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pvp the new pve
damiansometh
Member Posts: 3
well i thought id have more time but I'm a lazy F^$k.
PvP has become the New PvE in many ways. in the dawn of MMO's and video games in their entirety. it was all PvE, Mario, Pong, Zelda, and Duck hunt to name some, even more advanced games like everquest, Guild Wars, DAoC, and World of Warcraft started out with more PvE then PvP (battlegrounds didn't show up till about a year after launch and pvp was outworld pvp was for high lvlers). but today online games are focusing on more of a Pvp Aspect (Hence: Warhammer, WoW, Fury, Huxley, City of H&V). all of these games take in pvp as a more powerful leveling component. WarHammer Online is relying on pvp to hook players with all their talk about slaughtering your enmies in RvR zones and looting enemy cities after gaining pvp points to take it over. WoW trying to add (helplessly) more invigorating pvp options (which sucked) like the towers in plaguelands and the other new battleground. Fury which will be all PvP rakion style (hopefully without hackers and the endless server list) huxley which with Battlefield 2142 ahve spiked up and uprising for mmofps like games (not talking about Phylon cause thats shit!!!) where u gun down people in battles. cities of heroes and villians puts both worlds against each other. but games lik lord of the rings online which give no form of pvp are doomed to fail because many will lose interest fast.
these are just some examples of how newer games are focusing on pvp or players trying to kill players for more benifit. this is what more games should focus on thats why Warhammer online is #1 on the most wanted list. developers should make their games more intense and more interesting for the players.
-Sypher, After World Guild -WAR
-Damiansomething- everything else
PS. feel free to e-mail me with ur thoughts for more posts...or complaints, and corrections.
Comments
The switch to pvp focus probably would have happened sooner were it not for the abysmal failure of shadowbane. That game was to be the holy grail of pvp when it came out, and was set to bring back the pvp thrill that ultima online had been so well known for. As a result of shadowbanes failure, developers did not want a repeat disaster and so stayed away from anything that was pvp centric for many years.
Only now, after years of giving people their fill of pve, are people looking for something different and the balance shifting back. I do not think that pvp is inherently better or more interesting, it is just something different after a long period of same old same old. We may very well find in 5-10 years the scales shift back to something non-pvp as people grow tired of the same old same old.
People have been playing first-person shooters for a long time now, there never was any real online "PvE" component to any first-person shooter and those who I presume that desire PvP over PvE nowadays are those who are more aligned with an FPS background. Now with more and more people coming to the MMO genre these same people desire to kill other real players and not NPC's. Fighting live players can be much more unpredictable than any AI to date which in turn provides ENDLESS gameplay in a single battleground as opposed to conquering a new instance and memorizing boss mob strategies.
What WAR offers over other current PvP systems is a feeling of REAL contribution to an overall effort, not just BG's (e.g. WoW where its nothing more than a self-fulfilling honor grind.) WAR wants you to feel like you're apart of a constant war waging battle against others in furious PvP to gain the ultimate prize; the opponent's capital city!
I think what PVP adds is the rush of feeling you can be ganked or zerged at any time. Also, the naughty feeling of ganking or zerging someone else. PVE was great in the beginning, but gets repetitive and becomes non-challenging after a bit.
But a good mix of PVE and PVP should make for a sucessful design aspect.
I agree with you but one thing u stated is indeed false. WoW is in no way, shape , or form a pvp-focused game...just thought i'd make that clear.
meh, they aren't making pvp games because of pvp and the things it adds, they are making pvp focused games because if they make a pve focused one, they will be in direct competition with wow for players. Seeing how it's hard to have more pve content than wow for a just released game (plus there is eq2 and lotro somewhere there for pve lovers as well) It stands to reason that it's much easier to make a financially successful mmo by targetting pvp, which is very lacking.
WoW is hardly PvP focused, and it doesn't incorporate PvP as a leveling component in any way. But it does have PvP. And as WoW shows, you don't have to be so PvP focused to be successful. But you do need it. Just like you need PvE.
Also, LotRO fails because it's just not a good game altogether.
LotR indeed has a form of PvP now with the recently introduced Monster Play. While it isn't the best out there it has promise, and the idea that you start with a lvl 50 char and build him up using a point system is appealing in it's own way. But like I said, right now it needs alot of work to be anything more then a side note. But it does have promise.
Now if they would just bring UO into the present I would again be hooked, but even with it's new "upgrade" Kingdom Reborn it is still the same old graphics and it's new ui is pretty horrible.
I just wish Darkfall would actualy do something now that would be sweet.
I agree with OP however world of war craft has added the arena system which is great competative PvP for very good rewards. I recently finished as a gladiator in last season got a mount thats 310% speed (30% more than normal epic) and got lots of gladiator gear from arena points for being a high team. Its really the only reason I play world of war craft the PvP the PvE raiding blows I hate raids.
I think the reason it's taken so long to switch from a PvE to a PvP focus honestly is WoW.
In single-player games a lot of developers look at what works and try to emulate it, maybe tossing in something new or a minor tweak here and there. But for most games (shooters, CRPGS, RTS, etc) it's the same thing with new graphics and a new storyline.
But MMOs function less like a product and more like a service. When WoW was released it's gameplay was miles ahead of anything else out at the time, and it showed it by gathering a huge subscriber base. Games like LOTRO and Vanguard and DDO that try to out-WoW WoW have no chance - sure they might be a better mousetrap but when someone is still paying for and has a lot invested in what they already have that's little reason to switch.
I know there have been some good PvP games, but they don't interest me too much - I'd rather play UT than Guild Wars if I just want to crack some skulls with no persistent consequences, and games with FFA PvP and/or harsh PvP death penalities (like Eve) scare a lot of people away, though honestly if WAR wasn't releasing within the next year I'd probably at least try EvE.
Just my 2 cents though
Aye, PvP truly is hte new PvE, players today love to know that they have the chance to make somebody many miles away smash their keyboard over the fact that their hard worked character has just been slaughtered.... by you
It is much more satisfying to know that you have actually killed another player than just killing some random player generated monster.
I don't believe that WAR is being made into a pvp-based game solely because they don't want to compete with WOW's impressive sales. The tabletop game is about battle, and that's what the MMORPG should be about as well. Everything in WAR will contribute in some way to the ongoing war effort and i think that sense of helping your side and not just being out for your own personal gain will be a feature that a lot of people will enjoy.
The guys at EA Mythic are creating what looks like a great game that will be pvp-based but not exclusive to it. If this game happens to come along at a time when players are ready and willing to try that experience, then sweet, more cannon fodder
from what I have read / seen about war hammer it looks like the game is going to be so jam packed with quests ect that it will feel more like a job than a game.
Ye and raiding is totaly not a job..besides, you should read up on the questing, might give you more of a "fun!"feeling than a "job"feeling. If you think it'll be a job like in WoW..just stay away from it.
Oh ye, from what you have read/seen ...thats ehh..nothing ? You seem terribly misinformed if you did. Maybe you need comprehensive reading classes.
i really think Ultima Online has a good pvp system before, actually not a pvp system but you can pk and you go red and the penalty is you can't go to towns except one town.
also there are guards at town to protect from innocent pplz, and if you want more action you can join guilds to fight each other.
oh boy.... those were the good old times ^^
Nope, I don't think mythic is making war into a pvp game because they don't want to compete with wow. Between warhammer's background, mythic's expertise in pvp, and their trademark rvr take on pvp, and lack of pvp mmos, it just makes sense for them to do an rvr based game instead of a pve based one. Plus no matter what you do in pve, unless you have dynamic world and many gm's working on it creating quests and storylines it will end up the same item based grind like every other pve based game.
Don't forget though, climax was making warhammer online which was going to be a pve game (even though warhammer's background is very pvp focused) and wow had very pvp background as well (orcs and humans in a shaky alliance and all that at the end of wc3) and look how that turned out. So, a company could take ab ip and turn it into pve or pvp focused game almost no matter what ip's background is like.
PS: You don't need to do a single quest in war. Don't like quests? Go kill people all day long, you don't even need to kill a single mob if you don't feel like it. Also, having a lot of quests is only a bad thing if you must complete them all and they all have time sinks, since nither is the case in war, having lots of quests just gives players more options as to what to do.