Isn't the big selling point of magic items that they don't decay or break and are always pointy and sharp without having to use a whet stone? In just about every game and book I've ever played or read, this has been the primary focus of magical items.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Hmmm I dont read to much fantasy but I would imagine there is also plots about losing magic items and items breaking / magic failing. Items main selling points are some function or feature they provide.
I wouldnt see them as indestructible. Possibly even mroe destructible give the righrt subtle attacks
I wasn't talking about plots. In most of the descriptions of magic items in books and games, one of the primary characteristics of magic items is that they cannot be destroyed or they can only be destroyed with great sacrifice. It's a common theme throughout the entire fantasy genre. It can't be refuted. Of course there are exceptions, but they are rare and are not considered a common flaw in magic items. Imbuiing items with magic is all about power and durability. The ability for an item to exceeds it's mortal limitations, kind of the same thing it does for people who use magic. It grants them abilities way beyond that of any frail mortal body. If you wan't to follow this logic to it's inevitable conclusion, it doesn't make much sense to have item decay on magical equipment, otherwise, why have it magical at all.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I think that Magic items should decay, but with proper maintainence from a Crafter the destruction of a very good item should be able to be prolonged very long, Think of a sword as a real sword in battle. Lets use Modern terms, and think a bout a Quality Made M16 rifel. Its a great gun, and if its properly maintained it could last through Hundreds of battles. It won't last forever, and its survival is something you can aid in, with quality crafting.
LOL hydro you think your opinion actually matters. coming from someone who hasnt played this game yet. How can u possibly sit here and talk about how well you know the game. ssh. and what funcom are doing, is taking great aspects from lots of their favorite MMO's and making something original yet making the game as deverse as possible. WOW is an incredibly successful game. just cuz u don't like it doesn't mean its shit. if u dont wanna play it go away. dont wanna hear your sh*t. and yeah in an exclusive interveiw it was stated that there wont be any item decay in the game. they decided to leave it out.
Why does everyone idiot want item decay, it's idiotic. There is nothing like this in real life. Your knife and fork don't decay into nothing during your lifetime, yet every single simpleton wants item decay so they can sell the same freaking thing over and over again to the same people. Get a clue, evolve, make something new. Once everyone has one, they don't need a second, make something else. I can't even begin to put into words how excited I am people like you won't be in the game and on the forums posting idiotic things trying to ruin the game.
wow so much hostility... and saying there's no such thing as decay in real life... I lol'd I could just quote the best parts of your own post to sum it up: idiot idiot simpleton idiot
*edit* like they say decay has pros and cons... I loved decay in SWG. I'll buy AoC either way lol.
he was trying to say that in real life. things dont just decay. It takes a long time and shit. But yeah its different weapons cuz ur consistanly hacking shit apart. But yeah back when swords were a common thing. u never had the same sword for ever. it needed to be sharpened after every battle. But its a rare ocassion it would break. I think they should add some kind of decay system but over a long period of time. something to encourage you to upgrade ur armour or watever. Anyways i don't get how people can say the games shit without playing it :S. Like wtf?
There is nothing like this in real life. Your knife and fork don't decay into nothing during your lifetime,
ever heard of rust? and wear marks?
i dont think armour and weapons would stay strong with the crap you guys put em thru. add in the weather and u got a whole lot of dented/weak armour and crappy weapons.
so to sum up there IS decay in real life.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Takes about ten years to sharpen an average blade down past the hard temper, into the softer backbone. Thats daily sharpening. Figure most warriors might be in as many as 50 major battles in that time and prolly another 50 minors. A Fine blade would last a lifetime, which would be from bout age 15 til age 30. Few lived past that. But what really tears a sword up is neglect, useing it improperly, and impacting a finer blade. Armor tears up much quicker and needs constant repair. Now, some blades, and these most will never see or even beleive ever existed, are just perfect and last many lifetimes. Past down from one Warrior to another. Similar to fine Damascan, Japanese, and the unbeleivable, Scandanavian, Rustless Steal, that existed, when many threw rocks, and resides in a boiled lether chest, in Idaho, at a knife makers home, and has been in our family four nearly 3000 years. Or so My Father told me as he had me crank the bellos, while he made skinning knives. Being too far removed from the Family, I will never see it.
If you wan't to follow this logic to it's inevitable conclusion, it doesn't make much sense to have item decay on magical equipment, otherwise, why have it magical at all.
Oh god I have a life and shouldn't be saying this BUT ...Isn't applying logic to mystical processes such as magic .. um... kind of very unmagical and rationale ?
Your point of view is good but I guess I see magic ( yes were arguing about something which doesn't exist / unquantifiable) as fleeting and tranistory between states. What we see as an end ( i.e. ulimate decay) is actually just a change in states.
Maybe a nice study of magic and its relation to physical worlds in "real life" & "fantasy" contexts by MMO developers be a good idea.
Hmm ... *reads above* and I 've not been smoking anything on this post. I need to go out more !
Do most of you guys realize that item decay is just a money sink in many games? Really, it doesn't change anything major within the game.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people fight for it like it is some sort of brilliant mechanic that solves all the problems a game might possibly have. And seriously, why are the carebear crafters so concered with what a PVP game does with items? The main selling point of this game is PVP in all its forms, not the ability to have a highly intricate, time consuming, crafting system. If you want that, go play EQ2. Why does every single freakin game need to conform to your standard of what a "good" MMO is or isn't. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, I don't want you ruining something that makes an attempt and coloring outside the lines.
Do most of you guys realize that item decay is just a money sink in many games? Really, it doesn't change anything major within the game.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people fight for it like it is some sort of brilliant mechanic that solves all the problems a game might possibly have. And seriously, why are the carebear crafters so concered with what a PVP game does with items? The main selling point of this game is PVP in all its forms, not the ability to have a highly intricate, time consuming, crafting system. If you want that, go play EQ2. Why does every single freakin game need to conform to your standard of what a "good" MMO is or isn't. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, I don't want you ruining something that makes an attempt and coloring outside the lines.
You are wrong. On many accounts. First of all, AoConan isnt being advertized, intended nor was it ever as a primarily PvP game. Its meant to be a hybrid, with both sides getting similar attention in the end. Think Guild Wars for example, major PvE, and major PvP (at least in the beginning)
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
Do most of you guys realize that item decay is just a money sink in many games? Really, it doesn't change anything major within the game.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people fight for it like it is some sort of brilliant mechanic that solves all the problems a game might possibly have. And seriously, why are the carebear crafters so concered with what a PVP game does with items? The main selling point of this game is PVP in all its forms, not the ability to have a highly intricate, time consuming, crafting system. If you want that, go play EQ2. Why does every single freakin game need to conform to your standard of what a "good" MMO is or isn't. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, I don't want you ruining something that makes an attempt and coloring outside the lines.
You are wrong. On many accounts. First of all, AoConan isnt being advertized, intended nor was it ever as a primarily PvP game. Its meant to be a hybrid, with both sides getting similar attention in the end. Think Guild Wars for example, major PvE, and major PvP (at least in the beginning)
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
If it's such a non-gear centric game, then why have crafting at all. The whole point of crafting is about gear. Getting gear while adventuring is one of the biggest reward systems in any game. Even UO with it's skill based system relied heavily on gear rewards. You're sadly mistaken if you think for one minute this won't be a gear centric game. I don't think any game could be very successfull with that reward system removed even partially. It might be bearable in a PvP only game, but I highly doubt it.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Item Decay is such a simple concept it boggles the mind to see where people get so tripped up on it
The very simplest and probably one of the better implemented Item Decays systems, was SWG.
You get an Item, with use its durability decays, you repair it but each time the max durability is reduced. Throw in mild stat adjustments as it gets more and more out of disrepair and bam your there.
With a strong player based crafting system you complete the circle.
Crafters just need to be able to make varying degrees of gear as they increase in skill, obtain special materials and such and so forth. We’ve all seen it before.
I will say this thought, the higher the grade of the Crafted Item, the more decay resistant it should be. Likewise with dropped items of higher quality.
As far as repairs go, it should be something players or NPC can do. Of course NPC charge scale depending on the quality and level of the item, but with a player of course it would be negotiable. A player swordsmith may repair items (excluding any materials they may/may not need) for free if they are getting skill raises doing it (assuming the crafting system granted skills raises for repairing gear) or for friends and guild mates. Even if they do charge it would less than NPCs.
Now lets say you have the Decay and Crafting Systems in place.. Guilds would operate in the green constantly if they organized right. People crafting and repairing gear for the guild, accommodating each others skills and interests, while the guild members pitch to help with acquiring resources. Again this is all elementary at this point and has been done before.
Do most of you guys realize that item decay is just a money sink in many games? Really, it doesn't change anything major within the game.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people fight for it like it is some sort of brilliant mechanic that solves all the problems a game might possibly have. And seriously, why are the carebear crafters so concered with what a PVP game does with items? The main selling point of this game is PVP in all its forms, not the ability to have a highly intricate, time consuming, crafting system. If you want that, go play EQ2. Why does every single freakin game need to conform to your standard of what a "good" MMO is or isn't. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, I don't want you ruining something that makes an attempt and coloring outside the lines.
You are wrong. On many accounts. First of all, AoConan isnt being advertized, intended nor was it ever as a primarily PvP game. Its meant to be a hybrid, with both sides getting similar attention in the end. Think Guild Wars for example, major PvE, and major PvP (at least in the beginning)
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
If it's such a non-gear centric game, then why have crafting at all. The whole point of crafting is about gear. Getting gear while adventuring is one of the biggest reward systems in any game. Even UO with it's skill based system relied heavily on gear rewards. You're sadly mistaken if you think for one minute this won't be a gear centric game. I don't think any game could be very successfull with that reward system removed even partially. It might be bearable in a PvP only game, but I highly doubt it.
I think we are using different understandings of the term "item centric". WoW is item-centric, because character progression, power progression and feasibility of content all comes down to having items good enough to do it. Most avenues of advancement are achieved through items (and enchants on them etc.).
Of course, in such a game, a massive item decay isnt going to work out. I dont contest that at all.
Guild Wars, on the other hand, is not item-centric at all. Still, a large part of peoples motivation in this game are drops, items. Whether its a unique look, or a special combination of stats and looks, or a special purpose (for example, a special lightning damage weapon for specific builds was common once upon a time), people have fun, and are motivated, by the reward system of items, without having the game revolve around the power of items at all.
Crafting isnt just about items. There are many players (me not among them, but my girlfriend for example) who love crafting for... well... crafting. And the player interaction of trade, the CREATION of stuff. They dont care whether their sword has +10 or +20 strength, as long as they can make, sell, and generally craft around it.
I think you underestimate (though thats a sweeping conclusion from very little text here, I admit) the variety of motivations people bring to traditional MMOs. Having the best stats and highest DPS is a minor subset.
Item decay does more then that. Item decay thats affected by Battle or More importantly death, will help create a sense of urgency to stay alive. If you know dying will hurt your kick butt gear, you may fight a little harder. Item decay of crafted items, also keep crafters working, and resource gathers will be able to turn a profit. It brings the Trade skills INTO the game more. Rather then just being convient to have a crafter in your guild, you'll almost NEED one. In WOW if you didn't have a crafter, somebody would make you whatever you wanted, for a small fee. Now if crafters were busy, then guildmates would get priority, and thus create more value in those crafters. I remember in the EARLY days of UO, Crafting/Gathering was a goldmine. I remember making viking swords and selling them everywhere. Halbards, Everythng!! Everyone needed weapons. I like decaying items.
People are mistakenly compairing this game to WoW. It's not WoW, and You don't have to compair how drops work. If drops work a certain way here, as long as its consistant it can work. Great gear should drop off mobs, and it will. If it decays, over time then people will KEEP grouping. How many people played WoW, and Got all the gear from BWL, then stopped grouping for raids? A Lot! Theres a flaw to their system. I hope this game isn't totaly gear dependant. I would LOVE to see a game where Crafters can craft a weapon about as good as those that drop. Sure there should be variety in what drops, and maybe somebody likes the way a sword looks, that they need to kill a certain guy to get one. This is what will motivate people to PvE. Just because it decays doesn't mean its not worth having. I don't think gear should break in a few weeks. I think armor and weapons that are well maintained could last a very active adventurer a few months, maybe even a year.
Okay, at the risk of being redundant I am going to address as many criticisms as possible, dating back to my first example of the knife and fork.
1) Your knife and fork don't decay. They don't get "worse" at doing their job. If you bend the knife opening a storm drain, you bend it back. If it becomes dull, you sharpen it. Many places sell pieces ranging from flatware to kitchen knives that will last longer than you (ask your girlfriend or wife, they know where to buy these).
2) All things that are consumed are consumed at different rates, for instance, you don't buy a car as often as you buy toilet paper. So for you to argue that you must buy the car as often as you buy toilet paper is asinine at best. If you have ever bothered to leave the chair you are sitting in now, you can find (used) armor that is several hundred years old, still is good condition. Why? Because STEEL DOESN'T ROT. You bend it back, you reforge it, you pay the blacksmith a few silver and get it fixed. You don't buy a whole new one because all of a sudden it isn't shiny, or somehow it, inexplicably, it is in a million pieces because the warranty ran out.
3) This game DOES sell its self as a PvP, adult, game. The major selling point is how combat will be done, sieges, controlling land. If they thought crafting was the most important thing in the game, they wouldn't give you a class where you have a servant mining / harvesting for you 24/7 while you watch TV and aren't even logged into the game. That's what you're going to be competing against, my NPC alt mining everything for me while I flood the market with resources. Did you ever consider that? Lets say I make two characters (because no one does that!). And I set one to mine 24/7 and the other to flood the market with short swords. In order for your system to work, items would have to decay completely before you even log off for the night. And just wait until the chinese farmers arrive, HAH!
4) If you enjoy crafting, and thats all you plan on doing, go play EQ2, seriously. This isn't going to be the game for you. If I come, and destroy your town, you won't be crafting. If I raid the city your in 24/7, you wont be crafting. If in doing so I amass so many blood coins that I flat out buy the 1337WTFPWNBBQ gear in the game, I wont need to buy a single thing you make. (Of course, this is while my alts flood the market for sadistic purposes).
In closing:
I don't know what kind of game you think this is, but all the energy is being put into make pvp mean something and make it skill based. I don't know where you got the idea that crafters are going to be some sort of staple, that some guild building a city will need someone 24/7 building towers, that no pvper in the guild could be bothered for 10 seconds to build one (especially considering they dont even need to gather the resources).
Okay, at the risk of being redundant I am going to address as many criticisms as possible, dating back to my first example of the knife and fork.
1) Your knife and fork don't decay. They don't get "worse" at doing their job. If you bend the knife opening a storm drain, you bend it back. If it becomes dull, you sharpen it. Many places sell pieces ranging from flatware to kitchen knives that will last longer than you (ask your girlfriend or wife, they know where to buy these). 2) All things that are consumed are consumed at different rates, for instance, you don't buy a car as often as you buy toilet paper. So for you to argue that you must buy the car as often as you buy toilet paper is asinine at best. If you have ever bothered to leave the chair you are sitting in now, you can find (used) armor that is several hundred years old, still is good condition. Why? Because STEEL DOESN'T ROT. You bend it back, you reforge it, you pay the blacksmith a few silver and get it fixed. You don't buy a whole new one because all of a sudden it isn't shiny, or somehow it, inexplicably, it is in a million pieces because the warranty ran out. 3) This game DOES sell its self as a PvP, adult, game. The major selling point is how combat will be done, sieges, controlling land. If they thought crafting was the most important thing in the game, they wouldn't give you a class where you have a servant mining / harvesting for you 24/7 while you watch TV and aren't even logged into the game. That's what you're going to be competing against, my NPC alt mining everything for me while I flood the market with resources. Did you ever consider that? Lets say I make two characters (because no one does that!). And I set one to mine 24/7 and the other to flood the market with short swords. In order for your system to work, items would have to decay completely before you even log off for the night. And just wait until the chinese farmers arrive, HAH! 4) If you enjoy crafting, and thats all you plan on doing, go play EQ2, seriously. This isn't going to be the game for you. If I come, and destroy your town, you won't be crafting. If I raid the city your in 24/7, you wont be crafting. If in doing so I amass so many blood coins that I flat out buy the 1337WTFPWNBBQ gear in the game, I wont need to buy a single thing you make. (Of course, this is while my alts flood the market for sadistic purposes).
In closing: I don't know what kind of game you think this is, but all the energy is being put into make pvp mean something and make it skill based. I don't know where you got the idea that crafters are going to be some sort of staple, that some guild building a city will need someone 24/7 building towers, that no pvper in the guild could be bothered for 10 seconds to build one (especially considering they dont even need to gather the resources).
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
I've been watching this game in development for 2 years now. Personally, my favorite type of mmo is a sandbox game. at the beginning Funcom has pertrayed AoC to be a level based system with several sandbox features. I've watched the game develope all the way from normal type servers to FFA servers. One reason I was excited for this game, was the crafting system. I personally play these games for pvp. its competitive to me, sitting in instance's farming scripted npc boss's is not fun, and Funcom promised that the end game would not be centered around such a method, but instead of several methods for users, from pvp to crafting to world pve, to even tossing in raids for those who enjoy it. But the thing I liked was crafting, never have I been any good at crafting nor done it myself, But I've seen first hand the player based economy that crafting can create with diverse crafting systems, methods and mats that Funcom has portrayed crafting to be. I also liked the fact that raiders won't have the best pvp, in fact, raid gear won't be useful for pvp'ing at all, considering crafting gear and raid gear with be based on 2 seperate total type of statistics they provide the user, 1 being attributed to pvp and the other being attributed to pve. But just recently, Funcom has dropped the bomb. You see, I am a firm believer in item decay and item destruction. It takes the focus off of gear whoring entirely since items will eventually break permantly. Without item destruction, end game becomes focused on just searching for every little upgrade and going long lengths to achieve something so small. Personally i like games where the game is not about such a thing, but being in a diverse world, fighting through controversy amongst other players for domination, but also achieving guild pve accomplishments. Aoc has decided not to go with Item decay ot item destruction. Jayde has flat stated that item decay and item destruction will not be in the game. Im sorry to say, that slowly over the last 6 months, the end game is slowly taking a turn as a wow clone. It appears Funcom is slowly deciding to lean towards some of WoW's methods attempting to take a piece of the pie for subscriptions. there are some many small nick naks that are seperate, such as honor is called blood coins, and you can lose blood coins upon death, unlike honor you couldn't. the end game is the exact same, instance based with only purpose of open world is while leveling, While AoC has different methods then WoW, the ending result is near the same with only BK, FFA, and combat system being different. But at last, it is, near the same. I was very disapointed in Funcom. Near the beginning they wanted a diverse player based economy, However, that has changed. Unforutnatly for crafting to remain a large supplier and in large demand gear cannot be permanent, Once gear is permanent you have a semi usuable crafting system such as WoW, dumbed down and extremely simple. Sorry to say, but this game has turned fourth into a pile of heeping trash in the last 3-6 months.
I dont know if it is true what you are writing. But a game that has crafting and no decay that ends in item destruction is a failure. Either have decay and destruction or remove crafting at all. Everything else is useless to play
Originally posted by Vrazule I wasn't talking about plots. In most of the descriptions of magic items in books and games, one of the primary characteristics of magic items is that they cannot be destroyed or they can only be destroyed with great sacrifice. It's a common theme throughout the entire fantasy genre. It can't be refuted. Of course there are exceptions, but they are rare and are not considered a common flaw in magic items. Imbuiing items with magic is all about power and durability. The ability for an item to exceeds it's mortal limitations, kind of the same thing it does for people who use magic. It grants them abilities way beyond that of any frail mortal body. If you wan't to follow this logic to it's inevitable conclusion, it doesn't make much sense to have item decay on magical equipment, otherwise, why have it magical at all.
I agree as in my earlier post. Item decay on non-magical items could be done though mainly because they don't have the protections of magic or the supernatural. But in keeping with fantasy lore as whole(generalization), items that are of magical nature usually can't be destroyed easily and are most time uncovered after long periods of time of which they held up.
not literal but rough example would be something like... After centuries of searching, the knight found the Sword of PC gaming. It was encircled by a blue aura that looked like a cold cathode. It held up for centuries because it had been imbued with great power from a leet mage hacker named Zero-Cool.
Originally posted by FE|Tachyon I think that Magic items should decay, but with proper maintainence from a Crafter the destruction of a very good item should be able to be prolonged very long, Think of a sword as a real sword in battle. Lets use Modern terms, and think a bout a Quality Made M16 rifel. Its a great gun, and if its properly maintained it could last through Hundreds of battles. It won't last forever, and its survival is something you can aid in, with quality crafting.
Can't think of a MAGIC SWORD IN A REAL BATTLE. Why? Do I really need to answer why? I can however think of a REAL sword in battle and what may happen to it.
My reply is basically the same...if it's magical then it shouldn't be subjected to the same laws as non-magical stuff.
Further, I really don't think that regular crafters' should be the ones fixing magical items anyhow. It should blow up in their face or something. Magic is known about throughout the lands, but if warriors can't practice it(in most mmo's) then crafters shouldn't be able to either. Just my take.
Okay, at the risk of being redundant I am going to address as many criticisms as possible, dating back to my first example of the knife and fork.
1) Your knife and fork don't decay. They don't get "worse" at doing their job. If you bend the knife opening a storm drain, you bend it back. If it becomes dull, you sharpen it. Many places sell pieces ranging from flatware to kitchen knives that will last longer than you (ask your girlfriend or wife, they know where to buy these). 2) All things that are consumed are consumed at different rates, for instance, you don't buy a car as often as you buy toilet paper. So for you to argue that you must buy the car as often as you buy toilet paper is asinine at best. If you have ever bothered to leave the chair you are sitting in now, you can find (used) armor that is several hundred years old, still is good condition. Why? Because STEEL DOESN'T ROT. You bend it back, you reforge it, you pay the blacksmith a few silver and get it fixed. You don't buy a whole new one because all of a sudden it isn't shiny, or somehow it, inexplicably, it is in a million pieces because the warranty ran out. 3) This game DOES sell its self as a PvP, adult, game. The major selling point is how combat will be done, sieges, controlling land. If they thought crafting was the most important thing in the game, they wouldn't give you a class where you have a servant mining / harvesting for you 24/7 while you watch TV and aren't even logged into the game. That's what you're going to be competing against, my NPC alt mining everything for me while I flood the market with resources. Did you ever consider that? Lets say I make two characters (because no one does that!). And I set one to mine 24/7 and the other to flood the market with short swords. In order for your system to work, items would have to decay completely before you even log off for the night. And just wait until the chinese farmers arrive, HAH! 4) If you enjoy crafting, and thats all you plan on doing, go play EQ2, seriously. This isn't going to be the game for you. If I come, and destroy your town, you won't be crafting. If I raid the city your in 24/7, you wont be crafting. If in doing so I amass so many blood coins that I flat out buy the 1337WTFPWNBBQ gear in the game, I wont need to buy a single thing you make. (Of course, this is while my alts flood the market for sadistic purposes).
In closing: I don't know what kind of game you think this is, but all the energy is being put into make pvp mean something and make it skill based. I don't know where you got the idea that crafters are going to be some sort of staple, that some guild building a city will need someone 24/7 building towers, that no pvper in the guild could be bothered for 10 seconds to build one (especially considering they dont even need to gather the resources).
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
Assuming your comment about opinions is true, then yours doesn't smell like roses either. As for item decay, not a single person has put forth any evidence suggesting that it is necessary. Some of the most intricate crafting games don't have item decay at all (this includes EvE online and EQ2). If you don't think EvE online has intricate crafting, try looking at what is required to build any T2 ship. Now, you could argue that you lose ships in eve (and you do, when it's blown up) but you don't lose it over time due to "wear and tear". And they have arguably the most complex player driven economy of any MMO, and it functions just fine without item decay.
I can think of only one game that has item decay and 10 that don't, so clearly it isn't even the norm. So here is my challenge to you, I need clear cut examples of how a game economy was ruined because it lacked item decay, the more the better, and some sort of coherent argument other than "no item decay sux0rz". WoW doesn't count because crafting was / is never ment to be any sort of staple, raiding is where they want all the gear to come from, intentionally or not. No one buys crafted gear there not because they already have it, but because they can get something better for free.
Originally posted by ulberon Originally posted by FE|Tachyon Originally posted by ulberon Okay, at the risk of being redundant I am going to address as many criticisms as possible, dating back to my first example of the knife and fork.
1) Your knife and fork don't decay. They don't get "worse" at doing their job. If you bend the knife opening a storm drain, you bend it back. If it becomes dull, you sharpen it. Many places sell pieces ranging from flatware to kitchen knives that will last longer than you (ask your girlfriend or wife, they know where to buy these). 2) All things that are consumed are consumed at different rates, for instance, you don't buy a car as often as you buy toilet paper. So for you to argue that you must buy the car as often as you buy toilet paper is asinine at best. If you have ever bothered to leave the chair you are sitting in now, you can find (used) armor that is several hundred years old, still is good condition. Why? Because STEEL DOESN'T ROT. You bend it back, you reforge it, you pay the blacksmith a few silver and get it fixed. You don't buy a whole new one because all of a sudden it isn't shiny, or somehow it, inexplicably, it is in a million pieces because the warranty ran out. 3) This game DOES sell its self as a PvP, adult, game. The major selling point is how combat will be done, sieges, controlling land. If they thought crafting was the most important thing in the game, they wouldn't give you a class where you have a servant mining / harvesting for you 24/7 while you watch TV and aren't even logged into the game. That's what you're going to be competing against, my NPC alt mining everything for me while I flood the market with resources. Did you ever consider that? Lets say I make two characters (because no one does that!). And I set one to mine 24/7 and the other to flood the market with short swords. In order for your system to work, items would have to decay completely before you even log off for the night. And just wait until the chinese farmers arrive, HAH! 4) If you enjoy crafting, and thats all you plan on doing, go play EQ2, seriously. This isn't going to be the game for you. If I come, and destroy your town, you won't be crafting. If I raid the city your in 24/7, you wont be crafting. If in doing so I amass so many blood coins that I flat out buy the 1337WTFPWNBBQ gear in the game, I wont need to buy a single thing you make. (Of course, this is while my alts flood the market for sadistic purposes).
In closing: I don't know what kind of game you think this is, but all the energy is being put into make pvp mean something and make it skill based. I don't know where you got the idea that crafters are going to be some sort of staple, that some guild building a city will need someone 24/7 building towers, that no pvper in the guild could be bothered for 10 seconds to build one (especially considering they dont even need to gather the resources).
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
Assuming your comment about opinions is true, then yours doesn't smell like roses either. As for item decay, not a single person has put forth any evidence suggesting that it is necessary. Some of the most intricate crafting games don't have item decay at all (this includes EvE online and EQ2). If you don't think EvE online has intricate crafting, try looking at what is required to build any T2 ship. Now, you could argue that you lose ships in eve (and you do, when it's blown up) but you don't lose it over time due to "wear and tear". And they have arguably the most complex player driven economy of any MMO, and it functions just fine without item decay.
I can think of only one game that has item decay and 10 that don't, so clearly it isn't even the norm. So here is my challenge to you, I need clear cut examples of how a game economy was ruined because it lacked item decay, the more the better, and some sort of coherent argument other than "no item decay sux0rz". WoW doesn't count because crafting was / is never ment to be any sort of staple, raiding is where they want all the gear to come from, intentionally or not. No one buys crafted gear there not because they already have it, but because they can get something better for free.
Comments
Isn't the big selling point of magic items that they don't decay or break and are always pointy and sharp without having to use a whet stone? In just about every game and book I've ever played or read, this has been the primary focus of magical items.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Hmmm I dont read to much fantasy but I would imagine there is also plots about losing magic items and items breaking / magic failing. Items main selling points are some function or feature they provide.
I wouldnt see them as indestructible. Possibly even mroe destructible give the righrt subtle attacks
I wasn't talking about plots. In most of the descriptions of magic items in books and games, one of the primary characteristics of magic items is that they cannot be destroyed or they can only be destroyed with great sacrifice. It's a common theme throughout the entire fantasy genre. It can't be refuted. Of course there are exceptions, but they are rare and are not considered a common flaw in magic items. Imbuiing items with magic is all about power and durability. The ability for an item to exceeds it's mortal limitations, kind of the same thing it does for people who use magic. It grants them abilities way beyond that of any frail mortal body. If you wan't to follow this logic to it's inevitable conclusion, it doesn't make much sense to have item decay on magical equipment, otherwise, why have it magical at all.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I think that Magic items should decay, but with proper maintainence from a Crafter the destruction of a very good item should be able to be prolonged very long, Think of a sword as a real sword in battle. Lets use Modern terms, and think a bout a Quality Made M16 rifel. Its a great gun, and if its properly maintained it could last through Hundreds of battles. It won't last forever, and its survival is something you can aid in, with quality crafting.
LOL hydro you think your opinion actually matters. coming from someone who hasnt played this game yet. How can u possibly sit here and talk about how well you know the game. ssh. and what funcom are doing, is taking great aspects from lots of their favorite MMO's and making something original yet making the game as deverse as possible. WOW is an incredibly successful game. just cuz u don't like it doesn't mean its shit. if u dont wanna play it go away. dont wanna hear your sh*t. and yeah in an exclusive interveiw it was stated that there wont be any item decay in the game. they decided to leave it out.
so.. go die.
die
wow so much hostility... and saying there's no such thing as decay in real life... I lol'd
I could just quote the best parts of your own post to sum it up: idiot idiot simpleton idiot
*edit* like they say decay has pros and cons... I loved decay in SWG. I'll buy AoC either way lol.
he was trying to say that in real life. things dont just decay. It takes a long time and shit. But yeah its different weapons cuz ur consistanly hacking shit apart. But yeah back when swords were a common thing. u never had the same sword for ever. it needed to be sharpened after every battle. But its a rare ocassion it would break. I think they should add some kind of decay system but over a long period of time. something to encourage you to upgrade ur armour or watever. Anyways i don't get how people can say the games shit without playing it :S. Like wtf?
die
i dont think armour and weapons would stay strong with the crap you guys put em thru. add in the weather and u got a whole lot of dented/weak armour and crappy weapons.
so to sum up there IS decay in real life.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Takes about ten years to sharpen an average blade down past the hard temper, into the softer backbone. Thats daily sharpening. Figure most warriors might be in as many as 50 major battles in that time and prolly another 50 minors. A Fine blade would last a lifetime, which would be from bout age 15 til age 30. Few lived past that. But what really tears a sword up is neglect, useing it improperly, and impacting a finer blade. Armor tears up much quicker and needs constant repair. Now, some blades, and these most will never see or even beleive ever existed, are just perfect and last many lifetimes. Past down from one Warrior to another. Similar to fine Damascan, Japanese, and the unbeleivable, Scandanavian, Rustless Steal, that existed, when many threw rocks, and resides in a boiled lether chest, in Idaho, at a knife makers home, and has been in our family four nearly 3000 years. Or so My Father told me as he had me crank the bellos, while he made skinning knives. Being too far removed from the Family, I will never see it.
Oh god I have a life and shouldn't be saying this BUT ...Isn't applying logic to mystical processes such as magic .. um... kind of very unmagical and rationale ?
Your point of view is good but I guess I see magic ( yes were arguing about something which doesn't exist / unquantifiable) as fleeting and tranistory between states. What we see as an end ( i.e. ulimate decay) is actually just a change in states.
Maybe a nice study of magic and its relation to physical worlds in "real life" & "fantasy" contexts by MMO developers be a good idea.
Hmm ... *reads above* and I 've not been smoking anything on this post. I need to go out more !
Do most of you guys realize that item decay is just a money sink in many games? Really, it doesn't change anything major within the game.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people fight for it like it is some sort of brilliant mechanic that solves all the problems a game might possibly have. And seriously, why are the carebear crafters so concered with what a PVP game does with items? The main selling point of this game is PVP in all its forms, not the ability to have a highly intricate, time consuming, crafting system. If you want that, go play EQ2. Why does every single freakin game need to conform to your standard of what a "good" MMO is or isn't. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, I don't want you ruining something that makes an attempt and coloring outside the lines.
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
If it's such a non-gear centric game, then why have crafting at all. The whole point of crafting is about gear. Getting gear while adventuring is one of the biggest reward systems in any game. Even UO with it's skill based system relied heavily on gear rewards. You're sadly mistaken if you think for one minute this won't be a gear centric game. I don't think any game could be very successfull with that reward system removed even partially. It might be bearable in a PvP only game, but I highly doubt it.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Item Decay is such a simple concept it boggles the mind to see where people get so tripped up on it
The very simplest and probably one of the better implemented Item Decays systems, was SWG.
You get an Item, with use its durability decays, you repair it but each time the max durability is reduced. Throw in mild stat adjustments as it gets more and more out of disrepair and bam your there.
With a strong player based crafting system you complete the circle.
Crafters just need to be able to make varying degrees of gear as they increase in skill, obtain special materials and such and so forth. We’ve all seen it before.
I will say this thought, the higher the grade of the Crafted Item, the more decay resistant it should be. Likewise with dropped items of higher quality.
As far as repairs go, it should be something players or NPC can do. Of course NPC charge scale depending on the quality and level of the item, but with a player of course it would be negotiable. A player swordsmith may repair items (excluding any materials they may/may not need) for free if they are getting skill raises doing it (assuming the crafting system granted skills raises for repairing gear) or for friends and guild mates. Even if they do charge it would less than NPCs.
Now lets say you have the Decay and Crafting Systems in place.. Guilds would operate in the green constantly if they organized right. People crafting and repairing gear for the guild, accommodating each others skills and interests, while the guild members pitch to help with acquiring resources. Again this is all elementary at this point and has been done before.
"It is my nature", said the Scorpion to the Frog
Carebear Crafters? Whats that? I didnt know crafting was so deadly, and you could hide from that. Putting random derogative terms into a post is a sign of idiocy. (<--- nice randomly made up fact, isnt it?)
Item Decay isnt what you think it is. Its not having 100/100 Durability on an item, one day its down to 1/100 and you have to pay 20 silver coins to repair it. That is Item Repair/Maintenance. Item Decay, as a game design concept, is to remove over time items in the game by having the number of them, or their quality, decay.
Example: You have a sword. Over time, this sword gets used, it "decays" meaning it doesnt just lose durability, it loses stats, until its finally not a very useful weapon anymore. You can repair it, but it doesnt reach 100% of its old quality anymore.
Item Decay is not just a matter of crafting having a market or not. Its a matter of balance, of item over-saturation, of the focus (or not) on item-centric gameplay (in a system where your Uber-Sword of Doom decays, its not just about having the lucky roll one day, and from then on slaughtering anything in your way) and so on.
In a game like WoW, item decay makes no sense... the games driving features revolve around achieving, and retaining said achievment. In a game like Age of Conan, item decay makes a LOT of sense, since it supposedly isnt a gear-centric game, has a deep crafting system, AND is concerned about the PvP-balance of itemization. Decay helps a lot there.
If it's such a non-gear centric game, then why have crafting at all. The whole point of crafting is about gear. Getting gear while adventuring is one of the biggest reward systems in any game. Even UO with it's skill based system relied heavily on gear rewards. You're sadly mistaken if you think for one minute this won't be a gear centric game. I don't think any game could be very successfull with that reward system removed even partially. It might be bearable in a PvP only game, but I highly doubt it.
I think we are using different understandings of the term "item centric". WoW is item-centric, because character progression, power progression and feasibility of content all comes down to having items good enough to do it. Most avenues of advancement are achieved through items (and enchants on them etc.).Of course, in such a game, a massive item decay isnt going to work out. I dont contest that at all.
Guild Wars, on the other hand, is not item-centric at all. Still, a large part of peoples motivation in this game are drops, items. Whether its a unique look, or a special combination of stats and looks, or a special purpose (for example, a special lightning damage weapon for specific builds was common once upon a time), people have fun, and are motivated, by the reward system of items, without having the game revolve around the power of items at all.
Crafting isnt just about items. There are many players (me not among them, but my girlfriend for example) who love crafting for... well... crafting. And the player interaction of trade, the CREATION of stuff. They dont care whether their sword has +10 or +20 strength, as long as they can make, sell, and generally craft around it.
I think you underestimate (though thats a sweeping conclusion from very little text here, I admit) the variety of motivations people bring to traditional MMOs. Having the best stats and highest DPS is a minor subset.
Item decay does more then that. Item decay thats affected by Battle or More importantly death, will help create a sense of urgency to stay alive. If you know dying will hurt your kick butt gear, you may fight a little harder. Item decay of crafted items, also keep crafters working, and resource gathers will be able to turn a profit. It brings the Trade skills INTO the game more. Rather then just being convient to have a crafter in your guild, you'll almost NEED one. In WOW if you didn't have a crafter, somebody would make you whatever you wanted, for a small fee. Now if crafters were busy, then guildmates would get priority, and thus create more value in those crafters. I remember in the EARLY days of UO, Crafting/Gathering was a goldmine. I remember making viking swords and selling them everywhere. Halbards, Everythng!! Everyone needed weapons. I like decaying items.
People are mistakenly compairing this game to WoW. It's not WoW, and You don't have to compair how drops work. If drops work a certain way here, as long as its consistant it can work. Great gear should drop off mobs, and it will. If it decays, over time then people will KEEP grouping. How many people played WoW, and Got all the gear from BWL, then stopped grouping for raids? A Lot! Theres a flaw to their system. I hope this game isn't totaly gear dependant. I would LOVE to see a game where Crafters can craft a weapon about as good as those that drop. Sure there should be variety in what drops, and maybe somebody likes the way a sword looks, that they need to kill a certain guy to get one. This is what will motivate people to PvE. Just because it decays doesn't mean its not worth having. I don't think gear should break in a few weeks. I think armor and weapons that are well maintained could last a very active adventurer a few months, maybe even a year.
Okay, at the risk of being redundant I am going to address as many criticisms as possible, dating back to my first example of the knife and fork.
1) Your knife and fork don't decay. They don't get "worse" at doing their job. If you bend the knife opening a storm drain, you bend it back. If it becomes dull, you sharpen it. Many places sell pieces ranging from flatware to kitchen knives that will last longer than you (ask your girlfriend or wife, they know where to buy these).
2) All things that are consumed are consumed at different rates, for instance, you don't buy a car as often as you buy toilet paper. So for you to argue that you must buy the car as often as you buy toilet paper is asinine at best. If you have ever bothered to leave the chair you are sitting in now, you can find (used) armor that is several hundred years old, still is good condition. Why? Because STEEL DOESN'T ROT. You bend it back, you reforge it, you pay the blacksmith a few silver and get it fixed. You don't buy a whole new one because all of a sudden it isn't shiny, or somehow it, inexplicably, it is in a million pieces because the warranty ran out.
3) This game DOES sell its self as a PvP, adult, game. The major selling point is how combat will be done, sieges, controlling land. If they thought crafting was the most important thing in the game, they wouldn't give you a class where you have a servant mining / harvesting for you 24/7 while you watch TV and aren't even logged into the game. That's what you're going to be competing against, my NPC alt mining everything for me while I flood the market with resources. Did you ever consider that? Lets say I make two characters (because no one does that!). And I set one to mine 24/7 and the other to flood the market with short swords. In order for your system to work, items would have to decay completely before you even log off for the night. And just wait until the chinese farmers arrive, HAH!
4) If you enjoy crafting, and thats all you plan on doing, go play EQ2, seriously. This isn't going to be the game for you. If I come, and destroy your town, you won't be crafting. If I raid the city your in 24/7, you wont be crafting. If in doing so I amass so many blood coins that I flat out buy the 1337WTFPWNBBQ gear in the game, I wont need to buy a single thing you make. (Of course, this is while my alts flood the market for sadistic purposes).
In closing:
I don't know what kind of game you think this is, but all the energy is being put into make pvp mean something and make it skill based. I don't know where you got the idea that crafters are going to be some sort of staple, that some guild building a city will need someone 24/7 building towers, that no pvper in the guild could be bothered for 10 seconds to build one (especially considering they dont even need to gather the resources).
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
I dont know if it is true what you are writing. But a game that has crafting and no decay that ends in item destruction is a failure. Either have decay and destruction or remove crafting at all. Everything else is useless to play
I agree as in my earlier post. Item decay on non-magical items could be done though mainly because they don't have the protections of magic or the supernatural. But in keeping with fantasy lore as whole(generalization), items that are of magical nature usually can't be destroyed easily and are most time uncovered after long periods of time of which they held up.
not literal but rough example would be something like... After centuries of searching, the knight found the Sword of PC gaming. It was encircled by a blue aura that looked like a cold cathode. It held up for centuries because it had been imbued with great power from a leet mage hacker named Zero-Cool.
Can't think of a MAGIC SWORD IN A REAL BATTLE. Why? Do I really need to answer why? I can however think of a REAL sword in battle and what may happen to it.
My reply is basically the same...if it's magical then it shouldn't be subjected to the same laws as non-magical stuff.
Further, I really don't think that regular crafters' should be the ones fixing magical items anyhow. It should blow up in their face or something. Magic is known about throughout the lands, but if warriors can't practice it(in most mmo's) then crafters shouldn't be able to either. Just my take.
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
Assuming your comment about opinions is true, then yours doesn't smell like roses either. As for item decay, not a single person has put forth any evidence suggesting that it is necessary. Some of the most intricate crafting games don't have item decay at all (this includes EvE online and EQ2). If you don't think EvE online has intricate crafting, try looking at what is required to build any T2 ship. Now, you could argue that you lose ships in eve (and you do, when it's blown up) but you don't lose it over time due to "wear and tear". And they have arguably the most complex player driven economy of any MMO, and it functions just fine without item decay.
I can think of only one game that has item decay and 10 that don't, so clearly it isn't even the norm. So here is my challenge to you, I need clear cut examples of how a game economy was ruined because it lacked item decay, the more the better, and some sort of coherent argument other than "no item decay sux0rz". WoW doesn't count because crafting was / is never ment to be any sort of staple, raiding is where they want all the gear to come from, intentionally or not. No one buys crafted gear there not because they already have it, but because they can get something better for free.
Your oppinion, luckly oppinions are like buttholes everyones got one, and they all stink if you ask me! Joking aside if you think weapons don't get destroyed in battle your crazy. If you ruin the rifleing of a gun, you don't fix it, you replace the barrel. If you break a blade of a sword, you could try and reforge it, but steel will lose its strength after forged too many times. If you don't like item decay oh well, others do. I find that people that love a persistant world thats constantly changing like item decay. If you want to log on and have the same gear when you top out at level and get bored on that toon to reroll another, then another, then quit because you've already done everything and got your top end gear, what else is there to get? Item decay isn't a bad thing.
Assuming your comment about opinions is true, then yours doesn't smell like roses either. As for item decay, not a single person has put forth any evidence suggesting that it is necessary. Some of the most intricate crafting games don't have item decay at all (this includes EvE online and EQ2). If you don't think EvE online has intricate crafting, try looking at what is required to build any T2 ship. Now, you could argue that you lose ships in eve (and you do, when it's blown up) but you don't lose it over time due to "wear and tear". And they have arguably the most complex player driven economy of any MMO, and it functions just fine without item decay.
I can think of only one game that has item decay and 10 that don't, so clearly it isn't even the norm. So here is my challenge to you, I need clear cut examples of how a game economy was ruined because it lacked item decay, the more the better, and some sort of coherent argument other than "no item decay sux0rz". WoW doesn't count because crafting was / is never ment to be any sort of staple, raiding is where they want all the gear to come from, intentionally or not. No one buys crafted gear there not because they already have it, but because they can get something better for free.
I agree.