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In the works for Vanguard
Thamoris
Member UncommonPosts: 686
The Ancient Port Warehouse
Hey guys,
Since we’re still a little time away from actually getting most of you to set foot inside the Ancient Port Warehouse, I wanted to give you all an update on where we are, what we’ve been working on, and why it’s worth waiting for.
The APW Overview –
* APW is a challenging dungeon experience.
* APW is made up of 5 wings. These scale in challenge and target audience.
* Every NPC in the dungeon has unique ability rules and ability sets.
* There are 18 unique boss encounters within APW.
APW has a max size of 12?
The Ancient Port Warehouse has always been intended for 12 man raiding parties, and I think that will be evident when you step foot inside. We did do some initial testing with 24 and 18 man groups and the performance simply wasn’t at a level we were happy with for gameplay. As performance increases our max raid size is something we’re going to continue to evaluate, but in the meantime the first raid experience will be targeted and locked to 12 people.
So the APW isn’t instanced, what does this mean?
Well, really, it means two things –
1. Yes, there will be a lot of contested content. If you want to kill everything, you’re going to have to be able to beat the competition.
2. We have included some content that is more accessible to all. Our entry wing has bosses with much shallower loot tables, meaning that most guilds will kill them a handful of times then move on. In addition, it will be possible to attempt ‘challenges’ (basically spawnable versions of certain bosses), and after you’ve completed enough of these challenges you will get a reward. This means that even if all bosses are dead, there will be something to do.
Is the loot going to be worth it?
This is can be a fine line to walk, but our itemization guy, Silas ‘Cylus’ Morse, is hard at work looking at all of the items that are currently sought after on live and using that information in his design for our APW items. In addition we have a new tier of items that represent items gained from doing multiple group encounters. Without spoiling anything, Silas has been talking about some really cool stuff, and I know I’m looking forward to seeing what comes out of here.
What’s taking so long?
In addition to creating all of our abilities (over 300 at the time of this post), we are doing a great deal of balancing and tuning. We’ve been experimenting with population density and fight time – we’ve been looking at how mitigation and resource regeneration interact with long and challenging fights, and we’ve been making sure each major fight has something for each archetype to do. There will also be new raid UI and functionality delivered along with the dungeon.
In terms of real numbers we’re close to locking down all creation of new content, and then we’ll be doing further testing and QA on the dungeon before we wrap it up and get it to live servers.
Conclusion
Elionia and I have been in touch and we are in the process of getting a more flavorful (lore, screenshots, boss and item sneak peek) preview of APW created in the time between now and the dungeon going live. However, in the meantime I hope this post helps communicate exactly what’s going on with regards to some of the new and exciting content we have in the works here for you all. If you have any other questions or concerns I’ll be lurking around and am more than happy to answer any questions I can to the best of my ability.
Andrew Krausnick
Game Designer
Sony Online Entertainment, LLC
I'm not much into raiding since I seldom have enough time to dedicate to it BUT this does look like some nice additions. I did notice there will be some content for small groups as well.
I particularly like the fact that they are promoting competition ... I'm sure this will lead to some camping, but that is part of the game for those who want the best loot.
Play Vanguard ! The game that sucks less then the rest !
Comments
Translation:
Thanks to our genious coding, whenever more than 12 people load into one area, the game breaks.
Translation:
Thanks to our genious coding, whenever more than 12 people load into one area, the game breaks.
More than twelve people would produce too much lag.This by far!...not the first mmo to have this issue. Only those with simple , dumbed down graphics and mechanics can handle large numbers of people fighting on the screen at once.
You forget...mmorpg's are not an exact science..not by a long shot. It is very difficult and demanding to make a persistant world as large as Vanguard ..particularly with the level of detail and complexity of Vanguard.
Your sarcasim is neither orignal nor is it clever. In fact...it's cliche and predictable. If you don't like Vanguard...I don't understand why you bother posting in Vanguard threads. Are you one of those people that just enjoy griefing other peoples game?
I like playing Vanguard...glad to see the continued updates and look forward to enjoying the new content.
For many people this wont be great where high end multiperson raiding is the best thing eva. I also see it as a failure for VG to handle many people in one area at once, I remeber the performance in the beta starting area was baaaad. It would have been better to find a balance between grapahics and elements such as this. I think this is evidence VG missed the balance in favour of grpahics. The lack of a decent scalable engine doesnt help either.
Also i got to say advanced mechanics VG ? I missed that when I tried it. Performance was that bad
Your right about WoW though. the graphics pitched at such a level that it opened up piossiblities like multiman raiding. Agian part of WoW insipid horrid but inspired genius was to do the low poloygon count and cartoony feel.
I don't know about the performance as it is obvious that you could encounter 1 2 maybe 3 or more raids when you are in the non-instanced dungeon.
It would be alot different if those raids are 12,18 or 24 people. In my example for meeting 1 to 3 raids.
12 man raid. Would mean that you are in lowest example 24 people and highest 48
24 man raid. -- 48 to 72 people.
There is more difference between 48 and 72 people then it is on 12 or 24 people.
I'm not shure here but uhm 12 people as the top maximum would not leave much room for the other groups to be there at same time, now would it. Think there is more into it then just blatantly lolling over the cap for raidgroups would be 12 man, that as in saying lol the game don't support more then 12 man on screen.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Translation:
Thanks to our genious coding, whenever more than 12 people load into one area, the game breaks.
It is very difficult and demanding to make a persistant world as large as Vanguard ..
Nah, it's easy to do that when the world is mostly empty.
(Sorry, couldn't help myself)
Well, really, it means two things –
1. Yes, there will be a lot of contested content. If you want to kill everything, you’re going to have to be able to beat the competition.
2. We have included some content that is more accessible to all. Our entry wing has bosses with much shallower loot tables, meaning that most guilds will kill them a handful of times then move on. In addition, it will be possible to attempt ‘challenges’ (basically spawnable versions of certain bosses), and after you’ve completed enough of these challenges you will get a reward. This means that even if all
bosses are dead, there will be something to do.
This has the potential for bringing back the worst elements of Everquest. The wilful and intentional
blocking of guilds or groups from progressing. This design will drive many more people away from
the game because whichever guild/group gets geared first on a server, will have an advantage over
subsequent groups and can and will block their advancement.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The decision not to instance this thing is probably the dumbest one they have made yet for VG... and that's saying something, given all the other dumb moves they have already made with this game.
C
I played non-instanced content for over 3 years in Horizons and found it creates some interesting dynamics. It was even harder in that game because other players could actualy jump into combat and take your kill. I saw guilds try to control certain things and they did...for awhile. After a few months though...their rep would be so bad they couldn't get anything made...nobody would trade with them and they were ridculed everywhere they went...eventualy leading to said guilds demise. That has been my experience...dunno if it will play out like that in Vanguard though. Only time will tell...but that too is part of the fun..for me.
I found that the players start policing the situation themselves. Griefers and griefing guilds get black listed...in pvp ..other guilds will ally themselve together to break up any attempts to " control " high end loot. The same goes for PvE to a lesser extent. Extreme cases of griefing guilds and players will find themselves unable to find other players to craft for them and such.
I have no problem with competition. I don't think everyone should have access to the most rare loot....only those that can/ and do play for it should have it. If I want it...then I need to figure out a way to get it. That is part of the fun. If I want something..and have to play hard to get it....good ! that means not everyone on the server is going to have it and makes it all that much more rewarding !
There is such a large variety of loot and player made goods in game that if one can't raid the new content it by no means said person can not compete. Vanguard isn't WoW.....yet anyways. If that IS the direction they go with this...then yes...It would indeed be upsetting for me. So far though... I don't see that happening. The best gear in game is player made atm and I don't forsee that changing.
Translation:
Thanks to our genious coding, whenever more than 12 people load into one area, the game breaks.
Naw, what this means is that there is no need to program for groups larger than 12 people, as only 12 people are on a server at any one time.
You know there are simliar games to Vanguard that has instanced dungeons. And actually something of the Vanguard game is that you don't have instanced dungeons and that is one reason to like Vanguard for some people. I for one hope they won't do to much instances if they even will do one.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Screenshots do look nice. Every wing of the warehouse has multiple levels. You can use the elevators or sort of teleporters. They guy who made the screens said, that the one wing is 1-2 hours deep without killing mobs. The wing is in development and has no mobs yet. In the other wings he died 36 times from 53+ raid mobs, but no wing is completely filled with mobs yet. Telon dimensions
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10006779@N07/
Oh.. for the haters. Yes, some mobs have no heads. I am almost sure they will have heads in the final version
I don't understand what the problem is with there being a preformance issue with over 12 man raid groups. According to most posts you're lucky to meet 3 people face to face in 12 hours of gaming in Vanguard anyway! After the server merge getting a 12 man group might be viable if you have school holidays in the USA and China on the same day, otherwise I don't think there's much to be concerned about.
Besides if/when SOE release this I'm sure there'll be another double XP weekend and maybe a few freebies to loyal players as an incentive to log on and raid. Perhaps something like elder unicorns or neon coloured boats, maybe they'll include helmets in the loot drops as a suprise? And if that bloke in Mongolia logs on aswell you might get a group into double figures!
VANGUARD, THE GAME THAT'S POLISHED LESS THAN THE REST!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Better make them alts and trull some.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
And that is a very revealing statement... "That's part of the fun." OK, it is for you.
But you have to understand that for most players, going through that level of overhead is not pleasant in a game whose purpose is to relax and have fun. You have to understand that this will NOT be considered fun by most players, just as complications are NOT considered fun by most players.
And the question is, with Vanguard already (by their own admission) losing 10-30% of their subs per month, can they afford to keep adding stuff to the game that appeals to such a teeny-tiny segment of the MMO game audience?
I stand by what I said. It was dumb not to instance this. They're going to regret it, I am quite sure.
C
Better make them alts and trull some.
MUAH HAH HAH, good good! I can feel the hate gathering inside you, use your anger it makes you powerfull! Now strike me down and your journey to the darkside shall be complete!
VG THE GAME THAT PERFORMS LESS THAN THE REST?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Better make them alts and trull some.
MUAH HAH HAH, good good! I can feel the hate gathering inside you, use your anger it makes you powerfull! Now strike me down and your journey to the darkside shall be complete!
VG THE GAME THAT PERFORMS LESS THAN THE REST?
TBH my care only stretches as far as to [Post Message]
Sorry.
Still there are people resubbing to SWG, isn't that abit awkward.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Saying that people are resubbing to SWG is a bit like saying "A guy in Nicaragua said he's bought some platform shoes and three yellow nylon shirts with purple collars and cuffs, so it must be coming back into fashion!".
I'm certain people are resubbing to VG as they've stated on these forums, however Vanguard retains players like a Nun retains her first curry! SWG was in free fall for a long time and leveled off at a very low population and has shown no evidence of a significant increase since then. VG has been plummeting for 7 months now and to be honest can't fall for much longer without reaching zero, as for a recovery well patients with Leprosy rarely recover and Smedley is no Mother Teresa!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
This is going to be the most non-challenging content ever!
With 50 group in one place, there is no challenge, i hope they add a ticket taker.
And please don’t try to tell me that watching for a spawn for 5 hours is challenging.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Hasnt this happened before in EQ?
... Cant people just leave this game alone? i mean yes it's pretty bad, (infact very bad.) but leave those few that do enjoy it to get on with their game without wilfully leaping on the flame wagon every time they try and post something in their own section. Its not like they are trying to post it in our personal favorate game forums. Looks like at least they are making an effort to progress.
Good luck with the raid dungeon, I hope it works out for you
I didn't compare to VG in any way. I said that your defence over at SWG forums was failing. Now go back and defend. As SoE/SWG is the culprit of things.
http://www.xfire.com/cms/xstatics_2007_june/
http://www.xfire.com/cms/xstatics_2007_may/
But anyway besides from you I actually can show some signs for making my argument, you just use same flame and trolling done the last 1½ or so year.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
It's like how people put their pets to sleep when they're too expensive to be rescuscitated: People have an inherent sadistic streak in them that manifests itself when it's justified out of convenience/arrogance.
While I like pets, I dislike multimillion dollar failures due to shitty management and incompetence. While some people of the vanguard team are truly spectacular, others don't deserve to lick the piss off of a public restroom's toilet seat.
So, yeah.. I'll kick and spit on the piece of crap called Vanguard that cheated several dozen or so out of jobs and a hundred thousand or so people out of their money, although it was the latter's fault for buying it in the first place (I belong to that category).
If you're enjoying Vanguard, then great, but don't try to rationalize it. WoW, CoV/CoH, EQ2, etc. are not dumbed down versions of your game with inferior graphics, but working games with more features and content per surface area than you will ever see.
... QQ!
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I'm enjoying my initial time in VG but honestly, when Brad first started hyping VG and it's non-instanced content, I had to shake my head. There's a reason non-instanced dungeons are nearly extinct now. Brad's hype just brought back all the bad memories and nightmares of EQ1. I invest my money and time to PLAY (play = game = having fun) not standing in a damn line for hours on end before it's my group's turn. Don't dare tell me instances "breaks your immersion, QQ" yet standing in line for hours to kill a respawning world boss is just so immersive, so realistic. Puh-leez.
On the one hand, I am looking forward to someday seeing this for myself, because I've never seen non-instanced dungeons done right. On the other hand, reading the designer's notes gives me the distinct impression that this isn't going to be done right either.
Vanguard: Yesterday's game for tomorrow's hardware. Now *that's* a QQ...
Translation:
Thanks to our genious coding, whenever more than 12 people load into one area, the game breaks.
More than twelve people would produce too much lag.This by far!...not the first mmo to have this issue. Only those with simple , dumbed down graphics and mechanics can handle large numbers of people fighting on the screen at once.
You forget...mmorpg's are not an exact science..not by a long shot. It is very difficult and demanding to make a persistant world as large as Vanguard ..particularly with the level of detail and complexity of Vanguard.
Your sarcasim is neither orignal nor is it clever. In fact...it's cliche and predictable. If you don't like Vanguard...I don't understand why you bother posting in Vanguard threads. Are you one of those people that just enjoy griefing other peoples game?
I like playing Vanguard...glad to see the continued updates and look forward to enjoying the new content.
Although I find the guy who argue with you to be too harsh...what you say is not really true. I HATE raiding and would rathe not see it for design reasons, but let's check this precise point without my personnal tastes to raiding.
See, the lag can be limited, if you limit the amount of data exchanges between the server and the players.
I got the feeling that Vanguard, the game, is exchanging more data and information, then EQ was.
Okay, what does that mean? It mean that you, the player, will see exactly the same thing that player B, C and D sees. It is a litteral overflood of informations. The ranger is aiming, the druid is casting X, not Y and so on. The accuracy and details of the information impact vastly on the performance. Is this accuracy necessary?
I mean, do you need to see exactly the same stuff as each and every other player? The ogre is snatching his bottom at exactly the same moment? Or can you leave some freedom to the local computer in order to reduce lag. It all depend on the PvP importance and the "immersiveness", but IMO, any tool to reduce the lag without hurting the graphics is good. If someone isn't in my group, do I need to know exactly what he is doing, precisely? Or can there be some freedom?
Vanguard mades the decision that information accuracy is not bargainable. Even if it create lag. The uberness of your computer can only helps that much, as the network (internet) is abused heavily. Games such as CoV made more open decision, random emotes are generated locally. Which mean 2 players won't see the same stuff. However each and every action made by a player is identical...explanation...you blow a bus station in CoV, each and every player see the same attack, the same power been used...however nobody will see the bus station explode the same way, as each computer will generated that locally. CoV was quite conservative IMO, they could have stretch that further; but in a game with a focus on PvP, they restrain themselves for PvP reasons.
Is all that accuracy that important on each and every detail in the game? Sigil thinks that it is. While Cryptic made many compromises and I never saw any player complain...most don't even notice. I would personnally made more compromise to hurt and destroy the evil lagmonster...especially if I was to do a raiding game...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I didn't compare to VG in any way. I said that your defence over at SWG forums was failing. Now go back and defend. As SoE/SWG is the culprit of things.
http://www.xfire.com/cms/xstatics_2007_june/
http://www.xfire.com/cms/xstatics_2007_may/
But anyway besides from you I actually can show some signs for making my argument, you just use same flame and trolling done the last 1½ or so year.
Well I'm sorry if I touched a nerve there, I thought you were comparing the two as they both have been through a disaster or two and you mentioned people were returning to SWG in the Vanguard forum. We can discuss SWG on the appropriate forum if you wish, be my guest and post those links on the Vets forums.
As for VG, like I said gamers are going through that game faster than a nun's first curry. It's not about how many are coming back it's all about retaining customers and Vanguards horrific performance issues coupled with the most pompus and arrogant community in MMO history is why the server populations are plummeting. Why do you believe that the population of Vanguard has continued to fall over the last seven months and is showing no sign of leveling off? I'm really interested in your answer to that question.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis