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How would you develop Sci-Fi combat in an MMORPG
retrospectic
Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
A thread on the first page currently (Your favourite MMOG genre (poll)) brought an interesting idea to my mind. Currently most Sci-FI MMOs adopt an EQ-like combat system or an FPS system.
I feel that these systems, although FPS does make more sense, are flawed. Firstly, fantasy style combat (EQ, WoW, DAoC) ends up with very ridiculous situations (diagonal fire at bugs in Anarchy). This style breaks realism for me. The system allows players who are shooting at point-blank range to do similar damage to long-range. Also, the animations at almost always ridiculous.
With FPS the innovation seems very minimal. Basically a persistant FPS world where kills give experience, to me, lacks creativity.
Personally I would love to see a new combat system which melds both in a sort of twitch-style combat. Shooting a gun should require more expertise than just pointing, clicking, and using random abilities (POISON SHOT WTF?!). This system shouldn't break the ease of gameplay which most MMORPGs feature. It should also take away the abilities which users participate in which seem unfair or realism breaking (bunny hopping, silly strafing, random ducking)
It will be HARD (harder than fanatasy which has a semi-believable system) and a process which will, in the end, become innovative.
(Discuss!!!!!)
Edit: Fixed size problems
Comments
Not much to say, I would like combat to be more tactical and realiastic. Current tank, DPS and healer class style has lived it's time and is way to booring and old. Too much the combat game play is rushing. Mostly because You don't need to think, leeroy style works just fine in todays mmorpgs.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
I am always against EQ style combat in any genre.
And I would favour a twitch style. But not your typical FPS combat, I can find many reasons why that system is flawed.
I like the idea of being able to move freely like your typical MMOG or adventure game, but having to hold a button to pull up your gun and fire in a FPS style of movement and aiming, Gears of War did a good job at this. Of course you would get a movement speed penalty for moving while aiming your gun so you can't just run around and shoot everything, and the bigger the gun the more the speed penalty.
I think jumping should stay but make it realistic, meaning that you need to be moving at greater speeds to jump longer and higher and repetitive jumping or bunnyhoping would actually work against you.
Over all there needs to be more tactical movement options, such as dashing, taking cover, diving, hanging from objects, scaling objects and a variety of ways to move from cover, like spinning and rolling over it. Again like Gears of War and Splinter Cell.
It should also play on the advantages of melee combat, which I think should be in every game, meaning no speed penalty, high damage, and the ability to attack while dashing and to lunge at people, meaning unlike most FPS games, melee is both viable and useful.
Definatly do not place artifical means to add strategy, meaning no defense bonus for being behind cover, or accuracy bonus for this position, the player should feel the difference, I.E. if you are behind good cover you don't get hit, if you are crouched or prone, your redicle should remain more steady.
I am not going to get into classes or skills, though I prefer skills, but I do think that the less dice rolling involved the better, like I said the player should feel the difference of getting better at a skill or being better at one stat over another. no higher damage numbers for higher accuracy, the gun should be better steadied, making it easier for me to aim, so that I notice the difference, higher streangth should mean I notice that I can pick up heavey weapons and not move at a slugish pace, quickness should mean my character performs actions faster such as reloading or pulling up a weapon. You get the point.
This would alloy the player to craft a character that better suits the way they like to play, and then use that to help them make tactical choices on the fly. Idealy it would be a good combination of action and tactics, or fast paced tactics.
That is the jist of how I would like to see Sci-fi combat, but I also think that that that system could be adapted a little bit to fit any genre. And yeah I know that isn't technically plausible with the technology we have now, but you didn't say anything about plausiblility.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
This isn't really what you are talking about, but I've always wondered why more companies haven't taken a Jedi like class and mad it their own. Most of the stuff in MMOs today has been copied from somewhere and altered a little. Does Lucas arts aggressively pursue anyone who makes a magic/melee class that uses a laser sword and can deflect lasers away from them via magic?
I Believe if you are just going to have range combat it's easier to make it FPS. Unless you are going to be making a game like Fallout which combines a lot of different types of combat then it's going to be hard to make it interesting strategically. FPS style allows you to use terrain negotiation as your strategy. You move around and hide behind things, or dodge out of the way to avoid incoming fire.
A. Copying edi is so blatant.
B. Magic doesant belong in Sci-Fi.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
There has been a lot of blatant copying over the years. Look how closely EQ copied D&D second edition.
As for magic not belonging in a SCI-FI game I disagree. There is nothing wrong with having magic in a SCI-FI game. Look how successful Star Wars is compared to the other SCI-FI books and movies.
If you feel that way about MMO then I suggest you steer clear of Tabula Rasa.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Well combat is important, don't get me wrong but its hardly the focus. Sure in fantasy it is of primary concern but its a simplistic genre.
A successful Sci-Fi game needs a worth while "universe" to play in before anything else.
Something like this. 30 years of material, thousands of worlds, actual aliens, surface, orbital, starships, economics, politics...you name it. I don't think current MMO devs have the talent or ability to make anything on this scale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_rpg
As far as combat, third person shooter seems to work in many console games. I don't see how FPS can feel more "simplistic" then Third person auto attack more complex?
Its only a matter of character perspective anyway. You could set the interface anyway you like if you were the designer. /shrug. Yeah if you do an exact copy of one or the other its gonna have issues but since that all MMO devs are able to do, copy old stuff, or stuff already out there, its not gonna happen.
The problem with todays MMOs is no one is trying anything new. Its all variations of garbage we already have. Wait until you see T*. Kill 10 space pigs......bring me 8 space bug brains or DNA, whatever.....geez.........and people get paid money to do this crap.
PIGS IN SPPPPAAAAACCCEEE!!!!!!!
Seriously though, exploration should be the center focus, in my opinion of a space sci-fi MMO. Nothing gets more old than a "We know every known planet/solar system/galaxy within our MMO" title that offers nothing but the same old stuff everyone else has offered (Courier/Kill Missions, PVP for no other reason than to PVP,etc). Why not try something new (strange concept I know for devs these days) and let the players figure out routes, planets, etc and explore them to the potential they may or may not hold.
Find a new planet? Great! you as the player/guild/organization must figure out if you can 1.) Land on the planet, 2.) Survive 3.) Find any useful resource to exploit 4.) Set up an run a manufacturing/ shipment process of said material. 5) Guard said planet/material from exploitation from other players/guilds/groups
Its not always a guaranteed success, it takes time and no, you won't *DING!* when you find something....which may turn alot of folks off but hey you asked.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
PIGS IN SPPPPAAAAACCCEEE!!!!!!!
Seriously though, exploration should be the center focus, in my opinion of a space sci-fi MMO. Nothing gets more old than a "We know every known planet/solar system/galaxy within our MMO" title that offers nothing but the same old stuff everyone else has offered (Courier/Kill Missions, PVP for no other reason than to PVP,etc). Why not try something new (strange concept I know for devs these days) and let the players figure out routes, planets, etc and explore them to the potential they may or may not hold.
Find a new planet? Great! you as the player/guild/organization must figure out if you can 1.) Land on the planet, 2.) Survive 3.) Find any useful resource to exploit 4.) Set up an run a manufacturing/ shipment process of said material. 5) Guard said planet/material from exploitation from other players/guilds/groups
Its not always a guaranteed success, it takes time and no, you won't *DING!* when you find something....which may turn alot of folks off but hey you asked.
No way......that sounds to hard
Why can we just get another EQ type system or maybe another go at NGE and kill 10 space rats?
We could put magic in it and call it something else.... and classes, can't have a game without classes, I get to be the nuker.
ooo and "lazer swords" we could add some of those and call them wondi sabers or something. See it could be just like EQ.
/sarcasim off
In all seriousness though, the posibilities of MMOs is limitless, the only thing that holds this entire genre back is the dinosaur dev teams that started it all still trying to make the perfect versions of their old ideas.
(pigs in space was awesome
)
Traveller
While a true twitch-based MMO is a desire in the market, the technology is just not there yet. So a form of smoke and mirrors twitch-based setup is going to be needed.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I think another problem is alot of independant, indie, and/or emu creators that waste time trying to bring back something that they used to play instead of creating something unique and groundbreaking.
Forget about what "used to be" and concentrate on what "can be".
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
There is a technology problem with massive player platforms, that is Server Latency, Client Latency and Communication Latency. To allow for FPS or twitch-based play, requires the Client to take over more of the processing load. Which unfortunately allows for critical files to be modified and exploited. When trying to tie in with verification of servers of real-time ballistics, then the inaccuracy of weapons fire becomes great.While a true twitch-based MMO is a desire in the market, the technology is just not there yet. So a form of smoke and mirrors twitch-based setup is going to be needed.
Without a complex universe, combat is irrelevent. You just get a fantasy grinder with space suits a laser guns instead of wands and chainmail.
Sticky Targetting: Your reticle will follow your target for a short distance before snapping back to the center.. Hits or misses aren't decided based on aim, but a diceroll that takes enviornmental factors (are you moving, do you have cover, how far are you, etc) into account. Bunny hopping adds nothing more than "this character is moving", which you can get just by strafing. There are a FEW things you can duck or jump out of, such as missiles, but for the most part...
Locking Targetting: You can also lock your reticle onto a specific target, and it won't snap back to the center until you lose sight of that creatre (IE if it moves behind you, you will lose your target).
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
I wonder how many people such ideas would appeal to. Personally I have little interest in politics in real life and wouldn't want to play a game involving corporation against corporation. I do love exploration, but I doubt you could set up enough planets to keep everyone happy. It would take to much time to build such a game. You can make fun of all the simple and glitzy stuff, but it's got mass appeal and it's enjoyable for most people until you get to the point where you have played it to much. By the way I do love the idea of laser swords and I really don't care if you think it's childish.
Exactly how it was done in Earth and Beyond. The combat system in that game was great. Lasers for up close high damage attacks, projectiles from a little further out and missiles for kiting. Plus lasers worked great on shields, but sucked at breaking thru the hull of a ship. Projectiles were decent at both and Missiles were really good at punching a hole in the hull once the shields were down. It's a system that's similar to what we have in the Fantasy genre with physical damage as opposed to magic damage, but with it's own uniqueness as well. There were additional trade offs as well since Lasers used up a lot of energy, but required no ammo. Projectiles used a little less energy, but required ammo. Missiles required the least amount of energy, but it's ammo was the most expensive. In this way the combat tied into the actual ship type itself. If you liked lasers, you wanted to get in close quick and get out of reach quick too, so they required fast mobile ships which required a good engine with a large generator for the large energy requirements. These ships normally couldn't withstand a lot of damage, but could make quick work of enemies, while other ships preferred to stay out of range and kite. It was a great system. The game had flaws, but it wasn't with the combat system.
If you feel that way about MMO then I suggest you steer clear of Tabula Rasa.
No im not joking. Keep magic with fantasy games, havePsyonics for sci-fi instead. And to be perfectly frank about it Tabular rising with sticky aim
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand