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choosing order vs. chaos
Swiftblade13
Member Posts: 638
We all know from the polls taken here and from various conversations that people who are looking forward to WAR are leaning strongly in the direction of Chaos.
While things may balance out after launch.. with less "hardcore" WAR fans being more likely to choose order I think we may very well wind up with a reasonable ratio of players on each team...... but I strongly suspect that Chaos is going to own the hell out of order in RvR....
This makes me sad because I always choose the underdog team and I'm getting tired of getting my ass handed to me because my "team" is full of idiots who refuse to work together, while my opponent is organized and efficient.
I really dont want to play chaos.. I love the orcs and the chaos.. but it's just a lot easier for me to be immersed playing as a human or a dwarf. I just dont feel like an orc!
It's kinda funny, Orcs are my favorite race in Warhammer.. but I don't really want to play one. If i do get forced to chaos I'll probably play chosen.. even though I think the greenskins are much cooler... I just can't handle picturing myself as a hulking green monster.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Comments
Goblins are beneath you? I have heard good reviews on Squig Herders and Shamans in WAR .
You are absolutely right, I might be able to get into a goblin, but sadly none of the goblin classes appeal to me =(Goblins are beneath you? I have heard good reviews on Squig Herders and Shamans in WAR .
I want to be a DPS warrior type, or a scout type (I know there is no stealth.. I just mean a medium armor melee dps type).
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
"I think we may very well wind up with a reasonable ratio of players on each team"
vs.
"I strongly suspect that chaos is going to own the hell out of order in RvR"
"I really don't want to play chaos" and "I just don't feel like an orc!"
vs.
"I love the orcs and the chaos" and "Orcs are my favorite race in Warhammer"
You're not allowed to hold both opinions on the same topic. In a post full of your own personal opinion, you left nothing for me to reply to.
"I think we may very well wind up with a reasonable ratio of players on each team"
vs.
"I strongly suspect that chaos is going to own the hell out of order in RvR"
"I really don't want to play chaos" and "I just don't feel like an orc!"
vs.
"I love the orcs and the chaos" and "Orcs are my favorite race in Warhammer"
You're not allowed to hold both opinions on the same topic. In a post full of your own personal opinion, you left nothing for me to reply to.
Well.. my goal was to explain why its going to be difficult for me to choose... and I was hoping others who want to play order, but hesitate because they dont want to get spanked by being a "goody" in a PvP game yet again, might disucuss their views and concerns.
As far as the things you quoted me saying.. I dont think they contradict one another
I think that while Order and Chaos might not be imbalanced as far as actual numbers, they will be imbalanced in PvP based on skill and organization.
In reference to what I said about orcs and chaos, I love to look at them and read about them, but I don't want to spend hundreds of hours "being" one. My MMO toons are an extension of myself... I play the character that looks and feels like it fits me... not the one I think is coolest.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
I wouldn't put to much faith in what others think will be the most populated or most well-organized faction. At best, those opinions are based on trends... which are far from rules.
You can draw two conclusions based on what happened to World of Warcraft: the forum-going players tend to prefer the darker or evil side, and also that no one ever really knows whats going to happen at launch.
Really, we're too far away from launch to be worrying about any of these types of things.
I think your best bet would be to find a decent guild early on (like now) that plans to play order so that you do have teamates to play with at the start.
I wouldn't put to much faith in what others think will be the most populated or most well-organized faction. At best, those opinions are based on trends... which are far from rules.
You can draw two conclusions based on what happened to World of Warcraft: the forum-going players tend to prefer the darker or evil side, and also that no one ever really knows whats going to happen at launch.
Really, we're too far away from launch to be worrying about any of these types of things.
aye, this is true, and though Alliance in WoW is more highly populated, Horde dominates PvP.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
What concerns me is that I feel it is very likely that "Order" will lose the campaigns and have their cities sacked cycle after cycle, after cycle... I guess I'll just take my chances and we shall see...
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that Order will "very likely" lose most campaigns. The only two reasons I can think of why one side would consistently lose to the other would be population and overall organization.
If Order were to be lacking in population for whatever reason, the use of instanced PvP could be an effective means of evening out the chances of gaining access to the enemy's capital city. If the Order population en masse were to primarily take part in the scenarios, then population would be less of an issue.
At this point, I see no reason why you would believe Order would be inherently less organized. Both factions will no doubt have plenty of guilds that most people would consider more "hardcore". As for the average population of each faction, similar to WoW both sides have their share of idiots. I don't think thats necessarily more or less true depending on the faction.
I think this game is unbalanced sub race wise I mean look...
On the Destruction you have:
Goblins
Orcs
Human Chaos
Mutated Chaos
and Dark Elves.
While on the Order side you have:
Dwarfs
Humans
and High Elves
So I think it is possible that Destruction could have more players because of diversity, but this is just a guess, you dont really know until the game has been out for a couple weeks.
I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that Order will "very likely" lose most campaigns. The only two reasons I can think of why one side would consistently lose to the other would be population and overall organization.
If Order were to be lacking in population for whatever reason, the use of instanced PvP could be an effective means of evening out the chances of gaining access to the enemy's capital city. If the Order population en masse were to primarily take part in the scenarios, then population would be less of an issue.
At this point, I see no reason why you would believe Order would be inherently less organized. Both factions will no doubt have plenty of guilds that most people would consider more "hardcore". As for the average population of each faction, similar to WoW both sides have their share of idiots. I don't think thats necessarily more or less true depending on the faction.
Yes, I believe quite strongly that Chaos will be better organized and more skilled in PvP as a rule. I base this opinion on past experiences... the forum goers always lean heavily toward "evil"... and that has already shown itself.. nearly 2:1 ratio on these forums are planning to roll chaos... then "evil" always stomps "good" in organized PvP... this is true of every faction MMO i've ever played. The only time "good" comes out on top is when sheer numbers are all that matter.
Unless there are mechanics within the game to prevent it, I believe Chaos will win far more campaigns then Order will.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
It's DESTRUCTION not CHAOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that that's out of the way........
Well, that would suck.
A55 has my oppinion down with this. I'll be with the Diversity side. If you spend most of your time with cookie cutter races, you have yet one more reason to quit playing.
I'm just here for the murder, If you can't handle it don't play.
There isn't any real diversity like he is seeing.
Greenskin Professions:
Black Orc - Orc
Orc Choppa - Orc
Goblin Shaman - Goblin
Goblin Squig Herder - Goblin
Dwarf Professions:
Ironbreaker - Dwarf
Hammerer - Dwarf
Engineer - Dwarf
Runepriest - Dwarf
Chaos Professions:
Chosen - Mutated Human (though you won't see anything but armor)
Marauder - Mutated Human
Magus - Human
Zealot - Human
Empire Professions:
Knight of the Blazing Sun - Human
Witch Hunter - Human
Bright Wizard - Human
Warrior Priest - Human
So as you can see, there really isn't any diversity, your specific race is determined by your profession. You will never see a Goblin Black Orc or Choppa, just as you will never see an Orc Squig Herder or Orc Shaman. Chaos is the same way. The Zealot and Magus are left unmutated because it serves Tzeentch better to leave them as they are.
Yeah I know when it comes to classes there is no difference. But I am talking about what most people pick their character on, looks, and the Destruction side simply has a lot more different looks of characters, making them more likely to be picked by some than only 3 looks which the Order have, compared to the 5 looks that the Destruction have.
BTW I fixed you quote, you had the Zealot and Chosen mixed up, Zealot is mutated and Chosen is just regular human.
No, actually the Chosen is the mutated Chaos. The Zealot isn't mutated.
The Chosen are mutated underneath their armor as the armor has been fused to their body like the armor of Malekith the Witch King. The Zealots aren't mutated as can be seen here:
When you compare those with what mutations in Warhammer look like:
You see that Zealots aren't mutations, just paled human figures that have become that way due to being influenced by Chaos.
your basing this off of pure speculation.
besides if you still have not chosen what class your going to be at launch, u still have 8 more professions to choose from.
and as for balance, im sure the difference will be minor. I remember reading something about if one side is at a lack of players on a server that the side with strongly less players will be given bonus's such as exp gain and "point" gain on the RvR scales, i believe thats somewhere in the grab bag questions if anyone wants to look for it.
Well all thru beta and up until launch WOW was horribly unbalanced in favor of the Horde, then come launch day the tables were turned rather dramatically. Armchair theorists speculate that the more hardcore / avid gamers (like those who hang around MMO forums and line up for beta slots lol) would go for the "bad guys" while the more casual would go for the "good guys."
So I guess it would depend if WAR manages to pull in a sizeable casual crowd /shrug
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
OK your telling me those Zealots don't look mutated but this Chosen Chaos does... I got this off the official site on the Armies of War Link.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Chaos/Careers/images/ChosenImg_01.jpg
You can't see what a Chosen looks like under the armor because it is fused on it's body like Malekith's Armor from the Dark Elves. Of course it looks normal, but if it was possible to strip away that armor, you would see one of the most hideously mutated beings to inhabit the world of Warhammer. Probably the only thing worse would be followers of Nurgle...cause lets face it, he's just nasty.
So yes. Chosen are mutated humans. Zealots are just humans that have been changed due to the affects of Chaos, not mutated.
How do you know this? where do you get your info from?
Tzeentch Chaos Warriors are often blessed with strange mutations or wear armor with arcane inlays that improve the potency of their lord's magic.
us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/hordesofchaos/painting/4colors/tzeentch.htm
Mythic has modeled the Chaos Chosen off the Chaos Warriors. I took that quote directly from the Games Workshop guide to painting Chaos Warriors that I linked. All Chaos in WAR are Tzeentch followers. It would stand to reason they follow the lore behind what the Tzeentch Chaos Warriors are and this Podcast confirms such: www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/pp_Makingof_bitrate250.zip
I've had a High Elf army for the table top game for over 10 years. I know a great deal about the lore behind the game, though the majority of my knowledge resides on the High Elven side of things. However, you do have to know your enemy to know how to beat them.
As far as balancing numbers..it doesn't matter what the devs do, it will be up to the players to decide.
What will likely happen, one side will dominate the other, for whatever reasons, i.e. character selection, cosmetics, etc. When it starts getting stale you'd be surprised at how many of the "leetsauce" guilds will reroll on the underdogs team, so they can get harder fights.
I saw this happen a lot in DAOC. Entire guilds would roll on other servers on a different realm either from boredom and wanting a change of scenery, or to go jump on the underdogs team for the excitement of it. I think it will be fine, though the forums will be full of people complaining about the enemies zerg tactics...but that will happen no matter what anyway.
D.
While that is true, even myself being guilty of rerolling for a tougher fight, in DAoC it wasn't those types of guilds that carried a realm. The elitist guilds always seemed like they had a large impact, but because they often avoided major objectives they would rarely contribute as much to the realm as a whole than a decently organized zerg would.
The elitist guilds are generally a non-issue when it comes to any type of balancing. These guilds ignore population imbalances and the overall quality of their realmmates, they're only looking for a competent opponent.
I'm going to play the good guys. In the EU most of the ppl is gonna join Destruction, so the interesting point is to be the opossite to the huge mainstream; always a disposable fight, always a battle running on, always a lot of work to do, as the Destruction masses will be doing it easily by gross numbers, we in the Order side have to be more organized and stretch our ties to make a good front out for the Destruction massive avalanche to be contained.
It is a question of fangs.