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What IS cheating in a MMO?
uncus
Member UncommonPosts: 528
After reading the article on goldsellers and many of the replies, I have to ask,"What IS cheating in a MMO?"
Is it using ANY 3rd party programs? Is Clicksaver in AO cheating? Are the myriad of add-ons for WoW cheating?
Is it having a faster connection? Is a LPG cheating?
Is buying gold to bypass some of the grind cheating?
If cheating is defined as "using anything to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent", then what advantages are "fair" and what are "unfair"?
In a PvE game, since the other players aren't opponents, are there more advantages - even buying gold, for example - that are "fair"?
In a PvP centric game, is every 3rd party program, every strategy involving NPCs "cheating"?
I'm curious to see the communities opinions on this - What is cheating?
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Comments
Speed hacking is cheating...
And buying gold I would say is cheating too, though it doesn't really affect me.
Well, it kinda does, because it encourages those gold selling assholes to spam me with /tell and group invites to try to sell me their gold.
Anything not sanctioned by the Devs is cheating.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Is it still cheating if both players are speed hacking? or if "everybody" is? I really want to see an intelligent debate on this - if possible
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I agree with Sramota. Anything that the devs did not intend for the game.
Mirrim
Chanter, Spatalos Server
I agree with you. I think more Devs/Producers/whoever actually runs the game, need to make official statements about what add-ons, etc are allowed and what aren't. Then, they should link to them so that everyone has equal access to them.
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Cheating is doing anything that isn't strictly provided by the developers and the game application itself.
A lot of stuff is included in that area that I would still call cheating, but that I personally still don't really 'care' about, because its the small fry of cheating.
For example, looking up maps and mob locations on the internet or using guide books is cheating, however I'm not going to go on a crusade against it because it aint worth it. The only cheating I care about is some extreme 3rd party application stuff 'hacks', dupes, and paying for leveling services/items with RL money.
I agree with you. I think more Devs/Producers/whoever actually runs the game, need to make official statements about what add-ons, etc are allowed and what aren't. Then, they should link to them so that everyone has equal access to them.
Just because they choose not to enforce a rule doesn't mean they endorse it. Most police officers will not pull over for going 5mph over the speed limit but it's still against the law.
It's not the job of a games developers/producers to keep track of and moniter the entire aftermarket for the playerbase. Its their job to produce and develope the game. Rules regarding use of aftermarket software/services are generally laid out in the ToS and EULA that everyone who plays not only has access to but must sign off on before they are allowed to play.
Like others have already mentioned; Cheating is breaking the rules set by the makers and publishers of the game.
One of my pet peeves are people who break rules because..
A: They feel they are entitled to it or that the rule doesn't apply to them.
B: They think the rule is dumb.
C: "Everyone does it anyway"
Cheating is when You play the game some others ways than game developers did mean to. Gaining benefit over other players by something what isn't part of game design is also cheating. Example buying game gold with real money, when it's not part of game design it self.
If You think that You action may be cheating, it usually is.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
I wouldn't call 3rd party mods cheating if the devs don't mind it being there. There are tons of mods for WoW as an example. I wouldn't say that is cheating. Or something like click-saver is cool too. Who wants to go on repetitive instance missions and not know what the prize loot is? Any botting or spending RL money to better your character I would consider cheating.
If you can find a way to do it, it's not cheating.
If what you're doing makes the game suck for others, it's bad programming.
- Phos
All good replies so far.
The intent of the developers pretty much encompassses what is cheating and what is not. Some things are specifically outlined in the EULA, while others are part of the basic design philosophy. Multi boxing for instance can't be controlled effectively, so there is little point for listing it in the EULA. Multiboxing still is considered cheating by most though.
Multi boxing would be an example of cheating which doesn't follow design philosophy. Most MMOG's intent is that each character represent a unique real person. Gods and Heroes and Guild Wars have designs which allow for pet type characters to aid your main, but boxing two mains would be cheating. Basically when you multibox you are making yourself more powerful than design intended since you don't have to split the rewards with another real person, wether it's sharing experience gained or items/coin earned. If a MMOG intended multiboxing to be part of the design, they would allow two characters to be controlled by a single account.
Is using Windower in Final Fantasy XI so I can talk here while healing, cheating? I don't know.
For those who don't know, Windower is a third party program that launches Final Fantasy XI in windowed mode since Final Fantasy XI doesn't support windowed mode.
<p>Cheating is simply not following the rules stated in the EULA, especialy the one with give you an benifit. This does not always mean buying money or using 3rd party program (Depending on the program) is cheating it depence on the EULA. In WoW cheating is Buying money, however I belive you can use macro's (Not sure on this one) and differand interfaces.</p>
<p> </p>
If you are not using a 3rd party program which benefits you ingame, then no it's not cheating. Some companies don't care though and sniff and ban for any 3rd party program because they can't be bothered to figure out which are harmless and which are not.
Nah its the player not bothering to read the EULA. It normaly does say ANY 3rd party program. So even the harmless ones.
If someone is better than me they are obviously cheating.
Cheating is defined by the policies of the owners, and vary from game to game. In most MMORPGs, buying gold or other virtual items from an outside source is considered cheating. In Ultima Online and on EQ2's Exchange servers, it isn't, and the official forums have sections set aside for real-money trading. Likewise, some game add-ons are allowed, and others are considered cheating
Games have rules. Breaking the rules is called cheating. If everybody breaks the rules, it may be even, but it's still cheating until the rules are changed to allow it.
Interesting take. Although I don't multi box I wouldn't consider it cheating. As far as I know there is no stipulation that only allows for one paid account per user. So long as both accounts are paid for I don't see any problem. It doesn't seem to me that you would have any greater advantage than 2 or more people sitting in the same room playing on separate accounts and I don't think of that as cheating.
I think the Dev's primary goal is to make a game enjoyable enough so that people are willing to buy it and pay to play it. I would think that if someone enjoyed it enough to buy a second account the Dev's would consider that a testament to how good the game is. Am I missing something?
Is this a serious reply? If it is, I would not call that cheating unless running a game in a window gives an unatural advantage... I don't think it does.
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Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
Different degrees of cheating IMO, from the worst offense to the least:
1- Altering the programming of the game or using 3rd party programs to enhance your gaming performances. Ventrilo isn't cheating even if I don't use it, since it is outside of the game, but it is borderline.
2- Doing something after a member of the staff clearly let you know you it is prohibited.
3- Doing a prohibited action without having received any warning, yet knowing fully it is prohibited.
4- Doing a prohibited action but not knowing it. Note that TESTING it is not cheating; but testing doesn't require you to do it 3 times before you report it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is pretty much how I feel, too. I've heard a lot of people try and justify manipulating a bug by saying that if the developers made it that way, it's fine to use it until they fix it. Right. Blame devs for not being able to account for every little thing. Such bollocks. It's just plain dishonest. I almost never believe those people who cry ignorance when they're caught, either. They know what they're doing.
If you make excuses and blame others for your own actions and don't take responsibility for them, your still in the wrong.
- Archeus
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Interesting take. Although I don't multi box I wouldn't consider it cheating. As far as I know there is no stipulation that only allows for one paid account per user. So long as both accounts are paid for I don't see any problem. It doesn't seem to me that you would have any greater advantage than 2 or more people sitting in the same room playing on separate accounts and I don't think of that as cheating.
I think the Dev's primary goal is to make a game enjoyable enough so that people are willing to buy it and pay to play it. I would think that if someone enjoyed it enough to buy a second account the Dev's would consider that a testament to how good the game is. Am I missing something?
I think you are. Personally I find it disheartening to encounter what appears to be a group of players, engage them, only to discover that they are soulless bots being played by a single person. It's an immersion killer.
As a primarily soloer, I also take offense to other soloers who artificially enhance their power and abilities thru multiboxing. If you choose to solo, the benefit is you don't have to share what you earn or gain, and you are self reliant, but you lose the benefit of other classes and skills, spells, etc.. That is the design trade off, to be limited to your class and your set of skills. Multiboxers however circumvent that design philosophy. They want the benefits of soloing, yet use bots to access other skills, spells, etc. in order to increase their power. It's cheating.
Multiboxers don't enjoy the game more than traditional players. They enjoy gaining an advantage over other players. Like I said, if it was intended to be part of the game design, then a single account would be able to control multiple characters at once.