what are you dumb? The reason people stopped playing everquest is the same reason people stopped playing asheron's call and DAOC. The games got old and new games came out, thats how the mmorpg world works, not because their was somthing wrong with the game or how it played, just new games came out and alot of people like playing the new games.
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Come on people, Everquest is around 8(?) years old now. It was, and still is a great game, but people are going to get bored with it. 50 years ago, people loved Elvis. He was, and still would be a great performer, but the fact is, people's interest fades in and out with time. Even if he did live forever, people would have gotten tired of him.
Try and think of anything that has been around for 8 years and is still as popular as it was at its peak. You're not going to find much. You need to accept that nothing lasts forever, and don't waste time pointing fingers.
"......I was actually somewhat surprised, pleasantly, that they still have over 100k in the playerbase. I thought it would have dwindled a bit more......"
Woot!...i remember the day the announcement came over the Server(s)-Wide Message system. "Gratz! we have 100k players ongame at this moment!"
mind you..,.not 100k subs...100k playing at the same time. this was back when the Internet population (imo) was low and comps sucked hard.....most had dial-up and/or never even knew what EQ and Mmorpg was. If that moment in time existed right this very minute...we would be seeing "Grats! we have 500k players ongame at this moment!"
anyway...it was nice to see those numbers way back then....and heck that was ye-e-e-ars after I had left and came back a few times. I started on Lanys Tvyl the day it opened. got to 50th on my bard soon after a player named Chodeus which i beleived made 50 first on that server.
Grouping was a blast in eq1, raiding was a blast, soloing was a blast.......crafting - i didnt like. failed combines=blah...but there were people ongame that ONLY did crafting for the most part...more power to them if they found enjoyment in it.
I also loved the idea of being able to loose everything you worked for in a flash!.....Not from bugs of course..(hehe, remember zoning into Karnors or DreadLands and getting the message.."you have fallen and take 10,000damage!)....but from other players(pvp servers) and falling into pittraps surrounded by a room of high high levels mobs.
Getting your corpse back was like a real rescue effort...a quest, if you will. Running out to the DE city to get someone to go in to buy you a coffin (b/c your KOS!) for a nec to summon you. or - finding a higher group of players to get in...and rogue it out.
I miss it.
i miss my friends in Misguided Fools,Sigil,Conquest,Riders of the Apocolypse,Spirit of Norrath..and many other guilds I have looooong forgotten.
imo 1996-2005 was the best years for mmorpgs.
now..its just all fluff. even if they are calling it content..its not.
EQ1 is one of the few few mmorpgs that has what can truely be referred to as content. almost 100% of the rest of the games......are reminiscent of playing in a playground the size of Faydwer.
For those that dont know the scope and size of eq1....Faydwer is 1 island...about the size of Original DAOC entire world. and just Faywder alone offered 5x the amount of questing as the entire world of Daoc and many others to date!
And btw...i agreed with a previous poster about ...raiding did not ruin the game..the player base did. that is SO frikken true. its the players that will end up perverting a game...period. look what happened with Daoc. total perversion.
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
I'm sorry, but I very much doubt even 5% of a playerbase for any mmorpg is going to be a lifer (maybe quick games like solitare, that you can pick up and drop like nothing). No matter how good it is, the interface, graphics and general gameplay will get old... and you'll always have the newer games calling you. You just typically spend a lot of time playing an mmo, so burn out's are all but certian.
what are you dumb? The reason people stopped playing everquest is the same reason people stopped playing asheron's call and DAOC. The games got old and new games came out, thats how the mmorpg world works, not because their was somthing wrong with the game or how it played, just new games came out and alot of people like playing the new games.
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
Not at all. Baseball, chess, and hockey aren't games reliant on technology. MMORPGs are reliant on the technological capabilities of their time and evolve alongside advances in the computer industry. You're comparing apples and oranges. To say EQ "fell" would be like saying records, cassettes, and videotapes "fell." Things simply advance. Newer, more player friendly games are released each year. Eight years down the line, the same will be be said for EQ2, WoW, or whatever tomorrow's heavy hitter is.
what are you dumb? The reason people stopped playing everquest is the same reason people stopped playing asheron's call and DAOC. The games got old and new games came out, thats how the mmorpg world works, not because their was somthing wrong with the game or how it played, just new games came out and alot of people like playing the new games.
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
You cannot reasonably compare sports and traditional board games to Everquest. No one plays little league Everquest, no one watches Everquest on T.V., and I'm pretty sure the number of chess clubs far outnumber the number of EQ clubs. Those things are built into our culture, that is why they stay around.
Look at Mario, Pac-Man, Tetris, Frogger, and loads of other classics. They got old, newer and better things came out, and they eventually faded out. Video games, music, fashion, all of these things are ephemeral, they don't last, and they are not meant to.
You are right, MMORPGs should evolve, but not a single game, but MMORPGs as an entire genre. Everquest is like the Mickey Mantle of Baseball. He was great, but he got old, and couldn't keep up. Baseball is still alive, but the players will come and go.
I believe EQ started its downward spiral when raiding became the main focus of the game. IMO, it has very little to do with harsh xp penalties.
Once getting a group together started taking in excess of 1.5 hrs the game quickly started dying. In EQ you can't really do anything that is not combat oriented. Having the non-raid mobs balanced toward raid gear was a huge mistake, and one they still continue.
Yes, EQ pre-PoP was the best game I've ever played. However, the game today flat out sucks, because if you're not raid equipped you can't even enjoy most of the "new" content.
That is exactly why I quit EQ.. it took over an hour to get enough people to actually do something... I quit right before PoP released also.
I also felt that there was not enough loot per kill to satisfy the 40 people that had to be there. The Faction game really turned me off also... I like killing everything.
Killing the Dwarf King guy, and the huge giant that spawned the god... those were my favorite parts.. besides killing Vox and Nagafen before ANY expansions were released!
EQ is dead to me now... I would never play it again.
Funny, the faction game is one of the biggest things I miss from current MMOs. As I've said before, I've tried just about every MMO to date, and each one just seems to fail harder than the last in their attempts to make a super simple but very shiny game that everyone and their 90yr old grandmother will blow money on.
Great game don't agree with the OPs' oppinion here , out of all the released MMORPGs the ones that have held my attention for the longest are :- AC,UO and EQ . As for the newer MMORPGs as far as gameplay complexity and out and out challenge they don't even compare sad but true.
Newer MMORPGs really are for the masses and have subsequently been dumbed down to the point where the lunatics can all play together.
I just hope for an Indie company who has a few values to save us all... Roll on HJ
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Great game don't agree with the OPs' oppinion here , out of all the released MMORPGs the ones that have held my attention for the longest are :- AC,UO and EQ . As for the newer MMORPGs as far as gameplay complexity and out and out challenge they don't even compare sad but true. Newer MMORPGs really are for the masses and have subsequently been dumbed down to the point where the lunatics can all play together. I just hope for an Indie company who has a few values to save us all... Roll on HJ
I think I would need to agree with this entirely. I used to spent months/years in UO/EQ/AC etc. The newer games can't hold my attention for longer than a few weeks to a handful of months now usually. I don't like dumbed down games, at all. Unfortunately the "simple is better" method has been taken to attract as many people as possible. It's business, good for them, but it sucks for those who actually want a bit more complexity to the game.
raiding killed everquest. POP and Furor killed everquest.
I agree that the devs put too much into raiding and that ultimately drove off most of their playerbase.
I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
I played EQ1 since 2000 and have seen the evolution. The biggest problems are thus...
Economy is extremely out of whack - top level raid gear from older expansions are sold for a few plat on a farmer's paradise bazaar system. If your not using gear far above spec you cannot tank mobs, period! Too many expansions too fast, ruined the economy, with each expansion another mechanic is broken Top heavy raid game with very little ability for new players to group, especially 10-50 level's The wonder and awe of a MMORPG is gone Old city zones are empty and the simplicity formula that hooked most of us have been gone for years Storyline has gone loony
This is only to name a few. WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc all are competition. EQ1 needs to CLOSE DOWN, leave a classic server (original, kunark and velious) as a memorial to the game, and make a new EQ.
Short of a new game from scratch, there is nothing that can help EQ1 be great again.
They tried that, and called it EQ2 and screwed the pooch on that too.. SOE keeps trying to ride the coat tails of EQ. but people are just getting tired of that.. I know I did..
Originally posted by Chieftan I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
1. The Ruins of Kunark (March 2000) 2. The Scars of Velious (December 2000) 3. The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001) 4. The Planes of Power (October 2002) 5. The Legacy of Ykesha (February 2003) 6. Lost Dungeons of Norrath (September 2003) 7. Gates of Discord (February 2004) 8. Omens of War (September 2004) 9. Dragons of Norrath (February 2005) 10. Depths of Darkhollow (September 2005) 11. Prophecy of Ro (February 2006) 12. The Serpent's Spine (September 2006) 13. The Buried Sea (February 2007) 14. Secrets of Faydwer(Announced)
I joined my current guild somewhen during Velious expansion. At that time the guild was doing Temple of Veshan and the Planes (Fear, Hate, Sky). We would meet at the bank in Thurgaden and either get druid ports to somewhere and run or wizard ports.
Every player was required to have their own invis, EB, Speed and gate item/ability - Thurg gate potion, OT Hammer, something.
The world was not to big, it was just right. Travel was dangerous enough over those stretches to make even getting somewhere safely, entertaining.
With the release of SoL, the only real change in our gatherings, we now met in the nexus.
Planes of Power, with the portal books. Was the first real blow to dimensions of the world. With the advent of the portal books, newbs could now leave their starting areas, safely and travel to easier starting areas.
This also introduced the raid flag per player reguirement.
It was, in my opinion, these two modifications to the game, that started the slide into mediocrity, for Everquest.
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
You cannot reasonably compare sports and traditional board games to Everquest. No one plays little league Everquest, no one watches Everquest on T.V., and I'm pretty sure the number of chess clubs far outnumber the number of EQ clubs. Those things are built into our culture, that is why they stay around. Look at Mario, Pac-Man, Tetris, Frogger, and loads of other classics. They got old, newer and better things came out, and they eventually faded out. Video games, music, fashion, all of these things are ephemeral, they don't last, and they are not meant to. You are right, MMORPGs should evolve, but not a single game, but MMORPGs as an entire genre. Everquest is like the Mickey Mantle of Baseball. He was great, but he got old, and couldn't keep up. Baseball is still alive, but the players will come and go.
All the classics games you bring are single players or very limited hot-seat lan style, they can't be compared to a SOCIAL setting such as EQ. I am sure that if EQ would have been done right, it would have more players now then ever, despite low graphics...after all, WoW comes with lowly graphics, didn't it? WoW IS EQ! The players just move, they transfer...and WoW did the same raiding mistake, so the players will quit again, because of raiding.
You just have to get the players motivated, thrilled, wanting to play more. Raiding removes that. Where once the players where thrilled and wanting more, you put a new ugly thing in their face. They went from loooving the game, to liking the game, to accepting the game, to enduring the game, to suffering in the game to eventually quit. This is what raiding does.
Like Baseball, a fan would remains a fan if the game is still around and progressing. Raiding removes that. Been a baseball fan have little requirements, you need a TV and to actually like that (Been a Baseball fan alone at home is about as social as been playing EQ, but you are receiving only, not giving anything out unless other fans are around, so EQ is better on this aspect). Been an EQ fan requires a computer (old one), and to actually enjoy that...raiding removes the enjoyment part in a dot-way.
PS: All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they where, just in another game, mostly because the original fails them. I tried and love CoV because EQ fails me (Most are supposedly in WoW now), not because I was that curious about trying another MMO, heck, I don't have time to play 2 MMOs at once, so the first one must fails me if I am to try another...and EQ just did that, it fails me, as a grouper.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You cannot reasonably compare sports and traditional board games to Everquest. No one plays little league Everquest, no one watches Everquest on T.V., and I'm pretty sure the number of chess clubs far outnumber the number of EQ clubs. Those things are built into our culture, that is why they stay around. Look at Mario, Pac-Man, Tetris, Frogger, and loads of other classics. They got old, newer and better things came out, and they eventually faded out. Video games, music, fashion, all of these things are ephemeral, they don't last, and they are not meant to. You are right, MMORPGs should evolve, but not a single game, but MMORPGs as an entire genre. Everquest is like the Mickey Mantle of Baseball. He was great, but he got old, and couldn't keep up. Baseball is still alive, but the players will come and go.
All the classics games you bring are single players or very limited hot-seat lan style, they can't be compared to a SOCIAL setting such as EQ. I am sure that if EQ would have been done right, it would have more players now then ever, despite low graphics...after all, WoW comes with lowly graphics, didn't it? WoW IS EQ! The players just move, they transfer...and WoW did the same raiding mistake, so the players will quit again, because of raiding.
You just have to get the players motivated, thrilled, wanting to play more. Raiding removes that. Where once the players where thrilled and wanting more, you put a new ugly thing in their face. They went from loooving the game, to liking the game, to accepting the game, to enduring the game, to suffering in the game to eventually quit. This is what raiding does.
Like Baseball, a fan would remains a fan if the game is still around and progressing. Raiding removes that. Been a baseball fan have little requirements, you need a TV and to actually like that (Been a Baseball fan alone at home is about as social as been playing EQ, but you are receiving only, not giving anything out unless other fans are around, so EQ is better on this aspect). Been an EQ fan requires a computer (old one), and to actually enjoy that...raiding removes the enjoyment part in a dot-way.
PS: All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they where, just in another game, mostly because the original fails them. I tried and love CoV because EQ fails me (Most are supposedly in WoW now), not because I was that curious about trying another MMO, heck, I don't have time to play 2 MMOs at once, so the first one must fails me if I am to try another...and EQ just did that, it fails me, as a grouper.
"All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they were, just in another game"
Exactly, they are doing the same things, in a newer game. I won't say that the newer games are better, because honestly I think EQ was the best MMORPG I have ever played. I will say this, first off, MMOs are gaining popularity, and more and more people are joining. It is no longer the community full of hardcore gamers that is once was. The times have changed and they have to cater to a new gamer that wants everything dumbed down and shiny. When the masses start flocking towards that new shiny MMO and few stay to play the real game, eventually everyone will give up, and hop on the bandwagon. We all saw this happen with WoW. Second, there is only so much you can do before people are going to get bored with a game. You can only add so many more races, quests, items and features. EVERYTHING goes away in time. Baseball will, chess will, hockey will, everquest will.
I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
1. The Ruins of Kunark (March 2000)
2. The Scars of Velious (December 2000)
3. The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001)
4. The Planes of Power (October 2002)
5. The Legacy of Ykesha (February 2003)
6. Lost Dungeons of Norrath (September 2003)
7. Gates of Discord (February 2004)
8. Omens of War (September 2004)
9. Dragons of Norrath (February 2005)
10. Depths of Darkhollow (September 2005)
11. Prophecy of Ro (February 2006)
12. The Serpent's Spine (September 2006)
13. The Buried Sea (February 2007)
14. Secrets of Faydwer(Announced)
I joined my current guild somewhen during Velious expansion. At that time the guild was doing Temple of Veshan and the Planes (Fear, Hate, Sky). We would meet at the bank in Thurgaden and either get druid ports to somewhere and run or wizard ports.
Every player was required to have their own invis, EB, Speed and gate item/ability - Thurg gate potion, OT Hammer, something.
The world was not to big, it was just right. Travel was dangerous enough over those stretches to make even getting somewhere safely, entertaining.
With the release of SoL, the only real change in our gatherings, we now met in the nexus.
Planes of Power, with the portal books. Was the first real blow to dimensions of the world. With the advent of the portal books, newbs could now leave their starting areas, safely and travel to easier starting areas.
This also introduced the raid flag per player reguirement.
It was, in my opinion, these two modifications to the game, that started the slide into mediocrity, for Everquest.
I'm sorry, but I find it to be quite to opposite. The one thing I absolutely hated in that game and what made me quit several times was the stupidly long travel times. Maybe you had fun running around with your speed enhancers and potions and shit, but not everyone had those. Some of us had to hoof it across 20+ zones to get where we needed to be, and if we died half way, tack on another 10. Travel was a bitch, and by the time expansions reached that point the books were needed. You couldn't even think about the game without the travel books with the amount of real estate we're looking at now. I've played off and on from release to SoL and just returned recently and I can say the books are the best damn thing to have changed since i left.
Can't say anything for the raid flag system, haven't encountered it yet. I've never been a fan of any of that flagging BS though.
raiding killed everquest. POP and Furor killed everquest.
I agree that the devs put too much into raiding and that ultimately drove off most of their playerbase.
I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
I think that is what pilto is trying to say. PoP drove people off (after the magic of the expansion wore off) because it really forced the masses to raid more frequently. People like myself left the game because we can't raid four nights/week. I came back, but many haven't.
Originally posted by Kordesh Maybe you had fun running around with your speed enhancers and potions and shit, but not everyone had those.
You know, I didn't start at level 65 with potions and clickies. I didn't buy my character on eBay. I'm not a social giant.
In fact, I started playing with the release of Kunark. I wasn't in a guild until sometime after the release of Velious.
I had to do those same CR's you speak of. I had to level, just like everyone else. I had to find my own clickies. POTIONS?! It was a friggin quest! Anyone could do it! The thurgadin gate potion was a subset of the shawl quest.
Some of us had to hoof it across 20+ zones to get where we needed to be, and if we died half way, tack on another 10.
At a guess, EQ released with 78 zones. Kunark added 27 and Velious added another 19.
If you had to travel more than 10 zones to find an adventure, I don't think it was the size of the world. Thats appx 124 zones. Of which appx 3 each would have been town zones (Qeynos, Neriak, Freeport, High Hold Keep, Erudine, Felwithe, Kelethin, Ak'Anon, Grobb, Ogguk, Kaladim, Rivervale, Fironia Vie, Cabilis, Thurgadin, Skyshrine, Kael). During this point in history, Wizards and Druids were available for ports. That leaves appx 73 zones without bind points - which would have been fairly evenly spread out across the entire game, broken up by town zones.
Qeynos to Freeport: 7 zones apart Faydwer: 12 zones (of which 4 are towns) Kunark: 28 zones (of which 5 are towns) Velious: 19 zones (of which 4 could be towns) Thurgadin bank to NToV: 9 zones (if you have to run it) Anywhere in game to Plane of Hate/Sky: 1 (but we always ported from South Ro - add 5 to Thurg) Thurgadin bank to Plane of Fear: 8 (if you have to run it)
Also, many zones were to high level or low level (depending on the player) to count.
(all zone counts are appx because I can't find my original boxes and I'm not really interested in searching the web for an exact count - when an appx will do)
I accept your opinion, you feel the world was to large. IMO, the world was an excellent size, just my play style or something.
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
I have to comment on this and take it how you want.
Ive played EQ for 8 years, been in a raiding guild for 6.
BUT the c omment that if your not in a raiding guild you cant do anything isnt true at all. With each new expansion SOE is fixing this. Even with the last one TBS, the gear you get from doing missions and quest is equivlent to the OOW//DOD Expansions. A person geared from the TBS group missions can do all the stuff anyone can who is geared from DOD/DON/POR/TSS.
2 expansions ago I would of agreed with the person who said non raiding characters cant do anything with new content, but SOE has been fixing this problem with each new expansion. IN the upcoming expansion There will be gear that is even better for people who ONLY Group and not raid. Obviously raiding gear is the focus and its better, but to say you cant be geared good if you dont raid is just wrong.
I have a friend who has a warrior in the top 50 of drinal and he has never been in a raiding guild. Theres open Raids for higher end zones now days and loot is random based in these raids. You can do stuff without joininig a raiding guild and its fun stuff. I love this game wont ever leave
I have to comment on this and take it how you want.
Ive played EQ for 8 years, been in a raiding guild for 6. BUT the c omment that if your not in a raiding guild you cant do anything isnt true at all. With each new expansion SOE is fixing this. Even with the last one TBS, the gear you get from doing missions and quest is equivlent to the OOW//DOD Expansions. A person geared from the TBS group missions can do all the stuff anyone can who is geared from DOD/DON/POR/TSS.
2 expansions ago I would of agreed with the person who said non raiding characters cant do anything with new content, but SOE has been fixing this problem with each new expansion. IN the upcoming expansion There will be gear that is even better for people who ONLY Group and not raid. Obviously raiding gear is the focus and its better, but to say you cant be geared good if you dont raid is just wrong. I have a friend who has a warrior in the top 50 of drinal and he has never been in a raiding guild. Theres open Raids for higher end zones now days and loot is random based in these raids. You can do stuff without joininig a raiding guild and its fun stuff. I love this game wont ever leave
Too little too late.
As long as a raider is better at grouping then a grouper (with similar time investment), the game is wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Come on people, Everquest is around 8(?) years old now. It was, and still is a great game, but people are going to get bored with it. 50 years ago, people loved Elvis. He was, and still would be a great performer, but the fact is, people's interest fades in and out with time. Even if he did live forever, people would have gotten tired of him.
Try and think of anything that has been around for 8 years and is still as popular as it was at its peak. You're not going to find much. You need to accept that nothing lasts forever, and don't waste time pointing fingers.
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I'm sorry, but I very much doubt even 5% of a playerbase for any mmorpg is going to be a lifer (maybe quick games like solitare, that you can pick up and drop like nothing). No matter how good it is, the interface, graphics and general gameplay will get old... and you'll always have the newer games calling you. You just typically spend a lot of time playing an mmo, so burn out's are all but certian.
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
Not at all. Baseball, chess, and hockey aren't games reliant on technology. MMORPGs are reliant on the technological capabilities of their time and evolve alongside advances in the computer industry. You're comparing apples and oranges. To say EQ "fell" would be like saying records, cassettes, and videotapes "fell." Things simply advance. Newer, more player friendly games are released each year. Eight years down the line, the same will be be said for EQ2, WoW, or whatever tomorrow's heavy hitter is.^^here here
/raises a mug!
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<insert random game here>
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<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
As far as I can tell...
Baseball isn't dead.
Chess isn't dead.
Hockey isn't dead.
I fail to grasp your logic. We are talking about TEAM games. There are no valid reasons to accept that a game crumbles as EQ did. We are not talking about a single RPG with nothing new to do, we are talking of a game centered on players with ever evolving content. It should progress over time, not regress. Once you read a book, it is over, same goes for usual RPGs. But for a MMORPG, it is LIVE, evolving...once you are addicted, you should be for life unless something wrong happen in that game...
You cannot reasonably compare sports and traditional board games to Everquest. No one plays little league Everquest, no one watches Everquest on T.V., and I'm pretty sure the number of chess clubs far outnumber the number of EQ clubs. Those things are built into our culture, that is why they stay around.
Look at Mario, Pac-Man, Tetris, Frogger, and loads of other classics. They got old, newer and better things came out, and they eventually faded out. Video games, music, fashion, all of these things are ephemeral, they don't last, and they are not meant to.
You are right, MMORPGs should evolve, but not a single game, but MMORPGs as an entire genre. Everquest is like the Mickey Mantle of Baseball. He was great, but he got old, and couldn't keep up. Baseball is still alive, but the players will come and go.
That is exactly why I quit EQ.. it took over an hour to get enough people to actually do something... I quit right before PoP released also.
I also felt that there was not enough loot per kill to satisfy the 40 people that had to be there. The Faction game really turned me off also... I like killing everything.
Killing the Dwarf King guy, and the huge giant that spawned the god... those were my favorite parts.. besides killing Vox and Nagafen before ANY expansions were released!
EQ is dead to me now... I would never play it again.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Great game don't agree with the OPs' oppinion here , out of all the released MMORPGs the ones that have held my attention for the longest are :- AC,UO and EQ . As for the newer MMORPGs as far as gameplay complexity and out and out challenge they don't even compare sad but true.
Newer MMORPGs really are for the masses and have subsequently been dumbed down to the point where the lunatics can all play together.
I just hope for an Indie company who has a few values to save us all... Roll on HJ
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
2. The Scars of Velious (December 2000)
3. The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001)
4. The Planes of Power (October 2002)
5. The Legacy of Ykesha (February 2003)
6. Lost Dungeons of Norrath (September 2003)
7. Gates of Discord (February 2004)
8. Omens of War (September 2004)
9. Dragons of Norrath (February 2005)
10. Depths of Darkhollow (September 2005)
11. Prophecy of Ro (February 2006)
12. The Serpent's Spine (September 2006)
13. The Buried Sea (February 2007)
14. Secrets of Faydwer(Announced)
I joined my current guild somewhen during Velious expansion. At that time the guild was doing Temple of Veshan and the Planes (Fear, Hate, Sky). We would meet at the bank in Thurgaden and either get druid ports to somewhere and run or wizard ports.
Every player was required to have their own invis, EB, Speed and gate item/ability - Thurg gate potion, OT Hammer, something.
The world was not to big, it was just right. Travel was dangerous enough over those stretches to make even getting somewhere safely, entertaining.
With the release of SoL, the only real change in our gatherings, we now met in the nexus.
Planes of Power, with the portal books. Was the first real blow to dimensions of the world. With the advent of the portal books, newbs could now leave their starting areas, safely and travel to easier starting areas.
This also introduced the raid flag per player reguirement.
It was, in my opinion, these two modifications to the game, that started the slide into mediocrity, for Everquest.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
All the classics games you bring are single players or very limited hot-seat lan style, they can't be compared to a SOCIAL setting such as EQ. I am sure that if EQ would have been done right, it would have more players now then ever, despite low graphics...after all, WoW comes with lowly graphics, didn't it? WoW IS EQ! The players just move, they transfer...and WoW did the same raiding mistake, so the players will quit again, because of raiding.
You just have to get the players motivated, thrilled, wanting to play more. Raiding removes that. Where once the players where thrilled and wanting more, you put a new ugly thing in their face. They went from loooving the game, to liking the game, to accepting the game, to enduring the game, to suffering in the game to eventually quit. This is what raiding does.
Like Baseball, a fan would remains a fan if the game is still around and progressing. Raiding removes that. Been a baseball fan have little requirements, you need a TV and to actually like that (Been a Baseball fan alone at home is about as social as been playing EQ, but you are receiving only, not giving anything out unless other fans are around, so EQ is better on this aspect). Been an EQ fan requires a computer (old one), and to actually enjoy that...raiding removes the enjoyment part in a dot-way.
PS: All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they where, just in another game, mostly because the original fails them. I tried and love CoV because EQ fails me (Most are supposedly in WoW now), not because I was that curious about trying another MMO, heck, I don't have time to play 2 MMOs at once, so the first one must fails me if I am to try another...and EQ just did that, it fails me, as a grouper.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
All the classics games you bring are single players or very limited hot-seat lan style, they can't be compared to a SOCIAL setting such as EQ. I am sure that if EQ would have been done right, it would have more players now then ever, despite low graphics...after all, WoW comes with lowly graphics, didn't it? WoW IS EQ! The players just move, they transfer...and WoW did the same raiding mistake, so the players will quit again, because of raiding.
You just have to get the players motivated, thrilled, wanting to play more. Raiding removes that. Where once the players where thrilled and wanting more, you put a new ugly thing in their face. They went from loooving the game, to liking the game, to accepting the game, to enduring the game, to suffering in the game to eventually quit. This is what raiding does.
Like Baseball, a fan would remains a fan if the game is still around and progressing. Raiding removes that. Been a baseball fan have little requirements, you need a TV and to actually like that (Been a Baseball fan alone at home is about as social as been playing EQ, but you are receiving only, not giving anything out unless other fans are around, so EQ is better on this aspect). Been an EQ fan requires a computer (old one), and to actually enjoy that...raiding removes the enjoyment part in a dot-way.
PS: All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they where, just in another game, mostly because the original fails them. I tried and love CoV because EQ fails me (Most are supposedly in WoW now), not because I was that curious about trying another MMO, heck, I don't have time to play 2 MMOs at once, so the first one must fails me if I am to try another...and EQ just did that, it fails me, as a grouper.
"All the EQ fans are still doing exactly what they were, just in another game"
Exactly, they are doing the same things, in a newer game. I won't say that the newer games are better, because honestly I think EQ was the best MMORPG I have ever played. I will say this, first off, MMOs are gaining popularity, and more and more people are joining. It is no longer the community full of hardcore gamers that is once was. The times have changed and they have to cater to a new gamer that wants everything dumbed down and shiny. When the masses start flocking towards that new shiny MMO and few stay to play the real game, eventually everyone will give up, and hop on the bandwagon. We all saw this happen with WoW. Second, there is only so much you can do before people are going to get bored with a game. You can only add so many more races, quests, items and features. EVERYTHING goes away in time. Baseball will, chess will, hockey will, everquest will.
2. The Scars of Velious (December 2000)
3. The Shadows of Luclin (December 2001)
4. The Planes of Power (October 2002)
5. The Legacy of Ykesha (February 2003)
6. Lost Dungeons of Norrath (September 2003)
7. Gates of Discord (February 2004)
8. Omens of War (September 2004)
9. Dragons of Norrath (February 2005)
10. Depths of Darkhollow (September 2005)
11. Prophecy of Ro (February 2006)
12. The Serpent's Spine (September 2006)
13. The Buried Sea (February 2007)
14. Secrets of Faydwer(Announced)
I joined my current guild somewhen during Velious expansion. At that time the guild was doing Temple of Veshan and the Planes (Fear, Hate, Sky). We would meet at the bank in Thurgaden and either get druid ports to somewhere and run or wizard ports.
Every player was required to have their own invis, EB, Speed and gate item/ability - Thurg gate potion, OT Hammer, something.
The world was not to big, it was just right. Travel was dangerous enough over those stretches to make even getting somewhere safely, entertaining.
With the release of SoL, the only real change in our gatherings, we now met in the nexus.
Planes of Power, with the portal books. Was the first real blow to dimensions of the world. With the advent of the portal books, newbs could now leave their starting areas, safely and travel to easier starting areas.
This also introduced the raid flag per player reguirement.
It was, in my opinion, these two modifications to the game, that started the slide into mediocrity, for Everquest.
I'm sorry, but I find it to be quite to opposite. The one thing I absolutely hated in that game and what made me quit several times was the stupidly long travel times. Maybe you had fun running around with your speed enhancers and potions and shit, but not everyone had those. Some of us had to hoof it across 20+ zones to get where we needed to be, and if we died half way, tack on another 10. Travel was a bitch, and by the time expansions reached that point the books were needed. You couldn't even think about the game without the travel books with the amount of real estate we're looking at now. I've played off and on from release to SoL and just returned recently and I can say the books are the best damn thing to have changed since i left.Can't say anything for the raid flag system, haven't encountered it yet. I've never been a fan of any of that flagging BS though.
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EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
I don't agree on PoP though. At that point in the game there was just too much real estate and travel times were ridiculous. They had to do something to get people around faster and have one place to act as a hub. I didn't like the implementation(books????) but they had the right idea.
I think that is what pilto is trying to say. PoP drove people off (after the magic of the expansion wore off) because it really forced the masses to raid more frequently. People like myself left the game because we can't raid four nights/week. I came back, but many haven't.
In fact, I started playing with the release of Kunark. I wasn't in a guild until sometime after the release of Velious.
I had to do those same CR's you speak of. I had to level, just like everyone else. I had to find my own clickies. POTIONS?! It was a friggin quest! Anyone could do it! The thurgadin gate potion was a subset of the shawl quest.
At a guess, EQ released with 78 zones. Kunark added 27 and Velious added another 19.If you had to travel more than 10 zones to find an adventure, I don't think it was the size of the world. Thats appx 124 zones. Of which appx 3 each would have been town zones (Qeynos, Neriak, Freeport, High Hold Keep, Erudine, Felwithe, Kelethin, Ak'Anon, Grobb, Ogguk, Kaladim, Rivervale, Fironia Vie, Cabilis, Thurgadin, Skyshrine, Kael). During this point in history, Wizards and Druids were available for ports. That leaves appx 73 zones without bind points - which would have been fairly evenly spread out across the entire game, broken up by town zones.
Qeynos to Freeport: 7 zones apart
Faydwer: 12 zones (of which 4 are towns)
Kunark: 28 zones (of which 5 are towns)
Velious: 19 zones (of which 4 could be towns)
Thurgadin bank to NToV: 9 zones (if you have to run it)
Anywhere in game to Plane of Hate/Sky: 1 (but we always ported from South Ro - add 5 to Thurg)
Thurgadin bank to Plane of Fear: 8 (if you have to run it)
Also, many zones were to high level or low level (depending on the player) to count.
(all zone counts are appx because I can't find my original boxes and I'm not really interested in searching the web for an exact count - when an appx will do)
I accept your opinion, you feel the world was to large. IMO, the world was an excellent size, just my play style or something.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
EQ never really took off for several reason...
-Flawed Gameplay
-Crappy Graphics
-Large time investment
-Exploits
-Raiding direction
-And un inspired game art....
I have to comment on this and take it how you want.
Ive played EQ for 8 years, been in a raiding guild for 6.
BUT the c omment that if your not in a raiding guild you cant do anything isnt true at all. With each new expansion SOE is fixing this. Even with the last one TBS, the gear you get from doing missions and quest is equivlent to the OOW//DOD Expansions. A person geared from the TBS group missions can do all the stuff anyone can who is geared from DOD/DON/POR/TSS.
2 expansions ago I would of agreed with the person who said non raiding characters cant do anything with new content, but SOE has been fixing this problem with each new expansion. IN the upcoming expansion There will be gear that is even better for people who ONLY Group and not raid. Obviously raiding gear is the focus and its better, but to say you cant be geared good if you dont raid is just wrong.
I have a friend who has a warrior in the top 50 of drinal and he has never been in a raiding guild. Theres open Raids for higher end zones now days and loot is random based in these raids. You can do stuff without joininig a raiding guild and its fun stuff. I love this game wont ever leave
Too little too late.
As long as a raider is better at grouping then a grouper (with similar time investment), the game is wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren