Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Heroes in SWG
Kylrathin
Member Posts: 426
I'm curious to get other opinions on this. When I played SWG, the key thing I remember about pre-CU was just marinating in the universe. I was a citizen of the Star Wars galaxy, and my destiny was my own to write. I could be anyone I wanted. Except, of course, the true heroes of the galaxy, the ones who would eventually save it - Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, a male version of Princess Leia, etc. 
That being the case, those heroes were raised to legendary status, even if you just fit them to the timeline - they were responsible for dealing the biggest crushing blow the Empire had received since its inception. As such, I felt so far below them all. I would have my own path, which may or may not have coincided with assisting those heroes on their quest, but it was MY decision.
My question to everyone is, how important was it to you (or is it now) that you be directly involved in the lives of the main characters of the movies? Is your Star Wars dream to be flying alongside Red 5 on a Death Star attack run? Or flying the Falcon while Han Solo is frantically trying to fix the hyperdrive while escaping a Star Destroyer? Or do the lives of the heroes just that - their own lives, which may or may not ever cross yours? And did you ever want to be known in SWG as a hero in your own right?
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Comments
A valid, question which determines a valid response.
I must say this, I much prefer feeling as though my game experience means something in the star wars universe, i do prefer playing as or alongside han solo, luke or any other iconic character rather than be the 3rd soldier on the right of the 6th battalion.
The way I saw SWG, is that the players are the endless legions of extras from the movies, who had their own backstories, their own 15 minute claims to fame (I was the woman pushed aside by the stormies just outside Hanger 94 in Mos Eisley!), just trying to live their lives out, even if it was like Uncle Owen trying to shield his nephew from going off on some damned fool idealistic crusade.
I would have been perfectly OK with never having player Jedi.
But then, I was not a marketing asshat for LA who wanted to appeal to prequel fans who were all glowstick glowstick, glowstick, and it wasn't enough to have Jedi Knight to get glowstick jollies.
Creating your own little background story against the tapestry of Star Wars was just allright with me.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
That is what drove me away more than the NGE, more than the lies, more than anything else... being told what it is I wanted. That and that mindset alone are the reasons why anything that Smedley gets anywhere near I keep my money far away from.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I love that line "marinating in the universe".
When I begun SWG on June 26th/27th of '03 my intention from the beginning was to be an architect. I knew that as an architect I wouldn't be directly involved in the GCW but it was always my hope/expectation that I would be able to supply bunkers and bases to my side.
I believed that crafting would have an impact on how well my side did.
So, to answer your question, I just wanted to be myself. Someone who could help my side in any way I could. I never wanted to be a hero, although it was nice to know that I could change my statis in game and try to be a hero if the need was there.
But for the most part I was happy to be just me.
I had no real interest in "flying alongside Luke" or any of that stuff. It was fun to see the main characters in-game and I pretended my dancer had a huge crush on Han Solo (I got the idea from my sister who, as a teenager, had a huge crush on Harrison Ford many years ago).
Other than something minor like that, though, I wanted to carve my own place out in the galaxy, and I was interested in other things besides just the GCW.
What I liked about SWG was that I felt I was living *inside* the SW universe... Most games I've played before or since just don't have that level of immersion. I had 2 characters that did totally different things. My Dancer girl hardly ever left the cantina or her home town, except to go be a headliner at some party or event... she didn't do much combat, and so on. My CH/TKA was a loner, hunter sort who was always out in the most dangerous wilds (usually Endor, her favorite place) hunting down hides for a tailor or just looking for a cool animal to tame. The experiences I had with these two were 100% completely different, because SWG was a world, and my characters were LIVING in it.
Contrast this with a game like COH (I will not use NGE as an example because I don't play it). Every character is a superhero. Every superhero has the same missions offered, exactly the same. Each mission is always on the same map, vs. the same guys. Now, the SWG random missions had this quality but you didn't have to do them, and often I did not. COH, meanwhile, these pre-set mission/quests are all there is to do... So every single one of my superhero alts did the same thing at every level, one after another. They all fought Bonestorm. They all defeated Mistress Crey. They all battled the Devouring Earth. They all rescued the same exact hostages from the same gang members in the same warehouses, over and over again like an episode of groundhog day. The COH "world" is no such thing, but is a static cartoony little town... it really is a CITY of heroes.
SWG, at launch, was really a GALAXY -- my character lived in it. In COH, my character just "quested" in it. There is a difference. I prefer the former. And it's why I will always love the launch version of SWG.
C
Looking back, some of the later(pre-NGE) Jedi changes signaled the beginning of the end. Everyone could get one they just needed to grind every profession out, if they had stuck with their original plan with permadeath/Lightsaber Tefs things would've worked out better I think.
Remember that the original SWG was out awhile before WoW and people weren't used to 'hold my hand' questing/etc. that WoW has brainwashed people into. People would've accepted the fact that they would never be able to become of Jedi and not everyone at that time really cared. The problems started not only after the first few major Jedi changes but when they also didn't update the content of the game for a LONG time. It is a sandbox game but even open ended games need updates, Death watch bunker doesn't count I mean real updates.
A franchise like Star Wars can only work (or at least works best) in a game when you ARE NOT the Hero (Luke, Han, Leia etc..etc)
Games like KotOR and the Jedi Knight series are praised and played by many. Thats cause you are not playing as one of the heroes but have a great adventure on your own inside the SW world.
Its cool if you have a chance to meet a hero but being one yourself in Star Wars Galaxies takes the game down the drain because you're not supposed to be the hero. Especially not when the game is placed within the timeline of the movies! Why? It had its own heroes at that time, which didnt include you!
I liked it much better when I could create my own story. Luke, Han and Darth were off doing their own thing, good for them. I wanted my story to be unique and my own, and for the most part it was. I'd rather create my own story than follow some random plot made up by some random developer. I'd rather go on a hunting trip on Endor with a group of friends, meet up with a random ranger just relaxing in his camp. If I wanted to fly alongside Luke or Han I would play a single player game. I wanted my own story so I could interact with the community that was reliant upon each other and actually conversed with each other. I wanted a story that wasn't level dependant, so I could hunt with my friends reguardless of their skill level. I wanted a story that fit into the actual timeline. I want my old story back.
I don't think any of the players should have had an impact in Heroes' lives unless they actually did it themselves (impacted the heroes, which is not really possible in the game). Yes, everyone prefers to be a hero rather than a simple farmer, but they are missing one thing. This is an MMORPG. The whole point is to live in the Star Wars Universe. You are your own person in the galaxy and are free to do what you want. Whether or not you make an impact should be determined by your actions, chance circumstances, etc.
If you want to be the one to save the galaxy, you should go play Rogue Squadron or something. An MMO is suppose to simulate a world, so a player should not be able to say, "I'm going to defeat [insert villain name here]," and have it be done.
This is all of course my opinion, but I will always hold true to it.
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
The lives of the main heroes in the Star Wars mythology have been fairly well documented in the movies and expanded universe books. I much preferred to be a person, important in my own right, who infrequently engaged in interaction with select notable persons - perhaps the only exception was Vader, I enjoyed the feeling of "being" one of his mercenaries who hunts down the (presumed) elements of the Rebellion that aren't seen in the movies. Being someone more like Bossk, Dengar, IG-88 - someone important in their own right, but somewhat peripheral to the main ressurection of the Jedi and return to grace of Anakin Skywalker story arc. After the destruction of the first Death Star Vader was charged with ferreting out the rebels - obviously, his lead on Hoth paid off, I liked to think I was another agent sent elsewhere to investigate, and I may not have found Skywalker and his band of Rebels but I did find my own adventure and fought against the Rebellion where the opportunity presented itself. My characters weren't seen in the movies, but they weren't Uncle Owen either - I had my own life, it was important to me, and that is what I seek in all MMOs. I think by having so much non-combat options, SWG gave a fuller feeling of a virtual life that many other games do - WoW and CoH/V, for example, while being great games in their own right are too focused on just combat and not on developing the rest of your own personal story. SWG facilitated this, and that is what I felt was the greatest strength of that game.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
I always wanted to be a part of the war but never really wanted to be the "hero". I wanted to know that I was helping with the fight against the evil rebellion.
Thats the problem with the timeline they chose. Its very limiting. Would have been perfect to be made after episode 6. A few jedi allowed to be around but still hunted. Susceptible to the darkside and all that stuff.
Especially when you consider that everything that any hero does or says has to be approved by LA.
Great question and I agree that one should write their own story!
I loved working my furry, wook, tuckus off to get somwhere. I did enjoy the Jabba missions, I did enjoy Vader/Emperor missions but at the same time I did not. VADER should not have been in a building while 10 rebs were attacking the guards outside the Emporers retreat! The quest giver there should have been a Moff. I do not like LOTRO because Gimli should NOT be giving me quests to kill rabbits! On a side note I hated the Emperors room...it was small and silly.
Back to the main point. I wanted my future not any of the main toons lives. I did not mind crossing paths with them...seeing Han and Chewie in a back room hatching plans is fine. But wait, Chewie is in a room and on Kash...BS. Yes I forge my destiny not anyone elses and I would play any game that has the same "realism" as old SWG no matter what the genre.
If I were more into roleplay I probably would enjoy gameplay that is more indepth with the story, but when I quit SWG it wasn't the heroes I missed but rather my friends who were more important then NPC's.
I liked creating my own "story." Entering a MMO expecting to play the role of a hero in a movie is unrealistic. There was only 1 Luke Skywalker, only 1 Han Solo, only 1 Princess Leia. In a MMO there's the possibility of thousands of players running around. Does it make sense for everybody playing to be one of those 3 people? If you are playing a single player game or a game with online playability (different from MMO), then you can play the role of one of the few heroes in the movie. Online, you can have a small group where everyone in the group chooses a different hero.
Now, there is the possibility of bumping into or interacting with a main character in the story line. Do we have to assume that Han Solo was the only person in the Star Wars environment that had dealing with Jabba? Chances are other people worked for or owed money to Jabba also. I thought they could have done so much more with some of the themepark areas. Have a quest line to get to Jabba and earn rewards along the way? OK but this could have been a method to "unlock" Jabba's palace. Lots of open ended content could have occurred there too. There should have been the possibility to get missions there much like the missions one got from the terminals. Have the ability to borrow credits or supplies from Jabba and, if you don't repay him in time or return an item with too much damage, risk ending up on the bounty hunter list. Maybe smugglers on Tatooine should have feared Jabba a little bit unless they were on his payroll as they may have been interferring with his business. Extend those same ideas to other themeparks where once you completed the quest line that earned the badge there would be other random missions you could get from them and there were risks associated with them depending on your role in the galaxy (ex.: engage in factional pvp and forget just having the risk of the player putting a bounty on your head, the bounty hunter might find your name on a terminal at that factions "themepark" esp. if you engage in pvp close to the area).
Another thing they could have done with npc heroes to remove the "mall santa" feel from them would have been to have the heroes only be in one location at a time. Would it make sense to run into Solo on two different planets? Yes, after all you had been able to be on two different planets right? Would it make sense for you to be on one planet seeing Solo while your guildie is on another planet seeing him at the same time? Not realistically, then he's either got an identical twin and one of them is not the real Solo, he's got clones running around, or he's in two places at one time which is not possible. If you get a system message that the Princess is visiting Anchorhead does it make sense that you are talking to her at the rebel themepark at that very moment? Same thing.
But back to the original question....I enjoyed the ability to create a character, choose that character's story, and live out that character's life as I chose. Hoping another game will come along soon that gives me that ability.
My story is one I created not gorge lucas.... Thats why I like swg even though I know I can never be a writer or a movie actor or anything the game gave me opportunity to imagine my own story line which crossed with other story lines to create one big book. Our (vets) stories may not of crossed but they are all in the same book. So I now know why we must fight for our story back because we all created it, Not many games Had a Wookiee who could become a Dark Jedi (I was empire lol so don't hold it agents me) Back then there were FEW Jedi Wookiee and even Fewer Dark Jedi wookies and that is why I liked the game. Yet I knew that Jedi's/dark Jedi's should not be in that timeline... but who cares? We all had fun grinding our way to Jedi or being Jedi or not being Jedi and whether you were a Jedi on the run from a BH or a scout just camping out and chilling our stories all were being told in some way some how.. Now sadly we can no longer write our storied unless it involves nothing but battle... out in hopes that you can see Darth Vader or Luke SKywalker more than the 10 times they drop now... So I think we should go above SOE head and try to give letters to the CEO of all Sony who knows maybe they will be like WTF did ya ll do to my money and give us our game back lol..
Kallaswone
Jedi Elder.
You are exactly what SOE/LA were hoping to target the game to when they created the NGE. People who WANTED to be with Solo, Luke, etc..
It isn't coincidental that thinking along those lines will attract a younger gaming population. Older players obviously will want to carve their own nitch in the universe as opposed to playing as the movie heroes.
I think it was fun to run into the heroes or villains(how you see things I guess) from the movies in the game. When I started I wanted to make a wookiee kinda like chewy(yes I know I am misspelling the names I am sorry I just can not seem to get them correct). I wanted to be able to fly my own space ship and make or repair things. Even got my wookiee to master artisan and master medic before I went down the creature handler path.
What I started wanting to be and what I ended up as was very different. What was fun for me though was the journey.
Being someone that has never posted before this was a step outwards of my normal forum creeping style, but regardless...
I bought SWG the day it came out, and much to my suprise I thought the game was actually a huge success. I thought the universe was unique, lively, and entertaining. I played the hunter type class, or blaster I suppose. I can't really remember, it's been so long..but anyway...I played it and grew a bit weary of the odd quirks of combat...so I went to the cantina and saw people all huddled around the musicians and dancers. I immediatly logged out and made a new character, a musician. Four hours later I had the most unique experiance in my MMORPG history, I really felt unique. I felt like everything I did was different, and like I people would remember me for being the musician that healed them at the cantina.
I can honestly say I never really quit SWG because I was bored of the music playing, I just quit because my RL got busy. I came back to the game recently on a free trial to realize the game was near dead. I went to the cantina to find two people, one of which was AFK. All the enjoyment I had in the game before was gone along with the luster that SWG had at release.
I suppose I just enjoyed being a unique person in a massive world, and that the idea of the "hero" or "villian" was just an idea that a small time musician couldn't dream of, in game that is. I liked the idea that I'd never deal with Luke, or Han, but perhaps I'd get to play for them or someone like them some day. Nevertheless, sad to see such a unique style of game change so drastically.
Fantastic and insightful thread.
I'd always taken SWG as a "universe" in which many things are happening in addition to the "main storyline." Granted we all may think of the films when someone mentions the phrase "Star Wars" but there was also a lot going on as well, and a lot of it isn't even mentioned (or is/was mentioned poorly) in the whole scheme of SWG.
Interacting with the main characters was an interesting if somewhat unfulfilling experience. I found myself more concerned with my own affairs rather than the storyline. That's to say that I took my perspective and definition of my character in the game as he would in the real life: fighting for survival, prestige, honor, and advancement, under the full belief that his time in history was the "most important era ever."
It was a self-centered approach, but it made the experience that more personal.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
I disagree with this.
I enjoyed playing as a 'nobody' and slowly builsing up my talents, armour, weapons, skills, money, business and houses so that when I started I was a Pistoleer/Smuggler with a CDEF pistol and a tiny house outside Bestine where I could hide from Worts and when I finished, three years later, I was a Jedi MLS/MDEF Heal 2XX2, an Imperial Ace with a yacht, a giant mining ship and a Royal Guard Tie Fighter, an Imperial Colonel with an ATST backup and I went to work in a Crimson Barc. from my three-Guild Hall compound guarded by my guild's own fort. I knew I'd made it when Darth Vader asked me personally to tidy up some problems he was having in the space over Kasshyyk.
That was the whole point of the game. Starting as a nobody and ending as a kick-ass hero who would have been played by Steve McQueen in the movie.
Well, there's really no right or wrong answer.
Just opinions. But I'm seeing a definite pattern here. And some awesome answers, varied even though they have similar underlying characteristics. I think I'll ask this question on the Crurrent forum as well, to see if the theory holds up.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
What made Pre-CU SWG such an enjoyable game for me was the huge array of choices I had each time I logged in. It didn't matter that you weren't a super hero. So many MMOs are all about the player being the hero and going on all these pre-scripted epic quests. The problem is, its the same exact thing for everyone else as well.
I mean in every MMO its the same old story. You are some young upstarp adventurer, usually in a world just shaken by some huge cataclysm, and you are pressed into service to defend your side. Along the way you do all these quests and become a great hero. Terrific, the only problem is everyone else has the exact same story as you. They have done the exact same heroic deeds as you and completed the exact same quests as you. There is no life, no originality. Nothing is unique to your character. You are just one of a thousand "heroes" questing in a static and unchanging world.
SWG was different. You weren't a hero, and you weren't destined to become one either. You were a regular person and what you became and what you did was entirely up to you. If you never once wanted to pick up a weapon or throw a punch you could do that. If you were the type to have a blaster glued to your hand from the moment you stepped your foot in the door you could do that too.
When you logged into to SWG you entered a living virtual world. There were no pre-scripted quest chains for you to follow. There was no max level for you to hit. You had to find your own way, and let me tell you it was a blast. Yeah sometimes it felt like work, having to log in and make the rounds on your harvestors, make sure the maintenence on your houses was paid, swing by the vehicle garage and fix your speeder, or go out and grind missions to earn some quick cash. And I'll also agree that sometimes the tasks seemed a bit too "everyday" for a video game, but overall it was a truly enjoyable experience. You could be whom ever you wanted to be and do what ever you wanted to do. In my opinion it was much better than anything any of these cookie cutter hero fantasy MMOs have come up with.
As a kid I was one of those people that enjoyed all of my StarWars Action figures, especially the 'nobodies', because I could make up the story.
I enjoyed reading the books about the people in the back ground. I realized that the "heroes" of the films were only the "heroes" because it was their story that had been told. What about person x on planet y that saved his family from slavery. Would he not be a hero.
That, to me, was the beauty of the game, the moment I logged in, it felt as if I was playing in a giant (to borrow the phrase) sandbox with a bucnh of old friends, playing with my star wars action figures. I could be the fat guy in the rancor pit who's pet was killed, I could be that guy in the corner of Jabba's palace. We were all the heroe's of our own stories. Which bring to mind the moment that I knew tha tI had found the game for me.
I had just logged in, shot a few little creatures, was running around when I stumbled upon a scout's campsite with a musician there playing, and people just hanging around talking. I said, "hey you can build campsites?! that is so cool." The scout said "so can you just go talk to a scout trainer. And to play an instrument go talk to a musician trainer." "Really I can do that?" I was incredulous, having only before played MMO's that set your path for you, to which the scout said "You can do anything you want."
I was hooked.
So it goes.
T
I never cared for being a major hero / character such as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader. Not even memorable minor characters like Wedge Antilles or General Veers.
There are more than enough Star Wars games where you are set as an invincible character that the fate of the galaxy literally rests on your shoulders. There more than enough times that Star Wars games are purely from the Rebel perspective, so on the rare occasions I get to play an Imperial I relish the experience. Jeez, how many times do I have to fly down the Death Star trench?
Anyways, when I got my feet wet in early SWG, I aimed for being an Imperial Stormtrooper. My goal was to attain the white armor and equip myself with the weapons from the movies (despite the lame stats they're given by SOE).
I was content to be a workhorse for the Empire. Getting the job done "where the rubber meets the road" in the galaxy. I was happy being an officer in the Stormtroopers... I was happy being a "Soldier for the Empire."
I wasn't an avid RP'er, but I took great pains to make a fitting background. I abhorred the "my home was destroyed, family wiped out by ___" or some other ridiculous beginnings. I made it simple and what seemed to be pretty unique compared to the profile's I read in the game.
My character was made to be a Clone in the Stormtroopers. He was in the last series of Clones that were made, trained, and fought during the Clone Wars, seeing service only during the last, violent phases of it. With Ep.II having been released, I made his appearance as close as possible to Temeura Morrison's / Jango Fett's likeness. But the catch was that he was much older by the time SWG takes place.
With about 2-1/2 decades of service, his entire life having been devoted to military service. Service encompassing the Grand Army of the Republic and the transition into the Galactic Empire's Stormtroopers. He had seen strife from the waning days of the Clone Wars. He had helped bring stability to problematic areas after the war and the transition of the galactic government. He served when the first spark of rebellion erupted, and continues to fight against it. He had seen many of his brothers from the Clone Wars die due to age or battle. He had seen the Stormtrooper ranks swell with regular people and different Clone templates. He still took pride of being a Clone from a glorious era of fighting, a stock who's numbers dwindled each day.
In his profile description, I made it sound like a military service record. He had been given a Alpha-Numeric designation. His "game name" was given by his Jedi General during the war... it was the only fitting way I could figure on having a Stormtrooper walking around with a normal name.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I much preferred just being "myself", as it were. I never wanted to be Luke, or Leia, or Han...sure, they were rolemodels--paragons to look up to and emulate. But actually BE them, or be around them 24/7? Hell, no. I had my own (virtual) life, and it suited me fine. My very first character was a Zabrak, wound up TK/Ranger/Medic, almost completely self-sufficient and living comfortably in the middle of nowhere on Dantooine. My friends would occasionally bitch about how far away I lived from the starports, but I'd just shrug; it made sense, RP-wise, for him to be there. When JtL came out, I skipped it--it didn't fit him. He had no desire to fly among the stars. His life was on the ground. He also avoided the GCW, save for one instance: a RL friend got hit pretty hard by some Imperials. So, he signed on with the Rebellion just long enough to even the score, then resigned. I left SWG for awhile then, bored and burnt out. Came back, picked up JtL, and had an absolute BLAST flying in space, dogfighting (strictly PvE, tyvm)...awesomeness. I was a Neutral again--a smuggler. Not a Han Solo, though...more like a Mal Reynolds, just staying one step ahead, trying to keep enough fuel in the tanks and food on the table. Endless fun...until I discovered that in order to advance as a PILOT, I had to grind through GROUND CONTENT (Jabba's Palace/themepark). Pissed off, I quit once again...and just missed the implementation of the CU.
When the NGE was announced, all I could do was shake my head in disbelief. That's neither here nor there, though, and off-topic to boot. In case you couldn't tell from the above long-windedness, I'm definitely NOT part of the crowd that wanted to fly alongside Red 5, or any of that crap. Like the OP, I "marinated" in the Star Wars Universe, and I absolutely f***ing loved it. I miss it still.