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Group desirability
Anofalye
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433
So, you want groups to WANT you?
Here are the important things that will get you grouped:
- Kinetic (peoples never have enought of these)
- Radiation (always want 1, can use a second)
- Stone Armor at level 32+ (38+ for villains), Invul before in the lowbie areas
- Empath/Thermal
- Sonic, Bubbles, Cold or Dark buffers
Pretty much in that order. Defender is a lot better then anything else, but fear not, if you are a /kinetic, everyone would want you regardless.
Other sets are more or less accepted, but never really wanted or desired by anyone in the group.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
Well congratulations for perpetuating stereotypical builds/powersets. The one thing I've always enjoyed about CoX was the fact that whatever your powerset, you were pretty much welcome in any group. It's narrow minded 'elitism' like this that allows it to continue.
You should be encouraging people to experiment with different power combinations, and also encouraging groups not to be so blinkered when choosing members.
To be honest I'm surprised to see you posting something like this, shame Anofalye
Well.
I could lie and post what you want to read. But it doesn't change the fact, what peoples want. I think been honest to everyone around is important.
Players will prefer these over anything else; pretty much in that order.
I did have 5 characters level 50, and the fact that none are really desired is certainly affecting me and making me post that. Been the spare wheel because nothing else is available lead to such posts. If stone wasn't grossly outmatching invul, ela and anything else, I would prolly never have think over it enough to eventually give such a post. But stoners are grossly outmatching invul, ela or anything else, up to a point it is ridiculous.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I've been playing CoH/V for three years as an Assault Rifle / Devices Blaster - one of the supposedly weakest Blaster ATs - and I've never had trouble getting a team or been kicked for playing a gimped AT combo. And I PUG all the time. YMMV.
If you like being imaginative and just having fun, ignore the OP
This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. My stone is pre 32 and does fine. My Fire tank is also pre 32 and does almost as good as my stone. Kins are good, but unless I'm running my stone (and sometimes while running my stone) I prefer a good rad.
And before you start the "These are the only good powersets for Statesman's task force." Just remember that the Repeat Offenders coalition runs mostly without tanks and I believe did the STF with 3 kin defenders, 3 rad defenders, and 2 nrg blasters. Any well played team can beat any mission in this game.
However, as I said, I've never felt unwanted with any AT or powerset combo I've played. The great thing I like about COH is that it's the easiest game to play and find a team no matter what AT or power combo you are. I do see less invites on COV though, but that's probably because there are less players playing COV than COH at any given time.
In my opinion, the best way to be wanted by a team is to be a good player who knows how to adjust to team situations. to be a player that spent the time to learn about the game and how all AT's and powers work in combination with each other. To learn how to effectively use any powers or AT you have. to be patient and respect other players opinions even if you disagree with them or their tactics. Communication is key. What two people understand about each other through communicaton greatly outweighs any other aspect of the game. You can have two players who's powers suck or don't have good synergy but as long as both players are knowledgeable and have learned how to adapt to get maximum effectiveness out of power combo's, you will easily have a good time with bad AT/power combo's as you will with the more popular ones and teams will want you because of that.
As someone said, it's the player that makes the difference, not the AT or powers. Anyone who thinks that certain powers are the key to being wanted or being successful in teams is a person that isn't very knowledgeable (maybe not even skilled) enough to make judgements on what powers or AT's are wanted. Nothing bothers me more in COX than players in a team who rather stand around for 30 minutes until they can find a healing defender or a stone tank because they don't think they have the talent, powers or skills to defeat a mission or task. Fact is, having that healer or that tanker makes things easier, yes! but by no means are they mandatory or that a team can' t do anything without them. Sadly though, people who think like this are those that simply want the "I win" button and don't want to take the time to learn how to be the most effective with what they have instead of relying on instant healing or taunting tankers.
When I join a team like this (which I think is a bad team no matter what AT's and powers they have), I hit the quit team button and find another team and keep doing so until I find a team that doesn't care about your AT and powers. If I can't find a decent team that I can compromise with, then I go and solo. while those teams that think they need only a specific type of AT and powerset to be successful sit around for 30 minutes trying to find that healer or tanker, I'm off completing missions and maybe even leveling up some.
CAN and PREFER is something most peoples who replied have no clues how to differenciated.
I run the RSF with 3 stalkers once and no brutes, no corruptor...and we did it. It was an exploit, I am proud of it...but no, I won't do that again, no thanks.
CAN and PREFER are differents things. Peoples in general will prefer the set I mentionned above other sets. They may accept weaker built and it may very well work, that doesn't mean it is optimal or that it would be the case everyday.
And to the person saying you prefer rad over kin...well, if I have to pick 1 or the other, I would pick the rad as well, since it debuff. But once I have 1 rad, I will want as many kin as I can get. 5 kins....sweeet thing. 5 rads? Not really.
Eventually, you won't be selected because the peoples have access to a stronger built and prefer it over your "cool but unefficient" built. CAN and PREFER are differents things.
An invul brute CAN do the job, but peoples PREFER a stone, for a freaking good reason. And so on with all the examples above. Success and efficiency does matter.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
There is some truth to this, about people's preferences on what to have on a team. However, you used the word optimal, and that just isn't the case for CoH.
Take tankers for example. A stone tanker by himself is way more sturdier then a fire tanker. However, a fire tanker can still do a good job of tanking, and he will do as good a job as the stone tank if he has some good defender/controller support. Sure the stone tanker is still tougher, but the fire tanker is good enough to do his job, and so the differences between them doesn't matter.
Davynelord is right, any well made character will contribute just fine to the team if played well. That's the beauty of CoH, the ATs support each other so well, that just about any combo of them will work if played well.
Now the one problem I see with your list is that you didn't have any damage dealers. If I join a team and just see a stone tanker and some controller and defenders, I am going to want to get some scrappers and blasters.
Now the one problem I see with your list is that you didn't have any damage dealers. If I join a team and just see a stone tanker and some controller and defenders, I am going to want to get some scrappers and blasters.
Well, with all the buffs and debuffs, everyone is dealing tremendous damage...including a stone tanker.
I play villain side mostly...the corrupters are heavy ranged-damage dealers, all of them.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The debuffs of 5 rad doesn't stack nicely. 5 AMs is nice, but it doesn't compete with 1 AM and 2 SB, not even considering 5 SB...
See, with 5 kinetics in group, everyone in group is at their damage cap easily, whatever it is. Not the case with 5 rad...as long as you have 1 good rad, you don't really need a second, the second is a welcome assurance, but that is it.
Now, the ideal bunch of 5 support is: 2 kins, 1 rad, 1 dark and another (let take sonic for example). Dark + Rad + Sonic debuffs stack perfectly well, completely outmatching the debuffs of 5 rads, as the rad already cut down the regen, the sonic has real high %, and the dark is just awesome to top it all. Sonic + Dark buff (+ID if we want) = resist cap is reached quite often if not always (except for the sonic buffer, which is your precious jewel to protect). 2 SB + AM = insane recovery and recharge. Damage cap may be reached. Debuffs have stacking issues, which buffs doesn't have. The second rad debuffs are...limited in effectiveness.
Taking VENGEANCE in your example is not really appropriate, as this isn't rad-related, most stoners have it (they can spare the amount of powers easily, the limit of 4 alternative pools is the real limit here)...and almost everyone in the list I put up there has Vengeance (dark are those without vengeance most often in that list).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
6 DEFENDERS hitting any mission- well we all know Defenders are like crazy powerful
<edit> maybe you didnt mean to be taken literally (I got hiddeous nightmare visions of 8 stalkers trying to farm end game together)? If you are not making an across the board statement then no way i can refute your claims. I do know 8 Dominators did complete the end game content so if you are speaking figuretively and within reasonable bounds then I say good post. I just wish you woulda been more specific so not leave yourself open to misinterpretation
some good profound wisdom here. The developers follow your thinking so no matter what anyone else says, the Developers want for CoX to be like this. I thik most sets are indeed effective in PvE
I think I can truly consider myself blessed that I know no one who prescribes to your line of thinking. Do my rads and kins get invites? Sure! But they pale in comparison to my scrappers and ice tank. Yes, roll up a kin if you want to be bombarded with 'SB plz' before the last one wears off. Dark defenders and corruptors will have to deal with the ignorance of a playerbase who pretty much has zero clue of what they actually do ("Just heal"). Sonics have to deal with some people whining about their powers causing headaches (and many times, Sonics are avoided for that very reason) so go ahead and roll one up since people PREFER to have those headaches.
I have to tell you that the last sentence of the above quote is pure and utter ordure. Seriously. Scrappers aren't wanted or desired by "anyone in the group"? Maybe this is only a villain side thing, I dunno. You mention RSF which I imagine villains would like to do a lot since they don't have access to Katie Hannon.
Oh, and hi UnSub!
Post ED i killed some even level AV alone, and also many monsters before devs buffed them. I used to be also the main taunt team tanker at Hamidon (pre I9).
I asked for a STF in a public channel and i was really disappointed to hear from ppl that my AT is not good for STF!! Unfotunately i was out for many months and found very few old friends to team with. I already got all the badges from recluses AV, why i could not do STF??
I always hate all the stupid peeps that want to make differences with AT. What's important is the TEAM. And always there peeps that forget that *ANY* tanker became an iron wall with a defender buffs.
So, i never liked this behaviour. I teamed with many peeps in the past not regarding at AT's but at people. More, i prefer accomplish a task with different way instead of following the obvious things. I still remember how fun was a respec trial done in a 4-tank-only team.
How is it possible that the community, at least here in EU servers, become so bad in few months?
I resubbed to see I9 and it's a nice addition, but i'm not sure i will be really back ingame with so many kids around.
EDIT: i've just read you, Davynelord. Of course i totally agree with you
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
Yes sometimes a kin makes a good team great, but I have been on many "perfect teams", derived from the ones in the first post, that did horrible. If everyone is pulling their weight any combo is a good team, but balance is always better.
The only thing is I do agree with the first post as well, he wasn't really saying the these are the only good AT's, he was saying what people are looking for, so you can get a team. People are always looking for Kins because most people like to go all out and a Kin allows them to do so. Rad is great because it can make a strong object feel less threatening. I think the idea of the thread was more of a "whats popular in game" not "whats the best team make-up" or "whats the most powerful team"
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in my experience i look for 2 things in a teammate
1) Something besides "no blind invites" on his/her L.F.T. screen
2) A basic understanding of group dynamics
I tend to play tankers, I avoid earth/stone as it covers my costume, in a game based on customisation why look like a walking (barely) turd?
The small amount of psi defense you get is not balanced by the move penalty or the walking(barely) turd thing.
Invulnerable may have no psi defense but that don't keep me from standing up to +5 level mobs without a noticeable dent in my health.
The new willpower set is a great combination of regeneration and invulnerable with psi defense thrown in and i have no problem being desirable to groups.
Hey, I like my stone tanker! Still, I'd rather group with a "suboptimal" team that made me laugh and got me killed three times than I would an "optimal" team that rolled through missions but wouldn't stop bickering. If I just wanted to grind for experience, I could do that on my own. I tend to solo a lot in other games, but the fun in this game comes from the people you're with; if the people you're with are jerks, no build is going to save your evening.
I picked my stone/fire tanker largely for theme (the Brimstone Bouncer!), and I'd rather be with other people who did the same thing than people who chose a power-set simply to get invites. Believe me, even as a Stone Tanker that spends a lot of time in Granite, if the choice for my team came down to an Assault Rifle Blaster named "Colonel Crisis" and a Kinetics Defender with the breast slider at max named "Jugz RHawt," the Colonel's getting the invite. If Anofayle's right about his assessment, though, the people responding in this thread must be exceptions to the rule. I find that to be a sad thing.
They have some of those things, but not to the level my guy did. Putting -60 res on an entire spawn every spawn and making half the spawn slip and fall and attack at -50% speed. Plus defending the entire back line in an emergency with hurricane/tornado/lightning storm. In a pinch I could tank an entire 8 man spawn while the other defenders controllers stayed alive and rez/heal the scraapper or tank whatever.
Fact is in the situation the kin what have gone down like a 2 dollar ho and my stormy wound up contributing just as much damage buffage. And could stun bosses at a whim. And on a boss or AV tornado + -res does blaster level damage.
Anyway I had no problems getting groups nor was I ever kicked in favor of another defender. I have been in groups where the stone tank demanded getting a kin, but that is because stone tankers need kins or its painful.
Grouping with any build is a strong point of this game. That being said, there are a few jerks, as in any game, who are snobbish. There are more people who actually get booted from group due to personality conflicts.
No doubt about I had idiots ask my storm defender to heal and I am thinking if you think O2 boost is going to keep you alive better than freezing rain then you might as well get a lobotomy because you can't get any stupider so you might as well lose a few pounds.Grouping with any build is a strong point of this game. That being said, there are a few jerks, as in any game, who are snobbish. There are more people who actually get booted from group due to personality conflicts.
Thankfully while it happens its not that prevalent.
I always had fun playing my Fire/Emp controller (David Pyrons) on the EU Union (Onion FTW!). i chose it not for grouping reasons (although only later on did i realise how much it was liked), but more for keeping me alive. (oh how wrong was I in that respect) as levelling solo was very hard going at the start (pre I4 for EU release), seeing as brawl was my most damaging attack >.<
I learnt the hard way (ie lots of dying) on how to slot my character properly, what went were etc. And also used a few respecs along the way (i tinkered with a PvP build, then discovered that my group playability was greatly hindered for MY style).
Best bit about my character was, with the exception of a few AV's, with me in a group, we could skip some of the more sterotypical requirements for a group. Quite often i was often the only healer or Crowd Control person on a team. Sometimes even both (ever seen a controller draw aggro off a tanker? Trust me it CAN be done
)
The powersets that the OP listed although nice are NOT required in a group. Its how well the group plays together that makes a group good or bad. I have quit many a group that were the above powersets but just didnt mesh as playstyles.
And then i have seen some people play 'gimped' powersets so wonderfully well, it just makes you wonder if they were haX0r1ng the game.