You guys do realize that his video states that Atheists are responsible for the most deaths in history right?
Yes we do.
But most importantly who cares?
In the future we will have more Atheists killing people because the religions will disappear.
Before the year 1900 95% of deaths were caused in the name or because of religion, after 1900 the trend has been inverted.
After the year 2000 the 95% of deats will be caused by atheists, which is positive, because that will mean that religions will be a long distant memory.
I always think positive
Nice way to make up statistics there. 95% of deaths before the year 1900 were not in the name of or because of religion.
Yes?
And were the creator of the video pulled his statistics from?
Exactly the same place where I got it from.
Can't you see it was a joke?
I am just having a bit of fun, since those religious based thread are taking over the forum recently, I think it is time to take them a little bit less seriously, so hopefully we gonna see less of them.
I know you were joking, but making up statistics always pisses me off.
I just wish people would stop trying to blame the evils commited by humanity on something. Religion is no more at fault for deaths killed then the Machine gun a soldier carries is. Religion is used as a tool by people wanting more Power, Land, Wealth, or fame. It is not the direct cause of any actual conflict. Yes it maybe used as a rallying banner, but it did not actually cause the conflict. For instance the Crusades which are always mentioned. Do you honestly think that the Crusades would of happened if the Muslim people lived in Siberia? Do you think anyone would of honestly been fighting over Antartica because of religion? So while religion is used by powerful people to sway soldiers to their side, it isn't anymore at fault for the actual conflict then loving your country or your king or what ever else is decided to be the "reason" you are fighting.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I could debate this in great length and I could support my arguments with a lot of credible evidence. But this is something that would make some people highly unhappy since it would screw over their world view (being: omfg!!111!! religion is the suxxx!!!111!!11). So I'm just going to summarize it:
NO
Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
True and there is no denial of that, but is it religions fault or the is it the followers? I highly doubt given the general message in most "holy" books that we were meant to beat the living hell out eachother , most define "love and peace" fairly clear.
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
True and there is no denial of that, but is it religions fault or the is it the followers? I highly doubt given the general message in most "holy" books that we were meant to beat the living hell out eachother , most define "love and peace" fairly clear.
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I could debate this in great length and I could support my arguments with a lot of credible evidence. But this is something that would make some people highly unhappy since it would screw over their world view (being: omfg!!111!! religion is the suxxx!!!111!!11). So I'm just going to summarize it:
NO
Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Apparently. Tho I belive religion is/Was an important (positive) part of human evolution. I don't know if you respect religion for the same reasons.
I could debate this in great length and I could support my arguments with a lot of credible evidence. But this is something that would make some people highly unhappy since it would screw over their world view (being: omfg!!111!! religion is the suxxx!!!111!!11). So I'm just going to summarize it:
NO
Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Apparently. Tho I belive religion is/Was an important (positive) part of human evolution. I don't know if you respect religion for the same reasons.
I believe in evolution. I just don't believe that it was an accident.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
True and there is no denial of that, but is it religions fault or the is it the followers? I highly doubt given the general message in most "holy" books that we were meant to beat the living hell out eachother , most define "love and peace" fairly clear.
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
I've done my fair share of reading mate, as a matter of fact it's how I found my path I currently walk.
See heres alot of the problem, we're mostly basing religion from one source here, thats the middle east.
Incase none have realized it, that place is a freaking warzone period. Since the dawn of mankinds migration to that desert people have been qualming over anything and everything. Hell I would too.
Lets move on up towards india and asia, whats this say you? There are other religions other than christianity,jewdeism, and islam?
Sure are, athiests I.E Communists literally murdered countless souls in malaysia to remove religion, look at china and what they've done in the past in the name of anti religion.
Lets look at the celts, a fairly peaceful folk. War amongst the tribes happend often but not out of faith, it was just war.
See man kind will make excuses to do about anything, and the uglier it gets the more we try to justify it. For the most part we fall on the excuse "God told me to" because thats the ultimate escape, you concience is clear because after all if your diety says it is fine it must be.
The coin works on both sides, and the bottom line is Humanity can be a sick ,disgusting beast. Yet we can also produce works of beauty, and our ability to love is one of the redeemers.
Saying Atheism never caused a Death is also a lie. Many Governments persecuted religions and religious beliefs and were atheist governments. This anti-religious stance that China and the USSR (just to name a couple of examples) had caused many many deaths and could be attributed to their Atheism and anti-religious beliefs.
So honestly Atheism isn't any less guilty of being used as a tool for War then Religion is. And both are just like that Rifle held by a Soldier. Not at fault themselves.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar. Plus, in countless situations, Christians have in the past ignored the new testament teachings in favor of the old. You are apparently of the opinion that this is wrong, and you are likely right in this respect, but we are talking about the way men react to religions, not how they were originally intended.
B.) He was talking about religions in general, and his reference to the old testament happens to cover all three of the major religions of today, not just Christianity.
C.) He never said that any religion was "all about violence", merely that no religion is purely one of peace. I'd have to disagree with him, but only because there are a few exceptions (not including Christianity).
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar.
Bullshit. I'll illustrate with a little example.
Behold the Holy Book Of MadAce:
"RULE 1: Thou shalt love all living creatures.
RULE 2: THou shalt eat alive kittens."
Now I as a human can decide with my own free will which rule to follow. I think I'll discard rule 1. Kittens = jummy.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s). Nothing in that statement drives people to war. If, however, an atheist also has political leanings, lust for power, etc, then yes, that could cause an Atheist to go to war - but not for their Atheism.
Atheism SHOULD stop a person from going to war. If you have only one life to live why would you spend it in the middle of chaos, in pain and suffering? Atheism is about making the most of the short time you have, and laying on your death bed with the only comfort being that it was all worth it - or perhaps a terrible regret that it should have been different. That's the only heaven and hell we get to experience.
It is also about realizing that, with no afterlife, the time you spend with your loved ones is the only time you'll ever have with them. There is no eternal life, only the one, too short, life. Those who actually think about their Atheism realize this, and they attempt to make the most of this knowledge. But hey, that's just how I see it.
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar. Plus, in countless situations, Christians have in the past ignored the new testament teachings in favor of the old. You are apparently of the opinion that this is wrong, and you are likely right in this respect, but we are talking about the way men react to religions, not how they were originally intended.
That is like telling people to reject the history of their country. The old testament is the history of what God has done on earth to prepare the people for the coming of Jesus. After Jesus comes that is a new part of God's plan. So rejecting the Old Testament doesn't have to happen. You do not have to believe the Old Testament to be valid still, but it is important to religion.
B.) He was talking about religions in general, and his reference to the old testament happens to cover all three of the major religions of today, not just Christianity.
C.) He never said that any religion was "all about violence", merely that no religion is purely one of peace. I'd have to disagree with him, but only because there are a few exceptions (not including Christianity).
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar.
Bullshit. I'll illustrate with a little example.
Behold the Holy Book Of MadAce:
"RULE 1: Thou shalt love all living creatures.
RULE 2: THou shalt eat alive kittens."
Now I as a human can decide with my own free will which rule to follow. I think I'll discard rule 1. Kittens = jummy.
Mad haha... I love how you just break it down so easily.
Exactly. What is with absolutes anyhow? I thought only wacko's form absolutes out of religion. Interpret things all you want, but nobody knows for sure what any of it means 100%.
Now I've also heard many say that there is only direct relation in middle eastern language and nothing is metaphorical.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s). Nothing in that statement drives people to war. If, however, an atheist also has political leanings, lust for power, etc, then yes, that could cause an Atheist to go to war - but not for their Atheism. Atheism SHOULD stop a person from going to war. If you have only one life to live why would you spend it in the middle of chaos, in pain and suffering? Atheism is about making the most of the short time you have, and laying on your death bed with the only comfort being that it was all worth it - or perhaps a terrible regret that it should have been different. That's the only heaven and hell we get to experience. It is also about realizing that, with no afterlife, the time you spend with your loved ones is the only time you'll ever have with them. There is no eternal life, only the one, too short, life. Those who actually think about their Atheism realize this, and they attempt to make the most of this knowledge. But hey, that's just how I see it. - Mal
Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s). Nothing in that statement drives people to war. If, however, an atheist also has political leanings, lust for power, etc, then yes, that could cause an Atheist to go to war - but not for their Atheism. Atheism SHOULD stop a person from going to war. If you have only one life to live why would you spend it in the middle of chaos, in pain and suffering? Atheism is about making the most of the short time you have, and laying on your death bed with the only comfort being that it was all worth it - or perhaps a terrible regret that it should have been different. That's the only heaven and hell we get to experience. It is also about realizing that, with no afterlife, the time you spend with your loved ones is the only time you'll ever have with them. There is no eternal life, only the one, too short, life. Those who actually think about their Atheism realize this, and they attempt to make the most of this knowledge. But hey, that's just how I see it. - Mal
Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
Its a bit silly to point to older killings and claim that Atheists kill more. It could be true that it happens to be that Atheists to kill more, I don't know, but Most Atheists don't kill because they are atheists. Basicly, While it may be Atheists that kill, Atheism isn't the motive (Most of the time, Because I'm sure there are idiots who do use atheism as a motive).
Religion on the other hand, has often been a motive in killing. Now the actual religion may not promote the killing, that doesn't stop people from using it as a motive. Because of a political agenda, because they are delusional and some high high priest or pope saw a vision of him converting the entire muslim population, or because the misinterprent books like the Bible, quran, etc.
Yes, I do think the world would be a better place without religion. Aside from the above, Religion hurts us. A lot of money is pumped into religious organizations, money that could be better spend on other things. There are still laws and restrictions that are based on religion.
and aside from that, There is no religion that only promotes love and peace. Not a single one.
Its a bit silly to point to older killings and claim that Atheists kill more. It could be true that it happens to be that Atheists to kill more, I don't know, but Most Atheists don't kill because they are atheists. Basicly, While it may be Atheists that kill, Atheism isn't the motive (Most of the time, Because I'm sure there are idiots who do use atheism as a motive). Religion on the other hand, has often been a motive in killing. Now the actual religion may not promote the killing, that doesn't stop people from using it as a motive. Because of a political agenda, because they are delusional and some high high priest or pope saw a vision of him converting the entire muslim population, or because the misinterprent books like the Bible, quran, etc. Yes, I do think the world would be a better place without religion. Aside from the above, Religion hurts us. A lot of money is pumped into religious organizations, money that could be better spend on other things. There are still laws and restrictions that are based on religion. and aside from that, There is no religion that only promotes love and peace. Not a single one.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s). Nothing in that statement drives people to war. If, however, an atheist also has political leanings, lust for power, etc, then yes, that could cause an Atheist to go to war - but not for their Atheism. Atheism SHOULD stop a person from going to war. If you have only one life to live why would you spend it in the middle of chaos, in pain and suffering? Atheism is about making the most of the short time you have, and laying on your death bed with the only comfort being that it was all worth it - or perhaps a terrible regret that it should have been different. That's the only heaven and hell we get to experience. It is also about realizing that, with no afterlife, the time you spend with your loved ones is the only time you'll ever have with them. There is no eternal life, only the one, too short, life. Those who actually think about their Atheism realize this, and they attempt to make the most of this knowledge. But hey, that's just how I see it. - Mal
Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
There is a difference, however. For instance, Christianity (a proper example as it is the majority religion of the US, where I am from), has in its writings: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18. I think the people involved in the Salem Witch Trials took that bit of old testament knowledge to heart.
And for some new testament knowledge:
Romans 1:28-32 :
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Translation: Do wrong from this list and you deserve death.
The reasons for war and death are contained within Christianity, and many other religions as well.
That said, I realize that people don't always follow the Bible, and most don't, and for very good reason. It is an ancient book with mixed morals and bad teachings. The fact that we can "take the good" from it and leave the rest means that we, as a society, do not need such a thing. It should say something that people have to sort through the book of their religion to find what is acceptable and unacceptable in the first place.
The bible contains a lot of crap and a lot of good things. I as a human being have the freedom (or the illusion thereof) that I decide which rules to follow or how to interprete them.
Illustration
The Holy Book Of MadAce:
RULE 3: Don't eat fries with peanutbutter.
My personal interpretation: KILL ALL THE DUTCHMEN!! KILL THEM ALL! BURN THEM!! BOIL THEM IN SECOND HAND RAT FAT!!!!!
See? freedom.
Actually, it's not that simple. People are always highly influenced by their culture. And as all the forms of Christianity and Islam taught us... Culture decides how religion is interpreted.
The bible contains a lot of crap and a lot of good things. I as a human being have the freedom (or the illusion thereof) that I decide which rules to follow or how to interprete them.
Illustration
The Holy Book Of MadAce:
RULE 3: Don't eat fries with peanutbutter.
My personal interpretation: KILL ALL THE DUTCHMEN!! KILL THEM ALL! BURN THEM!! BOIL THEM IN SECOND HAND RAT FAT!!!!!
See? freedom.
Actually, it's not that simple. People are always highly influenced by their culture. And as all the forms of Christianity and Islam taught us... Culture decides how religion is interpreted.
Look I don't know what country you are from (well I do, but it doesn't exist) but I will not stand for your interpretations.
Therefor it is my pleasure to announce that the Church of the Holy Puyo INC will be committed to a crusade against your culture.
You have misinterpretted french fries, it should be fried patatoes, this will not be stood for.
It is our wish as well as the (Insert deity) that your people convert or die as it states clearly in our book chapter 46:33
This can't be right, you guys are wrong and we are right, fear not though if you convert now and give us your oil, it'll be your oil too.
If you don't convert however, I'm afraid your oil will be our oil and your people will be dead unconvertted and sent to a place like hell but more like the inner theigh of Susan Summers.
Comments
Yes we do.
But most importantly who cares?
In the future we will have more Atheists killing people because the religions will disappear.
Before the year 1900 95% of deaths were caused in the name or because of religion, after 1900 the trend has been inverted.
After the year 2000 the 95% of deats will be caused by atheists, which is positive, because that will mean that religions will be a long distant memory.
I always think positive
Nice way to make up statistics there. 95% of deaths before the year 1900 were not in the name of or because of religion.
I know you were joking, but making up statistics always pisses me off.Yes?
And were the creator of the video pulled his statistics from?
Exactly the same place where I got it from.
Can't you see it was a joke?
I am just having a bit of fun, since those religious based thread are taking over the forum recently, I think it is time to take them a little bit less seriously, so hopefully we gonna see less of them.
I just wish people would stop trying to blame the evils commited by humanity on something. Religion is no more at fault for deaths killed then the Machine gun a soldier carries is. Religion is used as a tool by people wanting more Power, Land, Wealth, or fame. It is not the direct cause of any actual conflict. Yes it maybe used as a rallying banner, but it did not actually cause the conflict. For instance the Crusades which are always mentioned. Do you honestly think that the Crusades would of happened if the Muslim people lived in Siberia? Do you think anyone would of honestly been fighting over Antartica because of religion? So while religion is used by powerful people to sway soldiers to their side, it isn't anymore at fault for the actual conflict then loving your country or your king or what ever else is decided to be the "reason" you are fighting.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
avatar says it all
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
Yes, lets use the Old Testament which is not what Modern Christianity is based on and then say Religion is violent and meant to be violent. We can just throw out that whole pesky New Testament with the teachings of Jesus that completely conflict with the Old Testament. Jesus did not teach "God's people" to make war on each other. He showed with his own actions how a Christian should act.
Also, Saying that Christianity is all about violence bcause of the Old Testament is like Saying the United States is all about genocide because of what the colonialist did.
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Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Apparently. Tho I belive religion is/Was an important (positive) part of human evolution. I don't know if you respect religion for the same reasons.
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Wow, Madace do we actually agree on something?
Apparently. Tho I belive religion is/Was an important (positive) part of human evolution. I don't know if you respect religion for the same reasons.
I believe in evolution. I just don't believe that it was an accident.
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LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I can't agree with this statement. Time and again, especially in the Old Testament, God shows his willingness to kill, harbor grudges, and punish potentially innocent people to hurt a few guilty. Check out Exodus 17:10-17. The Israelites are warred on by the Amalekites: eventually, the Israelites prevail, and God tells them to record the war itself, so that he may remember it and be at war with the Amalekites from generation to generation. This guy is not about peace. He's about vendettas.
And he's about genocide. Deutoronomy 20:16: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." We learn why in Deutoronomy 20:18: "Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." I forgot to mention he's also about jealousy.
But, I hear you ask: "Veraticus, what about Love they Neighbor? Or do not murder?" Unfortunately such admonitions only apply to people protected by God's Law: by that, I mean Israelites and the people that accepted the laws of Yahweh. Others were not suffered such virtues as love or, well, not-murder (if that's a virtue). And even if you love your Israelite neighbor, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them if they committed a capital crime. In Exodus 21:12-17, we can see that capital crimes include cursing your parents or breaking the sabbath.
Anyhow, I think I've made my point. Religions are not all about peace and love. Most are terribly violent, if you actually read them. They do include messages of love and peace, too, but they're hardly exclusive, or even the majority.
I've done my fair share of reading mate, as a matter of fact it's how I found my path I currently walk.See heres alot of the problem, we're mostly basing religion from one source here, thats the middle east.
Incase none have realized it, that place is a freaking warzone period. Since the dawn of mankinds migration to that desert people have been qualming over anything and everything. Hell I would too.
Lets move on up towards india and asia, whats this say you? There are other religions other than christianity,jewdeism, and islam?
Sure are, athiests I.E Communists literally murdered countless souls in malaysia to remove religion, look at china and what they've done in the past in the name of anti religion.
Lets look at the celts, a fairly peaceful folk. War amongst the tribes happend often but not out of faith, it was just war.
See man kind will make excuses to do about anything, and the uglier it gets the more we try to justify it. For the most part we fall on the excuse "God told me to" because thats the ultimate escape, you concience is clear because after all if your diety says it is fine it must be.
The coin works on both sides, and the bottom line is Humanity can be a sick ,disgusting beast. Yet we can also produce works of beauty, and our ability to love is one of the redeemers.
Saying Atheism never caused a Death is also a lie. Many Governments persecuted religions and religious beliefs and were atheist governments. This anti-religious stance that China and the USSR (just to name a couple of examples) had caused many many deaths and could be attributed to their Atheism and anti-religious beliefs.
So honestly Atheism isn't any less guilty of being used as a tool for War then Religion is. And both are just like that Rifle held by a Soldier. Not at fault themselves.
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A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar. Plus, in countless situations, Christians have in the past ignored the new testament teachings in favor of the old. You are apparently of the opinion that this is wrong, and you are likely right in this respect, but we are talking about the way men react to religions, not how they were originally intended.
B.) He was talking about religions in general, and his reference to the old testament happens to cover all three of the major religions of today, not just Christianity.
C.) He never said that any religion was "all about violence", merely that no religion is purely one of peace. I'd have to disagree with him, but only because there are a few exceptions (not including Christianity).
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Bullshit. I'll illustrate with a little example.
Behold the Holy Book Of MadAce:
"RULE 1: Thou shalt love all living creatures.
RULE 2: THou shalt eat alive kittens."
Now I as a human can decide with my own free will which rule to follow. I think I'll discard rule 1. Kittens = jummy.
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Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s). Nothing in that statement drives people to war. If, however, an atheist also has political leanings, lust for power, etc, then yes, that could cause an Atheist to go to war - but not for their Atheism.
Atheism SHOULD stop a person from going to war. If you have only one life to live why would you spend it in the middle of chaos, in pain and suffering? Atheism is about making the most of the short time you have, and laying on your death bed with the only comfort being that it was all worth it - or perhaps a terrible regret that it should have been different. That's the only heaven and hell we get to experience.
It is also about realizing that, with no afterlife, the time you spend with your loved ones is the only time you'll ever have with them. There is no eternal life, only the one, too short, life. Those who actually think about their Atheism realize this, and they attempt to make the most of this knowledge. But hey, that's just how I see it.
- Mal
A.) Either accept or reject the old testament as a whole, its not a salad bar. Plus, in countless situations, Christians have in the past ignored the new testament teachings in favor of the old. You are apparently of the opinion that this is wrong, and you are likely right in this respect, but we are talking about the way men react to religions, not how they were originally intended.
That is like telling people to reject the history of their country. The old testament is the history of what God has done on earth to prepare the people for the coming of Jesus. After Jesus comes that is a new part of God's plan. So rejecting the Old Testament doesn't have to happen. You do not have to believe the Old Testament to be valid still, but it is important to religion.
B.) He was talking about religions in general, and his reference to the old testament happens to cover all three of the major religions of today, not just Christianity.
C.) He never said that any religion was "all about violence", merely that no religion is purely one of peace. I'd have to disagree with him, but only because there are a few exceptions (not including Christianity).
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LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Bullshit. I'll illustrate with a little example.
Behold the Holy Book Of MadAce:
"RULE 1: Thou shalt love all living creatures.
RULE 2: THou shalt eat alive kittens."
Now I as a human can decide with my own free will which rule to follow. I think I'll discard rule 1. Kittens = jummy.
Mad haha... I love how you just break it down so easily.Exactly. What is with absolutes anyhow? I thought only wacko's form absolutes out of religion. Interpret things all you want, but nobody knows for sure what any of it means 100%.
Now I've also heard many say that there is only direct relation in middle eastern language and nothing is metaphorical.
I say this. Check out the golden dawn.
Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
Come on now, you know you are totally waging war
Its a bit silly to point to older killings and claim that Atheists kill more. It could be true that it happens to be that Atheists to kill more, I don't know, but Most Atheists don't kill because they are atheists. Basicly, While it may be Atheists that kill, Atheism isn't the motive (Most of the time, Because I'm sure there are idiots who do use atheism as a motive).
Religion on the other hand, has often been a motive in killing. Now the actual religion may not promote the killing, that doesn't stop people from using it as a motive. Because of a political agenda, because they are delusional and some high high priest or pope saw a vision of him converting the entire muslim population, or because the misinterprent books like the Bible, quran, etc.
Yes, I do think the world would be a better place without religion. Aside from the above, Religion hurts us. A lot of money is pumped into religious organizations, money that could be better spend on other things. There are still laws and restrictions that are based on religion.
and aside from that, There is no religion that only promotes love and peace. Not a single one.
That's why I join cults.
I know what group kills most! Let's demonize them!!!
They're called Homo Sapiens Sapiens!!!
(btw, I'm on their side)
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Just like the vast majority of Religous people never start wars. See the same is true about Christianity. I know I am a Christian and I have never waged war upon a Muslim or a Jewish person because they weren't Christian. It is completely ridiculous to blame religion for people's problems. That is like blaming video games for kids killing their classmates. Or blaming Rock music or D&D.
There is a difference, however. For instance, Christianity (a proper example as it is the majority religion of the US, where I am from), has in its writings: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18. I think the people involved in the Salem Witch Trials took that bit of old testament knowledge to heart.
And for some new testament knowledge:
Romans 1:28-32 :
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Translation: Do wrong from this list and you deserve death.
The reasons for war and death are contained within Christianity, and many other religions as well.
That said, I realize that people don't always follow the Bible, and most don't, and for very good reason. It is an ancient book with mixed morals and bad teachings. The fact that we can "take the good" from it and leave the rest means that we, as a society, do not need such a thing. It should say something that people have to sort through the book of their religion to find what is acceptable and unacceptable in the first place.
- Mal
I hate you types, call me a racist but you Homo Sapiens are real sick creatures.
The bible contains a lot of crap and a lot of good things. I as a human being have the freedom (or the illusion thereof) that I decide which rules to follow or how to interprete them.
Illustration
The Holy Book Of MadAce:
RULE 3: Don't eat fries with peanutbutter.
My personal interpretation: KILL ALL THE DUTCHMEN!! KILL THEM ALL! BURN THEM!! BOIL THEM IN SECOND HAND RAT FAT!!!!!
See? freedom.
Actually, it's not that simple. People are always highly influenced by their culture. And as all the forms of Christianity and Islam taught us... Culture decides how religion is interpreted.
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Therefor it is my pleasure to announce that the Church of the Holy Puyo INC will be committed to a crusade against your culture.
You have misinterpretted french fries, it should be fried patatoes, this will not be stood for.
It is our wish as well as the (Insert deity) that your people convert or die as it states clearly in our book chapter 46:33
"Thou shalt not do that".
It's go time sir.
While The Holy Book Of MadAce says:
"Thou shalt not have sex with cows who have been death for longer than 3 weeks."
In short: Those areas where all the oil in your country is... IT'S HOLY TO US!! GIMME!!
This means Holy War!!!!
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In our book it says your Oil is ours though!
This can't be right, you guys are wrong and we are right, fear not though if you convert now and give us your oil, it'll be your oil too.
If you don't convert however, I'm afraid your oil will be our oil and your people will be dead unconvertted and sent to a place like hell but more like the inner theigh of Susan Summers.
Make your choice.