"They built the game on their own dime, and yet because the only company that they could do business with is SOE, people want to burn them down to the ground." My point was that SOE wasn't somehow the only company they could possibly deal with. It was a choice. My example of NC soft was just picking a company that looks to publish games for indi companies.
I suspect FLS would rather have gone it alone and distributed their game electronically then deal with a company that sent them legal documents that differed from their verbal agreements or wanted direct control over their IP. It certainly sounds as if SOE was the only company that met their basic requirements and therefore in practical terms was the only real option.
Or they were the cheapest, or they offered in instant market of 100k users with station pass. We could all imagine hundreds of different reasons of whys and hows they chose SOE. It is just a bit overboard to suggest they were "forced" to partner with SOE due to lack of options. Plenty of other software gets published without SOE and Flying labs chose SOE for better or worse.
Or they were the cheapest, or they offered in instant market of 100k users with station pass. We could all imagine hundreds of different reasons of whys and hows they chose SOE. It is just a bit overboard to suggest they were "forced" to partner with SOE due to lack of options. Plenty of other software gets published without SOE and Flying labs chose SOE for better or worse.
thats why I never trust anything SOE claim about their population # with station pass u could have ppl with 5 game accounts but only really playing 1 like my cousin. Sure they will get good # at the start b/c most of the station pass ppl will buy a copy to try it out just like Vanguard.
How many dollars? How many donuts? I drive past a Krispy Kreme on the way to work, and the team likes donuts!
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Really? I thought they just liked cakes and pies.
Oh, they're not picky. I regularly bring in banana bread, cookies, brownies, whatever. Free food doesn't last long around here, we've got a floor full of starving artists...
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Banana bread? That is it. This game is doomed.
Seriously tho. Do not get lumped with Vanguard. Look at what they did and do the exact opposite. If VG ate banana bread make sure you do not eat banana bread.
Or they were the cheapest, or they offered in instant market of 100k users with station pass. We could all imagine hundreds of different reasons of whys and hows they chose SOE. It is just a bit overboard to suggest they were "forced" to partner with SOE due to lack of options. Plenty of other software gets published without SOE and Flying labs chose SOE for better or worse.
Or, we could do something radical like read what FLS has written on the subject. Rick Saada has already said that SOE was the only publisher that didn’t ask for control of the IP. This fact alone probably made them the only viable candidate.
Originally posted by Daffid011There are plenty of game publishers in the world. Saying that there was no other choice but SOE is being a rather appologetic to say the least. NC soft for one is a great example of what you are over looking.
They did not say it was their only choice, they said it was their best choice. We do not know who they turned down and why. But they did say what most publishers wanted and that some would not put in their contract what they agreed to verbally. We do not know for sure but who knows if NCSoft wanted to own the IP if they published it?
The original poster said this
"They built the game on their own dime, and yet because the only company that they could do business with is SOE, people want to burn them down to the ground."
My point was that SOE wasn't somehow the only company they could possibly deal with. It was a choice. My example of NC soft was just picking a company that looks to publish games for indi companies.
It was the only one they could deal with, becouse it was the only one that would accept Flying Labs Demands/requirements.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
People seem to think the only disdain for SOE stems from SWG purely... this is not the case for all of us. I had several issues with EQ I, and piss poor customer service drove me away. They're name attached anywhere to a product, whether they simply handle the gem covers for the disks or have their hand in the development is enough for me to be wary. So I will treat this like I do any other MMO game and wait for all the monkeys to test the waters, then after I read how crappy/wonderful it is I will decide to buy it.
Just remember this, everything being said by FL was said by Sigil. And now us 'fanatics' get to use the fantastic phrase 'I told you so!" I got dollars to donuts you'll here the same phrase
VolatileMan
How many dollars? How many donuts? I drive past a Krispy Kreme on the way to work, and the team likes donuts!
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
UGH, Krispy Kreme is your donut supplier?!? Everyone knows that Krispy Kreme is responsible for the dotcom bust. My company was wrecked because of Krispy Kreme and went unemployed for 14 months. I'm totally not buying your game. You should have bought Dunkin Donuts.
Remember, Krispy Kreme is one K short of being a hate group!
Or they were the cheapest, or they offered in instant market of 100k users with station pass. We could all imagine hundreds of different reasons of whys and hows they chose SOE. It is just a bit overboard to suggest they were "forced" to partner with SOE due to lack of options. Plenty of other software gets published without SOE and Flying labs chose SOE for better or worse.
Or, we could do something radical like read what FLS has written on the subject. Rick Saada has already said that SOE was the only publisher that didn’t ask for control of the IP. This fact alone probably made them the only viable candidate.
I guess I stand corrected, but still remain sceptical at best. Everyone that got in bed with SOE for "just publishing" has gone into immediate damage control with press releases.
Do I think a company is dumb enough to make a game and wait to find a way to publish the game so close to launch? No.
If SOE had said they would only handle the publishing if they gained control of the IP then would flying labs just be forced to sell just in order to get the game out? I guess so if we listen to what flying labs has posted.
What I do believe is that SOE offers a very attractive publishing package. Well established trade channels, some experience in advertising, hardware support, volumes of connections in the industry and most importanly station pass subscribers as an extra market to gain some partial subscription dollars from (if you know how station pass pays each game). It also offers the largest pool of players who are content waiting years for a game to get finished should you need to release early. I am willing to bet there is a golden parachute buyout offer should things go poorly for the game. Overall SOE has a pretty smart angle in this offering, by my estimations at least. It is one giant safety net if your game doesn't get drowned out by the anti soe crowd.
So, do i think SOE was their only avenue, not one bit. Do I think SOE offered the best package, yes.
Do I think a company is dumb enough to make a game and wait to find a way to publish the game so close to launch? No.
Sigh. Actually Yes. Although really it was more like we've been planning on doing it ourselves via digital distribution all along, but have been dallying with various publishers as alternatives throughout the process. In each case things have fallen apart over deal terms (like who owns the IP), and we revert back to doing it ourselves. And then out of left field comes a deal that leaves us the IP, control of development, and doesn't demand the vast majority of the revenue. So we looked at the alternatives and decided it was WAY better to have boxes in stores than not, especially given how little we had to give up to make the deal happen. And now we're all working our asses off to get the game done so we can get it out the door... Oh. Hi Rusty. Oops. Yeah, I'll get back to work.
Seriously tho. Do not get lumped with Vanguard. Look at what they did and do the exact opposite. If VG ate banana bread make sure you do not eat banana bread.
Sigh. I guess we're doomed. I made banana bread tonight. Oh well. Of course *mine* has chocolate chips in it, and maybe that will make all the difference...
Comments
Or they were the cheapest, or they offered in instant market of 100k users with station pass. We could all imagine hundreds of different reasons of whys and hows they chose SOE. It is just a bit overboard to suggest they were "forced" to partner with SOE due to lack of options. Plenty of other software gets published without SOE and Flying labs chose SOE for better or worse.
Really? I thought they just liked cakes and pies.
Oh, they're not picky. I regularly bring in banana bread, cookies, brownies, whatever. Free food doesn't last long around here, we've got a floor full of starving artists...Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Banana bread? That is it. This game is doomed.
Seriously tho. Do not get lumped with Vanguard. Look at what they did and do the exact opposite. If VG ate banana bread make sure you do not eat banana bread.
He also makes GREAT baklava. Where does that fall on the food-evil spectrum?
They did not say it was their only choice, they said it was their best choice. We do not know who they turned down and why. But they did say what most publishers wanted and that some would not put in their contract what they agreed to verbally. We do not know for sure but who knows if NCSoft wanted to own the IP if they published it?
The original poster said this"They built the game on their own dime, and yet because the only company that they could do business with is SOE, people want to burn them down to the ground."
My point was that SOE wasn't somehow the only company they could possibly deal with. It was a choice. My example of NC soft was just picking a company that looks to publish games for indi companies.
It was the only one they could deal with, becouse it was the only one that would accept Flying Labs Demands/requirements.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
And that's absolutely reasonable.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
UGH, Krispy Kreme is your donut supplier?!? Everyone knows that Krispy Kreme is responsible for the dotcom bust. My company was wrecked because of Krispy Kreme and went unemployed for 14 months. I'm totally not buying your game. You should have bought Dunkin Donuts.
Remember, Krispy Kreme is one K short of being a hate group!
/sarcasm off
Krispy Kream> Dunkin Donuts, Only when they first come out of the over though, they're to die for. No wonder this game is taking forever
I guess I stand corrected, but still remain sceptical at best. Everyone that got in bed with SOE for "just publishing" has gone into immediate damage control with press releases.
Do I think a company is dumb enough to make a game and wait to find a way to publish the game so close to launch? No.
If SOE had said they would only handle the publishing if they gained control of the IP then would flying labs just be forced to sell just in order to get the game out? I guess so if we listen to what flying labs has posted.
What I do believe is that SOE offers a very attractive publishing package. Well established trade channels, some experience in advertising, hardware support, volumes of connections in the industry and most importanly station pass subscribers as an extra market to gain some partial subscription dollars from (if you know how station pass pays each game). It also offers the largest pool of players who are content waiting years for a game to get finished should you need to release early. I am willing to bet there is a golden parachute buyout offer should things go poorly for the game. Overall SOE has a pretty smart angle in this offering, by my estimations at least. It is one giant safety net if your game doesn't get drowned out by the anti soe crowd.
So, do i think SOE was their only avenue, not one bit. Do I think SOE offered the best package, yes.
Sigh. Actually Yes. Although really it was more like we've been planning on doing it ourselves via digital distribution all along, but have been dallying with various publishers as alternatives throughout the process. In each case things have fallen apart over deal terms (like who owns the IP), and we revert back to doing it ourselves. And then out of left field comes a deal that leaves us the IP, control of development, and doesn't demand the vast majority of the revenue. So we looked at the alternatives and decided it was WAY better to have boxes in stores than not, especially given how little we had to give up to make the deal happen. And now we're all working our asses off to get the game done so we can get it out the door... Oh. Hi Rusty. Oops. Yeah, I'll get back to work.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EFPBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Hey...us "SOE haters" may be crazy peoples...
But we are crazy peoples with extra money and time on our hands :P