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Immaturity in online games
PrebThor
Member UncommonPosts: 452
I tried to get some feedback on this topic a few months back, but the thread didn't get the response I was hoping for and ended up in a troll fest, so I'm giving it another shot. Most - if not all - online games have very immature communities despite the fact that a lot of the players are - believe it or not - what we commonly refer to as "adults". Maturity obviously can't be measured in age, but more likely in a social intelligence test. Personally, I think this is both an interesting and very important topic and I know there are people out there who agree with me.
Now, here's my question: How can both game developers and players make the online game communities feel a bit more mature (or less immature, if you will)?
Knock yourselves out but try to keep it in a civilized manner. 
Comments
Most times in-game maturity strictly deals with courtesy of not looting kills, taking kills, bailing on groups and acting negatively but this isn't directly a resemblence of immaturity. Its who they are in and out of game displaying how they cannot be depended on. Thats what makes In-Game MMO's slightly realistic because if you hate someone in game they are generally playing a side to themselves people may or may not see in real life. Sometimes people commit cruel acts in game just because they cannot getaway with it in real life. So that directly stems from the person and if the goal was to stop this even though it can be occasionally frustrating I do not want to stop it because then you are making people fake in game just like they are fake out of game and present a image that really does not represent them but other people acknowledge them that way. Its a psychological thing man, something i'm adept in discussing. Also if you wanted to completely stop cursing or arguements... your just taking another feature away that makes the MMO world a WORLD with different personalities... now there might only be one solution though....
FREE WILL
If you could PvP someone and kill them for cursing you out, stealing your loot and kills like the old UO days than you might make people more hesitant to commit these undecent actions. The reason why people do it so much even people who down other people will have their occasions is that they can and will get away with it. MMO's like to ban players for negative behavior when they allow there to be no way to govern or stop it before it starts... why lose money if you could make the in-game trolls scared to be a troll there fore people will go better together.
This is just my opinion.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
An 18 and over age limit is the only semi-solution I see. The age limit would shed off a slight percentage from the under 18 crowd that are immature. People would get around it though.
At the same time not all under 18 are immature and not all over 18 are mature either. Odds are that a higher percentage under 18 are immature :P. You're not gonna be able to escape it though.
I'd preface this post with a question. If I were to knowingly do the immature thing when I knew what the mature thing was...am I an immature person?
Definitions of immature:
Now for me a game, especially one of this genre(MMOs) pushes one to truly break away from reality. You create an in-game avatar, you level it up and dress/customize it as you see fit. I say this because though I don't act immature for the most part, I know I have my moments where I could care less about the right thing to do. After working in a lab for 6 hours and then researching some problem associated with the lab work for an additional 4 hours; sometimes you just want to break loose. And, sadly enough, when I choose to break loose often coincides with when I've logged into the "virtual world," of my choosing.
Now I have the tool set availble to step back and view my actions of inappropriate (what you'll call immature) behavior, but I can choose to go down that path because of my personal desire.
The point I'm attempting to make (and failing) is that maybe immaturity is the wrong word to use when trying to qualify a community associated with something that asks you to to become something other than yourself to begin with. Everyone plays for his/her own reasons and maybe, sometimes people play to act like immature twats as a form of stress relief.
So, there really is no way for developers and players to make online communites feel more mature, unless you do as other have done in the past and enforce strict rules upon the community that inevitably drive away both the bad and good elements of said community. If I had to suffer through the rules of good etiquette at work only to PAY to play in a world that enforces those same rules...why bother. I'd also like to state that for me, maturity and common decency walk a very fine line. While not necessarily being one in the same, they are closely related.
**Not saying I act like an idiot on a constant basis, I just like knowing that once in a while you can without be slapped by rules and regulations...if that makes any sense.
Very good points by everyone so far.
As said above, define maturity.
Well basicly, maturity is "accepting responsibility for ones actions". The only thing that age had to do with Maturity is that one of the things in actually growing up, it the relization and acceptance of responsibility.
Now, what does this mean in game, that is the real question. IMHO this simply means that players that accept the responicibily for thei actions are acting mature and those that do not are being imature.
And example of this would be players in BF2 that have no intrest in grabing or guarding the flags or bottlenecks. Instead they are only intresting in padding their own score/kills ignoring what the team's needs are.
Ie: A sniper camping the spawn areas in a team game not to help the team but for easy kills is an imature player, while a sniper camping a flag or team accet for the purrpose of gardding these is a mature player .
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
Though most of the immature behavior in MMORPGs comes from junior high school kids with no social etiquette, I'd say that a good portion of immature behavior also comes from the 18+ crowd. Sure an 18+ server would help things a bit, but it would also penalize young players strictly because of their age. We have to remember that though there's a huge percent of MMORPG players who are 18+, we are talking about a medium that is primarily targeting 13-21 year olds. Though immaturity in MMORPGs frustrates me just as much as the next player, I think the easiest remedy is to find a guild or group of players that cater more to your age/social group. Sure, you'll get the occassional immature person in a PUG or whatever, but I think it's a healthier option than to expect devs to police who can and cannot play their game.
If you want people to act mature, you link their character profile to the account profile which lists their name, home town and a picture.
Seriously. The anonymity of the internet is a breeding ground for bad behavior because there's no way to hold someone accountable for his actions.
That is an extremely valid point. Although due to how psychotic people have grown to be at this day in time if you PK someone in game they might check your profile out drive to your house and kidnap your wife.... It might seem unlikely to some people but nothing is unlikely anymore. Asian and UK scammers run rabid on all auction sites including craigslist which is a classfieds and nothing is done about it. Viruses and spyware are spread all around the web. Movies are stripped and shown for free before they spend an entire 24 hours in theatres... Music is exchanged to P2P programs like limewire with little to no consequence. 2000 missing people every year never found ..... Sometimes its hard to believe how many people will go to HELL in the christian sense but thats why internet stuff is so anonymous to prevent criminal actions even though it tends to allow a fair share.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
So true. Add to that the fact that most MMOGs are based around getting the "best loot" and being the "biggest, baddest dude" around that people get greedy, selfish, obstinate, and rude. That is why I want to see more focus on the character progression in the world and not what the character can loot. That is to say more focus on crafting, trade, and politics in the world, like becoming a governor or something along that lines. Also, add to that PvP that has consequences based on player and/or GM actions.
AKA - Bruxail
the point to playing any game is to have fun and enjoy it (i think everyone knows this). some people like to screw around and have there fun that way. others like to take the game more serious and play it seriously. then you got the ones who are in the middle like me. everyone has there own definition of what makes someone immature. i think someone is immature when they continuously say stupid crap even when everyone tells them to stop. nothin wrong with sayin random things but when someone tells you to stop you need to stop cause its not funny anymore unless your 12 or immature.
to solve all the immaturity we all need to do either one of two things. either keep with your people who have the same level of maturity or immaturity or when you play with someone who is more or less mature you need to respect that and dont piss them off. its that simple yet some people cant handle it.
Great feedback. Yes, the word "immaturity" should probably be swapped for "common decency / etiquette" to clear things up a bit. I am 25 years old, I am by no means an angel myself in-game and am fully aware that players play games in order to escape from real life (and possibly getting into character / roleplaying). I'm not asking for a carebear utopia (or a Nazi-regime for that matter), but I really think that game developers should put more effort into giving their games a good vibe basically. Example: Setting the tone by giving "kind reminders" on players' loading screens, encouraging common decency, etc. All in reasonable amounts, of course. Would it be going too far to remind players that being total a--holes just might make them less popular in the long (or in most cases short) run? The games themselves should contribute to this, not only the players (besides, we're not the parents). At the end it all comes down to money and ANY customer is a good customer, but is one bad customer worth losing several good customers? In any other business one would think that the good customers would be prioritized over the bad one, but in the gaming world a rude player REALLY has to go to extreme measures in order to even get a warning. I find that rather frustrating...
Wrong. Simply because your over 18 doesnt mean you are mature. I quit my last MMO last year when I was 15, and people thought I was in my 20's. I know alot of people under 18 who are immature, and I know alot of people over 18 who are immature. The only thing to really get rid of immature people is to make a guild and make sure no one without a sense of maturity can get in. At least that will solve some of your problem.
-Reduce Negative Perceptions - it's proper etiquette to not take other people's kills, but not everyone knows that, and there are times where people wants help... I've seen some of my new friends play, and they don't know that, so they think they're helping when they attack a monster that someone else is already attacking... Now I will use Tabula Rasa. In this game the mentality is us versus them (the bane/aliens). So it's not so bad, I don't mind people attacking the same thing as me as much, because the experience is split appropriately and the perception is different: rather than that spawn is mine! it's our enemy!
- Close Community - This definitely reduces the immature acts... You most likely wouldn't act like a jackass infront of your close friends right? However, towards strangers, you feel like you have less responsibilities... In big communities, or big groups or today's guilds, it's really impersonal, and people are more incline to act immature. While in small groups, people the player have seen or played with often, the player is more likely to act mature... This is why I think the game should be focused more on small groups rather than having large guilds and alliances...
I don't think it's possible to stop all immature acts, but I certainly believe that it can be reduced to a great extent...
I equate immaturity with the inability to handle a social situation, and that includes greed in MMOs. If you're playing a solo game, take all you want, have fun. The computer won't care. But so many people enter the social environment of an MMO and continue playing as if it's a solo game. Everyone else is there for their advancement and enjoyment. These are the people that roll on everything, say "I need that" at every turn, that bail from a group as soon as they've gotten what they wanted.
Now, I'll admit these social "rules" go out the window depending on the server type. A free-for-all PVP server should not be considered to have these social graces -- it's essentially a giant deathmatch. But when the server is more of a social experience, I always wish for better interaction among players. It always seems the internet brings out the worst in people, as noted before -- anonymity without fear of punishment turns your average joe into a rabid three year old.
So what can be done? I've seen other post about paying more for a "mature" server, and I think it has some merit. True, I'd have to pay more, but if I enjoy the game that much more because of it, it may be worth it. The additional cost by itself will turn away most that don't care what the community is like. The additional money could go toward a few extra GMs on the server. Now, I won't claim that this will solve all the problems, but I'd like to see one of the big games try it out as an experiment. Maybe the truth will be that as people get bored with the game they become more immature and care a bit less about the community regardless of the fact that they are on a "mature" server... or maybe the community would be stronger and more closely knit than the "normal" servers.
Again, the biggest issue with MMORPGs is that people either a) don't know how to act socially, or b) continue to play MMORPGs like solo games. Maybe those points are one in the same.
I have been playing mmorpgs for a good while now... When i first started playing "The Realm" By Sierra immaturity was not a problem at all, when i moved onto asherons call it was not a problem, untill about 1 or 2 years into it... I quit Asherons call because of the immature community. Now i just join guilds who have a mature laid back attitude and i dont usualy pay attention to the public channels.
There are a few solutions to the maturity problem, 1 could be limiting age (i know that a good way to cut back on the young crowd would be to require a credit card, of course many youngsters would still get in because of their parents credit cards). Of course Age is not the only way to determine maturity, i have played with 12 year olds who are more mature than some 40 year olds i have played with. so is the age of the players that much of a factor on a mature community?
The only real solutiuon i can see i having a rating system for players to moderate their own. If you are kind and dont ninja loot and help out people who require it, they send in a positive vote for you. If you steal someones kill or you lure mobs to them and get them killed (intentionaly) you get a nevative vote. After awhile you get a rank of some sort. Depending on your rank you can or cannot speak in certian channels or perhaps you get a flag over your head. This way you can be shunned by your fellow players. If you see someone coming who has a "ninja looter" flag beside your head (or on your portriat after you have selected the user). That way you know to watchout for this guy. Perhaps each type (positive feedback or negative) can watch the others channels but cannot communicate unless through PM (that way trading could continue.
That is a rough idea, just came up with it, but i am sure youy get the idea. We use ratings all over the web to display weather people are positive or negative, why not incorperate it into the game somehow so that people will feel like they can be more accepted in the cummunity by being mature and helping other people.
Anyways it's early so i am going back to reading instead of typing
Wrong. Simply because your over 18 doesnt mean you are mature. I quit my last MMO last year when I was 15, and people thought I was in my 20's. I know alot of people under 18 who are immature, and I know alot of people over 18 who are immature. The only thing to really get rid of immature people is to make a guild and make sure no one without a sense of maturity can get in. At least that will solve some of your problem.
I mention in my second paragraph that not all 18 and under are immature :P. You have to agree though that a higher percentage of immaturity comes from teenagers or college students.
It all depends on the individual as well. Unfortunately it only takes one bad apple to taint an age group or in many cases a race or nationality. In my experience the majority of immature people that I have run into have been in the college age and below. I also have run into some in the mid to high 20s and 30s.
I completely agree that a guild is a great way to filter the immature out
The way I see it is that people are free to act the way they please in an mmo, if it was immature behavior, then he will suffer the consequences by the way other people view him. If you really don't want to listen to them put them on your ignore list and your done with it. I think if they banned anything but proper, good mannered behavior, that the community of the game would be rather quiet, tense, and far to close knit.
I don't really support immature behavior, but I think it should be left up to the player how he wants to act in the game. Another thing is ive come across people who actually roleplay an immature character in games which I think is very intresting and should be considered a valid personallity in an mmo. My dad did the same back in SWG pre-cu, the man is 48 years old, and he would go around into cantina's calling dancers hoes, not tipping, insulting musicians, all that stuff. It was just part of the game for him.
Even if they did make a game 18++, kids could just have their parents create and manage the account. That and you would be banning a good amount of people who are under 18, but still are capable of maintaing great behavior in an mmo. I think it just needs to be accepted, or ignored.
Wrong. Simply because your over 18 doesnt mean you are mature. I quit my last MMO last year when I was 15, and people thought I was in my 20's. I know alot of people under 18 who are immature, and I know alot of people over 18 who are immature. The only thing to really get rid of immature people is to make a guild and make sure no one without a sense of maturity can get in. At least that will solve some of your problem.
I mention in my second paragraph that not all 18 and under are immature :P. You have to agree though that a higher percentage of immaturity comes from teenagers or college students.
It all depends on the individual as well. Unfortunately it only takes one bad apple to taint an age group or in many cases a race or nationality. In my experience the majority of immature people that I have run into have been in the college age and below. I also have run into some in the mid to high 20s and 30s.
I completely agree that a guild is a great way to filter the immature out
Yeah sorry lol. Its just that I've seen SO many threads about how people under 18 are so incredibly immature that I'm getting sick of it lol. And yes I agree that the majority of immature people are in their teens, but still, there are many above.
I agree, in general, that guilds can be a moderating influence for most players. There are exceptions. Some of the biggest jerks that I have met online are people from hard-core raiding guilds (also, some of the nicest and most helpful people are from those same guilds...I am not trying to slam raiding guilds).
I heard someone the other day on a chat channel in EQ2 arguing that the first to the mob deserves to get it, even if another group is clearing out the trash to get to the boss. He was in a major guild. He had no problem tagging behind another group and then taking the named mob while the other group was finishing off the trash in the area. He thought that it was just smart strategy.
Is being a selfish, self-absorbed jerk being immature? If so, I have met a lot of immature people in MMORPGs, and I don't think that "play nice" signs will make a difference.
Immaturity in MMOs can have many reasons.
1. Target audience of the game is younger audience. Generally I found players in GW often rude, aggressive, non communicative and dirty language. IMO the fact that its free attracts many kids who need no bank accout or ask their parents to pay a monthly fee. On the other hand complexer games like EQ2 have less "aggro kid speech".
2. Its easy to harrass people if you sit behind a screen, anonymous and safe.
3. IMO harsh penalities and adding too competitve features (a lot of rare loot and hard to gain things) you create an atmosphere of envy, greed and frustration. I think a lot of agression in VG (and I mean A LOT im my time there) was the result of the very competitve nature of the game. Easygoing people are the results of more easygoing games. The more you give people the impression they have a lot to loose, the more agitated people become. This works with humans in EVERY environment. The idea pressure brings people together is a myth. The contrary is true. Only pre-existing, personally known communities are brought together by pressure.
4. Simplified gameplay attracts a lot of mindless people. Especially PVP centered games, where point 3 comes as additional focus - competition and agression. PVP heavy games with very simple mechanics attract those aggressive male teens with their aggro spreech and anti-social behavior. I dont need to elaborate, you know those type of guys (if not you are one of them!). WOW for instance is relatively simple and attracts a young audience. However, it is "saved" from too extreme immaturity to a degree with the "cute" cartoony design and the relatively social places (with NPC kids playing chase and all the stuff), so it gives a bad stage for REALLY aggro behavior, it makes the world feel more "harmless". (I guess thats why a lot of women and parents play WOW.)
5. Watching too much TV. Too many people now speaking and acting like they were Gangsta Rappers or some kind of stuff, feeling "manly and cool" by acting as rude as possible. Sounds unrealistic? I think TV DOES socialize people.
6. Finally, a lot of MMOs are relatively bad designed. More or less ALL MMOs we currently have. The worse the design, the greater the frustration of players, and frustrated people vent it off on others. Along with overhyping this leads to an atmosphere of even greater frustration. (See the entire VERY aggressive debate between players that happend around Vanguard.) Or said in other words: better MMOs would make players happier and usually happy people are not aggressive.
7. All those aggressive people didnt have sex for a too long time. ... Err... forget I said that...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There are a lot of older people who are immature. We are all immature to an extent. I bet you would be suprized how man of those people talking in leet speek in WoW and other games were actually adults. Everyone matures at a differnt rate depending on their enviroment, their responcibilities, and how they handle them. There is no way to make sure a game will be filled with people who want to help eachother and talk like adults.
I encourage immaturity in online games.
it's a game,
entertainment,
leave the seriousness at the door or start evaluating your life
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
While I find allot of leet speak anoying it's not even in the same league with the profanity / racist comments offenders.
How to curtaill this behavior?
From day one of launch you strictly enforce policies you have in place. Suggestive or vulgar character names, profanity, and racist nonesense has no place in an MMO...period.
In the good ole days a community would police itself. These days you simply can't rely on that method.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I generally don't mind immaturity except that it's really annoying to deal with the drama in guilds. Thats one of the reasons I like to solo and do small group content. Fighting with people over loot rights, DKP, and other nonense is not my idea of a fun time.
I also believe that you need to show some curtesy to other people. A lot of the time people say and do things that could hurt other people and only think of themselves. Even in a game you need to show respect for you fellow man and treat others as you would have them treat you.
Do you find this in level based games? cause that's the only place I find it, I was interested if you base this solely on your experience in level based games?
I think it comes from someone lvl 30 thinking he's cooler than a lvl 20. Or someone with UberBoss loot, compared to someone with PushoverBoss loot. It happens all the time in WoW, in eve it's not really like that, even though back in the day this one guy would continually remind everyone he had caldari battleship 5, no one cared since it's not a level in the traditional sense.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end