Rogues becoming so powerful? Agree or disagree?

Crestguard

I read recently in the PC Gamer article that rogues will be highly useful for manipulating the heroic opportunities (or combo wheel as it's been dubbed) and can be the only class that can mass evac a group and now can even move them unnoticed passed aggro'ing mobs.

Now the real question is, if rogues are still going to be massive damage dealers with backstabbing skills and attack opportunities for being hidden or behind the monster AND necessary for picking locks to better hunting areas AND able to pick pocket monsters to snag a bit more loot than the rest of the group, is this going to cause for a heavy rush of people to the rogue lifestyle?

I'm not sure if I'm looking into it too much, but it will be that a rogue would be necessary for hunting or raiding and they may just be a bit unbalanced, but it seems that SOE is trying to keep them balanced, so this leads to another bit I've been wondering about...  if rogues are getting so much goodness and fun, are other classes going to be getting unexpected new skills and abilities or or rogues going to be the lucky ones and come out on top?  Sorry, but it's just been on my mind and I'm curious as to what other people are thining too.

DaShiz

Though this does seem a bit extreme, it is just something that is a special ability localized to rouges that are called Heroic Opportunities. I know I just stated the same thing you did just slightly different, but hey! This is a class specific ability, and all classes will have there special abilities, and I would be willing to bet that there are some out there that are much more extreme than this one. But they only reveled some of one classes abilities in this article. I wouldnt worry too much about wondering if rouges can still dish out damage, EQII is still esentially following the "Ideal" skill type for the same old character classes. What I mean is yes they will still deal opportunistic damage in large quantities. All of this is still to be tested so dont worry too much there will be alot of nerfing along the way to release for the abilities that are overly powerful.

styles74

 

Ya I think that its just too soon to tell.  And plus isn't this the job of us beta-testers to help determine?

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Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

Oscar Wilde

Eowade

I also believe it is too early to make a determination.  Not much in depth has been released about any of the other classes.  They may have skills themselves that balance out the whole Rogue thing.

Guild Historian

The Technicians of Justice

Crestguard

I think you're missing my point.  I was saying in addition to having the ability to change the HO's and the large damage dealing rogues are THE ONLY CLASS that will be able to mass evac, and can also move entire groups hidden and unnoticed by mobs.  I think that, in addition to the other stuff, makes it unbalanced.

styles74

 

I do actually get your point.  As you describe it, the rogue may play too much of a crucial role.  But MY point is that all of this is up in the air until beta and feedback and balancing.  if the rogue can bust all of that off come september and the other classes cant compensate, then yea there might be problems.

but its still too soon to tell.

_________________________

Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

Oscar Wilde

Billius8

I think I read somewhere that rogues will not be the DPS kings that they were in EQLive.  They can fight, just not as well as a fighter type, but their special abilities make them invaluable to a group.

Crestguard

True, beta may be able to fix these problems, and if the rogues are not huge damage dealers then it may work out even better to make it a level playing field.  I was not complaining, if it sounded like I was.  I've been planning on being a guardian, I was just unsure how damage dealing would go.  Since I know some fighters are meant to do it, but generally tanks absorb damage, not deal it.  Wasn't sure if scouts would be doing that, or they will be left to stealth and assisting in preventing the group from being ambushed...

Misti

There is not even close to enough information to know at this point imo. 

I dont think those skills listed make the rogue all that powerful anyway.  Each of the 4 archetypes will have a vital role to play as they have indicated.

Edit:  Sounds like the article you read was incorrect as well.  If you look on the official site under magic you will see most of the casters get group evac spells.

Crestguard

I tried replying to that but for some reason the website was giving me trouble, I hope this isn't a multi-post.  Anyway...

I had checked the site for magic a while ago and I had no remembered seeing any casters being able to port, but upon a second look after your post I see that illusanists, wardens and oddly enough, shadowknights, are all able to group evac.  Though I wouldn't consider that "most of the casters" I still think that it is enough to keep the rogues from having an unfair advantage.

I'm surprised that this far along that PC Gamer would give false or fabricated information, but they said "A rogue is also the only class that can mass-evacuate a group that's bitten off more than it can chew..."

Guess we'll have to get some info from the dev chat tomorrow...

Billius8

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Originally posted by Crestguard

I tried replying to that but for some reason the website was giving me trouble, I hope this isn't a multi-post.  Anyway...
I had checked the site for magic a while ago and I had no remembered seeing any casters being able to port, but upon a second look after your post I see that illusanists, wardens and oddly enough, shadowknights, are all able to group evac.  Though I wouldn't consider that "most of the casters" I still think that it is enough to keep the rogues from having an unfair advantage.
I'm surprised that this far along that PC Gamer would give false or fabricated information, but they said "A rogue is also the only class that can mass-evacuate a group that's bitten off more than it can chew..."
Guess we'll have to get some info from the dev chat tomorrow...

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I talked about that point (i.e., rogues evac'ing instead of casters) with a friend and concluded that it made some sense to a degree that a rogue could usher his or her group through a hidden door and out of danger.  It kind of make sense.  Did not Aragorn the ranger, from the LOTR, spend 80% of his time getting his group to safety?  ("Here, this way, we have to hurry!")  Maybe that's what is symbolized with the new evac instead of the traditional magic teleport spell.

Crestguard

Oh, I agree.  I think that rogues have too much power and are not looked at as more support and stealth.  A scout is typically a character that surveys the land, looks for enemies and tries to help with strategy.  That is why the rogue is getting the chance to have more heroic opporunities and the group evac would make sense.  But if they also had the chance to do tremendous back stabbing damage it might make an abundence of them.  Damn PC Gamer for confusing us like this...

Misti

I think as we see more information released many of the early misconceptions will be cleared up.  I doubt PC Gamer intended to confuse but SoE is being pretty tight lipped at this point. 

If you look at it from the four main class groups each one gets an evac and thats just from the small sampling of spells revealed so far.

Sks are from the warrior group, Wardens from the priest group, illusionists from the mage group and whatever class from the scout group that PC Gamer indicates.

Imo a rogue doing great backstab damage and being able to help a group evac just doesnt seem all that unbalanced or even impressive.  Each group of the four core classes will be vital to a group. 

Its mostly assumption at this point but if we are going to presume I would think the following makes these roles for the rogue nothing more special then the others.

You arent going to survive long without a mage for crowd control as there is no more FD pulling and monsters are frequently encountered in linked groups.  You wont be making it far without a priest for healing.  A warrior is pretty much essential to tank for most groups.  If anything a rogue still seems the most optional of the four though one thats great to have.

In the original EQ a cleric a tank and an enchanter were often thought of as the grand or holy trinity because they were next to essential for the best groups for survivability, ability to go to the hardest dungeons and do it all without a lot of down time and such.  It seems they are just trying to raise the fourth group (rogues) to a level that they will be as key to a successful group.

I think there are many surprises in store for us though as to how group mechanics work which we will learn closer to release.

Crestguard

You bring up a vry valid point, but I had not heard FD pulling would be gone.  Is that for sure??  What are monks going to have now??  Granted they were sick damage dealers but FD'ing was so much fun, and so so so helpful!  Wow, strategies definately will need to be altered.  I can't friggin wait any longer!

metalfoxus

yeah, i want to be a swashbuckler, but i dont wanna be passed up when parties are looking for people. I hope they make it so us scouts can deal a good amount of damage, what i DONT want it to end up like is this for example:

Priest: "hey, we got one spot left in the party, lets look for someone!"

Fighter: "Sure! hmm.... theres a swashbuckler... they're OKAY i guess... hmm.... bah lets take another fighter instead!"

Me:

Serien

Yes as a matter of fact i was reading that in PC gamer and pondering the same thing...

"Rogue's are going to be needed for all groups"

it seems like they're pushing everyone to be a rogue, it's gonna be like the archers in LIneage II...

TOO MANY!

visionner

Ive always played a rogue type character in every MMORPG ive played, Theyre just so fun to roleplay, and they are fun to play in general because they usually get crazy skills and abilities. Thing about the scout class is, u can become a predator then assassin, which is probably a good DPS kinda character. But u can also become a rogue --> swashbuckler/brigand?. I think those two will be more support and just crazy thieving, lockpicking skills than a DPS kind of character.

So basically, assassin = backstab, good DPS , not good at roguish skills

and swashbuckler/brigand = thieving, lock picking, traps stuff, and average DPS.

I think thats what it will come down to. But well have to wait till the dev chat or maybe even beta.. so ya.

visionner

Ive always played a rogue type character in every MMORPG ive played, Theyre just so fun to roleplay, and they are fun to play in general because they usually get crazy skills and abilities. Thing about the scout class is, u can become a predator then assassin, which is probably a good DPS kinda character. But u can also become a rogue --> swashbuckler/brigand?. I think those two will be more support and just crazy thieving, lockpicking skills than a DPS kind of character.

So basically, assassin = backstab, good DPS , not good at roguish skills

and swashbuckler/brigand = thieving, lock picking, traps stuff, and average DPS.

I think thats what it will come down to. But well have to wait till the dev chat or maybe even beta.. so ya.

kanzen

Monks aren't specifically a damage dealer class in EQ2.  No fighter is designed to specifically be a dps machine.  They're all designed to tank.  They have similar dps, and similar tanking ability.  It will depend on the situation, what you're fighting, etc.  But in the end no one should generally tank by another, regardless of how they get there. ;p

I believe rogues are going to end up sort of like samurai in FFXI.  Samurai had semi decent dps of their own, but easily outdamaged by a number of classes-- however, a samurai would shine with skillchains.  He could start and maintain two skillchains, which open opportunities for not only skillchain damage but also magic bursts.  Samurai were more opportunist attackers than sheer damage like a monk.

raptorfalcon

I have seen many articles about details in EQ2 just to be changed later.. I think that is just too soon to tell wether rogues will be over powered.

Gyphon

HAHA (shakes head)

I can't believe that someone is throwing a fit already just because there has been about 7 lines of talk discribing one class and some skills that were not gone into detail about.

Gimme a break

I've been a rogue in eq since beta 3 and have ridden out each incarnation of the class from broken melee to actually wanted in a group. Please please please don't start something about a class no one knows a dang thing about yet.

Good lord...( If your from Sony and actually reading these boards....IGNORE THE COMMENTS ABOUT OVERPOWERED ROGUES PLEASE )

/snicker

Gyphon The Rogue "Xev"

 

 

Crestguard

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Originally posted by Gyphon

I can't believe that someone is throwing a fit already just because there has been about 7 lines of talk discribing one class and some skills that were not gone into detail about. 

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Throwing a fit?  Guess you are new to the boards.  This is called a discussion.  One person brings up something they heard and describes (note proper spelling) their feelings and thoughts about the topic, and then asks how other people feel.  That is all that was done, you obviously disagree, and no wonder... you've played rogues, that's called being biased.  No need to act like an idiot due to it.