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The unhappy minority
Recant
Member UncommonPosts: 1,586
It's my belief that many of the people that callously claim that WoW is a sub-standard, or below average, or learner MMO are in a category of unfortunate souls that played WoW and were dealt a bad hand. Perhaps they picked a class that didn't suit them, or picked a server type that didn't suit them, and maybe got unlucky with the RNG, and didn't find people they could get along with, etc, etc.... Random chance (or fate if you like) has excluded them from enjoying what 9 million others are enjoying.
They got unlucky, and their experience of WoW is forever tainted. They can try as many classes or servers as they want but they will be always consciously looking for the bad things in the game; and of course finding them, because no MMO will ever be perfect for everyone. In contrast, my old EQ guild is still mostly with me, I meet some of the nicest and maturest people you could ever hope to meet, and being part of a guild striving towards something, or just messing about in a battleground with each other seems as good as it ever was back in the old EQ1 days.
However, the unfortunate souls who were never able to "get WoW" (or "got it" then quickly "lost it") then found another game, such as EQ2, found a class they liked, picked a server that suited them, got some lucky rolls or something, and found people with similar interests.
That would make EQ2 feel like a vastly superior game.
It's impressions like these that unless you're carefully evaluating a game's quality, you'll make bias judgments about the game. These impressions will lead to nothing but misery; look at your average MMORPG.com forum poster; jaded, bitter, burned out, angry at WoW - they vote WoW down as some kind of revenge and say that the community sucks - which to be fair to them, in their experience is probably true. Even though of course this opinion is in stark contrast with the 9 million people (including myself) who absolutely love this game.
There are many random factors in an MMO, meaning that every so often someone is going to have a terrible experience. This was exactly the same as EQ used to be, but because there was no similar MMO to go to; you made efforts to filter out the bad community elements, or parts of the game that sucked. Today the temptation to leave an MMO completely is high because there are so many alternatives out there.
No MMORPG is perfect, and WoW is no exception. There are bits of the game that suck, and if you focus your attention on these parts of the game, then your impression of the quality will suck. It's my belief that other games, have systems that suck as well; EQ2s zoning, EVE's gate camping, Vanguard's performance, EQ2's pretentious community at level 70, EVE's l33t kiddie pirate community, Vanguard's "Go back to WoW noob" community,... I could go on and on.
So at the end of the day, the only person that can really judge if a game is good for you, is yourself. The lesson a lot of you need to learn though, is that once you've found your MMO, doesn't mean that 9 million people are wrong, or are stupid, or are immature, because I assure you they are not.
Simply saying "WoW's community sucks", doesn't make it so. You need to lose some of that bias if you're ever going to be happy with an MMO. Many of these unfortunate souls aren't even playing an MMO - they're not happy or they've got bored with any of them. To these people I offer this advice; don't pray that WAR or AoC or whatever hyped MMO is going to rescue you from your bitterness, because recent history tells us that even the most eagerly awaited MMOs will give a lot of people a bad experience.
Don't hate WoW because it's popular.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Comments
I have never understood why people write essays on this. Its a waste of time. No one ever reads them.
yea the wow community is not the best but its not the worst either, actually its one of the best, sure you get peoples talking shit on the general chat, but most of the time its just WTS, WTB, LFG etc you'll see. same in a group, most people are helpful if you ask a question in general (a question that make sense) you're sure that someones will give you a normal answer.
i found game like EVE (ok i know not all channels), city of heros, guild wars, anarchy online (since its free) to have worst community then wow and im sure theres more.
edit. no xSSx you're a waste of time and people bashing wow, they're just pissed of that wow is succesfull so now they come crying here and post thread like "I'm bored what game should i play" or "why WAR-AoC will pwn wow" etc and also blaming the gfx of wow and the community, and the "grind" that nearly every game have.
who is this post aimed at? its just as much a waste as the 'wow sucks' posts, but thumbs up for the effort
Not trying to flame or anything but, i suggest reading a book or writing a short story than coming here and wasting your time on writing this.......its just a game.
Two years ago I shared your opinion.
you get millions of people buying britney spear music but all you hear on the news its all bad thing about her.
Well, I read it.... still seems like a waste of time to put something like this up... but I'll bite, and spend some time replying to it.
Actually, I think your opinion is biased Recant, you say you play with your friends from EQ 1, so the quality of the game really isn't important to you, anything 'decent' would suit your needs, and WOW certainly classifies as decent.
Me on the other hand, I play them for their content. I could care less about the social aspect of the games. I join guilds in order to accomplish group based objectives, but need them for nothing more. I'm not looking for friends, just fellow gamers interested in mastering the games content.
I played a lot of WOW. Leveled 5 different classes to 60. Explored darn near every part of the game I could, raided through AQ 40 with several different guilds, leveled up my faction (which I abhorred) when necessary and collected many different sets of armor for a variety of purposes. I didn't spend a lot of time doing the PVP, because I didn't enjoy it as implemented in WOW. (I also leveled 2 of my characters on a PVP server, 3 on normal servers, with 4 on the alliance side and 1 on the horde. I had countless lower level alts of course and tried every possible class combo.
So after about 1.75 years of gameplay (I quit once in the middle) I decided that I had done everything I could in WOW and what was left would not entertain me. I'd had enough of raiding, faction grinding, deficient PVP, and gear collecting.
The game lacked, (even after TBC) some key elements that I was looking for, mainly a meaningful end game where players controlled territory or structures, and other players tried to take it away from them. I switched to EVE recently and I'm hoping it will be a bit more to my liking. I also wanted a game where my "class" didn't determine my role in the game. I got so tired of being a "healing-spec'd" Pally, Priest and Druid" and other folks telling me how I had to spec in order to participate in the end game.
Like you said, no game is perfect, they all have their flaws which ultimately lead all folks to walk away from them. For some of us, it just happens sooner than others.... but in the end, you'll join us and move on to another game.... even WOW won't hold your interest forever.
As I said earlier, WOW's a decent game, but it lacks in certain areas (mostly in terms of depth and complexity) that will drive away a certain, more cerebral element of the gaming market.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sigh. Excuse me?
You say that people don't like WoW because they are "unlucky"?
Thread defaulted as utter nonsense right there. There are TOO many factors in games (not just MMOS) that make them enjoyable or unenjoyable by different people.
Heres a biased question to WoW addicts:
What have you achieved in the past month while doing the ever so fun end-game raiding which the supposedly 9 mill playerbase enjoys so much?
Besides losing 12 hours a day. 4 hours of which was setting up a raid.
Yes, that was biased, but also true to some extent. The reason that so many people play it could be down to alot of reasons. I won't list them but its not just that its "the best MMO game ever".
But then again, it's the same with 90% of MMOs. Spend too much time acheiving, very little (End Game). So what really does seperate WoW from others by a huge margin?
Besides, my preference is PvP. Alot of PvP, with risks. Thus, WoW doesn't cut it!
I will try to respond to this the best I can..And also give you my reasons for "hating" the game called World of Warcraft..
You are right in your post, no game becomes any better than what you make of it, If you think it sucks, well then it sucks for you..or if it's great for you, well then it's great..and you will tell these things to your friends and your neighbours..
But ..There are reasons that this game generates some hate that you didn't really mention in your post.
I have played MMORPG's since the start of Ultima Online, and basically I have played them or tried them all since then, including World Of Warcraft..I think WoW is a good game or even a great game..But what got me was the thing that "everyone" in game or outside spoke of it as it was some sort of Holy Grail of games, the best game ever, look it has 9 miljon subscribers !! Can it be nothing but the best game ?
Well, As you said in your post "it is for ther current happy player that thinks so"..But when i constantly has to hear this and see that game stores takes up half the store with Blizzards marketing campaign(that isn't even needed)..It makes me pissed..WoW is a good game, but it sure isn't any better than EQ2 or LOTRO etc..But when you mention these other games for the average WoW players they do not even know of their existance...They refuse to listen or try any other game that hasn't a Blizzard stamp, and they act as if it was Blizzard that invented the MMORPG genre all together ..These ignorant issues annoys me, and ever since WoW has been released it has spred like an evil virus on the internet ever since..
So ...That is my reasons..To hate WoW..But it's a good game..
/Thark
I read it as well...and felt that I just wasted my time. I value peoples opinion but get tired of people saying the same things over and over again...and most of what you said was stating the obvious.
As far as WoW...I enjoyed the game for quite awhile. I still don't see it as a bad game, although The Burning Crusade killed my will to play. But I do find EQ2 a more mature game thats got alot more depth (for pve/gameplay at least) of course thats my opinion and not everyone agrees with me. But my Current dislike for WoW didn't influence in any way my enjoyment of EQ2.
The secrect of WOW's success? Its *extremely* addictive.
Its also *extremely* elitist. If you're not the best at playing your class, willing to spend hours grinding, and able to spend almost every evening raiding, you have little chance of actually finding a guild with which to tackle the end-game content. The repetitive nature of play, and the high time requirements are, to me, the most important factors driving players away. If you don't have the time, or the will, to devote a significant portion of your life to the game, you hit a wall after which there's little content available to you, other than creating new characters and repeating the low-level experience again.
In end-game content players have a constant focus on obtaining the lastest 'epix', an aim which requires hours of preperation before entering the target instance and repeated clearing of 'trash' mobs which serve no purpose other than to extend (paying) playtime, followed by undertaking the same boss fights over and over and over and over. In those precious few seconds when you get that epic you wanted its (for most people) the biggest thrill they get for their entire gaming week. Many people deny being loot-focussed, but its been my experience that for most players, while not neccissarily talking about loot openly, the biggest highs are from getting drops.
At the end of the day, all you've done is spend pay to spend weeks of your life, in many hardcore guilds involving low-to-zero contact with the outside world, to 'obtain' nice looking pixels which for the community are the holy grail of being a good player. A few days later, when you've shown off your new epic to half of the server population, you see someone else with a better item and your obsession starts over until the next drop comes your way and you're happy, for a few hours at least. In that respect, WOW reminds me very much of an addictive drug - the brief and fleeting highs followed by a desperate need to experience that same high again. The same could probably be said about all games, but for WOW at least the high is given by such an insignificant goal of getting in-game items, not enjoying the process.
Given the structure of WOW, the emphasis on end-game 'achievements' over actual enjoyment of the entirity of the game content, gameplay is very repetitive. From the fact that automaed Bots can perform the game's most essential element (grinding), I think its obvious how the developers see the players when designing pre-end-game elements. You grind the same mobs over and over for gold/consumables, go into the same end-game instances over and over, doing the same fights over and over, until everyone has the drops they want and the developers realise they need to add something new for players to obsess over. But, as I said, its addictive, so people are willing to do the same things over and over to satisfy their need for epix.
And before I'm flamed for being a WOW hater, I'm currently a player of the game
QFT
Thread 10/10
On a sidenote I think that Recant is outburned mmorpg player and can't find something there suit him, im affraid.........
Spoils of War - The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
I place most of the blame on the players. People complain endlessly about the system, but read the above stories.. People complain, but STILL spend endless hours grinding away! Much of the playerbase are like "cutters" that are continously stabbing themselves and saying "OUCH THAT HURTS!", but keep on going.
I really don't understand why people complain about the time investments required to be the best (get the gear) in MMO's. It's pretty much a given with todays and tomorrows big MMO's that the people putting in the most time are the people that are going to get the farthest. Does anyone really believe AoC or WAR will be different?
I supposed they should start putting on the boxes system requirements something like:
Recommended Requirements:
- X Processor
- X RAM
- X Video Card
- 6 hours a day of playtime
- Little to no RL contacts.
I mean realistically, that's your High-End WoW raiding guild right there right?
If you are spending more time playing WOW, than you invest in Job, Relationships, etc. You need to throw your computer in the trash!
I think Recant(OP) probably got his epic drop last night and is feeling the high so he had to come and defend his drug. Cheers mate.
I did... And I am one of those people unfortunately. In WoW everything is against me.
-I can't find a class that suits me.
-I wish I would have rolled on a pvp server instead of pve. Too much work starting all over.
-I have the worst luck imaginable with loot. It either doesn't drop at all, or it drops and I get outrolled. So much so that I just decided to take the easy route, and tailor everything I could with my mage. I don't have one pieces of instance gear. Everything I wear is quest rewards and crafted items.
I guess it really isn't all WoW. I have just grown tired of mmorpgs. I've been playing them for about 9 years now (I am 23 btw). I love having other people to compete against, to party with, etc. I am just tired of wasting my life gearing up every time some new instance is released. If you don't, you get left behind, and get your ass handed to you in pvp as well. I have recently decided to just play fps,rts,console games for a while. The addiction that has held me for so long is finally letting up. Until something innovative is released that doesn't take 8 hours a day raiding to be competitive, I will be absent from the mmorpg world.
Playing - Minecraft, 7 Days To Die, Darkfall:ROA, Path of Exile
Waiting for -
Best analogy I have heard to date. And damn if it isn't true.
Playing - Minecraft, 7 Days To Die, Darkfall:ROA, Path of Exile
Waiting for -
I played wow from beta until a month before the release of the burning crusade. I took a break for three months, went back to try the Burning Crusade, and quit after 1.5 months. I've given wow a fair shake and to be honest enjoyed the vast majority of it. There are very very few people who would argue that wow is in general a "bad game", but anyone who has played SWG or EQ or most of the other MMOs out there will agree that WoW is much more "shallow" then other games.
Much of your opinion, of course, comes from what you as an individual gamer find enjoyable for your time. Some people like to raid a lot. Some people like to do smaller group activities. Some like to solo. Some don't give a damn about fighting and want to socialize through crafting or entertaining. To the person who likes to raid, it is easy to dismiss a crafter or an entertainer as unimportant to your gaming experience. Yet it is the crafters and entertainers who give the world life, and a soul, and otherwise enhance the community people live in outside of dungeons. I'll admit that in SWG, I enjoyed going to different cities and different shops to see individual creativity, from the way the city was designed, to cool looking interiors (furniture, art, vendors, weapon and rare item displays, etc.). It may sound a little wierd, and it's not like I focused on it, it's just that the creativity created a much more enjoyable environment then bouncing back and forth between the bank and the auction house in ironforge. So in general, I think that the "non-necessary to a functioning game" aspects such as housing and crafting are sorely lacking in WoW. Unless you've never played a previous MMO, you can't argue much with this statement, although you may disagree on its importance to the gaming world.
Beyond crafting and housing is combat oriented content. Quite simply I quit wow because I am unwilling to spend large blocks of time raiding. The burning crusade seemed like they might be getting away from raid and die, but once the black temple and serpentwhatever was implemented, I just simply quit. Why? Because I knew without a shadow of a doubt that if I wanted to be competitive in the game, I needed to raid. Now, in the "end", the optimal geared characters will have a combination of raid and pvp equipment, thus requiring a long tedius grind up both paths. I simply do not have the time nor the inclination to play such a game. Not because I consider myself unable to complete the challenges (I raided through Naxx), but because I consider raiding a grand and foolish waste of time. Now this doesn't mean that I don't think raids should be in a game. I just don't think they should be the primary focus of the game. Raids turn the game into a job, and for many people that drastically lowers the entertainment value of the game.
I favor a game with much more randomized loot, and especially much more randomized loot distribution. Loot should be available from any monster in the game with the appropriate treasure class in small group, solo, and raid encounters. Obviously ,the drop percentages should be lowered for the amount of people involved. e.g. super sword of destruction would have a drop % of .00001% in solo play, .001% in small groups, .1% in mid size groups, and 1% in raids. Furthermore, this item would drop from the treasure class 13 mobs, which include upper mid level bosses in all dungeons. Obviously, these are numbers out of the air, but you should get the general idea of what's going on here. The larger the group, the better chance you have to find items. Nothing is bind on pickup (although I support bind on equip, and sharable amongst all a player's characters, just not tradeable after equip), and this reintroduces trade through various channels. This sytem allows every single player to at least have a chance at picking up good items, still reinforces a progressive system, and reintroduces trade and player creativity. In essence, my choice in games would be an enhanced Diablo 2 MMO. At least as far as loot distribution goes. There are other concepts that I'd add as well, such as loot distribution through pvp (e.g. pvp level translated to treasure class), and dungeons that scale in difficulty with the number of people in your party. (e.g. you could have dungons that can support anywhere from 1-15 people, and the group could grow/shrink over time with the dungon consistently varying difficulty). All of these ideas add to the concept of a "casual" game that is desireable by "hardcore" players as well. If you play a LOT you'll find a lot more loot, and progressive challenges could be added to the game with even higher drop rates of top loot. With tons of loot in a game (such as more armor slots, more weapon slots, more inventory slots, jewels, more jewel slots, and charms that can be carried in the inventory for passive effects, etc), the "hardcore player" is satisfied as there's just so much loot to get, so many different ways to use it (crafting, trade, personal use, novelty), and high level raid challenges for those interested.
I don't dislike wow because of the community, or because I had a bad drop rate (heck, took two years to get my first epic world drop). No, I dislike wow because it does not meet the standards that I feel MMOs today should meet. Not only should it have a great combat gameplay system, but it really should have the other MMO concepts I've mentioned to be worthy of me paying monthly for it. Blizzard has made so much money in comparison to all the other MMOs out there yet comes out with a tiny fraction of the content. Blizzard has been lazy, and greedy. They could have and should have implemented far more stuff in WoW. The list even goes on, but I think I've got my point across here. In the end, wow is simply not as good as it could be.
Amen brother
There is no game that I have ever played that long. Even EQ and DAoC which I love with all my heart I didn't play that long. Maybe all the time added together in EQ was that long. I only played DAoC for about 1 year.
You're right, though, no game can hold the average person forever. 1.75 years playing is a heck of a testament to a game's greatness.
You dislike WoW? It bores the **** out of you? The expansion was horrible?
And yet you STILL went and levelled up to level 70 anyway? It amazes how many people continually say how bad they think the game is, yet carry on playing it regardless.
HEAR HEAR!! You are absolutely correct and if I could I would shake your hand. World of Warcraft is a DECENT game, it holds your attention for a small period of time but as said, it severely lacks in depth! Im so happy you said all of this Kyleran, saved me some time and energy.