LOL, dude your a trip, and very testy too. I'm just so sorry I don't hang on every word enough to pay attention. Let me take your post to heart, change my ways, and always be more attentive from now on. You're such a superior poster with all your "facts" and know how, how can I ever compete! Doesn't that feel better now Mikie? On a more serious note, no I'm not referring to any other industry but this one, but I'm glad you could get off your pedestal enough to admit to the "fact" that its not industry standard to delete characters/accounts.
As for "not hanging on every word long enough to pay attention"
Seems paying attention is exactly your problem. Perhaps you should start.
1. You wouldn't make an ass out of yourself by responding to posts that aren't quoting, responding to, nor targeted at you in any way.
2. You wouldn't be so dismayed when something you accepted by way of agreeing to a ToS, actually happens... ie. your account being lost due to extended inactivity.
By the by... Your feeble attempts at sarcasm aren't lost on me. They just suck.
Wow, I didn't know I was making an ass out of myself. Thank you Fan Boi Mikie, and for pen pointing the error in my ways. You rock!
I'm a "fan boi" because I believe that it's not unfair when a company holds me to a ToS I agreed to, even if I disagree with it. I suppose it's my cue now to admit defeat and cower away in a corner somewhere.
And thank you for the BBB link... Very informative.. 5 years in service.. an average of 500-600k active subscriptions for most of that time... and only 162 complaints filed against them, for all issues combined, in the past 3 years; I seriously hope you don't believe all 162 were for the same reason as you... If you do... well... can't help ya there.
Let's break those numbers down. Using the low number of 500k active subscriptions, that means 1 in every 3086 players has filed a complaint that the BBB has found legitimate over a period of 1095 days. At the high end of 600k, that's 1 in about every 3704. All in all, I'd say those are some pretty good numbers. A quick check of SOE reveals about twice that amount in the same time-frame... and apparently SOE doesn't have this horrible policy of deleting accounts or characters (even though they have a clause for such an event right in their own ToS). In other words, the numbers cited for SE aren't as "telling" as you'd like to believe.
I've had issues with the service at times too, and had lost my log-in info. A phone call to their customer service cleared it up in minutes. I lost my character of over 2 years at one point due to an error in judgement on my part. In standing with their ToS, there was nothing they could do to restore it. Did I cry and complain? Nope. I accepted that I goofed, started a new character from scratch and all is well. So... do I sympathize with people who've lost characters or accounts? Sure. Do I sympathize with people who cry and complain because SE did exactly what their own ToS said they would? Not at all. If that makes me a "fan boi" in your eyes, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
As for the blog... Umm... It's a personal blog called "n3rfed". I can point to a number of blogs whose posters agree with my point-of-view, too. Yay. It means nothing. Sorry... You should have stopped with the BBB numbers.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Ahhh yes... the "fan boi" card. I'm a "fan boi" because I believe that it's not unfair when a company holds me to a ToS I agreed to, even if I disagree with it. I suppose it's my cue now to admit defeat and cower away in a corner somewhere.
And thank you for the BBB link... Very informative.. 5 years in service.. an average of 500-600k players the whole time... and only 162 complaints filed against them, for all issues combined, in the past 3 years; I seriously hope you don't believe all 162 were for the same reason as you... If you do... well... can't help ya there. Using the low number of 500k active subscriptions, that means 1 in every 3086 players has filed a complaint that the BBB has found legitimate over a period of 1095 days. All in all, I'd say those are some pretty good numbers. A quick check of SOE reveals about twice that amount in the same time-frame, and I still wouldn't consider that bad. I've had issues with the service at times too, and had lost my log-in info. A phone call to their customer service cleared it up in minutes. I lost my character of over 2 years at one point due to an error in judgement on my part. In standing with their ToS, there was nothing they could do to restore it. Did I cry and complain? Nope. I accepted that I goofed, started a new character from scratch and all is well. So... do I sympathize with people who've lost characters or accounts? Sure. Do I sympathize with people who cry and complain because SE did exactly what their own ToS said they would? Not at all. If that makes me a "fan boi" in your eyes, then I'm perfectly happy with that. As for the blog... Umm... It's a personal blog called "n3rfed". I can point to a number of blogs whose posters agree with my point-of-view, too. Yay. It means nothing. Sorry... You should have stopped with the BBB numbers.
No, these makes you a fan boi, hell I'm beginning to think you work there
So with that said... SE rating is horrible. I can point too many other posts where people are feeling jipped by SE so we're not going anywhere on that issue. Other then you just being the model forums poster , you and I are stating the same thing. SE has shady business tactics.
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Ahhh yes... the "fan boi" card. I'm a "fan boi" because I believe that it's not unfair when a company holds me to a ToS I agreed to, even if I disagree with it. I suppose it's my cue now to admit defeat and cower away in a corner somewhere.
And thank you for the BBB link... Very informative.. 5 years in service.. an average of 500-600k players the whole time... and only 162 complaints filed against them, for all issues combined, in the past 3 years; I seriously hope you don't believe all 162 were for the same reason as you... If you do... well... can't help ya there. Using the low number of 500k active subscriptions, that means 1 in every 3086 players has filed a complaint that the BBB has found legitimate over a period of 1095 days. All in all, I'd say those are some pretty good numbers. A quick check of SOE reveals about twice that amount in the same time-frame, and I still wouldn't consider that bad. I've had issues with the service at times too, and had lost my log-in info. A phone call to their customer service cleared it up in minutes. I lost my character of over 2 years at one point due to an error in judgement on my part. In standing with their ToS, there was nothing they could do to restore it. Did I cry and complain? Nope. I accepted that I goofed, started a new character from scratch and all is well. So... do I sympathize with people who've lost characters or accounts? Sure. Do I sympathize with people who cry and complain because SE did exactly what their own ToS said they would? Not at all. If that makes me a "fan boi" in your eyes, then I'm perfectly happy with that. As for the blog... Umm... It's a personal blog called "n3rfed". I can point to a number of blogs whose posters agree with my point-of-view, too. Yay. It means nothing. Sorry... You should have stopped with the BBB numbers.
No, these makes you a fan boi, hell I'm beginning to think you work there
So with that said... SE rating is horrible. I can point too many other posts where people are feeling jipped by SE so we're not going anywhere on that issue. Other then you just being the model forums poster , you and I are stating the same thing. SE has shady business tactics.
Wow... I'm showing support for a job-well-done in a game I happen to enjoy playing. Damn, you got me.
...
Are you for real? You cite two posts where I'm speaking out positively about SE's verifiable success in fighting RMT as proof that I'm a "fanboi"? And that's supposed to insult me? Am I to conclude that you're a RMT supporter?
Seriously. You are a joke
While you're at it, Sherlock, do a little more digging and youll find that I am consistently out-spoken against RMT - in any form, in any game. So yes, I am going to post a positive commentary when a company who develops a game I have enjoyed playing for 4 years now is successful against it, bringing the in-game economy lower than it's been in over 2 years. Damn straight I am.
After seeing how many other companies do alot of talking and push alot of PR, but take no real action against RMT in their games, I am extremely happy to be paying a subscription fee to a company that isn't blowing smoke up my ass about the issue.
I'll even quote the relevant section for you, since you lack the attention span to read all that, I'm sure:
"The Bureau processed a total of 336 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 336 complaints closed in 36 months, 55 were closed in the last year."
You're welcome.
-sigh-
And I guess you didn't get the point of the numbers on BBB. My point is... that that is a *very* low number of complaints overall compared to the recorded number of active subscriptions over the past 3 years. I used SOE as an example that even a company that *doesn't* have an express cancellation policy has more complaints against them in the same time period, and to show that SE's stats aren't as "telling" as you frame them to be. Apparently I over-estimated your ability to put 2 and 2 together. Next time I'll present it in pre-school language with colorful pictures - maybe that'll help.
FFS... Tell you what... Learn to read, and comprehend, and understand what people are saying. Learn to back your arguments using better "ammunition" than congratulatory posts about Anti-RMT measures, and then come back and try to debate/argue with me. With your last post, you have otherwise proven yourself not worth my time.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
No.. It's a PvE centric, cooperative MMO. It's a different game style aimed at a different crowd. It's never been a game based around wide-open hardcore PvP and SE has never touted it as such. So to compare it in any way to a MMO built around wide-open PvP, is really quite silly.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Nah.. you just dug your hole too deep. I applaud the effort, though.
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Nah.. you just dug your hole too deep. I applaud the effort, though.
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Nah.. you just dug your hole too deep. I applaud the effort, though.
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
I'm not resorting to anything, nice attempt at a flame though, just again... stating a fact. I believe I've proven quite well that you are in fact a fan boi of FFXI and SE. If anyone has any negative to say about it, you jump on them and flame them regardless if they have a valid point. Just as you did to me... my posts prove that, regardless of what you may think.
Speaking of which, you're right, what I think means nothing in this vast world of things... its their game they can do what they want. I'm not denying that one bit. However AGAIN their business tactics are "shady", the BBB reports as well as previous posts on this board and others proves that on this exact issue. Let me ask you this... if this wasn't such a "shady" tactic... how come I'm not the only one that has brought this issue up? NC Soft makes millions of dollars so of course they won't change their policy cause they have people that will continue to pay for the account content ID's. Did SOE change their policy after the SWG-NGE issue? Nope, they don't care they're still making millions. The "policy" that is such an "industry standard" is rarely enforced, I believe TSO was the only other game (and D2, that I have played) that's wiped characters as a standard practice. Fan boi, if you want to take this to PM's I'd love too since you're so heated on this topic, you getting worked up has added to my afternoon amusement to say the least. What's even more funny, is that you'll post after this too... cause you simply cannot sit there in your mothers basement and let someone have an opinion thats against FFXI and SE that you don't agree with. As it is, I leave you with this.
Square Enix has shady buisness practices. They enforce a policy that isn't client friendly. They have numerous complaints backing this up, some of which have been filed with the BBB, yet they choose not to change it. End of my story.
Now you're just provoking him. I myself don't see how it's shady. If you ran a business, and someone who isn't paying for the space they are taking up. If you let them know that , before they started taking up your space, that they could clear out that space. Anyway, if you're gonna, just take it to PM's. It's not even fun to read anymore.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
Nah.. you just dug your hole too deep. I applaud the effort, though.
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
I'm not resorting to anything, nice attempt at a flame though, just again... stating a fact. I believe I've proven quite well that you are in fact a fan boi of FFXI and SE. If anyone has any negative to say about it, you jump on them and flame them regardless if they have a valid point. Just as you did to me... my posts prove that, regardless of what you may think.
Speaking of which, you're right, what I think means nothing in this vast world of things... its their game they can do what they want. I'm not denying that one bit. However AGAIN their business tactics are "shady", the BBB reports as well as previous posts on this board and others proves that on this exact issue. Let me ask you this... if this wasn't such a "shady" tactic... how come I'm not the only one that has brought this issue up? NC Soft makes millions of dollars so of course they won't change their policy cause they have people that will continue to pay for the account content ID's. Did SOE change their policy after the SWG-NGE issue? Nope, they don't care they're still making millions. The "policy" that is such an "industry standard" is rarely enforced, I believe TSO was the only other game (and D2, that I have played) that's wiped characters as a standard practice. Fan boi, if you want to take this to PM's I'd love too since you're so heated on this topic, you getting worked up has added to my afternoon amusement to say the least. What's even more funny, is that you'll post after this too... cause you simply cannot sit there in your mothers basement and let someone have an opinion thats against FFXI and SE that you don't agree with. As it is, I leave you with this.
Square Enix has shady buisness practices. They enforce a policy that isn't client friendly. They have numerous complaints backing this up, some of which have been filed with the BBB, yet they choose not to change it. End of my story.
Edited..
Bah... forget it.. I'd written alot more, but I remembered... it all goes over your head.
Other than the "mother's basement" comment - which was really spectacularly juvenile (and wrong)... but obviously not beneath you... all I'm seeing from you is the same baseless crap.
1. They have a ToS, provided in plain English.
2. You agreed to the ToS, and all it detailed.
3. They held you to the ToS, just like they do everyone else, and now you're whining "foul".
1, 2, 3... Plain and simple. No "shady tactics". Simple common-sense.
Please let me know when you've got some real points to argue and we'll try again.
I also have no problem with people having negative opinions of FFXI or SE - I have my gripes with them as well. What I do take exception to, in this case, is people blaming SE (or any other company) for their own ignorance. You made an assumption about SE's ToS, it was wrong, and the outcome wasn't in your favor. That's not SE's fault. They did their part by making those terms available to everyone who plays the game. It's up to the players to be aware of them. Spin it, twist it and throw all the rhetoric at it you want... You still lose.
WSIMike
aka "Fanboi"
P.S. You're not getting me riled up... I'm not the one bitching about a company holding me to the ToS I agreed to. But, by all means, keep pretending you are. Your imagination is already clearly on a roll with the whole "shady practices" thing... why stop there?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
No.. It's a PvE centric, cooperative MMO. It's a different game style aimed at a different crowd. It's never been a game based around wide-open hardcore PvP and SE has never touted it as such. So to compare it in any way to a MMO built around wide-open PvP, is really quite silly.
Exactly... Sorry but I didnt mean to say it was a carebear MMO. I meant you can't say "it's not a carebear MMO like WoW" when it doesnt even have open PvP (which is why i said it's more carebear, shouldnt have said that).
Comments
As for "not hanging on every word long enough to pay attention"
Seems paying attention is exactly your problem. Perhaps you should start.
1. You wouldn't make an ass out of yourself by responding to posts that aren't quoting, responding to, nor targeted at you in any way.
2. You wouldn't be so dismayed when something you accepted by way of agreeing to a ToS, actually happens... ie. your account being lost due to extended inactivity.
By the by... Your feeble attempts at sarcasm aren't lost on me. They just suck.
Wow, I didn't know I was making an ass out of myself. Thank you Fan Boi Mikie, and for pen pointing the error in my ways. You rock!Apparently this is a problem:
www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx
n3rfed.blogs.com/n3rfed/2006/01/a_truly_final_f.html
Ahhh yes... the "fan boi" card.
I'm a "fan boi" because I believe that it's not unfair when a company holds me to a ToS I agreed to, even if I disagree with it. I suppose it's my cue now to admit defeat and cower away in a corner somewhere.
And thank you for the BBB link... Very informative.. 5 years in service.. an average of 500-600k active subscriptions for most of that time... and only 162 complaints filed against them, for all issues combined, in the past 3 years; I seriously hope you don't believe all 162 were for the same reason as you... If you do... well... can't help ya there.
Let's break those numbers down. Using the low number of 500k active subscriptions, that means 1 in every 3086 players has filed a complaint that the BBB has found legitimate over a period of 1095 days. At the high end of 600k, that's 1 in about every 3704. All in all, I'd say those are some pretty good numbers. A quick check of SOE reveals about twice that amount in the same time-frame... and apparently SOE doesn't have this horrible policy of deleting accounts or characters (even though they have a clause for such an event right in their own ToS). In other words, the numbers cited for SE aren't as "telling" as you'd like to believe.
I've had issues with the service at times too, and had lost my log-in info. A phone call to their customer service cleared it up in minutes. I lost my character of over 2 years at one point due to an error in judgement on my part. In standing with their ToS, there was nothing they could do to restore it. Did I cry and complain? Nope. I accepted that I goofed, started a new character from scratch and all is well. So... do I sympathize with people who've lost characters or accounts? Sure. Do I sympathize with people who cry and complain because SE did exactly what their own ToS said they would? Not at all. If that makes me a "fan boi" in your eyes, then I'm perfectly happy with that.
As for the blog... Umm... It's a personal blog called "n3rfed". I can point to a number of blogs whose posters agree with my point-of-view, too. Yay. It means nothing. Sorry... You should have stopped with the BBB numbers.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
No, these makes you a fan boi, hell I'm beginning to think you work there
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/127565
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/135008
Since you seem to have the inside track on numbers www.mmogdata.com/... looks to me like Blizzard has a much better rating and they have alot more subscriptions/customers www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx
However I failed to view the SOE your refering too www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx
So with that said... SE rating is horrible. I can point too many other posts where people are feeling jipped by SE so we're not going anywhere on that issue. Other then you just being the model forums poster
, you and I are stating the same thing. SE has shady business tactics. 
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
No, these makes you a fan boi, hell I'm beginning to think you work there
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/127565
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/135008
Since you seem to have the inside track on numbers www.mmogdata.com/... looks to me like Blizzard has a much better rating and they have alot more subscriptions/customers www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx
However I failed to view the SOE your refering too www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx
So with that said... SE rating is horrible. I can point too many other posts where people are feeling jipped by SE so we're not going anywhere on that issue. Other then you just being the model forums poster
, you and I are stating the same thing. SE has shady business tactics. 
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/127565
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/135008
Wow... I'm showing support for a job-well-done in a game I happen to enjoy playing. Damn, you got me.
...
Are you for real? You cite two posts where I'm speaking out positively about SE's verifiable success in fighting RMT as proof that I'm a "fanboi"? And that's supposed to insult me? Am I to conclude that you're a RMT supporter?
Seriously. You are a joke
While you're at it, Sherlock, do a little more digging and youll find that I am consistently out-spoken against RMT - in any form, in any game. So yes, I am going to post a positive commentary when a company who develops a game I have enjoyed playing for 4 years now is successful against it, bringing the in-game economy lower than it's been in over 2 years. Damn straight I am.
After seeing how many other companies do alot of talking and push alot of PR, but take no real action against RMT in their games, I am extremely happy to be paying a subscription fee to a company that isn't blowing smoke up my ass about the issue.
As for where I get my information on SOE:
http://www.sandiego.bbb.org/commonreport.html?compid=11000350
I'll even quote the relevant section for you, since you lack the attention span to read all that, I'm sure:
"The Bureau processed a total of 336 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 336 complaints closed in 36 months, 55 were closed in the last year."
You're welcome.
-sigh-
And I guess you didn't get the point of the numbers on BBB. My point is... that that is a *very* low number of complaints overall compared to the recorded number of active subscriptions over the past 3 years. I used SOE as an example that even a company that *doesn't* have an express cancellation policy has more complaints against them in the same time period, and to show that SE's stats aren't as "telling" as you frame them to be. Apparently I over-estimated your ability to put 2 and 2 together. Next time I'll present it in pre-school language with colorful pictures - maybe that'll help.
FFS... Tell you what... Learn to read, and comprehend, and understand what people are saying. Learn to back your arguments using better "ammunition" than congratulatory posts about Anti-RMT measures, and then come back and try to debate/argue with me. With your last post, you have otherwise proven yourself not worth my time.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sorry you lost my attention.
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
Nah.. you just dug your hole too deep.
I applaud the effort, though.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
No.. It's a PvE centric, cooperative MMO. It's a different game style aimed at a different crowd. It's never been a game based around wide-open hardcore PvP and SE has never touted it as such. So to compare it in any way to a MMO built around wide-open PvP, is really quite silly.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
I'm not resorting to anything, nice attempt at a flame though, just again... stating a fact. I believe I've proven quite well that you are in fact a fan boi of FFXI and SE. If anyone has any negative to say about it, you jump on them and flame them regardless if they have a valid point. Just as you did to me... my posts prove that, regardless of what you may think.Speaking of which, you're right, what I think means nothing in this vast world of things... its their game they can do what they want. I'm not denying that one bit. However AGAIN their business tactics are "shady", the BBB reports as well as previous posts on this board and others proves that on this exact issue. Let me ask you this... if this wasn't such a "shady" tactic... how come I'm not the only one that has brought this issue up? NC Soft makes millions of dollars so of course they won't change their policy cause they have people that will continue to pay for the account content ID's. Did SOE change their policy after the SWG-NGE issue? Nope, they don't care they're still making millions. The "policy" that is such an "industry standard" is rarely enforced, I believe TSO was the only other game (and D2, that I have played) that's wiped characters as a standard practice. Fan boi, if you want to take this to PM's I'd love too since you're so heated on this topic, you getting worked up has added to my afternoon amusement to say the least. What's even more funny, is that you'll post after this too... cause you simply cannot sit there in your mothers basement and let someone have an opinion thats against FFXI and SE that you don't agree with. As it is, I leave you with this.
Square Enix has shady buisness practices. They enforce a policy that isn't client friendly. They have numerous complaints backing this up, some of which have been filed with the BBB, yet they choose not to change it. End of my story.
Write their names in the death book
Now you're just provoking him. I myself don't see how it's shady. If you ran a business, and someone who isn't paying for the space they are taking up. If you let them know that , before they started taking up your space, that they could clear out that space. Anyway, if you're gonna, just take it to PM's. It's not even fun to read anymore.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
ROFL decided to change what you said? Huh... interesting.I've dug no hole buddy, I've stated my opinions. SE's tactics are shady and are not industry standard. You are a fan boi, which I've also proven and yet you still keep on... you can't reason with an idiot... they will lower you to their level then beat you with experience. Which you have done sir... you beat me with your superior forum posting experience, so no I can do nothing but change my ways and learn from the uber knowledge you've given me. Oh King of the FFXI forums
Yeah.. decided that, after your last couple posts, my first response might have gone completely over your head. I decided to be more specific. I guess it worked.
"You can't reason with an idiot..."
Oh my. Now you're resorting to over-used cliche's.
You should have stopped at your last post.
Here's what it boils down to. No more sarcasm...
You've proven nothing, except that you're having difficulty dealing with the fact that a ToS that was readily available for you to read at any time, and that you agreed to abide by, was actually applied to you and you don't like the outcome.
There were no "shady" tactics. There was no bait-and-switch. No one lied to you. No one misled you. SE told you exactly what may happen with inactive accounts after a certain amount of time via their ToS. You didn't read them, or perhaps did but didn't "believe" them, that's your problem. Not theirs.
Whether or not SE's policies are "industry standard" means nothing. What you, or I or anyone else personally thinks of them means nothing. You're not agreeing to "Industry Standard Policies", you're agreeing to SE's policies. You don't like them, you have the choice not to play. It would be no different were we talking about Sony or NC Soft or Turbine or anyone else. The ToS are there for a reason.
The fact is that there are plenty of others who have left the game for weeks, months or even years and have come back to fully intact accounts and characters proves that it's obviously not a problem for everyone who takes a break from the game. The fact that after 5 years, the policy is still in place indicates that it's not a problem enough for them to find it necessary to change it.
You accepted the terms. You were held to the terms. End of story.
So please.. just deal with it, stop trying to spin it into something it isn't, and move on.
I'm not resorting to anything, nice attempt at a flame though, just again... stating a fact. I believe I've proven quite well that you are in fact a fan boi of FFXI and SE. If anyone has any negative to say about it, you jump on them and flame them regardless if they have a valid point. Just as you did to me... my posts prove that, regardless of what you may think.Speaking of which, you're right, what I think means nothing in this vast world of things... its their game they can do what they want. I'm not denying that one bit. However AGAIN their business tactics are "shady", the BBB reports as well as previous posts on this board and others proves that on this exact issue. Let me ask you this... if this wasn't such a "shady" tactic... how come I'm not the only one that has brought this issue up? NC Soft makes millions of dollars so of course they won't change their policy cause they have people that will continue to pay for the account content ID's. Did SOE change their policy after the SWG-NGE issue? Nope, they don't care they're still making millions. The "policy" that is such an "industry standard" is rarely enforced, I believe TSO was the only other game (and D2, that I have played) that's wiped characters as a standard practice. Fan boi, if you want to take this to PM's I'd love too since you're so heated on this topic, you getting worked up has added to my afternoon amusement to say the least. What's even more funny, is that you'll post after this too... cause you simply cannot sit there in your mothers basement and let someone have an opinion thats against FFXI and SE that you don't agree with. As it is, I leave you with this.
Square Enix has shady buisness practices. They enforce a policy that isn't client friendly. They have numerous complaints backing this up, some of which have been filed with the BBB, yet they choose not to change it. End of my story.
Edited..
Bah... forget it.. I'd written alot more, but I remembered... it all goes over your head.
"Blah blah blah... shady practices... blah blah blah... fanboi... blah blah blah"
Other than the "mother's basement" comment - which was really spectacularly juvenile (and wrong)... but obviously not beneath you... all I'm seeing from you is the same baseless crap.
1. They have a ToS, provided in plain English.
2. You agreed to the ToS, and all it detailed.
3. They held you to the ToS, just like they do everyone else, and now you're whining "foul".
1, 2, 3... Plain and simple. No "shady tactics". Simple common-sense.
Please let me know when you've got some real points to argue and we'll try again.
I also have no problem with people having negative opinions of FFXI or SE - I have my gripes with them as well. What I do take exception to, in this case, is people blaming SE (or any other company) for their own ignorance. You made an assumption about SE's ToS, it was wrong, and the outcome wasn't in your favor. That's not SE's fault. They did their part by making those terms available to everyone who plays the game. It's up to the players to be aware of them. Spin it, twist it and throw all the rhetoric at it you want... You still lose.
WSIMike
aka "Fanboi"
P.S. You're not getting me riled up... I'm not the one bitching about a company holding me to the ToS I agreed to. But, by all means, keep pretending you are. Your imagination is already clearly on a roll with the whole "shady practices" thing... why stop there?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LOL... Of course it's a carebear MMO even more than WoW. First of all there is no open PvP anywhere. If you want to PvP you have to go talk to some NPC and SIGN UP for ballista. After signing up you have to be there at a certain time (unless they changed this since i played). So saying its not a carebear game like wow is absurd.
FFXI is a good game if you don't mind waiting around for a group all the time. It's definitely a not button masher. The problem I had with the combat system was (for melee) you had to stand there on auto attack and wait for your TP to go up. Only then could you use your weapon skills (special attacks... forgot what they were called). What made combat cool was the Skill Chains. These are attacks you have to do in a certain order with each member of the party to do more damage.
Yes FFXI is slow and there is no soloing unless you are a beastmaster. That said, it's a good game. Theres a bunch of stuff to do and you can switch your class on the same character. Honestly though, I prefer WoW over FFXI. That's just my opinion and FFXI is still my 2nd favorite MMO I have played. If you don't mind waiting for groups or rolling a needed class then definitely check this game out.
Wow, ffxi is an carebear mmo. What are you smoking?
No.. It's a PvE centric, cooperative MMO. It's a different game style aimed at a different crowd. It's never been a game based around wide-open hardcore PvP and SE has never touted it as such. So to compare it in any way to a MMO built around wide-open PvP, is really quite silly.
Exactly... Sorry but I didnt mean to say it was a carebear MMO. I meant you can't say "it's not a carebear MMO like WoW" when it doesnt even have open PvP (which is why i said it's more carebear, shouldnt have said that).