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WoW this, WoW that. WoW wasnt the first....
Raven99
Member Posts: 111
Geez...
I'm sick of everyone calling every new game a WoW clone. You know what people WoW wasn't the first MMO to hit the shelves, and guess what its features? Not all of them were ground breaking with the launch of the game.
Lets compare:
WoWs quick slots? EQ2 and EQ had it first...
Its mini map? EQ and EQ 2 had it first...
It's.. It's little book that shows you all your abilities again... EQ and EQ2 had them first.
Interface in general..EQ and Eq2 ripoff.
Auto attack? Geez theres another EQ,EQ2 ripoffs
Character equipment managing screen? EQ, EQ 2 ripoff.
Raiding? Man there's another rip off from EQ and EQ2.
It's very PoVs and ability to change distance with mouse wheel? well that was ripped from numerous other games that came first.
WoW's pet classes? The pet class in general is a rip off from EQ,,,
In fact the whole class system is ripped from other games they couldn't even be original in naming there classes
The fact is nearly everything about every ones precious WoW? I can find in another game that came before WoW.
So do the world a favor and stop calling every new game that comes out a WoW clone, because WoW itself is nothing more than a smattering of ideas taken from other games. the only thing WoW has going for it thats is unique to it, is its graphics (nice landscapes, Horrid character models), and its Battlefield PvP system (though I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find a previous game that has already done it).
WoW was NOT the first, it will not be the last, and it is certainly not the best.
What gets me is how every one says that all these new games are coping there interface and such off of WoW.
If you WoW clone whiners know so many better ways to design and interface then by all means suggest them to the developers, because its been my experience that when devs try to make new ground breaking interfaces it ticks people off, and they complain
how its not simple enough, or its to hard to use.
There is likely not going to be a game that comes out that doesn't barrow some of its features from other games, so get used to it.
It's just good practice to go with what works, and what people have come to be used to where interfaces and such are concerned and other core mechanics. its done with more than games. its the way industry works.. take what works well from others and try and improve on it. There is nothing wrong with it.
The clone thing is just a means for people to attack new games, that they feel threaten to dethrone there precious WoW.
Have a nice day,
Raven
I'm sick of everyone calling every new game a WoW clone. You know what people WoW wasn't the first MMO to hit the shelves, and guess what its features? Not all of them were ground breaking with the launch of the game.
Lets compare:
WoWs quick slots? EQ2 and EQ had it first...
Its mini map? EQ and EQ 2 had it first...
It's.. It's little book that shows you all your abilities again... EQ and EQ2 had them first.
Interface in general..EQ and Eq2 ripoff.
Auto attack? Geez theres another EQ,EQ2 ripoffs
Character equipment managing screen? EQ, EQ 2 ripoff.
Raiding? Man there's another rip off from EQ and EQ2.
It's very PoVs and ability to change distance with mouse wheel? well that was ripped from numerous other games that came first.
WoW's pet classes? The pet class in general is a rip off from EQ,,,
In fact the whole class system is ripped from other games they couldn't even be original in naming there classes
The fact is nearly everything about every ones precious WoW? I can find in another game that came before WoW.
So do the world a favor and stop calling every new game that comes out a WoW clone, because WoW itself is nothing more than a smattering of ideas taken from other games. the only thing WoW has going for it thats is unique to it, is its graphics (nice landscapes, Horrid character models), and its Battlefield PvP system (though I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find a previous game that has already done it).
WoW was NOT the first, it will not be the last, and it is certainly not the best.
What gets me is how every one says that all these new games are coping there interface and such off of WoW.
If you WoW clone whiners know so many better ways to design and interface then by all means suggest them to the developers, because its been my experience that when devs try to make new ground breaking interfaces it ticks people off, and they complain
how its not simple enough, or its to hard to use.
There is likely not going to be a game that comes out that doesn't barrow some of its features from other games, so get used to it.
It's just good practice to go with what works, and what people have come to be used to where interfaces and such are concerned and other core mechanics. its done with more than games. its the way industry works.. take what works well from others and try and improve on it. There is nothing wrong with it.
The clone thing is just a means for people to attack new games, that they feel threaten to dethrone there precious WoW.
Have a nice day,
Raven
Comments
First off, EQ2 came out around the same time as WoW so take that off your list.
As far as the classes and pretty much the entire game as for as you say...
EQ didn't invent them.
Those classes come from DnD and other pen and paper roleplaying games. And DND and such got them from myths, legends, stories, history, and books.
Besides, it's not about that stuff that makes it a WoW clone.
I do, though, agree in that a lot of "WoW clones" arent really WoW clones. Maybe NGE SW:G..at least it attempted to be.
Also, you only mention the EQ series in your post. However, you go on to say that WoW took everything from other games. Can ya name a few to keep yourself consistent?
Finally, no game has yet even come close to threatening WoW. Maybe that will change. Besides, WoW wasn't created with too much originality in mind. Blizzard=perfection of an exisiting game type. Not much originality. (Before I get flamed, I said much, NOT any!)
let me explain to you what WoW DID do first. WoW was the first MMO that took content from other MMO's, actually improved that content and made it avaible to casual gamers. WoW is one of the first MMORPG where you can actually acomplish something in short time bursts.
It's about time people get their heads out of their asses.
WoW is here to stay.
WoW is popular.
Very popular.
More popular than any other MMO.
leave WoW alone and it will leave you alone.
i vote to let this thread die fast.
I know that in many games out there it will take longer to accomplish things then it does in WoW, but after clearing BWL, MC, most of AQ40 and etc hundreds and hundreds of times, for months and months dedicating 6 hours of every night, every week, and still not getting all the gear i expected to get, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER when you say short time bursts.
Although I'd agree that WoW is the ultimate of rehashed mmos, the 'It's a WoW clone' commenters are their own undoing in the fact that very little can be done so that you can make a MMO 100% unlike another.
So that said even if a game DID make somthing 'orginal' they'll be finding it elsewhere quite quickly, for example AoC, is that going to be the only game out there thats basically a FPS? Nope... we've already got planetside, and soon to be relased (looking like at the same time) Spellborn and TR.. even PotBS already has Voage century to compare to (hell even PotC is about and thats basically like both the others)..
TBH there are unique games out there be it style as in City and EVE or a differnet look into the way MMO is done from old school ideas with DDO and Dungeon Runners.. but those are either looked down on for 'not' being a 'MMO' or too 'l33test' but it's got nothing to do with the game it's players views that give them this, which irrocially players 'claim' they want but then don't want as it's too unlike what they know... No one can win in this situation
Point being anyone looking for a 'non-clone' title you'll NEVER find it, your best bet is to stick to whatever game your compearing the rest to.. IT'S YOU BEST OPTION, players just need to acsept that they're gonna have to make do, the 100% orginal game will not exist at all..
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
But the same can be said about any mmorpg, really.
I know that in many games out there it will take longer to accomplish things then it does in WoW, but after clearing BWL, MC, most of AQ40 and etc hundreds and hundreds of times, for months and months dedicating 6 hours of every night, every week, and still not getting all the gear i expected to get, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER when you say short time bursts.
that is only one part of the game, the endgame. Blizzard gave you 2 different factions and a lot of classes which play completely different from each other. Nobody but you is forcing you to stick to one character and dot he same raids over and over again.
I know that in many games out there it will take longer to accomplish things then it does in WoW, but after clearing BWL, MC, most of AQ40 and etc hundreds and hundreds of times, for months and months dedicating 6 hours of every night, every week, and still not getting all the gear i expected to get, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER when you say short time bursts.
that is only one part of the game, the endgame. Blizzard gave you 2 different factions and a lot of classes which play completely different from each other. Nobody but you is forcing you to stick to one character and dot he same raids over and over again.
TBH if you really want to 'clone' WoW do everything up to endgame and just miss out the raiding apect of it, tweak it so that trades are actaly the key source of endgame items, and open up the BGs to open area zones... The perfect casual and fun MMO not your second job which WoW is techally
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
I wonder what would happen if DAOC's graphics were updated to WoWs or FFXI.
In the last year they have nerfed rested experience and quest gain experience to virtually nill compared to what it used to be. In EverQuest 2, you can gain nearly 3 levels of rested experience in the low 40s with 2 days offline. I remember leveling my hunter to 60 in 5 days flat back in the day. Now, with twinked gear my friends using my strategy guide and exact same route can barely get there in 8 or 9. The raiding in the end-game of WoW is NOT casual friendly by any means. The casual gamer ( the ones with lives, jobs, family, ambitions, showers, friends, social atmosphere, bills) really only has enough time for 1 MAYBE 2 instance runs a night. Wheres the hardcore gamer can sit there for 10+ hours a day and brag about almost completing his dungeon 3 or t4 set after 3-4 months. Thats the problem though, I have friends who actually play WoW day in, day out and still have yet to get their gear... they have been doing this SINCE AQ and continue to do this.
This is how the game is designed, they lower the overall loot threshold, put in more items that improve overall stats by 3-14% and make you farm for months on end.
Now if by casual you mean " a guy who plays 1 hour a night can get to 70" then sure!, the game is casual and someone "can" get to 70 with minimal play time. Can they actually compete/compare at 70 though? no.
The harsh reality when you sit down and look at it, is that the 1-70 game in WoW is fairly casual. You CAN get there. The gear grind at 70 is not casual at all and is more of a headache than needed. The worst part of all the leveling in pre-expansion from 1-60 used to be entertaining with many people to group with. Now, it's mostly a ghost land and is getting harder for newcomers to get to that 60+ marker. I can't imagine how it's going to be after the next expansion. Mudflation and item stagnation are hitting this game hard already in the first expansion. I see now why they take their time and pump out 1/6th of the content as other games in equal time have pushed out ( eq2) for example.
The true casual gamers just cannot compete
People constantly complaining that WoW gets far more gratitude than it did. No, it was not the first MMORPG. No, it was not the best. No, it didn't have the greatest anything. It DID however open up a new gateway to an expansion of game content. The original ideas for the crafting, the raids, the mounts, the characters, everything. Wether people agree or not, this is the company that people looked up to so much for their past game successes. In fact, posting more boards about how it doesn't deserve so much gratification simply shines the spotlight on them even more.
Don't play the game if you don't like it. Don't go out of your way to show that they don't deserve appreciation by giving them even more attention. Get over the fact that this game was publicized well, with a gaming company that has a great history of producing ground-breaking MMO's. Sorry to tell you it's not going to change, you want to get peoples' minds off the game? See you in five years when you create your own original ideas.
The "Game X is a clone of WoW" comparison needs a bit of context. Game X may have Feature Y, which can be found in both EQ, EQ2, and WoW, but the company behind Game X didn't put Feature Y in their game to copy the success of EQ or EQ2. Feature Y was put into Game X because the company wanted to copy the success of WoW. That is why Game X is considered a WoW clone. WoW is more successful than every game combined, that the company (SOE) behind EQ and EQ2 has ever released.
The reason features that any game has, that are shared by WoW, is put into any new game is because WoW has those features, not because any other game has those features. WoW is the top dog in the MMO market, and trying to achieve even a quarter of WoW's subscriptions is the brass ring for companies making MMOs. Most current MMOs in development were able to find investors to fund them primarily due to WoW's success.
Most new games are going to be WoW clones, with maybe one or two new features to differentiate itself from all the other WoW clones, for the near future. Luckily, some companies will realize that they need to make something different, because no game can be more like WoW than WoW, and we'll be seeing some games that don't fit into the WoW mold.
In the last year they have nerfed rested experience and quest gain experience to virtually nill compared to what it used to be. In EverQuest 2, you can gain nearly 3 levels of rested experience in the low 40s with 2 days offline. I remember leveling my hunter to 60 in 5 days flat back in the day. Now, with twinked gear my friends using my strategy guide and exact same route can barely get there in 8 or 9. The raiding in the end-game of WoW is NOT casual friendly by any means. The casual gamer ( the ones with lives, jobs, family, ambitions, showers, friends, social atmosphere, bills) really only has enough time for 1 MAYBE 2 instance runs a night. Wheres the hardcore gamer can sit there for 10+ hours a day and brag about almost completing his dungeon 3 or t4 set after 3-4 months. Thats the problem though, I have friends who actually play WoW day in, day out and still have yet to get their gear... they have been doing this SINCE AQ and continue to do this.
This is how the game is designed, they lower the overall loot threshold, put in more items that improve overall stats by 3-14% and make you farm for months on end.
Now if by casual you mean " a guy who plays 1 hour a night can get to 70" then sure!, the game is casual and someone "can" get to 70 with minimal play time. Can they actually compete/compare at 70 though? no.
The harsh reality when you sit down and look at it, is that the 1-70 game in WoW is fairly casual. You CAN get there. The gear grind at 70 is not casual at all and is more of a headache than needed. The worst part of all the leveling in pre-expansion from 1-60 used to be entertaining with many people to group with. Now, it's mostly a ghost land and is getting harder for newcomers to get to that 60+ marker. I can't imagine how it's going to be after the next expansion. Mudflation and item stagnation are hitting this game hard already in the first expansion. I see now why they take their time and pump out 1/6th of the content as other games in equal time have pushed out ( eq2) for example.
The true casual gamers just cannot compete
EQ2 was made much more casual player friendly because of WoW's success. EQ2 was released with a whimper and shortly after had server merges. It was in line for an at once revamp, but the magnitude of failure that was Star Wars Galaxies' revamp caused SOE to decide to make their changes over time, to reduce the alienation of their existing EQ2 customers.
EQ2 is in its current state due to the success of WoW, and SOE management's decision to make their games more like WoW in order to appeal to WoW players, in the hopes that they will grow bored with WoW and try one of SOE's games (as said by John Smedley during the big blow up on the Star Wars Galaxies forum when the NGE was announced, sadly most of his posts from that time didn't survive the great 'accidental' purge duing the recentish forum changes).
Geez
I'm so sick of people thinking that someone actualy cares about this shit!
if WoW didnt exist then what would most of the "WoW clone" whiners have to complain about...you know what, when and there will be, another MMO that topples WoW and becomes the next big thing, 98% of the ppl that whine now will be complaining that everything is a clone of the new one...get over it before it turns into a vicious circle...
They didnt need to lie about their true numbers. Heck, during the last time they announced around 7 million they added new servers.. problem is? majority of those servers started to go low pop, even on the EU servers and foreign servers. What happened then ? WAM 8 million subscribers, but yet more servers appearing on the low.
All im saying is show your true numbers ( which is still amazing). It's almost like the richest man in the world having to lie and tack on another 5 billion just to show off.