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POLL: Should SOE Terminate Vanguard?
healz4u
Member Posts: 1,065
DISCLAIMER: I do not seek to offend or annoy current players of Vanguard. I admire most of you, enjoyed your company when I played the game. I raise this question to generate a serious and mature discussion on the matter. Ultimately, I raise to the question to ask whether or not SOE would be better off focusing on EQ 2, SWG and possibly a SWG 2?
What is Termination?
Termination for Vanguard is committing a minimal amount of resources to the project to maintain it with infrequent patches and updates after the release of Update 2. If Update 2 and the free trial fail to reach a certain benchmark with subscription increases, the project should receive a reduction of resources and support.
The Purpose of Termination?
To ensure that Everquest 2 and Star Wars Galaxies receive the resources, capital, human talent, and additional support they need to be competitive games. AoC/WAR will steal Vanguard's population. Vanguard is most-likely not going to be a formidable competitor to these two games. Everquest 2 is and can be a formidable competitor to AoC/WAR and other games. Everquest 2 is simply superior in content, graphics, gameplay, features, character customization, lore, and in all other aspects to LotR and WoW. Vanguard is inferior in all these aspects to Everquest 2.
Where Should the Resources from Vanguard Go?
1)
SWG is one awesome game. SOE should either ensure the continued improvement of SWG or begin developing a SWG 2 and dominant the sci-fi MMORPG market.
2)
EQ 2 is a formidable competitor. I do not think it requires additional support. Nevertheless, resources should or could be committed to ensure it remains a competitor.
Comments
Kill it, Kill SWG... make SWG2
kthxbai
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
SOE has enough employees that they can afford to send a few Vanguard's way. I'm going to say that I think this will be a pretty competitive and high quality game in about 6-8 months, and might really make a strong come back. Lots of other games coming out around that time frame though, too.
http://mmoreinsight.wordpress.com -- A Glimpse Into The World of Massively Multiplayer Games.
I would go for Aion - and by then Vanguard would be DEAD anyway, kill it now!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Great analysis. I completely agree with you. I am not sure if it will require 6 to 8 months or 16 to 20 months. However, by that time the game is fixed and finished and enhanced/improved, it will be competing with other major titles. [And, assuming agruendo, these titles have positive releases, I do not know how Vanguard will be able to financially sustain itself or a population.] As a result of poor marketing, a terrible release, bad press, and so forth, my confidence that it could be a competitor is extremely low.
A Star Wars Galaxies 2, with the pre-NGE depth of character customization and things, would be one successful MMORPG.
Oh dear I think you may have touched a few raw nerves here . A couple of minor issues ... SWG 'was' an awesome game, it certainly is'nt now & well I dont think the Vanguard community are going to be voting yes to your idea do you ? Also do you honestly think that SoE didnt consider their commercial position before they spent a load of cash on Vanguard ? They dont throw money away for the sake of it do they !?
I vote that this is a bit of a pointless thread tbh as speaking as someone who has played Vg it probably has a future if they clean it up but personally for me it has missed its chance.
/waits for the flames to commence but if thats what you wanted to achieve anyway then I suppose its well played
True... VERY ture
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
I'm not sure..... I haven't played EQ 2 so I don't really have any sort of opinion about how good the game really is. Many folks are like Healz... they think its a great game...of course, a minority of people don't like it as well...probably true for ever decent game so that's no indicator.
The real question is... can VG's code be fixed? Having worked in SD for over 20 years now, I can assure you, some applications are coded so poorly it is more efficient to just shut them down and replace them with something that is done correctly the first time.
If VG and EQ2 really are fairly similar in terms of the game experience they offer, my first thought would be to shut VG down and devote resources to EQ 2.
But then again, EQ 2 suffers from the same disease that VG did...a bad launch which translates to an opportunity lost that really can't be recovered. Maybe they should put both games into limited maintenance mode and work on developing a new game that is bug free, really good and tons of fun to play. That route is more likely to translate to major financial success at this time I think.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You is right ! but i still say KILL IT!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Isn't it in termination mode already?
Would people please stop talking about an SWG2 MMORPG
as I log on to my regular gaming sites everyday hoping to find news of such a thing .
I'm not sure when SoE's license expires for Galaxies but if I was Lucasarts I'd be courting the best development team out there to make it within a 3 year timescales of said license expiry date to make sure that Galaxies 2 is launched as soon as it is commercially possible.
What a game it could be and you dont even have to research a potential playerbase as everyone who played Galaxies would play it plus some ,especially if SoE were'nt involved.
I don't think SWG or EQ2 will have an effect on VG.
Mainly because people like myself play these games on the station pass, thus VG will get played regardless of how good the other two games are.
I myself play SWG and VG, with more SOE games coming, station pass will become more and more important.
Plus VG is a very different game to EQ2, different in that it appeals to different types of players. I hate instancing and a number of other things which I don't want to argue about which exist in EQ2.
VG success or failure lies in two areas:
1. Pursuading old players to come back, either because they left due to 50th level and no content or game stablity. Performance changes make the game more playable for a new generation of 14 trialists.
2. Enough content changes to keep people interested.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I started laughing and stopped reading after that line.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
I started laughing and stopped reading after that line.
I started laughing and stopped reading here. LOTRO fanbois are funny.
Then again, it is funny to read that EQ2 is better than WoW and LOTRO, seeing as they are the same game, of course its better than both of them.
BTW, in its present state, VG falls way below even LOTWoWO, I mean, LOTRO, hehe, I vote no to killing VG, yes to SWG 2 under new dev team.
They obviously are developing and realeasing other new games instead on focusing on SWG or EQ2.
And you also have an expansion incoming for EQ2
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Great analysis. I completely agree with you. I am not sure if it will require 6 to 8 months or 16 to 20 months. However, by that time the game is fixed and finished and enhanced/improved, it will be competing with other major titles. [And, assuming agruendo, these titles have positive releases, I do not know how Vanguard will be able to financially sustain itself or a population.] As a result of poor marketing, a terrible release, bad press, and so forth, my confidence that it could be a competitor is extremely low.
A Star Wars Galaxies 2, with the pre-NGE depth of character customization and things, would be one successful MMORPG.
1) SOE has announced already that they will be doing a re-launch, the magnitude of which they have not said, but the SOLE purpose of such a relaunch would be to rectify all of the emphasized points. I think adressing these points is something they have already addressed in their 'plan for the game'
2) I think SOE (from what I've read) have stepped on too many toes to be able to viably do a SWG anything, so I don't see SOE SWG2 being even remotely plausible....
but hey, what do I know, i'm loading up Vanguard as I type this.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
How can they not be focused on EQ2 yet be releasing an expansion?
I remember healz doing a post with a rimbombant title about Soe taking over Sigil:
GOOD NEWS THE PROFESSIONALS ARE HERE, SOE TAKES OVER SIGIL...
With a funny an incredible list about the super amazing improvements SOE was about to make in Vanguard..
lol.
Your post seems to contradict itself.How can they not be focused on EQ2 yet be releasing an expansion?
Yes... Weird huh?
Keep in mind the spirit of that OPost the poll. Then also notice that despite that, that they are releasing and developing other games they manage to put out an expansion to EQ2.
That makes me think "maybe they have enough and big resources given to EQ2" and if needed would give more regardless of Vanguard. Heck they even through around a quite generous offer to former EQ2 and VG players.
So I'm saying despite of Vanguard I'm not afraid for SWG or EQ2 that was the topic I replied to.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
In Healz defence, I think it was a time of optimism for anyone who really wanted the game to succeed, and SoE did have a laundry list of fixes that were going to happen.
I mean the game was (is) in serious trouble, I also wanted SoE to come across with that huge list of improvements, i was just too cynical to believe it, heh.
Tick tock Sony, tick tock...
I think they should just shut down both of these horribly made games and call it a rest.
Hey wait you wants to and tries to deny alot of people their fun, closing their game and all.
Guess what it seems you will be denied your fun aswell. How about that for irony.
-----------
Don't worry EQ2/SWG and VG will still be around.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Your post seems to contradict itself.How can they not be focused on EQ2 yet be releasing an expansion?
Yes... Weird huh?
Keep in mind the spirit of that OPost the poll. Then also notice that despite that, that they are releasing and developing other games they manage to put out an expansion to EQ2.
That makes me think "maybe they have enough and big resources given to EQ2" and if needed would give more regardless of Vanguard. Heck they even through around a quite generous offer to former EQ2 and VG players.
So I'm saying despite of Vanguard I'm not afraid for SWG or EQ2 that was the topic I replied to.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
Thanks for the clarification.
I did not anticipate the responses to the poll to be what they are. I think it indicates a lot of hope and perhaps even optimism still remains for Vanguard. After playing LotR, I liked Vanguard more. From returning to WoW (briefly), I liked Vanguard more. However, after playing Everquest 2, I lost confidence in Vanguard to be enhanced and improved in a way to overcome its bad release and incompleteness and become a commercial success.
After playing EQ 2 and SWG --the best games in the market, in my judgment-- I think EQ 2 is better positioned to compete with the upcoming releases of AoC/WAR. Further, SOE has an excellent sci-fi mmorpg with SWG, which is slowly moving in a preNGE direction. SOE could enhance SWG or develop a SWG 2 to dominant the sci-fi MMORPG market. The opportunity for an outstanding sci-fi MMORPG exists, the market for it exists, and I think SOE could do it. Whether or not terminating Vanguard is necessary is unknown, but whether or not Vanguard could become viable creatively and commercially to AoC/WAR seems improbable.
The priorities, from a business perspective, might place SOE in a better position if they were focused on SWG, SWG 2, and/or EQ 2.
Winner..
I agree...SOE are far better off focusing on their successful products, especially EQ2, then trying to repair The Trainwreck. I think its just a complete waste of their time and resources now, we all know Vanguard is now burdened with a disastrous and irrepairable reputation that will stick with it forever (just look at EQ2 its the best MMORPG right now but its taken 3+ years to recover from a horrible launch, and still hasn't reach its full potential cause of its poor first impression) I first thought maybe 6 months to a year VG would recover (lol) but there's too much superior competition on the horizon. Just take the thing off life support and move on to more successful and less embarassing projects.