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CoH or CoKS?
n2sooners
Member UncommonPosts: 926
I am really enjoying CoH, but the rampant kill stealing is a real downer. I have played nearly a dozen different MMORPGs over the past five years, and I have to say I have been KSd more in the past few weeks of CoH than all the other games combined. On top of that, the devs seem to be refusing to take a solid stance on KSing. They have admitted it exists and that it is a problem when they changed how kills are counted on kill missions, but that actually seems to have made things worse. It is almost as if they are saying it is just fine to KS (and maybe they think it is, but no one knows for sure since they won't come out and say it).
Oh well, I really like the game, but if the KSing is allowed to continue, I am afraid this will turn into City of Griefing. I was hoping this game would hold me over until WoW or EQ2 or, if I continued to enjoy it, until Vanguard. But at the rate things are going now, I may cancel until the devs get their crap together.
Comments
I havent had a Kill Stealing problem at all. I know the problem is out there concerning kill stealing so I do believe you.
Have you tried fighting in the zones with the least amount of people? If you're in atlas park or Galaxy I can probably see Kill Stealing happening as many of them are low level new people.
In Steel Canyon, Boomtown, Faultline on up, Killstealing is virtually unheard of
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Yeah, with the first couple days after release kill stealing was a problem in Galaxy City and Atlas, but now all you need to do is get out of those zones and you won't have any problems. GC and Atlas don't have many exciting things to do there anyways.
Sometimes it's really frustrating.
I really think that a lot of people have diffrent views on what "kill stealing" is. I, when am killing outdoors and alone, which is almost never, almost never get kill stolen. I generally help people who are in trouble - if I'm on my healer this is easy because I can heal you. This helps you win a losing battle AND avoids all accusitions of KSing. it's a win-win scenario. On my blaster though, I allways ask if people want help before I assist them. Regardless, I have gotten many more thank-yous for assisting people with heals and the like in CoH then most any other game, and I rather enjoy the community (though not as much as AO's, which was fantastic).
Regardless, if you are going to quit an MMO over "being kill stealed too much" you either need to get over it, play indoor missions, or perhaps adjust your meaning of killstealing. I was in the beta and never viewed it as much of a problem.
My idea of KSing is when you have a group engaged, have been fighting them for a bit, then someone comes up, sees you there, and starts their risk free experience leaching anyway. This isn't a problem with all my characters, it is mostly a problem with my tankers (who wouldn't love having a free meat shield), and my controllers (only thing better than a meat shield is pounding mobs that can't fight back at all). Oddly enough, I don't really run into the problem in GC or AP much (maybe because getting out of those zones is so fast). It is usually in the next zones up like PP, KR, Skyway, and Steel Canyon (not sure on the higher level ones yet).
As for getting over it, the easiest way to get over it is play another game. I admit, I haven't played L2, but I have never played a game with this much KSing at any level. I wasn't KSd in all my years of EQ as many times as I have been in my weeks of CoH (although I don't recall it being a problem in beta). And the only real difference is in EQ, there were rules against KSing and players enforced those standards themselves.
It would be nice if they would at least flesh out the mission system so you never run out of missions and always have an indoor mission available. Anymore, I avoid playing outdoors with any characters except my blaster. He holds his own just fine. But sometimes you just have no choice.
Iassure you it will get better in harder zones...as for Lineage 2....that game is literally the worse mmorpg on the market when it comes to kill stealing
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
past 15 Kill stealing is a non issue really.
yes.....ks-ing and looting in L2 is terrible terrible terrible. Throw in the chinese bots and you can really start
As for Coh..... ks-ing for me isn't much of a problem either.... i faced some problems between lvl 2 to 7... and a bit of ks-ing at PP (while killing hydras)... but nothing to get
over...
by the way why is sony so discriminatory and restricting the beta give aways for EQ2 to US and canada citizens??????
LittleGreenMan - Justice server - Lvl 17 Mutant Defender
Psiclone - Justice server - Lvl 10 Mutant Tanker
LittleGreenMan - Justice server - Lvl 17 Mutant Defender
Psiclone - Justice server - Lvl 10 Mutant Tanker
No, the easiest way to get over it is to stop seeing it as a problem. KSing does happen, and yes, I'd even say it happens a lot. However, this game isn't like so many others that require you to camp mobs for hours for rare drops. You have a mission to apprehend ten Hellions? There's a gang of five on almost every corner or behind any fence you take a moment to jump over. Someone tags one of your guys? Just turn the corner and get another. Got a griefer following you around for easy XP (it's only happened to me once)? Get an inside mission from a contact and leave that griefer at the door! If you can work it out to where you're fighting the same things inside that you need for your "kill" missions, you'll probably be able to complete both at once.
Mostly I just assume anyone who gets involved is doing so without malicious intent. I figure they're either trying to help and haven't learned the etiquette, or they can't find a group to help them with their "kill X number of Y" mission, or whatever. I don't take the time to talk to them to find out. I just throw them a salute and take to the skies.
Don't let it bother you and it won't.
You are paying a monthly fee to be entertained. To me, putting up with what is in any other game extremely rude behavior is not entertaining. What people need to get over is the idea that quitting a game is a big deal. Being rude to people is a big deal, stopping payment on something which allows people to be rude to you is not. I remember the first time I quit EQ, it was hard. But it got easier each time. Since then I have quit many games. It isn't really that hard any more. If I am not enjoying myself, then I move on to another game that is more enjoyable. I know many EQ players who need to learn how to let go and just hit that little cancel button (it was me at one time).
Anyway, I enjoy CoH, but the rudeness of KSing can wipe out a whole nights worth of enjoyment. I think the thing that upsets me the most is that the CS in the game can't even come out and take a stance on KSing. So, I will probably give it another month (I want to see that first patch), and if they don't take a stand, I am going to quit rewarding them for condoning bad behavior. Maybe I will return later, maybe not, but I pay to play for my enjoyment, not that of griefers.
If you're not having fun, then by all means you should cancel. I agree that there are too many people paying for EQ long after it ceases to entertain them.
It's a public game though. You can't really control anyone else's behavior, all you can control is your own reaction to it. If you don't like dealing with KSers, find a group of people you enjoy playing with and focus primarily on door missions. You get the multiplayer experience in a private environment.
I guess I'm perplexed about what it is you want the devs to do. They've made it so that any mob you do at least 25% of the damage to will count toward your "kill" missions, reducing the impact of KSing. They've put mobs all over the place, ensuring you never have to go far to find another group of them, and they've given you instanced zones to escape the community if you don't like it. Would you have them ban players who irritate you? Keep in mind that as a business that needs to retain subscribers, this probably isn't feasible. You may think more people will quit if KSing isn't addressed than would need to be banned, but I'm not so sure. You'd have to try pretty hard to convince me.
Just talk to a contact and get a door mission. You get a warehouse full of mobs, all for you. You won't have to compete with anyone else for their attention. Don't like indoor missions? Instanced outdoor missions are coming with the first update in a couple of weeks.
I want the devs to come out and say either KSing is against the rules, or it isn't. Banning KSing worked fine for EQ, I am sure they can make it work for them as well. And it isn't really a public game, the devs can control people's behavior, they do it all the time.
And although I don't think it is fair to force people into instanced zones because they can't control the behavior of people playing their game, it would help if you could always get an instanced mission. There are times when outdoor missions are all you can get, and other times when you can't get missions at all.
As for the 25% rule, it may have made kill missions easier, but it also made KSing worse, and seems to actually be the devs way of condoning KSing. That is another reason I would really like to see them clarify their stance on KSing.
I agree with you completely n2sooners. Their solution of playing a different game doesn't solve the problem, you may not have to deal with the KSers but every one else still does. Getting an indoor mission isn't an acceptable answer because it isn't always an option. The devs need to ban KSing.
I have noticed that some servers have more KSing than others. I tryed 3 servers, 2 of which only had a slight KSing problem and 1 that was full of KSers. Protector and Triumph aren't that bad, there is some KSing, but I've gotten a few apologies for it. Justice on the other hand has a ton of KSers, many of the blasters like to AoE your groups first so even if you kill a mob from the group the KSer still gets some of your exp and influence. I've only had 1 person apologive for KSing me on Justice. I remade all my chars from Justice on different servers last night.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
That's because Blood Clan and I are there.
- Malkavian
"When you find youself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
I wish to make a kill stealing super hero and make it his goal to steal as many kills as possible, and still come out on top with the community. Can this be done? Of course I will RP out the situation every single time I kill steal succesfully. I think I'll call him: Bill Gates.
LOL..... if you name your char BIll Gates, i'll wait till city of villains and create a char called Sun Micro. YOUR ARCH ENEMY!!!
by the way, i think these people don't get it. you find KSing irritating and annoying in other games becuse they require you to:
1)kill ALOT OF THEM (example in L2, have to kill like 30 to 40 of certain creatures each time)
2)hunt in the first place cos you're waiting for rare dorps
in coh you rarely have to kill more than 15, even at the higher levels (my supergroup members have hit 24 and they've said its still the same)
also as pointed by others. there's so many mobs out there!! its not like asking you run to the moon to find more.
KSing eats your xp??? yeah... i gues... like erm....1xp each steal? please..... when you're hitting higher lvls, you'd laugh at the idea of losing 1xp. lvling gaps grow in terms of 10-20k.
PLUS. once you lvl up and move out to areas like dark astoria, ind port, talos... KSing is non existent. its a good thing you decided to play one more month. power lvl to at least 16 to start experiencing the fun stuff.......
again as someone pointed out earlier, its all about the mentality. the way you say it, you'll never stay long in any mmorpg anymore, cos ksiing will always b a problem. go back and start playing your single player games (wait, what if the computer kill steals?)
the developers are NOT condoning KSing they're jus implementing stop gap solutions until they can find a better one. setting out rules like banning this and that 3 weeks after launch isn't exactly a great idea to attract players. right now a slightly more lawless system will attract the bandits and KSers for ncsoft to leech money.
LittleGreenMan - Justice server - Lvl 17 Mutant Defender
Psiclone - Justice server - Lvl 10 Mutant Tanker
LittleGreenMan - Justice server - Lvl 17 Mutant Defender
Psiclone - Justice server - Lvl 10 Mutant Tanker
But wait, if KSing is such a problem, how come it has never been a problem in any other the dozen or so MMORPGs I have played? I think the reason those other games don't have much problems with KSing is because they have rules against it. Fear of suspension works whenever it is tried, so I don't understand why they can't simply come out against it.
I think the big reason I have a problem with it is respect. I can't see being a part of a community where mutual respect isn't expected. You would think people who want to be heros would be more respectful of each other, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.
Oh well, it's only a game. I didn't see it holding my attention forever. I am just sad that this one point will likely end up in me quitting a few months earlier than I would have otherwise. And it isn't like there aren't some really nice looking games coming out soon. At least CoH set a really high bar for them to reach in the area of smooth releases and fun gameplay.