Flying Lab Software and SOE have teamed up to bring you PotBS if you havent heard.
Basically... PotBS is still in charge of everything short of production and billing... BUT i just dont want to give anymore money to SOE. I just cant justify it... thats my two cents.
I think your an SWG vets and your opinion is as tainted as SOEs track record. Your opinion is outweighed by those of SOE's sucessful game's fans. If you don't want to play a game because you don't want to support SOE, then don't play it. Don't sit their in your baby chair and tell other people the game is going to rot because SOE is publishing it. Get over your SWG loss and move on, cause this dedication to hating SOE is getting you no where.
I never claimed this game is going to rot... in fact i have high hopes for it and still continue to do so... i just cant justify putting money towards a game that SOE is getting a cut of. I have no feelings against flying labs software, just that decision.
Not only that but i havent told anyone not to play it, or that the game is going to be shitty, so relax and take a deep breath and learn to read.
I apologize if I seem overly tense, but this is the 3rd thread about this subject in less then 5 minutes and well, it's on the verge of being skewed as propaganda tactics. I know everyone wants their own thread to voice their own opinion, but honestly, I get tired of people who must post their own take on the matter when 2, 5 or even 7 other threads of the exact same subject already exist.
Yes, SOE is publishing the game, yes Flying Labs is still in control of development, yes you hate SOE and don't want to support them, yes you now have to make a decision to either do a little evil for the greater good or no evil for no satisfaction. In one of the other multitude of threads on this subject, I basically made the point that regardless of SOE's involvement, people who turn traitor to Flying Labs over a game they were so passionate about, don't deserve an MMO they want.
I agree that hanging on to resentment isn't healthy, and it can skew people's perceptions. At the same time, suggesting that people who have a hard time letting go of a grievance are babies, isn't likely to help them in their healing journey. It's actually more likely to add insult to injury, and add to their list of grievances.
Also, the publisher (in my experience) affects things like game development time-lines. SOE has a track record of having new games go live in a nearly unplayable state, despite calls from all sides to fix game-breaking bugs before release. This concerns people who want to play a finished, workable product. In my view, we're right to be concerned. SOE needs to change its practices and earn back a lot of broken trust. They have been their own worst enemy. If they get their act together, over time, their reputation may change, and there may be less of an outcry when people find out an anticipated game is going to be published by Sony Online. My two cents.
So what you are all saying is, it doesnt matter if a game is good or bad and if the developers of the game are good or bad, if the game has any ties to SoE then you are going to do everything you can to make it look poor and to bring it crashing down?
If your friend was going to buy Hefty trashbags, but you knew the brand to be more expensive and break more often than an alternative, would you not tell them? This is all it comes down to. SOE is an inferior brand run by people who do not respect the time and investments of their customers. They are toast and will NEVER change their reputation. Anyone that ties their hitch to them will suffer the same fate. They will be perceived to be inferior because they are associated with a company that is KNOWN to be unscrupulous.
The reality is that SOE is not the brand of this game ... please read the press releases, its so clear, they are merely the conduit to putting the game on the shelves. From your logic I am guessing that you wouldnt buy a product because its stocked by a store you dont like, although the product is fine ... odd
What is so odd about that? If Walmart was the only store that sold Nike shoes, and we all know how some people feel about Walmart (I'm not one of them, I believe in capitalism, but it fits well for this analogy), do you think those people would sacrifice their principles just to buy a pair of Nike shoes? No. They'd be content with Reebok or another competitor, or they'd walk around barefoot. Nike makes good shoes, but if they chose a distributor whose business practices are dubious to some, they have to take that into consideration and realize they'd lose some sales because of it. Judging by the pseudo question/answer session on the PotBS site, which others have posted here, Flying Labs gets that concept better than you do.
For those of you who dont know much about PotBS, heres an overview:
http://www.whitewolfclan.net/pobs/review.htm There are some things SWG vets will definitely like about PotBS, but mostly I think it will be the community, as PotBS has some really friendly and intelligent players (maybe due to its indie origins, historical motif, its focus on economy and market, and its complex user submitted content system) and amazing developers who communicate very well. To those of you who are already formulating ideas that PotBS is crummy, even if you play it, think before you bash PotBS. Just because its distributed by SoE doesnt mean hurting PotBS will somehow bring down SoE... So I dunno... Can we try to recognize when we are biased and keep our mouths shut?
I understand your concern - why bash the game itself, since people may like it - but I think you're missing the point.
Those of us who feel wronged by SOE, don't really care if PotBS is a great game or not. The point is, SOE took a bite of it, and it is now poison. We've seen this in the past, and when they get their hands on it, they corrupt it. It has gone from being a foregone conclusion that SOE will ruin a game, to not even an issue - simply the fact that they have anything to do with it pushes us away. For those who can stomach playing a game that SOE is involved in, you will base the game on its own merits, and that's your decision. For some of us, it's a non-starter - SOE touched it, therefore it's unclean, regardless of the quality of the game itself. Sony as a whole will never get another dime of my money.
LMAO!
I feel the same way. I try to base my decisions on how I like a game and how much fun I find it. BUT, if SOE is associated with a game I'm looking at, it instantly gets tagged with what I refer to my friends as the "SOE Taint" and believe me thats not a good thing.
Will SOE buy it later and screw it up?
Will SOE push the company into launching early, revamps, bugged and incomplete expansions?
The 'joy' of dealing with the SOE forums and their lock/delete forum nazi moderators.
And lets not forget the, ahem, excellent SOE customer service.
It gets a lot worse consideration if it's a completely owned SOE game where they have total control over it.
I'm sorry but SOE makes the same stupid mistakes in every one of their games. Bugged and incomplete expansions then spending months to fix all the problems that was reported in beta while acting suprised these problems exist. Revamps that generally piss off everyone. Way too many bugs that are ignored for months on end, if they ever get looked at. Attempting to lie or misdirect their players at every turn. Endless nerf cycles that go nowhere or fix very little. Constantly screwing around with combat, classes, and skills but never getting it right or leaving it alone.
I've seen those same problems in EQ1, EQ2, and SWG, thats 3 for 3, it would indicate a pattern of some sort. Given that why would I voluntairily subject myself to those problems? I play games to have fun and relax with my friends, not get pissed off because SOE is screwing me or my character yet again.
Honestly PotBS is the only SOE associated game I might give a chance, but it better be damn good if I'm going to even think about getting involved with SOE again. Even if PotBS is the best thing since sliced bread, I still might not buy it. I've had way too many bad experiences with SOE games and with so many other choices of games and companies out there to choose from I'd rather not risk getting that angry "Here we go, again" feeling I've had so many other times.
actully most customers are pritty dumb if you tell them not to buy something becouse it has soe stamped on it and that listen then that proves there dumb, flying labs wont let soe have anything to do with developeing the game or even patching, thay are only alowed to use there acount system and launcher and putting on shelves becouse flying labs knows it will sell alot more then doing it them selves. plus look at everquest 2 and SWG thay are one of the top games going everquest is even 2nt top game in mmorpg.com site and SWG servers are filling up very fast again so this proves 80% of the community enjoy SOE games so the 20% dont count and thay are the once who complain alot about it.
An interesting after-action report would be to see the potential sales of Vanguard that the SOE name drove away. We'll almost certainly never know for sure now, but I'd be interested to find out.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
actully most customers are pritty dumb if you tell them not to buy something becouse it has soe stamped on it and that listen then that proves there dumb, flying labs wont let soe have anything to do with developeing the game or even patching, thay are only alowed to use there acount system and launcher and putting on shelves becouse flying labs knows it will sell alot more then doing it them selves. plus look at everquest 2 and SWG thay are one of the top games going everquest is even 2nt top game in mmorpg.com site and SWG servers are filling up very fast again so this proves 80% of the community enjoy SOE games so the 20% dont count and thay are the once who complain alot about it.
Considering your atrocious grammar, lack of spelling, and apparent inability to grasp basic economics, you have no leg to stand on by calling other people dumb, for ANY reason.
That said, maybe you misread something above. Reread my last post. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SOE IS DOING ANY DEVELOPMENT. The fact is, if they have anything AT ALL to do with the game, I will avoid it, and so will many others, as is their own decision. SOE makes money from this game. You think they are doing distribution for free? I do not want to give SOE any of my money, ever. Therefore, I cannot give any of my money to buy or subscribe to PotBS. It is completely irrelevant that SOE has any games in the Top 5 Billion of any list. If everyone who played EQII jumped off a bridge in real life, does that mean you would too? WoW has 8 million subscribers, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks it's a good game.
Comments
fishermage.blogspot.com
Looks like it's back down to Conan and WAR. Sigh.
I never claimed this game is going to rot... in fact i have high hopes for it and still continue to do so... i just cant justify putting money towards a game that SOE is getting a cut of. I have no feelings against flying labs software, just that decision.
Not only that but i havent told anyone not to play it, or that the game is going to be shitty, so relax and take a deep breath and learn to read.
I apologize if I seem overly tense, but this is the 3rd thread about this subject in less then 5 minutes and well, it's on the verge of being skewed as propaganda tactics. I know everyone wants their own thread to voice their own opinion, but honestly, I get tired of people who must post their own take on the matter when 2, 5 or even 7 other threads of the exact same subject already exist.
Yes, SOE is publishing the game, yes Flying Labs is still in control of development, yes you hate SOE and don't want to support them, yes you now have to make a decision to either do a little evil for the greater good or no evil for no satisfaction. In one of the other multitude of threads on this subject, I basically made the point that regardless of SOE's involvement, people who turn traitor to Flying Labs over a game they were so passionate about, don't deserve an MMO they want.
I agree that hanging on to resentment isn't healthy, and it can skew people's perceptions. At the same time, suggesting that people who have a hard time letting go of a grievance are babies, isn't likely to help them in their healing journey. It's actually more likely to add insult to injury, and add to their list of grievances.Also, the publisher (in my experience) affects things like game development time-lines. SOE has a track record of having new games go live in a nearly unplayable state, despite calls from all sides to fix game-breaking bugs before release. This concerns people who want to play a finished, workable product. In my view, we're right to be concerned. SOE needs to change its practices and earn back a lot of broken trust. They have been their own worst enemy. If they get their act together, over time, their reputation may change, and there may be less of an outcry when people find out an anticipated game is going to be published by Sony Online. My two cents.
Arc
The reality is that SOE is not the brand of this game ... please read the press releases, its so clear, they are merely the conduit to putting the game on the shelves. From your logic I am guessing that you wouldnt buy a product because its stocked by a store you dont like, although the product is fine ... odd
What is so odd about that? If Walmart was the only store that sold Nike shoes, and we all know how some people feel about Walmart (I'm not one of them, I believe in capitalism, but it fits well for this analogy), do you think those people would sacrifice their principles just to buy a pair of Nike shoes? No. They'd be content with Reebok or another competitor, or they'd walk around barefoot. Nike makes good shoes, but if they chose a distributor whose business practices are dubious to some, they have to take that into consideration and realize they'd lose some sales because of it. Judging by the pseudo question/answer session on the PotBS site, which others have posted here, Flying Labs gets that concept better than you do.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Those of us who feel wronged by SOE, don't really care if PotBS is a great game or not. The point is, SOE took a bite of it, and it is now poison. We've seen this in the past, and when they get their hands on it, they corrupt it. It has gone from being a foregone conclusion that SOE will ruin a game, to not even an issue - simply the fact that they have anything to do with it pushes us away. For those who can stomach playing a game that SOE is involved in, you will base the game on its own merits, and that's your decision. For some of us, it's a non-starter - SOE touched it, therefore it's unclean, regardless of the quality of the game itself. Sony as a whole will never get another dime of my money.
LMAO!
I feel the same way. I try to base my decisions on how I like a game and how much fun I find it. BUT, if SOE is associated with a game I'm looking at, it instantly gets tagged with what I refer to my friends as the "SOE Taint" and believe me thats not a good thing.
Will SOE buy it later and screw it up?
Will SOE push the company into launching early, revamps, bugged and incomplete expansions?
The 'joy' of dealing with the SOE forums and their lock/delete forum nazi moderators.
And lets not forget the, ahem, excellent SOE customer service.
It gets a lot worse consideration if it's a completely owned SOE game where they have total control over it.
I'm sorry but SOE makes the same stupid mistakes in every one of their games. Bugged and incomplete expansions then spending months to fix all the problems that was reported in beta while acting suprised these problems exist. Revamps that generally piss off everyone. Way too many bugs that are ignored for months on end, if they ever get looked at. Attempting to lie or misdirect their players at every turn. Endless nerf cycles that go nowhere or fix very little. Constantly screwing around with combat, classes, and skills but never getting it right or leaving it alone.
I've seen those same problems in EQ1, EQ2, and SWG, thats 3 for 3, it would indicate a pattern of some sort. Given that why would I voluntairily subject myself to those problems? I play games to have fun and relax with my friends, not get pissed off because SOE is screwing me or my character yet again.
Honestly PotBS is the only SOE associated game I might give a chance, but it better be damn good if I'm going to even think about getting involved with SOE again. Even if PotBS is the best thing since sliced bread, I still might not buy it. I've had way too many bad experiences with SOE games and with so many other choices of games and companies out there to choose from I'd rather not risk getting that angry "Here we go, again" feeling I've had so many other times.
actully most customers are pritty dumb if you tell them not to buy something becouse it has soe stamped on it and that listen then that proves there dumb, flying labs wont let soe have anything to do with developeing the game or even patching, thay are only alowed to use there acount system and launcher and putting on shelves becouse flying labs knows it will sell alot more then doing it them selves. plus look at everquest 2 and SWG thay are one of the top games going everquest is even 2nt top game in mmorpg.com site and SWG servers are filling up very fast again so this proves 80% of the community enjoy SOE games so the 20% dont count and thay are the once who complain alot about it.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/3845509852.png
An interesting after-action report would be to see the potential sales of Vanguard that the SOE name drove away. We'll almost certainly never know for sure now, but I'd be interested to find out.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
That said, maybe you misread something above. Reread my last post. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SOE IS DOING ANY DEVELOPMENT. The fact is, if they have anything AT ALL to do with the game, I will avoid it, and so will many others, as is their own decision. SOE makes money from this game. You think they are doing distribution for free? I do not want to give SOE any of my money, ever. Therefore, I cannot give any of my money to buy or subscribe to PotBS. It is completely irrelevant that SOE has any games in the Top 5 Billion of any list. If everyone who played EQII jumped off a bridge in real life, does that mean you would too? WoW has 8 million subscribers, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks it's a good game.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum