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class action lawsuit.... whos in?
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Does any one happen to have that ASCII art picture that is the guy with his hand on his forehead?
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
Printing something on your log-in page or game box that seems to divest a consumer of his or her rights, does not IN FACT divest him or her of those rights.
Here's another example to make this more clear, if you go to the local go-kart track, and they have you sign a disclaimer saying that you are participating solely at your own risk, and you're injured, you would THINK you have no rights to sue for medical costs pain and suffering etc. because of the disclaimer. That is the purpose of the disclaimer, to make you THINK you have no rights.
In actual fact, if the go-kart track was guilty of negligence, and their negligence (e.g. poorly maintained equipment) caused your injury, you CAN still sue them for their negligence.
Disclaimers DO NOT (caps for clarity here) allow companies to get away with negligence or fradulent misrepresentation of their product or service. Don't believe everything a company prints on their box or website. In fact some of the MMO disclaimers EULA's etc. are honest enough to say that certain points may not be legally binding in certain states.
As for those that think this is about a video game, I think you're missing the point. This is about a company that knowlingly misrepresented a service to obtain the money of hundreds of thousands of people. Instead of delivering the paid for service, they removed things paid for, and delivered something else, that incidently didn't work.
Now some people see this as only applying to the ToOW expansion, and this is the clearest example. Refunds are good, but punitive damages can also be sought ON TOP of refunds for the hassle and disappointment that all of this caused people.
Let's look at another example. Early adverstisements in magazines etc. (still have them) enticed people to buy the game, saying that they could unravel the mystery of the jedi. Some people bought the game for this reason, and played for 2 years to unravel this mystery, and unlock a jedi character. After achieving this however, and spending 2 years worth of time and money, the abilities and features they "unravelled/unlocked" were largely deleted. AND, those things that weren't deleted were made available to everyone at login. In other words, the 2 year investment of time and money that was made based on company advertisement was for absolutely nothing.
Remember this isn't about a video game. If you think it is, you're in the wrong thread. It's about coporate politics, making money (real money) by misleading consumers intentionally, and a company having people give them money for a promised outcome that was rendered moot. Take this out of the video game context if that makes it easier to understand. I believe that companies that do this to consumers should be held accountable for their actions. If companies are allowed to get away with these kinds of business practices, the consumer is in for a very rough ride.
So if a judge asks why legal action was delayed, many could rightly say, well I thought the EULA meant I was S.O.L., then I read some posts by some lawyer and realized that the EULA is just another way SOE was trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
Another thing that has slowed down any legal action is the psychological manipulation and out right abuse that gets heaped on anyone who even hints at sticking up for their rights as a consumer.
Anyone who doesn't just lie down and accept what SOE has done to them is called all sorts of nasty names, told they have no life, told they're delusional, told that legal action is impossible, told that legal action is unattainable, told that they're making a big fuss over a simple video game, told that they should stop beating a dead horse etc. etc. etc.. Well if some people are wronged, they're not so quick to let things go until a sense of justice has been satisfied, and obviously for some people this hasn't happened yet.
If you don't have any taste for legal jargon, just skip to the red letters. I believe this leaves the door open for discussion, and clearly indicates the limitations of the EULA. So people that keep saying the EULA allows SOE to get away with anything they want, should really, really read the red letters:
"10. SOE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state. "
AND
"12. IN NO EVENT SHALL SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY LOST PROFITS OR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR ACCOUNT, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME OR THIS AGREEMENT INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY AND – TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW – DAMAGES FOR PERSONAL INJURY, EVEN IF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES OR LOSS. THE LIABILITY OF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR ANY OF THEIR PARENT OR AFFILIATED COMPANIES TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES IS LIMITED TO $100. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO EQUITABLE RELIEF INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS TO ENFORCE THE TERMS HEREOF; HOWEVER, THE FOREGOING SHALL NOT PRECLUDE SOE AND/OR ITS LICENSORS FROM SEEKING ANY INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY, SO THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU." (quotations taken directly from the Terms of Use for StarWars Galaxies, as they currently appear on the starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com webpage, red font added by the poster for emphasis)
This is a very important point in this discussion. I hope every time defenders of SOE's dishonest business practices start shouting "EULA EULA!", this gets highlighted.
I'm still not pushing for legal action personally, but one grows tired of people trying to defend SOE's lies with....more lies or misleading statements.
I Dont get angry too often.
Not over a game. Swg yes, but it was much more than a game.
Im not angry at SOE. I would want nothing more than to see them be the best company in the industry to be honest. I want to be playing a game made by them.. But even if they delivered everything I wanted, what would be the point if their greed only brought about the same end. Not everything on video game forums should be taken at face value though the discussion Is important.
I thought you stopped in to chat..seems like I was mistaken. And thank you for letting me vent. I appreciate it.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
People hear this and remember it well as I deal with "jargon" on a daily basis....
SOE nor ANYONE for that matter can EVER take away your right to SUE them. I don't care if they have 40 pages of implied legal language that appears to give them complete and total authority to do whatever it is they like...
Everyone has the right to sue and that cannot be undermined by what is written on the back of a box. SOE could have ABSOLUTELY been taken to court over what they did to their paying customerbase in November of 2005. Whether or not the classaction suit would have won is unknown.
If you don't have any taste for legal jargon, just skip to the red letters. I believe this leaves the door open for discussion, and clearly indicates the limitations of the EULA. So people that keep saying the EULA allows SOE to get away with anything they want, should really, really read the red letters:
"10. SOE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state. "
AND
"12. IN NO EVENT SHALL SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY LOST PROFITS OR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR ACCOUNT, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME OR THIS AGREEMENT INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY AND – TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW – DAMAGES FOR PERSONAL INJURY, EVEN IF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES OR LOSS. THE LIABILITY OF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR ANY OF THEIR PARENT OR AFFILIATED COMPANIES TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES IS LIMITED TO $100. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO EQUITABLE RELIEF INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS TO ENFORCE THE TERMS HEREOF; HOWEVER, THE FOREGOING SHALL NOT PRECLUDE SOE AND/OR ITS LICENSORS FROM SEEKING ANY INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY, SO THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU." (quotations taken directly from the Terms of Use for StarWars Galaxies, as they currently appear on the starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com webpage, red font added by the poster for emphasis)
This is a very important point in this discussion. I hope every time defenders of SOE's dishonest business practices start shouting "EULA EULA!", this gets highlighted.
I'm still not pushing for legal action personally, but one grows tired of people trying to defend SOE's lies with....more lies or misleading statements.
Okay, now explain tort laws. Explain what "damages" occured through their "dishonest" business practices. Sony's rootkit caused actual damage by compromising the security of many, many PC's. The success of the class action lawsuit R.E. the rootkit was based on provable, actual damages. If you can't prove damages, you're not going to collect a judgement, unless you have a different understanding of tort law. Suing SoE for changing the fundaments of gameplay is nothing like this, it's more along the lines of suing a local sports team because they traded away all the good players for crappy ones and lost a championship game. It's not actionable. Sure, you can waste the money to retain and attorney and file, but there's no way whatsoever you're going to get a judgement, and any lawyer with half a brain will realize this.
A "real" internet lawyer would know that the most important section of the EULA as it applies to a class action suit against SoE is:
2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.
It is common and acceptable industry practice to make changes to gameplay throughout the lifespan of a game and while they made some pretty awful changes in terms of gameplay with CE, they did not cause you or your computer harm, they did not stop your access to their services. Did SoE make a bad business decision? Of course they did. Is it actionable? No. You can throw out the name calling and other immature responses people use to shout down those they disagree with, but this is reality of the situation and holding on to this rage is completely unhealthy. Just stop buying their products and move on with your life, there are plenty of other MMORPG's and you aren't hurting anyone but yourself by holding on to this anger and engaging in fantasy based revenge plots.
If you don't have any taste for legal jargon, just skip to the red letters. I believe this leaves the door open for discussion, and clearly indicates the limitations of the EULA. So people that keep saying the EULA allows SOE to get away with anything they want, should really, really read the red letters:
"10. SOE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state. "
AND
"12. IN NO EVENT SHALL SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY LOST PROFITS OR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR ACCOUNT, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME OR THIS AGREEMENT INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY AND – TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW – DAMAGES FOR PERSONAL INJURY, EVEN IF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES OR LOSS. THE LIABILITY OF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR ANY OF THEIR PARENT OR AFFILIATED COMPANIES TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES IS LIMITED TO $100. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO EQUITABLE RELIEF INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS TO ENFORCE THE TERMS HEREOF; HOWEVER, THE FOREGOING SHALL NOT PRECLUDE SOE AND/OR ITS LICENSORS FROM SEEKING ANY INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY, SO THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU." (quotations taken directly from the Terms of Use for StarWars Galaxies, as they currently appear on the starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com webpage, red font added by the poster for emphasis)
This is a very important point in this discussion. I hope every time defenders of SOE's dishonest business practices start shouting "EULA EULA!", this gets highlighted.
I'm still not pushing for legal action personally, but one grows tired of people trying to defend SOE's lies with....more lies or misleading statements.
Okay, now explain tort laws. Explain what "damages" occured through their "dishonest" business practices. Sony's rootkit caused actual damage by compromising the security of many, many PC's. The success of the class action lawsuit R.E. the rootkit was based on provable, actual damages. If you can't prove damages, you're not going to collect a judgement, unless you have a different understanding of tort law. Suing SoE for changing the fundaments of gameplay is nothing like this, it's more along the lines of suing a local sports team because they traded away all the good players for crappy ones and lost a championship game. It's not actionable. Sure, you can waste the money to retain and attorney and file, but there's no way whatsoever you're going to get a judgement, and any lawyer with half a brain will realize this.
A "real" internet lawyer would know that the most important section of the EULA as it applies to a class action suit against SoE is:
2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.
It is common and acceptable industry practice to make changes to gameplay throughout the lifespan of a game and while they made some pretty awful changes in terms of gameplay with CE, they did not cause you or your computer harm, they did not stop your access to their services. Did SoE make a bad business decision? Of course they did. Is it actionable? No. You can throw out the name calling and other immature responses people use to shout down those they disagree with, but this is reality of the situation and holding on to this rage is completely unhealthy. Just stop buying their products and move on with your life, there are plenty of other MMORPG's and you aren't hurting anyone but yourself by holding on to this anger and engaging in fantasy based revenge plots.
I don't feel any rage at all actually, and tbh I've made my peace with SOE outside of legal channels. I'm not engaging in any revenge fantasies, just participating in a thought provoking discussion on consumer rights.
One thing I disagree with in your post though is the idea that SOE's business practices were "common and acceptable." Changes in the lifespan of a game that are common would be minor changes to "balance" combat, or adding content through expansions. You see this all the time in City of Heroes and Villains for example. Also other games truly do "enhance" their graphics over time for example. SOE, in contrast, removed dozens of professions, skills and animations, and called this a game "enhancement." True game enhancements are common and acceptable. What SOE did was neither. Calling it an enhancement, doesn't mean it really was. (more mind games from SOE; I'm not surprised)
Also, as it's been stated, they knowingly advertised a product they knew they were going to delete immediately after receiving payment, and that's just one example of the way they misled the consumer. Their actions didn't cause me any physical injury, but they took an awful lot of people for a nasty psychological trip.
Harm is NOT measured only in terms of physical injury or material damage. Even though I'm not a "real" lawyer, I studied law long enough to recognize that, and the lawyers that have worked for and with me would certainly confirm that
Also, I really don't want "the old game back" at this point. I have moved on, as you suggest. I'm feeling quite happy as a matter of fact lol. The O.P. started an interesting discussion, and tbh I wouldn't mind seeing SOE held accountable for unethical business practices by the law. That's not revenge my friend, that's feeling good when injustice is addressed through proper channels.
i'll beleive it when i see it...i seen too many of you blow a ton of smoke
If you don't have any taste for legal jargon, just skip to the red letters. I believe this leaves the door open for discussion, and clearly indicates the limitations of the EULA. So people that keep saying the EULA allows SOE to get away with anything they want, should really, really read the red letters:
"10. SOE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state. "
AND
"12. IN NO EVENT SHALL SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY LOST PROFITS OR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR ACCOUNT, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME OR THIS AGREEMENT INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY AND – TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW – DAMAGES FOR PERSONAL INJURY, EVEN IF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES OR LOSS. THE LIABILITY OF SOE, ITS LICENSORS OR ANY OF THEIR PARENT OR AFFILIATED COMPANIES TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES IS LIMITED TO $100. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO EQUITABLE RELIEF INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST SOE, ITS LICENSORS, THEIR PARENTS OR AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS TO ENFORCE THE TERMS HEREOF; HOWEVER, THE FOREGOING SHALL NOT PRECLUDE SOE AND/OR ITS LICENSORS FROM SEEKING ANY INJUNCTIVE RELIEF. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY, SO THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU." (quotations taken directly from the Terms of Use for StarWars Galaxies, as they currently appear on the starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com webpage, red font added by the poster for emphasis)
This is a very important point in this discussion. I hope every time defenders of SOE's dishonest business practices start shouting "EULA EULA!", this gets highlighted.
I'm still not pushing for legal action personally, but one grows tired of people trying to defend SOE's lies with....more lies or misleading statements.
nvm
Sony-BMG lost a class-action lawsuit due to the "anti-piracy" programs in music CD's. The right to take claim in the settlement expired as of June 30th of this year.
The information can be found at the Electronic Frontier Foundation's website.
Different kettle of fish altogether, the SONY-BMG lawsuit. Different issues at hand.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but unlikely unless someone with pockets as deep as SOE and LA comes along and is willing to litigate for a long time to get results. With the exception of the ToOW expansion's bait and switch implications, the other issues would be breaking new ground at least in the US.
If some firm could be enticed into taking them on, well, more power to them. I just don't think that it's likely to happen without someone who sees a huge payday if they win, or is a passionate preCU SWG player who shares the anger of so many in that group and has the legal resources to take on the issue.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Oh grow up.
Sony-BMG lost a class-action lawsuit due to the "anti-piracy" programs in music CD's. The right to take claim in the settlement expired as of June 30th of this year.
The information can be found at the Electronic Frontier Foundation's website.
Different kettle of fish altogether, the SONY-BMG lawsuit. Different issues at hand.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but unlikely unless someone with pockets as deep as SOE and LA comes along and is willing to litigate for a long time to get results. With the exception of the ToOW expansion's bait and switch implications, the other issues would be breaking new ground at least in the US.
If some firm could be enticed into taking them on, well, more power to them. I just don't think that it's likely to happen without someone who sees a huge payday if they win, or is a passionate preCU SWG player who shares the anger of so many in that group and has the legal resources to take on the issue.
It is not just the pre CU player base that is affected. Sony, in effect, has made 3 and is working on 4, currantly, player bases. They had the original player base with the original game. The moved to the CU player base. Then, believe it or not, they created ANOTHER player base after the NGE. They destroyed this player base, had another exedus, and are working on another player base with Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade just 2 months ago.
They continue to implement MASSIVE so called changes to the game. Its on their own boards, by currant players, that after 4 years, the game remains in beta testing. Apperarently, they learned nothing by the mass exedus that occured with CU and NGE. Their reasoning, posted on their boards, for CUNGE was to attrack new players, now with C6, they suddenly do not care about new players and are going after the ones who left with the CUNGE. Its like they have sold Lincolns, repo-ed the lincoln and replaced it with a Mercury, took the Mercury, replaced it with a Pinto, and finally took the Pinto back and replaced it with a go-cart. And believe it or not, there are actually people who were satified or simply settled for the pinto, and it seems, even the go-cart.
Smedley was quoted as haveing 100K subs at the moment and gaining 10K subs since C6. Of cource this number was not "backed up" with any hard and fast fact. I find this to be another SOE misleading statment as they do actually put out some numbers. The entire officer base for GCW, on 26 servers, is a little over 11,000. And the GCW has the best buffs, items, in the game. These numbers also include about 700 "demotions" which are probably another 6% that have left the game. I know that my toon is 1 of them. More mis-leading statments and advertising to gain a few more subs they can move to a bicycle in a few months.
In all my 51 years, I have not seen a Corporate mindset such as this, and I've read case reporters for quite some time now. They have set, in my opinion anyway, a dangerous precident with the entire industry. (As things you can get away with) Contrary to some belief here, there are consumer protection, case, and Statute Law to deal with such issues and legal action is about the only way to enforce these. All of the player bases need to unite to tell SOE/LA, and the entire industry, that they can not "get away" with this type of consumer fraud.
Jessh you SWG cry babies REALLY need to get over this, REALLY need to get over it. Lets sue SOE and then while we're at it why don't a few people sue Blizzard because their Rogue got "nurfed" and so on and so on.
Dear Gods.
One would think that someone has killed these peoples children.
My goodness people IT IS JUST A GAME.
Quit assigning it any more importance than that. If a game can make you this angry, it may be time to seek some sort of professional help.
No kidding. This is ridiculous. Its a bloody game. Get over it.
No kidding. This is ridiculous. Its a bloody game. Get over it.
If it was just a game then SOE would be running it for free.
No kidding. This is ridiculous. Its a bloody game. Get over it.
If it was just a game then SOE would be running it for free.
Now that is a great point. (note the sarcasm)
If bought windows xp..installed it. Worked ok for years. Downloaded an update for it that said it would make it better and it changed it to windows 95 would you say get over it its just an Operating system. I know its not the same thing really...but they are a business and we are consumers. the fact that its a game is irrelevent. Why do people get upset about discussing their rights? I DONT want or think SOE should be sued. However, I think is wise to educate ourselves for the future. If companies know their customers know their rights, they're less likely to to act in unethical ways.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
If bought windows xp..installed it. Worked ok for years. Downloaded an update for it that said it would make it better and it changed it to windows 95 would you say get over it its just an Operating system. I know its not the same thing really...but they are a business and we are consumers. the fact that its a game is irrelevent. Why do people get upset about discussing their rights? I DONT want or think SOE should be sued. However, I think is wise to educate ourselves for the future. If companies know their customers know their rights, they're less likely to to act in unethical ways.
Look, no offence but if in your words you "know it's not the same" why use it as a point at all. The fact of the matter is that they didn't do anything like change Windows XP to 95, they changed the way you engage in combat in a game. They didn't do it to upset people, they didn't do it because they thought it was a funny way to ruin the game they THOUGHT they were helping to fix a broken mess of a game. It was a big mistake, it's been said by SOE already that they see it was a big mistake and that they have learned from it. EQ2 just happens to be one of the only MMORPGs I know of where the players are really listened to.
We don't get upset about people discussing their rights, we get SICK of the same old SOE whines day in and day out. MMORPGs change EVERY day, it's the nature of the beast, this class gets a buff, that class gets a nurf and so on. The only leg I really see people having to stand on over all this is the way people felt mislead over the Trials expansion.
If the game were free there wouldn't be any fuss about it. Since most of us invested a considerable amount of time and money into it, especially under the premise of it going towards one thing, and then ending up with something completely different, we definitely have a right to bitch and complain about it. I mean, what the hell do you think is gonna happen? People feel cheated, and they're going to vent their emotions until they feel some sort of justice has been dealt.
So I'm sorry, I'm not buying the "It's just a game, get over it" BS. You think this is just one big game to SOE/LA? No, it's business, and bad business at that. So to you folks who have a problem with us pissed off angry gamers: STFU and GTFO. This isn't the thread for you.
Classic SWG > CUNGE
And yes, count me in.
Where do I sign up?
Classic SWG > CUNGE
Steve, you have a right to bitch and complain to a point. Bitching and complaining about it years after the fact when you've supposedly moved on is just being childish.
Well then who exactly is the thread for? Is it just one big "oh my feelings are hurt are yours too?" group discussion?