If your premise is that point and click is restrictive ........ lately ive been realizing how the choice to use it has had a beautiful result.
Consider the massive amounts of information wasd involves. Choosing PnC allowed the developers of this game to unique decisions resulting in improved gameplay. As i have been beta testing i have started to see that like any endevour......the key is what you do with your medium. I believe Wish is poised to deliver an impressive experience for many players because they can do more for your game experience than any wasd system could hope for! If you want more content less skilling more content and more content......... Wish for it.
But one of the nice things about it is that you can click then as your running you can look around. Its like being on autorun (say in ac2) but you dont have to re-aim yourself as you run. Plus you can chat, get ready for battle etc
You need to give it a good try before you can say "nuff said"
Point and click has had it's successes though... I'm not one for it either, but to call it a step backwards is too much imho. From Diablo 2 to Lineage 2, it's working for many people. If, like those games, it at least gives the option for a couple other control methods then it should be safe in it's chances of success in the realm of control.
I thought the same thing when I started the first Beta of Wish .. It didn't take long before I absolutely loved it .Its hard to describe but the Pathfinding is amazing.I'm not so sure I'll ever want to play a Game again that has WASD movement..I guess the Ideal would be a choice of either but like someone else said ..It cuts down on Lag in a major way .So P&C to me is the way of the Future not the Past
I come from the RPG genre playing Diablo both 1 and 2 being my top favorite games. Also playing Sacred. Although the style of game and perspective is much different I tried out Morrowind and I really didn't like the movement with keys...So I have avioded it since. I just find it too slow. I rather movement with keys for FPS.
So I am all for the PnC and can't wait to test it out next phase
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights www.crimsonhellknights.tk
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights www.crimsonhellknights.tk
I have played UO, with its mouse based movement system, for 54 months and like it very well. I tried Horizons, which uses the "w-a-s-d" keys for movement, and did not like that system at all. I hated having to use my left hand for movement and having that hand "tied" to one spot on the keyboard. That was one of the reasons I left Horizons after only three weeks. Personally, I consider a "point and click" mouse movement capability for Wish to be a very big plus. Wish is a RPG computer game, not some kids console game with one of those funky left-hand-movement-only controllers. A good game should give the user a choice of which movement method the user preferred though. Just my 2gp worth...
We keep getting told PnC is the answer to massive number of people been in one area at one time.
However,games like planetside which regularly have 300+ in a small area seems to have no such problems with WASD.DAoC a 3 year old game with seiges have been using WASD with no problems.
Also to say PnC works in wish means you did not play the last stage of it(alpha or beta or whatever they called it).It worked horribly.I could not catch hold of anything due to the useless PnC pathing.
Originally posted by hercules I think PnC= lazy programming.We keep getting told PnC is the answer to massive number of people been in one area at one time.However,games like planetside which regularly have 300+ in a small area seems to have no such problems with WASD.DAoC a 3 year old game with seiges have been using WASD with no problems.Also to say PnC works in wish means you did not play the last stage of it(alpha or beta or whatever they called it).It worked horribly.I could not catch hold of anything due to the useless PnC pathing.
Quite possibly the most ignorant and uniformed post yet.
It's not the answer for getting massive number of people in one area at one time. Either you can't read or can't understand what they are telling you. It's their answer for getting everyone on the same server.
Neither Planetside nor DAoC are trying to put all their people on one server. Come back and talk when they get 10,000+ people on a single server....without zones. And even if there will be a game someday going for all people on the same server, they will STILL save TREMENDOUSLY on the server/client trafic by having PnC.
And to say what you did about their pathfinding questions your very statement of even being in their Beta because even people who hated the game, hated the PnC movement all still agree it was the most advanced pathfinding to date in an MMOG. So maybe it's actually you who havent played the last stage of their Beta.
Originally posted by hercules I think PnC= lazy programming.
We keep getting told PnC is the answer to massive number of people been in one area at one time. However,games like planetside which regularly have 300+ in a small area seems to have no such problems with WASD.DAoC a 3 year old game with seiges have been using WASD with no problems. Also to say PnC works in wish means you did not play the last stage of it(alpha or beta or whatever they called it).It worked horribly.I could not catch hold of anything due to the useless PnC pathing.
Quite possibly the most ignorant and uniformed post yet.
It's not the answer for getting massive number of people in one area at one time. Either you can't read or can't understand what they are telling you. It's their answer for getting everyone on the same server.
Neither Planetside nor DAoC are trying to put all their people on one server. Come back and talk when they get 10,000+ people on a single server....without zones. And even if there will be a game someday going for all people on the same server, they will STILL save TREMENDOUSLY on the server/client trafic by having PnC.
And to say what you did about their pathfinding questions your very statement of even being in their Beta because even people who hated the game, hated the PnC movement all still agree it was the most advanced pathfinding to date in an MMOG. So maybe it's actually you who havent played the last stage of their Beta.
If you are buying into what they say about PnC been needed for this then thats your problem.
As for your statement that people say its the most advanced pathing to date please show me the link.
If you were not in beta you don't know anything simple as that .Rather then insult me show us a non developer link that says this.
Rather then be a fanboi who obviously has never played the game .Keep quiet about your ignorance and let those that ACTUALLY were in beta speak.
You're the one being an completely ignorant about the pathfinding and I'm the one who wasnt in beta?
Newsflash, not only was I in Beta 1, but I'm in Beta 1.5 right now, so that would make you the one who doesnt know anything. And you continue to prove it by basing your uniformed opinions off of old (OVER SIX MONTHS OLD) information that you saw (or might not of seeing how you're unexplicably saying their pathfinding sucks).
How about you stop being an uniformed troll and do your own homework for yourself. Plenty of people who hated the PnC spoke glowingly about the Pathfinding...even in beta one. Go find Thorongil who was even tossed from beta 1.0, or Xavori, or Linnet, or joae or tarabelle, all names that you should remember from beta 1.0 (that is IF you were actually in it) and tons others that hated PnC but praised the pathfinding.
And if I'm sounding like a fanboi, it's obvious you're sounding like someone who logged in for 2 seconds said "boo hoo hoo, PnC" and logged back out. Yeah, you're a real beta tester you are.
Seeing how you dont seem to be in Beta 1.5 then you havent seen the upgraded NDL engine, or the new textures for just about everything, the contrast changes, the skill changes, the fact that what you saw (for 5 min) in combat, death, looting, all were placeholders, that rogues werent even in yet, or that crafting wasnt even in yet, that the map has gone enormous teraforming...etc.
Seems like I know more about not only the current beta, but beta 1.0. Go figure. Then by that account you arent in the current beta. That would make you a hypocrite and have to take your own advice....Keep quiet about your ignorance and let those that ACTUALLY are in beta speak.
Originally posted by ScarNarruc You're the one being an completely ignorant about the pathfinding and I'm the one who wasnt in beta? Newsflash, not only was I in Beta 1, but I'm in Beta 1.5 right now, so that would make you the one who doesnt know anything. And you continue to prove it by basing your uniformed opinions off of old (OVER SIX MONTHS OLD) information that you saw (or might not of seeing how you're unexplicably saying their pathfinding sucks). How about you stop being an uniformed troll and do your own homework for yourself. Plenty of people who hated the PnC spoke glowingly about the Pathfinding...even in beta one. Go find Thorongil who was even tossed from beta 1.0, or Xavori, or Linnet, or joae or tarabelle, all names that you should remember from beta 1.0 (that is IF you were actually in it) and tons others that hated PnC but praised the pathfinding. And if I'm sounding like a fanboi, it's obvious you're sounding like someone who logged in for 2 seconds said "boo hoo hoo, PnC" and logged back out. Yeah, you're a real beta tester you are. Seeing how you dont seem to be in Beta 1.5 then you havent seen the upgraded NDL engine, or the new textures for just about everything, the contrast changes, the skill changes, the fact that what you saw (for 5 min) in combat, death, looting, all were placeholders, that rogues werent even in yet, or that crafting wasnt even in yet, that the map has gone enormous teraforming...etc. Seems like I know more about not only the current beta, but beta 1.0. Go figure. Then by that account you arent in the current beta. That would make you a hypocrite and have to take your own advice....Keep quiet about your ignorance and let those that ACTUALLY are in beta speak.
Clearly the ranting of a fanboi so go ahead
I would not even bother with another beta in wish because i already play 2 pay to play and have beta in dragons empire which is a vastly superior game so a beta slot for me will be totally wasted anyhow for this game.
I think the game is horrible you think its heaven,guess thats why we all have opinon.
My opinon is boring,terrible movement,poor graphics for a game coming out in 2005.
You opinon is <INSERT>
So readers can either listen to you or me or form their own view .
I will form my own view as I still have high hopes for this game, it has taken my interest more the Dragon Empires (except I love the fact DE has a strong guild base about the game)
Either way I would still like to try them both along with WoW and PotBS and see which one i think is the best.
Your actually in the DE beta?? sweet how is it going I am still waiting to be accepted if they ever accept any more testers been waiting so long for that game...not as long as some but still they said they were bringing in a heap of new testers as the weeks go by and then after they say that there is nothing said of it again for ages. Let me play either of those games I am dying down here
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights www.crimsonhellknights.tk
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights www.crimsonhellknights.tk
Originally posted by hercules Clearly the ranting of a fanboi so go ahead I would not even bother with another beta in wish because i already play 2 pay to play and have beta in dragons empire which is a vastly superior game so a beta slot for me will be totally wasted anyhow for this game. I think the game is horrible you think its heaven,guess thats why we all have opinon. My opinon is boring,terrible movement,poor graphics for a game coming out in 2005. You opinon is <INSERT> So readers can either listen to you or me or form their own view .
You're opinion is somehow more valid than someone elses when you think you've seen more of the game, but when that person has actually seen more of the game than you (and a hell of a lot more recent), somehow the opinions are equally valid. Gosh, seems like troll logic. Being a hypocrite must be so much fun!
Originally posted by GilGadal I will form my own view as I still have high hopes for this game, it has taken my interest more the Dragon Empires (except I love the fact DE has a strong guild base about the game) Either way I would still like to try them both along with WoW and PotBS and see which one i think is the best. Your actually in the DE beta?? sweet how is it going I am still waiting to be accepted if they ever accept any more testers been waiting so long for that game...not as long as some but still they said they were bringing in a heap of new testers as the weeks go by and then after they say that there is nothing said of it again for ages. Let me play either of those games I am dying down here
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights www.crimsonhellknights.tk
Yep best to form your own view because here you have me saying it sucks anothewr saying its great.
Anyhow about DE well it is still hush hush .Only thing i can say is its main worry is EQ2 and WoW but then again is that not the worry of any game thats not EQ2 or WoW
Warcry "For those unaware, Wish utilizes a point and click interface. This allows for two amazing game mechanics to emerge: 1) A dramatic lack of required network traffic for player movement, and 2) Automatic pathfinding from the player's origin to their destination. The first point is nice, but the second is where Wish absolutely shines."
Gamespy "The pathing in the game is great, though. During our demonstration, our character stood on top of a tall tower high in a huge fortress. Then we clicked on the top of another tower far away. Our character automatically went down a ladder, ran down a set of twisty steps, went out the door, across a courtyard, into another building, up another set up stairs, and up another ladder to reach the point -- all without any more work on our part. That's nice. Of course, monsters can take advantage of the great pathing, too: when they're attacking a town, there's no easy way to hide. They get around!"
Markee Dragon "The pathfinding is awesome and is able to deal with some complex areas all on it's own. I was able to click at a point that was very far away and my character went around trees, walls and even other characters to get there. One click was all it took."
Tazoon.com Akuma: "OK the pathing was fantastic, I just prefer WASD for my MMO's with mouselook..."
I'm going to have to go with Scar on this one...seems even industry people like Warcry and Gamespy agree with him in that the consensus is the pathfinding in Wish doesn't "work horribly", as herc stated earlier.
Even Akuma who admitted not even liking PnC said the pathing was "fantastic".
To each his own though. I thought the Live Story was fantastic, and what's going on in the closed beta atm...people aren't even going to recognize a lot of the game from beta 1.
Most people who didn't like Beta 1 and are so venomous with it I've cvome to find out that they didn't participate in the Live Story, or they are just predisposed to not likeing PnC. Like I said, to each his (or her ) own.
Oh well. Movement systems don't make it or break games for me personally. Content and gameplay do, and Wish is shaping up to have very unique experience.
Personally I feel the point and click system on Wish is a dramatic improvement from holding in a key for long periods of time. Not only does it provide more convenience, but less stress on the server allowing for more bandwidth and support for additional users. If Wish plans to be the UMMORPG it plans to be, then they need all the bandwidth and support they can get. ^^
Point and click movement wouldn't work for combat systems that require real time dodging, movement and skill like that found in Tabula Rasa, D&D Online, and Darkfall. Its fine for clickfests or sandwich combat though. D&D Online for example, allows you to roll to one side, guard against attacks, while Darkfall's magic and long range attacks require actual aiming. Point and click just wouldn't work, and to me that sounds like Wish's combat will be the same old fare.
The only reason why you'd need to hold a key for a long time, is that the game has a lot of useless empty space for you to travel over.
Comments
If your premise is that point and click is restrictive ........ lately ive been realizing how the choice to use it has had a beautiful result.
Consider the massive amounts of information wasd involves. Choosing PnC allowed the developers of this game to unique decisions resulting in improved gameplay. As i have been beta testing i have started to see that like any endevour......the key is what you do with your medium. I believe Wish is poised to deliver an impressive experience for many players because they can do more for your game experience than any wasd system could hope for! If you want more content less skilling more content and more content.........
Wish for it.
Initial it takes some getting used to.
But one of the nice things about it is that you can click then as your running you can look around. Its like being on autorun (say in ac2) but you dont have to re-aim yourself as you run. Plus you can chat, get ready for battle etc
You need to give it a good try before you can say "nuff said"
I like point and click. It allows me to play the game with one hand if I wanted to.
And as said above, it creates alot less lag, because you don't have to transfer nearly as much info.
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Personally I like PnC.
I come from the RPG genre playing Diablo both 1 and 2 being my top favorite games. Also playing Sacred. Although the style of game and perspective is much different I tried out Morrowind and I really didn't like the movement with keys...So I have avioded it since. I just find it too slow. I rather movement with keys for FPS.
So I am all for the PnC and can't wait to test it out next phase
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK
Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights
www.crimsonhellknights.tk
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK
Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights
www.crimsonhellknights.tk
- Lady Pashta
- Lady Pashta
I have played UO, with its mouse based movement system, for 54 months and like it very well. I tried Horizons, which uses the "w-a-s-d" keys for movement, and did not like that system at all. I hated having to use my left hand for movement and having that hand "tied" to one spot on the keyboard. That was one of the reasons I left Horizons after only three weeks.
Personally, I consider a "point and click" mouse movement capability for Wish to be a very big plus. Wish is a RPG computer game, not some kids console game with one of those funky left-hand-movement-only controllers.
A good game should give the user a choice of which movement method the user preferred though.
Just my 2gp worth...
I think PnC= lazy programming.
We keep getting told PnC is the answer to massive number of people been in one area at one time.
However,games like planetside which regularly have 300+ in a small area seems to have no such problems with WASD.DAoC a 3 year old game with seiges have been using WASD with no problems.
Also to say PnC works in wish means you did not play the last stage of it(alpha or beta or whatever they called it).It worked horribly.I could not catch hold of anything due to the useless PnC pathing.
Quite possibly the most ignorant and uniformed post yet.
It's not the answer for getting massive number of people in one area at one time. Either you can't read or can't understand what they are telling you. It's their answer for getting everyone on the same server.
Neither Planetside nor DAoC are trying to put all their people on one server. Come back and talk when they get 10,000+ people on a single server....without zones. And even if there will be a game someday going for all people on the same server, they will STILL save TREMENDOUSLY on the server/client trafic by having PnC.
And to say what you did about their pathfinding questions your very statement of even being in their Beta because even people who hated the game, hated the PnC movement all still agree it was the most advanced pathfinding to date in an MMOG. So maybe it's actually you who havent played the last stage of their Beta.
Point and Click aint bad at all... it's just a different way of doing things. Just because other games use "wasd" doesnt mean this needs to.
I've been using P&C for forever in Ragnarok, easy to get used to. And EVE is click-tastic.
Quite possibly the most ignorant and uniformed post yet.
It's not the answer for getting massive number of people in one area at one time. Either you can't read or can't understand what they are telling you. It's their answer for getting everyone on the same server.
Neither Planetside nor DAoC are trying to put all their people on one server. Come back and talk when they get 10,000+ people on a single server....without zones. And even if there will be a game someday going for all people on the same server, they will STILL save TREMENDOUSLY on the server/client trafic by having PnC.
And to say what you did about their pathfinding questions your very statement of even being in their Beta because even people who hated the game, hated the PnC movement all still agree it was the most advanced pathfinding to date in an MMOG. So maybe it's actually you who havent played the last stage of their Beta.
If you are buying into what they say about PnC been needed for this then thats your problem.
As for your statement that people say its the most advanced pathing to date please show me the link.
If you were not in beta you don't know anything simple as that .Rather then insult me show us a non developer link that says this.
Rather then be a fanboi who obviously has never played the game .Keep quiet about your ignorance and let those that ACTUALLY were in beta speak.
Enuff said.
You're the one being an completely ignorant about the pathfinding and I'm the one who wasnt in beta?
Newsflash, not only was I in Beta 1, but I'm in Beta 1.5 right now, so that would make you the one who doesnt know anything. And you continue to prove it by basing your uniformed opinions off of old (OVER SIX MONTHS OLD) information that you saw (or might not of seeing how you're unexplicably saying their pathfinding sucks).
How about you stop being an uniformed troll and do your own homework for yourself. Plenty of people who hated the PnC spoke glowingly about the Pathfinding...even in beta one. Go find Thorongil who was even tossed from beta 1.0, or Xavori, or Linnet, or joae or tarabelle, all names that you should remember from beta 1.0 (that is IF you were actually in it) and tons others that hated PnC but praised the pathfinding.
And if I'm sounding like a fanboi, it's obvious you're sounding like someone who logged in for 2 seconds said "boo hoo hoo, PnC" and logged back out. Yeah, you're a real beta tester you are.
Seeing how you dont seem to be in Beta 1.5 then you havent seen the upgraded NDL engine, or the new textures for just about everything, the contrast changes, the skill changes, the fact that what you saw (for 5 min) in combat, death, looting, all were placeholders, that rogues werent even in yet, or that crafting wasnt even in yet, that the map has gone enormous teraforming...etc.
Seems like I know more about not only the current beta, but beta 1.0. Go figure. Then by that account you arent in the current beta. That would make you a hypocrite and have to take your own advice....Keep quiet about your ignorance and let those that ACTUALLY are in beta speak.
Clearly the ranting of a fanboi so go ahead
I would not even bother with another beta in wish because i already play 2 pay to play and have beta in dragons empire which is a vastly superior game so a beta slot for me will be totally wasted anyhow for this game.
I think the game is horrible you think its heaven,guess thats why we all have opinon.
My opinon is boring,terrible movement,poor graphics for a game coming out in 2005.
You opinon is <INSERT>
So readers can either listen to you or me or form their own view .
I will form my own view as I still have high hopes for this game, it has taken my interest more the Dragon Empires (except I love the fact DE has a strong guild base about the game)
Either way I would still like to try them both along with WoW and PotBS and see which one i think is the best.
Your actually in the DE beta?? sweet how is it going I am still waiting to be accepted if they ever accept any more testers
been waiting so long for that game...not as long as some but still they said they were bringing in a heap of new testers as the weeks go by and then after they say that there is nothing said of it again for ages. Let me play either of those games I am dying down here 
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK
Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights
www.crimsonhellknights.tk
ChK ';..;' Gil ';..;' ChK
Leader of the Crimson Hell Knights
www.crimsonhellknights.tk
You're opinion is somehow more valid than someone elses when you think you've seen more of the game, but when that person has actually seen more of the game than you (and a hell of a lot more recent), somehow the opinions are equally valid. Gosh, seems like troll logic. Being a hypocrite must be so much fun!
Yep best to form your own view because here you have me saying it sucks anothewr saying its great.
Anyhow about DE well it is still hush hush .Only thing i can say is its main worry is EQ2 and WoW but then again is that not the worry of any game thats not EQ2 or WoW
Even Akuma who admitted not even liking PnC said the pathing was "fantastic".
To each his own though. I thought the Live Story was fantastic, and what's going on in the closed beta atm...people aren't even going to recognize a lot of the game from beta 1.
Most people who didn't like Beta 1 and are so venomous with it I've cvome to find out that they didn't participate in the Live Story, or they are just predisposed to not likeing PnC. Like I said, to each his (or her
) own.
Oh well. Movement systems don't make it or break games for me personally. Content and gameplay do, and Wish is shaping up to have very unique experience.
Point and click movement wouldn't work for combat systems that require real time dodging, movement and skill like that found in Tabula Rasa, D&D Online, and Darkfall. Its fine for clickfests or sandwich combat though. D&D Online for example, allows you to roll to one side, guard against attacks, while Darkfall's magic and long range attacks require actual aiming. Point and click just wouldn't work, and to me that sounds like Wish's combat will be the same old fare.
The only reason why you'd need to hold a key for a long time, is that the game has a lot of useless empty space for you to travel over.