on a server at once lol maybe in 20 years that would be possible Also even if they did release perfectly theres the carebears that will inevitably try and change the game to suit their needs.
If they said 2k per server it wouldn't sound like they were talking out of their arse, and give the game some chance at implementing all of the features without the lag to contend with
I don't think it can be done, at all, ever. Players and games over the last 10 years have proven over and over again that it's impossible. I hope they prove me wrong, and only time will tell, but we already see it in games with strict player controls in place. Players cheat, game mechanisms fail, and giving too much control to players has proved 100% of the time that it doesn't work. I wish them luck, and hope they can figure it out, but I'm not holding my breath. (which is a long time to hold my breath )
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
"Why did I earn gear X with a lot of hardwork only to see it become useless? Replacing it with something that is better on everything is a mistake." Why get new gear at level 20 when you are just going to replace it all by level 30? Also, why did you raid for that gear at all? Why are you surprised that it was made obsolete by new gear? When you spent all that time raiding just to get that shiny set of armor you did it of your own free will. No one forced you to raid for hundreds of hours to get it. Yeah, Blizzard just might as well completely delete Molten Core from the game because no one is going to run it now but when it was the big thing it kept people playing and paying. They might as well delete Karazhan when the next expansion comes out too. Personally, I would like Blizzard to retune all the old raids and all the gear in them to be in line with the new raid caps and the new item level point distribution. Course, Tigole and Furor basically said that any time spent making old content more appealing to rerun these days is time not spent making new content.
Again, I don't particuliarly point at Blizzard, cause IMO, they are wasted time.
But, gear you earn while leveling isn't that important. You get it, as a second aspect, while you level up. Gear you work a LOT for without progressing in any other way, cannot be made completley obsolete.
Tigole and Furor are the most clueless peoples I ever have the disgrace to read. Putting sense into Brad head seem like a walk in the garden.
See, players are PROGRESSING, when you just remove a significant part of their progression and make it useless, you just remove their very motivation to even play the game.
Let's take an example.
Player A is happy at leveling up and he stops playing a game when he reaches max level. This player always enjoy getting more levels, since it ADDS on what he acquires.
Player B is happy acquiring gear. Each time you adds a new expansion, you made everything he did useless and he always feel like he is starting at 0 again, and again, and again.
Player A loves your game. Player B...well.
Making sure that nothing which take a LOT of time ever become obsolete is design 101. The fact Tigole and Furor are not able to grasp this point isn't my problem. As I said, they are a waste of time. There is no discussion, no arguing, when they are around you do the same thing as if you are in the bathroom.
Tigole and Furor are doing something even Brad wouldn't dream of. They are ruining WoW and Blizzard reputation. This is quite a feat. A feat of ineptitude, but a feat nonetheless. They even think they are responsible for WoW success, which is hilarious. Reading them is time wasted. This is like the lame jeweler who is happy to see a diamond sell for more then any other jewelry on the market, the fact he waste the diamond is absent from his mind, he is just not grasping it. A diamond is by definition worth more then other jewelry, ruining it, is a feat...and Tigole + Furor are achieving this feat with Blizzard and WoW...amazing.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Xiaoki "There is always room for a new class." Again, I ask: what would this new class be? What would this new class do differently? Why would you want this class in a 5 man group or a raid instead of 1 of the 9 existing classes? There's only a couple roles to fill and only so many slots for those roles in groups and raids. Having a ton of classes is a bad thing when all of them are essentially doing 1 of 3 things.
Just go out and play a game like CoH. You have about 125 classes if you combine the primary and the secondaries.
If you don't get it, I don't see what will make you get it.
And...there is also the topic about EPIC classes. CoH has them, again I suggest you go try it and learn.
Again, if we take WoW, since this is the game you obviously refers to all the time. They could use more SUPPORT classes, strong buffs and debuffs for the whole team to benefit, yet classes with very little good aspect beside these strong support. They could have a better soloing class with incredible regen capacities. See, I play WoW less then 24 hours and I already figure 2 classes which they could really add in to add much flavor. And I don't even bring their broken promises about EPIC classes...promises they never fullfill and then they start playing the SoE-game at explaining they never promise what they promise...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I asked for a class that would do something differently and you reply with a Support class. Blizzard purposely split the buffs between the various classes so there would be no need for a dedicated Support class.
Also, what more buffing do you need that's not already provided? After all the different buffs you get from Druids, Priests, Paladin Blessings, Mages, Shaman totems and the various potions there really isnt anything left to buff.
"They could have a better soloing class with incredible regen capacities."
It's called a Warlock
Cryptic has said that "epic" was a misnomer for Kheldians. I have 3 level 50s between CoH and CoV and I can tell you that Kheldians are not epic.
Blizzard said they stopped work on Epic classes because they couldnt get regular class balance right. Instead of throwing in epic classes or new classes that either ruin class balance or offer nothing unique just so some people can have something different to play around with in the low levels Blizzard did the smart thing and actually considered what these changes would bring to the game at all levels, in 5 man groups and raids. Blizzard even had a couple new classes planned but they were scrapped for these reasons.
I really cant stand expansion packs in most games. Sadly, its needed to keep most current games fresh. No new content = no fun after a while. I'd rather see expansion packs than games only last for two years and then get start over.
I prefer the micro-expansions that come "free" with the subscription, a la City of Heroes, Dungeons and Dragons, etc.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
I think a lot of people here are not understanding the OP. He did not ask if you hate the addition of new content but rather the addition of new content in single infrequent packages that you have to pay additional for.
Of course added content is a good thing providing they do it right. It just sux that they often make you feel like you are being milked.
Comments
You think TBC isn't a bad expansion? It made how much content obsolete because of Blizzard's obsession with making the end game as tedious as possible.
"I didn't enjoy TBC much either. Unlike in many of the EQ expansions they didn't add very much. EQ always added lots of new zones and new classes. The lack of adding new classes was what really hurt it for me. "
WoW has very bad class balance and it's constantly in flux. Throwing in another class at this point would completely ruin what little balanace there is now. Also, what would this new class be? A tank? Already have 3(and Warriors complained and complained when Druids were able to out tank them at the beginning of TBC so bears got nerfed). Another healer? 4 of those(Paladins had to be nerfed because Priests were complaining) DPS? Please, every class can effectively DPS.
"So...if I work hard on acquiring gear...I prefer that the expansion doesn't make my gear obsolete. "
So, in other words you spent all that time grinding for Tier 2 and now you want it to still be the best gear possible even at level 83?
The only "bad" thing TBC did was change raids and that should have been done a long time ago. 40 man raids is just stupidity. In fact, I would prefer they lower the cap again to 20. In the 40 man raids only half the raid was actually doing something, the other half was just tagging along for free phat lewtz.
The expansion packs that are actually bad are the ones that try and take the game in a whole new direction, it NEVER works. The expansions that add very little content and should have been applied in a free update are not especially beloved either, SOE seems to be the worst perpetrator of this type.
No a bad expansion is one that gives you the same experience in a different package. That's basically what TBC did. Going from 60-70 is like starting over at 1 all over again.
You go from getting to the good stuff to questing for unimpressive greens with better stats then your epic items, and then you spent all that time getting to the end-game raids (some call this the fun stuff). To grinding 10 levels just to do that all over again. They didn't improve on the game at all, they just gave you the same experience in a different package.
Wow for instance. Pre BC
WOOT I hit levle 60!!! now I get to raid omg yes!!!!
150 raids later.....
Now I am bored what do I do.....
OMG an expansion pack sweet now i can get to 70 and try to areas and mount and omg flying mounts.....and man new gear this is gonna be awesome........
I love expansion packs because They add new things to do and try to a game you already love you see what I mean?
---------------------------------------------
WoW
-Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue
-Rhalon 81 UD Mage
-Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
"If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura
---------------------------------------------
First, I will try to relate, as I am not playing WoW, yet as many around, I kinda know what WoW is anyway.
No, I never said I want old gear to be the best at 83...however, if old gear is useless now, you just destroy my very motivation. Why did I earn gear X with a lot of hardwork only to see it become useless? Replacing it with something that is better on everything is a mistake.
See, if a DEV put some content that is HARD to acquire and there is a point to get it at a moment, that DEV has a responsability to make sure there is still a good reason to earn it later in that game. Otherwise, he just remove all this content from the game with a back of his hand as well as telling me I just lose what I consider MOST of my character. If it take me 200 hours to get to max level and 500 hours to get the gear...that gear better be sweet, nice and usefull forever. As after all, there is more play time on acquiring that gear then on leveling. How a DEV accomplishes that...there are many ways. Maybe this gear is a ticket in order to be allowed to the next upgrade, maybe it is the best in some situation (in a malefactor/examplar, or in a resist, or in some dungeons). See, a DEV has to respect the players who trust him and actually play and earn stuff he places, not trash them by making everything obsolete and useless. This is the main problem of old EQ and WoW. No matter the gameplay and the details, if you have players who invest themsleves emotionnally, you can't make all that useless in a glimpse. You effectively remove all this content from the game (useless stuff isn't done) as well as "penalized" players who trust in you. Maybe the new gear that is better isn't equipable in some zones. Again, there are many solution. But making the hard-earned gear obsolete and useless isn't cool in my book.
You are telling ME that raiding moving from 40 players to 20 is a good thing? Welcome to these boards. You don't know me, nor have to. But IMO, a good raid should have a size of 8 players or less! So downing it from 40 to 20 is still timid IMO. I am on your side on this, yet, maybe further then you are!
I don't play any raiding game, this is why I don,t play WoW...or EQ...or EQ2.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Sometimes you get new skills that haven't been balanced too.
Many times the game as you know it changes drastically after an expansion.
Sometimes you aren't the flavor of the month anymore and everyone hangs out in other places.
You might even have to reroll to be the best after an expansion.
I think expansions are great and i always look forward to them.
Regarding new classes If you want people to keep going and roll alts you need to add new classes. New Races don't add anything new really. In Everquest the class balence was far worse then in Warcraft and they had far more classes. The expansions are what kept me playing for a long time with all the new classe and new content. I never had a major problem with class balence in WoW even though people like to complain about it all the time. There is always room for a new class.
Expansion packs are fine for the most part, they are there to give you more things to do. Some however are badly implemented, or change the game/add to the problems of the previos game like the burning crusade did for wow.
In tbc for instance, they added alot of pve raids again, made forced reputation grinds to be able to do instances, only added 1 new bg, and a very poorly implemented arena system, and badly thought out world pvp objectives. Thats not what makes it a bad expansion though. What makes it a bad expansion is the fact it makes all previous content obsolete, old raid dungeons are never going to be done again, and if you do do them all challenge from them is eliminated at 60+ due to the huge gear difference in the game.
Expansions should add new content, yes, but they should be done in a way that adds to the old content, not change the game completly and make all the previos content obsolete.
Honestly I think Blizzard is doing great. Not only that its another way for them to make money you release no new classes. So every one goes on man I want new classes.....Blizzard goes well wait for the next expansion. It comes out with 4 new classes and everyone is happy including blizzard because they can make more money off the new expansion.
But on topic I love expansion packs.
---------------------------------------------
WoW
-Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue
-Rhalon 81 UD Mage
-Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
"If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura
---------------------------------------------
ever play asherons call? this has been the only game with 1 expansion pack but with MONTHLY content updates on lore. Updates also include changes in skills and additions to the game as well that come standard with the monthly service fee which is quite less than those of newer MMORPGs which give either very little content updates if at all. Mostly related to balancing of classes and equipment.
I say get used to it. Expansions are way to generate more money for the company. Yet I do not manage such companies and do not know exactly what your service fees pay for.
I think it depends. A sandbox MMO that is perfectly polished with a truly player run economy where players are 100% free and not restrained by levels and gear and where player action effects the game world then I simply cringe at the idea of an xpac for that particular game. In a level based game where end game raiding and gear grinding are simply the goal then yes I think xpacs are probably necessary as those type of games are a never ending carrot on a stick game that keeps players coming back for more and more gear. And level based games with xpacs will probably do fine despite angering some of the raiders if the new content doesn't change the game play and mechanics that the majority of players enjoyed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think if a miracle happens and darkfall is released with all features promised, the only thing they would really need to do is fix bugs, and maybe add new tools to get rid of any unforseen restrictions on the game.
Personally i think darkfall will deliver, what it will most likely fail on is server stability which in a pvp game is the worse thing to possibly happen, especially with twitch based combat. Its seems far fetched we can have 10k users battling on a server at once lol maybe in 20 years that would be possible
If they said 2k per server it wouldn't sound like they were talking out of their arse, and give the game some chance at implementing all of the features without the lag to contend with
"Why did I earn gear X with a lot of hardwork only to see it become useless? Replacing it with something that is better on everything is a mistake."
Why get new gear at level 20 when you are just going to replace it all by level 30? Also, why did you raid for that gear at all? Why are you surprised that it was made obsolete by new gear? When you spent all that time raiding just to get that shiny set of armor you did it of your own free will. No one forced you to raid for hundreds of hours to get it. Yeah, Blizzard just might as well completely delete Molten Core from the game because no one is going to run it now but when it was the big thing it kept people playing and paying. They might as well delete Karazhan when the next expansion comes out too. Personally, I would like Blizzard to retune all the old raids and all the gear in them to be in line with the new raid caps and the new item level point distribution. Course, Tigole and Furor basically said that any time spent making old content more appealing to rerun these days is time not spent making new content.
"There is always room for a new class."
Again, I ask: what would this new class be? What would this new class do differently? Why would you want this class in a 5 man group or a raid instead of 1 of the 9 existing classes? There's only a couple roles to fill and only so many slots for those roles in groups and raids. Having a ton of classes is a bad thing when all of them are essentially doing 1 of 3 things.
I think if a miracle happens and darkfall is released with all features promised, the only thing they would really need to do is fix bugs, and maybe add new tools to get rid of any unforseen restrictions on the game.
Personally i think darkfall will deliver, what it will most likely fail on is server stability which in a pvp game is the worse thing to possibly happen, especially with twitch based combat. Its seems far fetched we can have 10k users battling on a server at once lol maybe in 20 years that would be possible
If they said 2k per server it wouldn't sound like they were talking out of their arse, and give the game some chance at implementing all of the features without the lag to contend with
I don't think it can be done, at all, ever. Players and games over the last 10 years have proven over and over again that it's impossible. I hope they prove me wrong, and only time will tell, but we already see it in games with strict player controls in place. Players cheat, game mechanisms fail, and giving too much control to players has proved 100% of the time that it doesn't work. I wish them luck, and hope they can figure it out, but I'm not holding my breath. (which is a long time to hold my breath
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Again, I don't particuliarly point at Blizzard, cause IMO, they are wasted time.
But, gear you earn while leveling isn't that important. You get it, as a second aspect, while you level up. Gear you work a LOT for without progressing in any other way, cannot be made completley obsolete.
Tigole and Furor are the most clueless peoples I ever have the disgrace to read. Putting sense into Brad head seem like a walk in the garden.
See, players are PROGRESSING, when you just remove a significant part of their progression and make it useless, you just remove their very motivation to even play the game.
Let's take an example.
Player A is happy at leveling up and he stops playing a game when he reaches max level. This player always enjoy getting more levels, since it ADDS on what he acquires.
Player B is happy acquiring gear. Each time you adds a new expansion, you made everything he did useless and he always feel like he is starting at 0 again, and again, and again.
Player A loves your game. Player B...well.
Making sure that nothing which take a LOT of time ever become obsolete is design 101. The fact Tigole and Furor are not able to grasp this point isn't my problem. As I said, they are a waste of time. There is no discussion, no arguing, when they are around you do the same thing as if you are in the bathroom.
Tigole and Furor are doing something even Brad wouldn't dream of. They are ruining WoW and Blizzard reputation. This is quite a feat. A feat of ineptitude, but a feat nonetheless. They even think they are responsible for WoW success, which is hilarious. Reading them is time wasted. This is like the lame jeweler who is happy to see a diamond sell for more then any other jewelry on the market, the fact he waste the diamond is absent from his mind, he is just not grasping it. A diamond is by definition worth more then other jewelry, ruining it, is a feat...and Tigole + Furor are achieving this feat with Blizzard and WoW...amazing.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Just go out and play a game like CoH. You have about 125 classes if you combine the primary and the secondaries.
If you don't get it, I don't see what will make you get it.
And...there is also the topic about EPIC classes. CoH has them, again I suggest you go try it and learn.
Again, if we take WoW, since this is the game you obviously refers to all the time. They could use more SUPPORT classes, strong buffs and debuffs for the whole team to benefit, yet classes with very little good aspect beside these strong support. They could have a better soloing class with incredible regen capacities. See, I play WoW less then 24 hours and I already figure 2 classes which they could really add in to add much flavor. And I don't even bring their broken promises about EPIC classes...promises they never fullfill and then they start playing the SoE-game at explaining they never promise what they promise...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Anofayle, you're the one not getting it.
Support class?! In WoW?!
I asked for a class that would do something differently and you reply with a Support class. Blizzard purposely split the buffs between the various classes so there would be no need for a dedicated Support class.
Also, what more buffing do you need that's not already provided? After all the different buffs you get from Druids, Priests, Paladin Blessings, Mages, Shaman totems and the various potions there really isnt anything left to buff.
"They could have a better soloing class with incredible regen capacities."
It's called a Warlock
Cryptic has said that "epic" was a misnomer for Kheldians. I have 3 level 50s between CoH and CoV and I can tell you that Kheldians are not epic.
Blizzard said they stopped work on Epic classes because they couldnt get regular class balance right. Instead of throwing in epic classes or new classes that either ruin class balance or offer nothing unique just so some people can have something different to play around with in the low levels Blizzard did the smart thing and actually considered what these changes would bring to the game at all levels, in 5 man groups and raids. Blizzard even had a couple new classes planned but they were scrapped for these reasons.
"All that glitters is not made of gold."
Any one else hate expansion packs?
Generally, yes!
In this day and age their main purpose is not in improving the gameplay and design, but rather enticing people into making a purchase.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Of course added content is a good thing providing they do it right. It just sux that they often make you feel like you are being milked.