Basically what I'm saying is.. Asheron's Call was the greatest MMO I have ever played. I had some of the best experiences ever, and made a lot of awesome friends. The sense of community there was amazing compared to games these days, and the PvP was awesome.
But Turbine is a terrible company, and I have no faith in them whatsoever to make a good product. DDO was crap. AC2 was nothing like the original, which disappointed myself and many others. It was a good game in itself, but it competed with their own product and was counteractive. LotR, I think is garbage. I played the closed and open beta and as many times as I made characters, leveled up, etc.. I couldn't get over the feeling that I was no different than anyone else of that class and level. It has no staying power, IMO, and is just proof that they are milking franchises for what they can without trying to make games that will go down in history as a player's most rewarding MMO experience ever, such as AC1 was for many.
I will never touch a Turbine product again. AC1 will never be returned to its former glory, and there will never be another game like it.
well... AC isent it used to be.... some stuffs should been in the game and NEVER change....
1. Xp passup in the monarcy (I whas monarch in the old days....)
2. PK sould never had PKL.... (I quit PKing when PKL come)
If they hadent change this probely lesser UCM's and lot more PK's fun....
Most ppl's like the PVP sys as it whas...
If to keep PKL... it should only be used for lvl 1 to 100 only... after 100 u need to go PK... u can go PKL after u hitt that lvl... That sys had been great if they did like that.
Xp passup tingy... well.. Monarch has to think about Rank and diplomesy in the clan... and hardly free hunt for him/her self... Whit this system u need to have 10 active vassals that UCM's 24/7 to get u up in xp... or UCM ur self.... and ignor most of ur clan m8's (i had about 1k active members and hunted max solo for 1 hour a day only).
But turbine has done lot of great things to AC too.... But they did 2 BIG mistakes....
Strange, once again the teeny weenie little minority of people that like PvP seem to believe that they make or break a game. Listen up little boys - you don't. Never did, never will.
I was in AC from around December 99 when my boyfriend got a cable modem (yes, these were new thingies like highspeed internet back then) until around that next winter or so. Thistledown. I started as an alternate on his account and we soon wanted to play together so we purchased a brand spanking new thing called a Linksys (wow, that is how old this game actually is!) so we could network our computers. We played like CRAZY, got friends to join, even people from EQ were coming over or up from UO. The FREEDOM! Asheron's Call offered to the player was unpresidented. You were actually allowed to make stupid choices in your character, Unheard of!! Geeze, back then you could even do something as stupid as taking Sword skill. "Friends don't let friends take sword"
(Edit- side note, I dropped out during the later years of college to concentrate on medicine. I came back after the MCAT for about a year when Wintersebb opened (Was in the Astral Dragons, head of the archers for a long time with Huntress and soon Occam's Razor) )
But then, certain idiots through the freedom of freedom, made stupid choices that were incredable, like oh, I don't know, not taking War Magic on your mage until your 20's (which back then could be months of play time) Asheron's Call was and still to this day IS the best MMORPG that has ever been writen because it was not afraid of the dreaded 'Tank Mages'.
Why was AC not worried about tank mages, one might ask? It is beacuse it WASN'T ever going to be a PvP centered game. Care to look at the populations? Wipe the red out of your eyes for a moment and think back to the fact that next to nobody gave a hoot about PKs. That is what made the game thrive. It was a game that allowed soloing, mistakes, unthought of combinations of powers, wackey loot, good drops, bad drops, LOST ITEMS!!! corpse runs back to get your good items (Sheer terror) differing play styles and more actual world exploration that any game.
What killed the game you ask?
1) Combat macros/ Mana Pool macros. A live player would loose ground to a dork that stood in a mana pool all day or popped drudges all day. nuff said. The devs themselves macroed when the game started and never stopped it because they didn't care one bit about the game after the first 6-8 months.
2) XP Chains. Being leveled while not playing is rediculous. Gaining XP from the effort of others is socialist crackhead welfare. It should never have been part of the game, nuff said.
3) Respecing Skills!!! This I believe is the actual nail in the coffin of AC. The fun of the game was in the EFFORT of trying tough templates that were harder to level but offered rewards farther down the road. When you could respec at will, the game died that same day.
4) And later, to salt the earth where once there was a good game... crafting made certain that no good game could ever be grown in the rotten soil of the old AC.
5) Graphics. OK, a game isn't just about the graphics and I know, I know, it is written on a engine that was almost five years old at launch and is now closing in on older than most of the snot-nosed kids reading this, but my godz! you must have something better than leggo-land.
6) finally, PKing crap altering the PvE characters skills and attributes. Almost nobody was red, why should you mess with me because a fringe group of little boys want to yell curses at each other while god-moding, side-sliding, subway ganking a minority of other little dorks?
Turbine proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they fluked into Asheron's Call and the smoking gun of this proof AC2. Everything that made AC a great game was not only missing from AC2, it was activily supressed. The devs from Turd-bine have never made a game worthy or charging a fee since. The entire gaming industry doesn't understand AC. They have never tried to duplicate it because from a marketing standpoint, regardless of its value to the players, it was a fiscal flop when gauged against rival games.
AC was a nexus of many mistakes, short-sightedness, lazy programing, and zeit geist timing that merged into a beautiful game, played by a handful of lucky gamers. It wont be repeated; it wont be duplicated; it wont be reborn. Love it for what it was, but morn the void that it left in the gaming world when it died.
Rest in Peace Asheron's Call, you were loved and will be missed dearly.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Strange, once again the teeny weenie little minority of people that like PvP seem to believe that they make or break a game. Listen up little boys - you don't. Never did, never will.
Did you bother to read any of my post? The majority of top PKers were the ones that made up the most prominent group of players in the game. The PKers were often the most active people that played. Regardless of the fact of how many there were, they made up a good portion of the PvE players, and when PK was killed it started to kill the interest that those -prominent- players had in the game. Of course, most of the guild leaders and 'elder' players of the game were PvEers at heart. But some of the most active players in their allegiances were PKers. The difference with PKing in AC and other games, is that AC had a tight enough community that simply by PKing you earned a reputation with the players on the server.
In WoW if a big PvPer quits the game.. who cares? There are thousands of others to take his place. In AC if a big PKer quit the game.. it actually had a bit of an impact, because that same player was not JUST PKing. The big hitters were also important to their allegiance because they were often some of the highest level players in the guild. Now, I'm just speaking from experience from having been in the largest guild on my server. We did things first, from exploring the new dungeons, to completing the new huge quest for whatever new story arc there was. And most of the people doing those things were well known in the PK circle.
You may not have had any interest in PvP, but that doesn't mean that people more important than you in the game didn't. And for many of us, that was the real reason we played the game. So when Turbine started to butcher it, and then killed it with PKL... well, we lost interest in the game. We had no reason to compete anymore, and we started dying out. Say what you want, but PKers -did- have a huge impact on the game. Maybe not other games, but in a game like AC with a smaller community, even one person can make a difference.
Edit: And not all PKers were childish immature pissants. Some of us actually gave a crap about our reputation, and didn't want to be thought of as idiots. There's a reason there were PK wars. Because some of us couldn't stand a lot of people who PKed. Like a sensible player, we chose to do something about it.. you don't like someone, kill them in PvP. I once started a war like that. Two rival guilds merged.. one was full of idiots (granted, ours had a fair share). Namely someone I despised.. so I attacked and killed that person and said I would leave the guild if the merge wasn't undone because I refused to have a truce with people that I did not respect or like in any way. The -other- guild leader that had merged with us actually backed out of it because he didn't want bad blood between himself and certain members of our guild.
So a lot of guild politics were born that made the game much more interesting. Of course, players that weren't involved in those aspects would have known nothing about what went on behind the scenes. PKs had a huge impact on the world. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then it's your own fault for not being more involved in the goings on of the game. I was one of them, and I take pride in knowing I had an impact on a game I loved and dedicated a lot of time to.
In WoW if a big PvPer quits the game.. who cares? There are thousands of others to take his place. In AC if a big PKer quit the game.. it actually had a bit of an impact, because that same player was not JUST PKing. The big hitters were also important to their allegiance because they were often some of the highest level players in the guild. Now, I'm just speaking from experience from having been in the largest guild on my server.We did things first, from exploring the new dungeons, to completing the new huge quest for whatever new story arc there was. And most of the people doing those things were well known in the PK circle.
You may not have had any interest in PvP, but that doesn't mean that people more important than you in the game didn't. And for many of us, that was the real reason we played the game. So when Turbine started to butcher it, and then killed it with PKL... well, we lost interest in the game. We had no reason to compete anymore, and we started dying out. Say what you want, but PKers -did- have a huge impact on the game. Maybe not other
Sheista, this is why Playkillers are thought of in such a pathetic light... re-read your self promotional drivel above.
1) Largest Guild? In psychology we cal that 'Association' that you feel significant due to a sense of belonging to a group. The only people that are impressed are those individuals, noone else cares.
2) Finished Quests first? See above. What did you beat the rest of the guilds by say... four minutes? Two? Again the vast majority of the population didn't know who you were nor care. Self importance is a small world view.
3)People More Important than you in the game... ? (Cough) {curtsey} I am so sorry, even as a life-style submissive I should have genuflected more in your presence. I had no idea that your nine bucks was worth so much more than the rest of ours. Seriously though, get over yourself, the handful of people that went around ganking each other (read running pell-mell through Subway swearing at each other or portal jumping reds) trust me, they didn't mean much to the 99% of the population on the 90% of the non-PvP servers.
For the most part PvP damages good games. Little kids (of any age) cry so loudly when beaten by another little child (of any age) and demand at the top of their lungs that they must change the entire game dynamics to 'balance' the toons. Guess what, 99% of the paying players don't want the game balanced for the 1% of loud, whiney little brats. If you suck at PlayerKilling compaired to some other class, tough. Die or go home, but don't change the game to suit those tiny whiney little boys that need to feel ub3r l33t while sitting in their mommies' basements, in a puddle of sticky Mt Dew, covered with Dorito crumbs wearing their Star Wars t-shirts and WWF underroos.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
First off, yes I said a few things that were just plain insulting, and they were meant to be. I fully understood what I wrote when I wrote it. I meant to say those things to you, because I meant to be insulting. Just like how you meant to generalize about PKers first by being insulting just based off of what I had said before - which by no means was insulting to anyone. It was genuine argument and debate.
Nobody was being demeaning or rude to anyone until you posted with your holier-than-thou opening line, followed by your generalization of everything 'PK' in the world, so yes I felt the need to snap back at you with a well-deserved insult, which you're deserving of even more with your entire reply.
Second, you must have been playing a different game than I was, because we seem to recall different communities than the other. I frequented the vault boards, made a name for myself, had a lot of friends, and was well-known on my server among MANY circles. My comment was by no means an attempt at enlarging my e-peen, but to give further insight on how I recall the game as one of the -elder- players of it. You know.. one of those players that at lower levels, people remembered as having completed one of the big events in-game.. in the guild that was known for getting those server-wide broadcasts before everyone and their mother was doing them.
You can argue that 'nobody knew us' all you want, but if you bothered to keep up to date on the goings on of the ACVault boards then you would realize that there -were- "important" players/guilds on every server. Even people from other servers knew of those people and guilds.. I mean come on, Fist de Yuma, Paraduck, Gekkonidae, Blood, Elder, Tim the Enchanter, Anti Parazi, Og, etc.. etc.. just to name a few 'big AC names' that even people from other servers were aware of. Hell, only one of the people I mentioned in that list was from my server.. the rest were just people I knew of from other servers because of the impact they had on the game.
But again, it's not enlarging my e-peen.. it's stating truth to back up opinions that I was stating about the game. Putting experience behind information. It's part of proper argument, like what -was- happening, but people like yourself would take offense to opinion and respond with insult in attempt to discredit the person and make them feel small.
Please calm down and show some respect for the opinion of each other. We can't agree about everything, but look through the eyes of your "opponent" and try to understand what he/she really means.
When a player like Sheista likes PK, that element is very important to him. However if you don't like PK, stay aware your fun is not better then the fun of PK-ers. Good PK -ers are respectable players and don't deserve to be put away as "little" children. Agreed under the PK ppl are some players who I never will call a friend, because they are loud, insulting and irritating. You can call it sometimes a misplaced status feeling. Although these ppl also exists under the PvE players.
WicconCircle,
You wrote your opinion why AC have less players in the past. Some very valid points, but not quiet true anymore. Funny enough you agree with Sheista about some of them.
For instance:
- Xp-chains are gone (ok, much too late);
- PK is thriving on Darktide and not on the white servers. IMO opinion the place to go for real PK. All other forms are surrogate, but for SOME vary valid and fun.
- Graphics are upgraded. Not to the high standards of modern games, but more then acceptable.
- Bans by Turbine for UCM-ing. Of course they can't be everywhere and see all. But caught in the deed is followed by a ban. Thirth party programmers seems to understand by now they must not provide UCM-ing tools. Maybe this will ban UCM-ing for good.
These are some points in which the game is improved in the last few years. Can some things be done better? Of course, but where to find the perfect game for YOU?
Maybe it is time to look into AC and find again the fun YOU like .........
AC was a masterful MMO...i think we can all agree on that, unequaled PvP, and the the social aspect was very entertaining ,but alas like all things its time has come to an end...
looks like a large amount of Og will be moving to AoC...see you there.
Probably there will be players moving on to AoC. How much? Who can tell. Everytime a new game hits the stores you see players leaving their games to try the new "kid on the block". Always in the hope to find a better game or because they are bored with the game they play.
To my surprise AC was not hurt much by recent games like DDO and LotR. Only AC2 and WoW did some significant damage to the player base of AC.
Funny thing is many players come back to their roots after trying the newer games. On the moment we see a lot of returning players in AC and even new ones. Why? As you said yourself AC is a very good game. Was and still is. I.m.o. at this moment better then in the past. The score for this game at this site is still 8.2, while the top scores are 8.3. If AC should have modern graphics, I know for sure they would be number 1 in this list.
Why don't all old timers return to AC? Of course this is personal for everyone, but a certain trend can be seen. I have regular contacts with old players and ask them to return. Most of the time the answer is: "No it is too long ago and my chars will be noobs comparing it to high level players" or "No I don't have the zone info of my old account anymore and don't like to start from scratch". With other words: Players have fear (don't) like the cap between the player levels.
The players who return are often players with a good feeling for the social aspect of the game. They don't care too much about their levels.Till their surprise they see they are no noobs anymore after a few weeks in game. Leveling goes must faster then in the past even if you don't like to grind. Turbine must have been aware of the danger of the cap between levels and has altered the game mechanics for leveling. Lately I have seen players becoming lvl 100 in just a month time. Ok they play often and make some efforts, but this kind of achievements are no exceptions.
Conclusion: Yes we will loose some players to AoC, but it will not cause enough damage to bring AC on its knees.
And oldie but goodie returning as I type. I was on Solclaim when it opened in 2000, shortly after TOD came out, I took a break and here I am, years later returning to my old love, again!
Why? Because even with its flaws/faults it still beats the other games out there. I have yet to lose interest in AC, and I cannot say that for any other games I played since.
One player's great game is another players derisive snort! http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
1) Combat macros/ Mana Pool macros. A live player would loose ground to a dork that stood in a mana pool all day or popped drudges all day. nuff said. The devs themselves macroed when the game started and never stopped it because they didn't care one bit about the game after the first 6-8 months.
I have never stood this..."Silly"Concept.
A Macroer means NOTHING to a non-macroer in a Non-PVP environment.
Who cares that someone is higher level than you?
It was a Non-PVP environment. So what if someone who couldn't touch you macroed, it had no effect on you whatsoever. You run around, have some fun killing some monsters and show off your uber loot to your friends then socialize a bit. That is the essence of a Non-PVP game. It's non-competitive. So why were all of the Non-PVP oriented players jealous of macroers? Why do they care?
Just go run around, have fun killing some monsters then show off your uber loot to your friends and socialize a bit.
Cheaters will cheat, but if they can't kill you, who cares?
In reality, the only thing Macro's did was give everyone the same advantage as a Unemployed/Game Addict had, massive play time.
The truely sad thing about AC is... mechanically speaking, its one of the most fun enduring games on the market. If they're re-release ac1 with ac2 level graphics and a new name they could probably pick up at least 10x the subs of vanguard... oh wait, bad example, 10x the subs of ddo... oh still bad example... more than 300k subs
The graphics though... good god they make my eyes bleed. I love the game, but I can't force myself to play it because of the hideousness of the graphics... hell those graphics were lousy when it launched... now the sight of them makes baby jesus cry.
Comments
Basically what I'm saying is.. Asheron's Call was the greatest MMO I have ever played. I had some of the best experiences ever, and made a lot of awesome friends. The sense of community there was amazing compared to games these days, and the PvP was awesome.
But Turbine is a terrible company, and I have no faith in them whatsoever to make a good product. DDO was crap. AC2 was nothing like the original, which disappointed myself and many others. It was a good game in itself, but it competed with their own product and was counteractive. LotR, I think is garbage. I played the closed and open beta and as many times as I made characters, leveled up, etc.. I couldn't get over the feeling that I was no different than anyone else of that class and level. It has no staying power, IMO, and is just proof that they are milking franchises for what they can without trying to make games that will go down in history as a player's most rewarding MMO experience ever, such as AC1 was for many.
I will never touch a Turbine product again. AC1 will never be returned to its former glory, and there will never be another game like it.
well... AC isent it used to be.... some stuffs should been in the game and NEVER change....
1. Xp passup in the monarcy (I whas monarch in the old days....)
2. PK sould never had PKL.... (I quit PKing when PKL come)
If they hadent change this probely lesser UCM's and lot more PK's fun....
Most ppl's like the PVP sys as it whas...
If to keep PKL... it should only be used for lvl 1 to 100 only... after 100 u need to go PK... u can go PKL after u hitt that lvl... That sys had been great if they did like that.
Xp passup tingy... well.. Monarch has to think about Rank and diplomesy in the clan... and hardly free hunt for him/her self... Whit this system u need to have 10 active vassals that UCM's 24/7 to get u up in xp... or UCM ur self.... and ignor most of ur clan m8's (i had about 1k active members and hunted max solo for 1 hour a day only).
But turbine has done lot of great things to AC too.... But they did 2 BIG mistakes....
Strange, once again the teeny weenie little minority of people that like PvP seem to believe that they make or break a game. Listen up little boys - you don't. Never did, never will.
I was in AC from around December 99 when my boyfriend got a cable modem (yes, these were new thingies like highspeed internet back then) until around that next winter or so. Thistledown. I started as an alternate on his account and we soon wanted to play together so we purchased a brand spanking new thing called a Linksys (wow, that is how old this game actually is!) so we could network our computers. We played like CRAZY, got friends to join, even people from EQ were coming over or up from UO. The FREEDOM! Asheron's Call offered to the player was unpresidented. You were actually allowed to make stupid choices in your character, Unheard of!! Geeze, back then you could even do something as stupid as taking Sword skill. "Friends don't let friends take sword"
(Edit- side note, I dropped out during the later years of college to concentrate on medicine. I came back after the MCAT for about a year when Wintersebb opened (Was in the Astral Dragons, head of the archers for a long time with Huntress and soon Occam's Razor) )
But then, certain idiots through the freedom of freedom, made stupid choices that were incredable, like oh, I don't know, not taking War Magic on your mage until your 20's (which back then could be months of play time) Asheron's Call was and still to this day IS the best MMORPG that has ever been writen because it was not afraid of the dreaded 'Tank Mages'.
Why was AC not worried about tank mages, one might ask? It is beacuse it WASN'T ever going to be a PvP centered game. Care to look at the populations? Wipe the red out of your eyes for a moment and think back to the fact that next to nobody gave a hoot about PKs. That is what made the game thrive. It was a game that allowed soloing, mistakes, unthought of combinations of powers, wackey loot, good drops, bad drops, LOST ITEMS!!! corpse runs back to get your good items (Sheer terror) differing play styles and more actual world exploration that any game.
What killed the game you ask?
1) Combat macros/ Mana Pool macros. A live player would loose ground to a dork that stood in a mana pool all day or popped drudges all day. nuff said. The devs themselves macroed when the game started and never stopped it because they didn't care one bit about the game after the first 6-8 months.
2) XP Chains. Being leveled while not playing is rediculous. Gaining XP from the effort of others is socialist crackhead welfare. It should never have been part of the game, nuff said.
3) Respecing Skills!!! This I believe is the actual nail in the coffin of AC. The fun of the game was in the EFFORT of trying tough templates that were harder to level but offered rewards farther down the road. When you could respec at will, the game died that same day.
4) And later, to salt the earth where once there was a good game... crafting made certain that no good game could ever be grown in the rotten soil of the old AC.
5) Graphics. OK, a game isn't just about the graphics and I know, I know, it is written on a engine that was almost five years old at launch and is now closing in on older than most of the snot-nosed kids reading this, but my godz! you must have something better than leggo-land.
6) finally, PKing crap altering the PvE characters skills and attributes. Almost nobody was red, why should you mess with me because a fringe group of little boys want to yell curses at each other while god-moding, side-sliding, subway ganking a minority of other little dorks?
Turbine proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they fluked into Asheron's Call and the smoking gun of this proof AC2. Everything that made AC a great game was not only missing from AC2, it was activily supressed. The devs from Turd-bine have never made a game worthy or charging a fee since. The entire gaming industry doesn't understand AC. They have never tried to duplicate it because from a marketing standpoint, regardless of its value to the players, it was a fiscal flop when gauged against rival games.
AC was a nexus of many mistakes, short-sightedness, lazy programing, and zeit geist timing that merged into a beautiful game, played by a handful of lucky gamers. It wont be repeated; it wont be duplicated; it wont be reborn. Love it for what it was, but morn the void that it left in the gaming world when it died.
Rest in Peace Asheron's Call, you were loved and will be missed dearly.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Did you bother to read any of my post? The majority of top PKers were the ones that made up the most prominent group of players in the game. The PKers were often the most active people that played. Regardless of the fact of how many there were, they made up a good portion of the PvE players, and when PK was killed it started to kill the interest that those -prominent- players had in the game. Of course, most of the guild leaders and 'elder' players of the game were PvEers at heart. But some of the most active players in their allegiances were PKers. The difference with PKing in AC and other games, is that AC had a tight enough community that simply by PKing you earned a reputation with the players on the server.
In WoW if a big PvPer quits the game.. who cares? There are thousands of others to take his place. In AC if a big PKer quit the game.. it actually had a bit of an impact, because that same player was not JUST PKing. The big hitters were also important to their allegiance because they were often some of the highest level players in the guild. Now, I'm just speaking from experience from having been in the largest guild on my server. We did things first, from exploring the new dungeons, to completing the new huge quest for whatever new story arc there was. And most of the people doing those things were well known in the PK circle.
You may not have had any interest in PvP, but that doesn't mean that people more important than you in the game didn't. And for many of us, that was the real reason we played the game. So when Turbine started to butcher it, and then killed it with PKL... well, we lost interest in the game. We had no reason to compete anymore, and we started dying out. Say what you want, but PKers -did- have a huge impact on the game. Maybe not other games, but in a game like AC with a smaller community, even one person can make a difference.
Edit: And not all PKers were childish immature pissants. Some of us actually gave a crap about our reputation, and didn't want to be thought of as idiots. There's a reason there were PK wars. Because some of us couldn't stand a lot of people who PKed. Like a sensible player, we chose to do something about it.. you don't like someone, kill them in PvP. I once started a war like that. Two rival guilds merged.. one was full of idiots (granted, ours had a fair share). Namely someone I despised.. so I attacked and killed that person and said I would leave the guild if the merge wasn't undone because I refused to have a truce with people that I did not respect or like in any way. The -other- guild leader that had merged with us actually backed out of it because he didn't want bad blood between himself and certain members of our guild.
So a lot of guild politics were born that made the game much more interesting. Of course, players that weren't involved in those aspects would have known nothing about what went on behind the scenes. PKs had a huge impact on the world. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then it's your own fault for not being more involved in the goings on of the game. I was one of them, and I take pride in knowing I had an impact on a game I loved and dedicated a lot of time to.
Quote from Sheista :
In WoW if a big PvPer quits the game.. who cares? There are thousands of others to take his place. In AC if a big PKer quit the game.. it actually had a bit of an impact, because that same player was not JUST PKing. The big hitters were also important to their allegiance because they were often some of the highest level players in the guild. Now, I'm just speaking from experience from having been in the largest guild on my server. We did things first, from exploring the new dungeons, to completing the new huge quest for whatever new story arc there was. And most of the people doing those things were well known in the PK circle.
You may not have had any interest in PvP, but that doesn't mean that people more important than you in the game didn't. And for many of us, that was the real reason we played the game. So when Turbine started to butcher it, and then killed it with PKL... well, we lost interest in the game. We had no reason to compete anymore, and we started dying out. Say what you want, but PKers -did- have a huge impact on the game. Maybe not other
Sheista, this is why Playkillers are thought of in such a pathetic light... re-read your self promotional drivel above.
1) Largest Guild?
In psychology we cal that 'Association' that you feel significant due to a sense of belonging to a group. The only people that are impressed are those individuals, noone else cares.
2) Finished Quests first?
See above. What did you beat the rest of the guilds by say... four minutes? Two? Again the vast majority of the population didn't know who you were nor care. Self importance is a small world view.
3)People More Important than you in the game... ? (Cough)
{curtsey} I am so sorry, even as a life-style submissive I should have genuflected more in your presence. I had no idea that your nine bucks was worth so much more than the rest of ours. Seriously though, get over yourself, the handful of people that went around ganking each other (read running pell-mell through Subway swearing at each other or portal jumping reds) trust me, they didn't mean much to the 99% of the population on the 90% of the non-PvP servers.
For the most part PvP damages good games. Little kids (of any age) cry so loudly when beaten by another little child (of any age) and demand at the top of their lungs that they must change the entire game dynamics to 'balance' the toons. Guess what, 99% of the paying players don't want the game balanced for the 1% of loud, whiney little brats. If you suck at PlayerKilling compaired to some other class, tough. Die or go home, but don't change the game to suit those tiny whiney little boys that need to feel ub3r l33t while sitting in their mommies' basements, in a puddle of sticky Mt Dew, covered with Dorito crumbs wearing their Star Wars t-shirts and WWF underroos.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
First off, yes I said a few things that were just plain insulting, and they were meant to be. I fully understood what I wrote when I wrote it. I meant to say those things to you, because I meant to be insulting. Just like how you meant to generalize about PKers first by being insulting just based off of what I had said before - which by no means was insulting to anyone. It was genuine argument and debate.
Nobody was being demeaning or rude to anyone until you posted with your holier-than-thou opening line, followed by your generalization of everything 'PK' in the world, so yes I felt the need to snap back at you with a well-deserved insult, which you're deserving of even more with your entire reply.
Second, you must have been playing a different game than I was, because we seem to recall different communities than the other. I frequented the vault boards, made a name for myself, had a lot of friends, and was well-known on my server among MANY circles. My comment was by no means an attempt at enlarging my e-peen, but to give further insight on how I recall the game as one of the -elder- players of it. You know.. one of those players that at lower levels, people remembered as having completed one of the big events in-game.. in the guild that was known for getting those server-wide broadcasts before everyone and their mother was doing them.
You can argue that 'nobody knew us' all you want, but if you bothered to keep up to date on the goings on of the ACVault boards then you would realize that there -were- "important" players/guilds on every server. Even people from other servers knew of those people and guilds.. I mean come on, Fist de Yuma, Paraduck, Gekkonidae, Blood, Elder, Tim the Enchanter, Anti Parazi, Og, etc.. etc.. just to name a few 'big AC names' that even people from other servers were aware of. Hell, only one of the people I mentioned in that list was from my server.. the rest were just people I knew of from other servers because of the impact they had on the game.
But again, it's not enlarging my e-peen.. it's stating truth to back up opinions that I was stating about the game. Putting experience behind information. It's part of proper argument, like what -was- happening, but people like yourself would take offense to opinion and respond with insult in attempt to discredit the person and make them feel small.
Sheista and WicconCircle,
Please calm down and show some respect for the opinion of each other. We can't agree about everything, but look through the eyes of your "opponent" and try to understand what he/she really means.
When a player like Sheista likes PK, that element is very important to him. However if you don't like PK, stay aware your fun is not better then the fun of PK-ers. Good PK -ers are respectable players and don't deserve to be put away as "little" children. Agreed under the PK ppl are some players who I never will call a friend, because they are loud, insulting and irritating. You can call it sometimes a misplaced status feeling. Although these ppl also exists under the PvE players.
WicconCircle,
You wrote your opinion why AC have less players in the past. Some very valid points, but not quiet true anymore. Funny enough you agree with Sheista about some of them.
For instance:
- Xp-chains are gone (ok, much too late);
- PK is thriving on Darktide and not on the white servers. IMO opinion the place to go for real PK. All other forms are surrogate, but for SOME vary valid and fun.
- Graphics are upgraded. Not to the high standards of modern games, but more then acceptable.
- Bans by Turbine for UCM-ing. Of course they can't be everywhere and see all. But caught in the deed is followed by a ban. Thirth party programmers seems to understand by now they must not provide UCM-ing tools. Maybe this will ban UCM-ing for good.
These are some points in which the game is improved in the last few years. Can some things be done better? Of course, but where to find the perfect game for YOU?
Maybe it is time to look into AC and find again the fun YOU like .........
AC was a masterful MMO...i think we can all agree on that, unequaled PvP, and the the social aspect was very entertaining ,but alas like all things its time has come to an end...
looks like a large amount of Og will be moving to AoC...see you there.
Og4Life
Skojax,
Probably there will be players moving on to AoC. How much? Who can tell. Everytime a new game hits the stores you see players leaving their games to try the new "kid on the block". Always in the hope to find a better game or because they are bored with the game they play.
To my surprise AC was not hurt much by recent games like DDO and LotR. Only AC2 and WoW did some significant damage to the player base of AC.
Funny thing is many players come back to their roots after trying the newer games. On the moment we see a lot of returning players in AC and even new ones. Why? As you said yourself AC is a very good game. Was and still is. I.m.o. at this moment better then in the past. The score for this game at this site is still 8.2, while the top scores are 8.3. If AC should have modern graphics, I know for sure they would be number 1 in this list.
Why don't all old timers return to AC? Of course this is personal for everyone, but a certain trend can be seen. I have regular contacts with old players and ask them to return. Most of the time the answer is: "No it is too long ago and my chars will be noobs comparing it to high level players" or "No I don't have the zone info of my old account anymore and don't like to start from scratch". With other words: Players have fear (don't) like the cap between the player levels.
The players who return are often players with a good feeling for the social aspect of the game. They don't care too much about their levels.Till their surprise they see they are no noobs anymore after a few weeks in game. Leveling goes must faster then in the past even if you don't like to grind. Turbine must have been aware of the danger of the cap between levels and has altered the game mechanics for leveling. Lately I have seen players becoming lvl 100 in just a month time. Ok they play often and make some efforts, but this kind of achievements are no exceptions.
Conclusion: Yes we will loose some players to AoC, but it will not cause enough damage to bring AC on its knees.
And oldie but goodie returning as I type. I was on Solclaim when it opened in 2000, shortly after TOD came out, I took a break and here I am, years later returning to my old love, again!
Why? Because even with its flaws/faults it still beats the other games out there. I have yet to lose interest in AC, and I cannot say that for any other games I played since.
One player's great game is another players derisive snort!
http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
I have never stood this..."Silly" Concept.
A Macroer means NOTHING to a non-macroer in a Non-PVP environment.
Who cares that someone is higher level than you?
It was a Non-PVP environment. So what if someone who couldn't touch you macroed, it had no effect on you whatsoever. You run around, have some fun killing some monsters and show off your uber loot to your friends then socialize a bit. That is the essence of a Non-PVP game. It's non-competitive. So why were all of the Non-PVP oriented players jealous of macroers? Why do they care?
Just go run around, have fun killing some monsters then show off your uber loot to your friends and socialize a bit.
Cheaters will cheat, but if they can't kill you, who cares?
In reality, the only thing Macro's did was give everyone the same advantage as a Unemployed/Game Addict had, massive play time.
The truely sad thing about AC is... mechanically speaking, its one of the most fun enduring games on the market. If they're re-release ac1 with ac2 level graphics and a new name they could probably pick up at least 10x the subs of vanguard... oh wait, bad example, 10x the subs of ddo... oh still bad example... more than 300k subs
The graphics though... good god they make my eyes bleed. I love the game, but I can't force myself to play it because of the hideousness of the graphics... hell those graphics were lousy when it launched... now the sight of them makes baby jesus cry.
Shadus