Things like this should NEVER be left up to the voters and these legislatures saw that. We do not live in a democracy and there is a reason for that.
What? We DO live in a democracy. And this IS something that should have been up to the voters. Well last time I checked, America also takes great pride in being a FREE COUNTRY.
You should not have a say in someone else's happiness. Period. Read a few posts above. what posts? I don't see any post that justifies you should have a say in someone else's life.
Things like this should NEVER be left up to the voters and these legislatures saw that. We do not live in a democracy and there is a reason for that.
What? We DO live in a democracy. And this IS something that should have been up to the voters.
Representative Democracy
Representative democracy involves the selection of government officials by a majority of votes by the people being represented. Representatives may be elected by a particular district (or constituency), or represent the electorate as a whole as in many proportional systems, with some using a combination of the two. Some representative democracies also incorporate elements of direct democracy, such as referenda. A characteristic of representative democracy is that while the representatives are elected by the people, to act in their interest, they retain the freedom to exercise their own judgment as how best to do so.
Liberal Democracy
Liberal democracy is a representative democracy along with the protection of minorities, the rule of law, a separation of powers, and protection of liberties (thus the name liberal) of speech, assembly, religion, and property. Conversely, an illiberal democracy is one where the protections that form a liberal democracy are either nonexistent, or not enforced.
Some would also say we live in a Republic, which we technically do. Though the line between the two types of Democracy noted above, and a Republic are fairly blurry.
However, we do not live in a Direct Democracy, with the pseudo-exception of at the State, County and/or Local level when there are certain issues that are on the ballet. However, as noted up above, our elected representatives have the authority to exercise their own judgement. Otherwise, blacks would still be getting hung in the south for daring to date a white woman, go to a white school, or simply drink from the same water fountain as a white. Majority rule is a very bad way to run things, because it doesn't take but a few people with weapons, and the will to use them, to make your group the minority very quickly. And then what?
People can't agree on the simplest of things. They are simple minded savages that understand only violence, sex, and more violence. Any tribe other than your own is different, and therefore the enemy, and must be destroyed. Then religion gets thrown into the mix, just to add fuel to the fire. Anyone squeamish about slaughtering the barbarians suddenly feels a lot better when it's decreed by Gawd that the heathen should be slain. Nothing new under the sun.
Religious Marriage should be between a man and a woman. (IE a marriage in a church) Legal marriage done by a civil servant (like a judge) should be between any sex. Man/Man Man/Woman Woman/Woman should all legally be allowed. Whether it is called a marriage or not, well that is up to society really, but a civil union should be allowed by all people no matter what sexual orientation they are. (and that civil union should confer all the same rights that a marriage does, no exceptions and it should be nation wide)
But I still stand by that Marriage in the religious sense should not be allowed at least in christian churches, since it is specifically against the Bible.
Who are you to say that the true meaning of religion says that you can't marry the same sex. You go by the bible which is MAN MADE and not actual facts. Everything in the bible is on par with a fairy tale. If a gay couple is religious who are you to stop them from having there church bell weddings? If there gay who cares is it really effecting your way of life if they got married in a church? Yeah its not.Surely a religion, denomination or church can choose to marry (or not) whoever they want? Or are you suggesting the government should come in and force their hand over such things?Im more of the opinion its not in the hands of neither. Every religious officals beliefs are based off whatever the main book and that book was made by man so how can u say its true. If you want to bring what god would want you should also put in perspective that God created these people aswell and they choose to be gay because god gave them the choice. None of the ten commandments say anything about gay marriage and if two gay people love eachother im 100% sure that god would approve of this. Government should have anything to do with this and also yes if certain churches don't want to marry someone one they will only spawn new churches of the same beliefs so the gays could get married so its kind of pointless for a priest to deny this.
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Religious Marriage should be between a man and a woman. (IE a marriage in a church) Legal marriage done by a civil servant (like a judge) should be between any sex. Man/Man Man/Woman Woman/Woman should all legally be allowed. Whether it is called a marriage or not, well that is up to society really, but a civil union should be allowed by all people no matter what sexual orientation they are. (and that civil union should confer all the same rights that a marriage does, no exceptions and it should be nation wide)
But I still stand by that Marriage in the religious sense should not be allowed at least in christian churches, since it is specifically against the Bible.
Who are you to say that the true meaning of religion says that you can't marry the same sex. You go by the bible which is MAN MADE and not actual facts. Everything in the bible is on par with a fairy tale. If a gay couple is religious who are you to stop them from having there church bell weddings? If there gay who cares is it really effecting your way of life if they got married in a church? Yeah its not.Surely a religion, denomination or church can choose to marry (or not) whoever they want? Or are you suggesting the government should come in and force their hand over such things?Im more of the opinion its not in the hands of neither. Every religious officals beliefs are based off whatever the main book and that book was made by man so how can u say its true. If you want to bring what god would want you should also put in perspective that God created these people aswell and they choose to be gay because god gave them the choice. None of the ten commandments say anything about gay marriage and if two gay people love eachother im 100% sure that god would approve of this. Government should have anything to do with this and also yes if certain churches don't want to marry someone one they will only spawn new churches of the same beliefs so the gays could get married so its kind of pointless for a priest to deny this.
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit. There are Christian churches that say homosexuality is not a sin. I say they deserve the same respect for their beliefs as a church who says it is a sin. It seems to be a growing interpretation too. It's certainly something I found to be a lot more believable than saying a group of people are sinful in their natural love for one another. That just doesn't sound too Godlike to me.
Religious Marriage should be between a man and a woman. (IE a marriage in a church) Legal marriage done by a civil servant (like a judge) should be between any sex. Man/Man Man/Woman Woman/Woman should all legally be allowed. Whether it is called a marriage or not, well that is up to society really, but a civil union should be allowed by all people no matter what sexual orientation they are. (and that civil union should confer all the same rights that a marriage does, no exceptions and it should be nation wide)
But I still stand by that Marriage in the religious sense should not be allowed at least in christian churches, since it is specifically against the Bible.
Who are you to say that the true meaning of religion says that you can't marry the same sex. You go by the bible which is MAN MADE and not actual facts. Everything in the bible is on par with a fairy tale. If a gay couple is religious who are you to stop them from having there church bell weddings? If there gay who cares is it really effecting your way of life if they got married in a church? Yeah its not.Surely a religion, denomination or church can choose to marry (or not) whoever they want? Or are you suggesting the government should come in and force their hand over such things?Im more of the opinion its not in the hands of neither. Every religious officals beliefs are based off whatever the main book and that book was made by man so how can u say its true. If you want to bring what god would want you should also put in perspective that God created these people aswell and they choose to be gay because god gave them the choice. None of the ten commandments say anything about gay marriage and if two gay people love eachother im 100% sure that god would approve of this. Government should have anything to do with this and also yes if certain churches don't want to marry someone one they will only spawn new churches of the same beliefs so the gays could get married so its kind of pointless for a priest to deny this.
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit. There are Christian churches that say homosexuality is not a sin. I say they deserve the same respect for their beliefs as a church who says it is a sin. It seems to be a growing interpretation too. It's certainly something I found to be a lot more believable than saying a group of people are sinful in their natural love for one another. That just doesn't sound too Godlike to me. There isn't anything wrong with a church deciding it is ok. But to make a law where all churches would have to do it is wrong. That is the problem. Homosexuals want to change the law to be allowed to get married, but changing the law needs to be done in such a way that it protects churches that do not want to perform homosexual marriages. That is the only way to be fair.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
You should not have a say in someone else's happiness. Period. Read a few posts above. what posts? I don't see any post that justifies you should have a say in someone else's life.
Representative Democracy
Representative democracy involves the selection of government officials by a majority of votes by the people being represented. Representatives may be elected by a particular district (or constituency), or represent the electorate as a whole as in many proportional systems, with some using a combination of the two. Some representative democracies also incorporate elements of direct democracy, such as referenda. A characteristic of representative democracy is that while the representatives are elected by the people, to act in their interest, they retain the freedom to exercise their own judgment as how best to do so.
Liberal Democracy
Liberal democracy is a representative democracy along with the protection of minorities, the rule of law, a separation of powers, and protection of liberties (thus the name liberal) of speech, assembly, religion, and property. Conversely, an illiberal democracy is one where the protections that form a liberal democracy are either nonexistent, or not enforced.
Some would also say we live in a Republic, which we technically do. Though the line between the two types of Democracy noted above, and a Republic are fairly blurry.
However, we do not live in a Direct Democracy, with the pseudo-exception of at the State, County and/or Local level when there are certain issues that are on the ballet. However, as noted up above, our elected representatives have the authority to exercise their own judgement. Otherwise, blacks would still be getting hung in the south for daring to date a white woman, go to a white school, or simply drink from the same water fountain as a white. Majority rule is a very bad way to run things, because it doesn't take but a few people with weapons, and the will to use them, to make your group the minority very quickly. And then what?
People can't agree on the simplest of things. They are simple minded savages that understand only violence, sex, and more violence. Any tribe other than your own is different, and therefore the enemy, and must be destroyed. Then religion gets thrown into the mix, just to add fuel to the fire. Anyone squeamish about slaughtering the barbarians suddenly feels a lot better when it's decreed by Gawd that the heathen should be slain. Nothing new under the sun.
Clicky
On a personal note though, does it really matter to anybody else what others do in the privacy of their own bedrooms?
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit. There are Christian churches that say homosexuality is not a sin. I say they deserve the same respect for their beliefs as a church who says it is a sin. It seems to be a growing interpretation too. It's certainly something I found to be a lot more believable than saying a group of people are sinful in their natural love for one another. That just doesn't sound too Godlike to me.
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</OBAMA>
It isn't pointless for a priest to deny it, because it is against the teachings of his church. Think of it like this:
Gay marriage being against the rules of the church is like drinking under 21 is against the law in the US. You can choose to go somewhere where the drinking law is under 21, you can choose to try and change the drinking law in your country, or you can just live with it the way it is. Well in most Churches you can't change the law, they are already set. Also, most people aren't going to just let it go, they want equal rights to married couples (and some want marriages just the same as hetero couples). So you are left with going somewhere else. So in those cases you can either find a Church that will support your marriage or start your own.
But it is definitely not pointless for a priest to deny Gay marriage when it is strongly against their religious beliefs. (and no I am not God, but according to that particular faith God has already said his opinion. Sure you can read the bible and take it anyway you feel, but many religions have already done this and come up with the fact that Gay marriage is against what God wants.)
And the last thing to keep in mind is being Gay is a sin, but it isn't any worse of a sin as having casual sex if you are hetero, or talking back to your parents, or looking at porn, or any other of numerous things that people do each day. In the eyes of God we are all sinners and all sin is equal. According to the Bible Jesus already came and died for all the sins we had committed and all the sins that mankind was still going to commit. There are Christian churches that say homosexuality is not a sin. I say they deserve the same respect for their beliefs as a church who says it is a sin. It seems to be a growing interpretation too. It's certainly something I found to be a lot more believable than saying a group of people are sinful in their natural love for one another. That just doesn't sound too Godlike to me. There isn't anything wrong with a church deciding it is ok. But to make a law where all churches would have to do it is wrong. That is the problem. Homosexuals want to change the law to be allowed to get married, but changing the law needs to be done in such a way that it protects churches that do not want to perform homosexual marriages. That is the only way to be fair.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)