I pretty much think that VG was never anything special. The only reason so many people bought the box was because it was new and nothing else was out at the time.
DnL is still up and running. If 2k people are playing, and NPcube (or whoever they are) are willing to keep it going then it hasn't failed.
I can't believe you think DnL is NOT a failure.
At the very least its "success" was built on its being one of the most brazen and blatant SCAMS in MMO history!
I didn't give MY opinion on DnL.
You quoted what I said. Not what I think about the game itself.
Determining if an MMO has failed is real simple.
Are the servers up? If so, it hasn't failed.
Are the servers down? If so, it failed.
It's rather black and white with MMO's. A failed one doesn't keep running.
The issue wasn't success. It was failure. VG wasn't a success, but it hasn't failed until SoE cuts the power off.
Sigil failed. VG is owned by SoE. Drawing lines between VG and Sigil ended when SoE purchased Sigil. VG didn't shut down when SoE aquired Sigil.
Just because you don't like or play the game doesn't mean it failed to the people that do. It's only got to do one thing. Entertain enough people to keep it alive. VG is currently doing that. Whether or not it continues to do so is anyones guess, and only time will tell.
Edit: Horizons failed, AC2 failed, Earth and Beyond failed, Auto Assualt failed. All of those games were shut down.
It is a moot issue (the conclusion we reach will be of little or no consequence). Vanguard is not Dark and Light (pun intended). It is not a black or white question. Rather, it is not a binary question: success or failure? It is a success for many; it is a failure for many. Any discussion of the matter will be a profound rhetorical exercise in futility, laden with personal insults and perspectives of opinion that many believe to be fact.
Perhaps we can reach agreement on the following to resolve this matter:
Was the release of Vanguard a failure? Yes.
Is Vanguard a commercial failure? Unknown.*
Is Vanguard a creative failure? Some say yes, while others say no; still others say both.
*SIGIL was a commercial failure, but now SOE is responsible for VG's commercial success.
Is healz4u part of soe's viral marketing or just an soe fanboi? Some say yes, while others say no; still others say both.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
It was a total bad business choice letting SOE touch it after the stunt they pulled with SWG, and the gaming community up in anger boycott SOE and all of that other stuff.
It is a moot issue (the conclusion we reach will be of little or no consequence). Vanguard is not Dark and Light (pun intended). It is not a black or white question. Rather, it is not a binary question: success or failure? It is a success for many; it is a failure for many. Any discussion of the matter will be a profound rhetorical exercise in futility, laden with personal insults and perspectives of opinion that many believe to be fact.
Perhaps we can reach agreement on the following to resolve this matter:
Was the release of Vanguard a failure? Yes.
Is Vanguard a commercial failure? Unknown.*
Is Vanguard a creative failure? Some say yes, while others say no; still others say both.
*SIGIL was a commercial failure, but now SOE is responsible for VG's commercial success.
I think the problem is much more complex then your three choices.
If i have to choose one, then its a creative failure. All things done while Parkinson was art director is good. Then he sadly died and WoW was born. Not exactly at the same time, but close. From there on the game lost its identity. Today the game has two faces. One shows the initial idea (not vision !!) and the other face shows the poor try to adapt to the mass market WoW created.
DnL is still up and running. If 2k people are playing, and NPcube (or whoever they are) are willing to keep it going then it hasn't failed.
I can't believe you think DnL is NOT a failure.
At the very least its "success" was built on its being one of the most brazen and blatant SCAMS in MMO history!
I didn't give MY opinion on DnL.
You quoted what I said. Not what I think about the game itself.
Determining if an MMO has failed is real simple.
Are the servers up? If so, it hasn't failed.
Are the servers down? If so, it failed.
It's rather black and white with MMO's. A failed one doesn't keep running.
The issue wasn't success. It was failure. VG wasn't a success, but it hasn't failed until SoE cuts the power off.
Sigil failed. VG is owned by SoE. Drawing lines between VG and Sigil ended when SoE purchased Sigil. VG didn't shut down when SoE aquired Sigil.
Just because you don't like or play the game doesn't mean it failed to the people that do. It's only got to do one thing. Entertain enough people to keep it alive. VG is currently doing that. Whether or not it continues to do so is anyones guess, and only time will tell.
Edit: Horizons failed, AC2 failed, Earth and Beyond failed, Auto Assualt failed. All of those games were shut down.
I totally get what you're saying, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Since my opinion on what constitutes a 'failure' is rather different from your own.
For you, failure = Vanguard shuts down. So since it hasn't shut down it is not a failure.
For me, failure = Vanguard does not fulfill the goals and standards they set for themselves. Not what anybody else set for them but what they held THEMSELVES to. Since Brad and Co. have admitted that the game they made was not the game they imagined / promised others to be, then for me it is a failure.
Right now Vanguard is not dead (obviously) but I still consider it a failure, because they flunked their own standards. If SOE comes out tomorrow and says, here are our new goals and measures of success, 30k subs and content updates 2x a year, THEN I would actually consider Vanguard to be not a failure.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW. -BarCrow
Comments
I pretty much think that VG was never anything special. The only reason so many people bought the box was because it was new and nothing else was out at the time.
D.
Vanguard would have been something special if they had delivered on their ideas. Sigil didn't deliver, I really doubt SoE can.
If there was one line that summed up why VG is currently a creative failure... yup its the above.
At the very least its "success" was built on its being one of the most brazen and blatant SCAMS in MMO history!
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
Yes but on that logic DnL didn't fail as a scam, it seemed to work rather well (for them)
I can't believe you think DnL is NOT a failure.At the very least its "success" was built on its being one of the most brazen and blatant SCAMS in MMO history!
I didn't give MY opinion on DnL.
You quoted what I said. Not what I think about the game itself.
Determining if an MMO has failed is real simple.
Are the servers up? If so, it hasn't failed.
Are the servers down? If so, it failed.
It's rather black and white with MMO's. A failed one doesn't keep running.
The issue wasn't success. It was failure. VG wasn't a success, but it hasn't failed until SoE cuts the power off.
Sigil failed. VG is owned by SoE. Drawing lines between VG and Sigil ended when SoE purchased Sigil. VG didn't shut down when SoE aquired Sigil.
Just because you don't like or play the game doesn't mean it failed to the people that do. It's only got to do one thing. Entertain enough people to keep it alive. VG is currently doing that. Whether or not it continues to do so is anyones guess, and only time will tell.
Edit: Horizons failed, AC2 failed, Earth and Beyond failed, Auto Assualt failed. All of those games were shut down.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Umm..yeah..It failed. No doubt about it.
Is healz4u part of soe's viral marketing or just an soe fanboi? Some say yes, while others say no; still others say both.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
It was a total bad business choice letting SOE touch it after the stunt they pulled with SWG, and the gaming community up in anger boycott SOE and all of that other stuff.
Very very stupid move by sigil.
If i have to choose one, then its a creative failure. All things done while Parkinson was art director is good. Then he sadly died and WoW was born. Not exactly at the same time, but close. From there on the game lost its identity. Today the game has two faces. One shows the initial idea (not vision !!) and the other face shows the poor try to adapt to the mass market WoW created.
At the very least its "success" was built on its being one of the most brazen and blatant SCAMS in MMO history!
I didn't give MY opinion on DnL.
You quoted what I said. Not what I think about the game itself.
Determining if an MMO has failed is real simple.
Are the servers up? If so, it hasn't failed.
Are the servers down? If so, it failed.
It's rather black and white with MMO's. A failed one doesn't keep running.
The issue wasn't success. It was failure. VG wasn't a success, but it hasn't failed until SoE cuts the power off.
Sigil failed. VG is owned by SoE. Drawing lines between VG and Sigil ended when SoE purchased Sigil. VG didn't shut down when SoE aquired Sigil.
Just because you don't like or play the game doesn't mean it failed to the people that do. It's only got to do one thing. Entertain enough people to keep it alive. VG is currently doing that. Whether or not it continues to do so is anyones guess, and only time will tell.
Edit: Horizons failed, AC2 failed, Earth and Beyond failed, Auto Assualt failed. All of those games were shut down.
I totally get what you're saying, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Since my opinion on what constitutes a 'failure' is rather different from your own.
For you, failure = Vanguard shuts down. So since it hasn't shut down it is not a failure.
For me, failure = Vanguard does not fulfill the goals and standards they set for themselves. Not what anybody else set for them but what they held THEMSELVES to. Since Brad and Co. have admitted that the game they made was not the game they imagined / promised others to be, then for me it is a failure.
Right now Vanguard is not dead (obviously) but I still consider it a failure, because they flunked their own standards. If SOE comes out tomorrow and says, here are our new goals and measures of success, 30k subs and content updates 2x a year, THEN I would actually consider Vanguard to be not a failure.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow