Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
macros
Suvroc
Member Posts: 2,383
I remember many years ago people in SWG were talking about the possibility of removing recursive macros.
Would this not solve many of the problems in SWG, and other MMO's for that matter? Particularily credit spammers?
It seems it would be an easy solution to me.
Thoughts?
Comments
Credit Farmers don't use macros in SWG they use a speed hack.
Macros are not hurting the game its the lack of Crafters if the all came back bam things would lvl out again.
Ajax
I was refering to the spamming in game, particularily outside Mow Eisley.
But the credit spammers was only an after thought. Would the removal of recursive macros make a big difference to SWG post-NGE? Are macros used as frequently as they were pre-cu, and is there a need to address it? And if so is eleminating recursive macros a possiblility?
I'm thinking specifically about afk entertainers and buffbots,
I don't think killing recrusive macros will solve much, not that I think they'd be able to at this point as I can imagine the uproar will be pretty big. It wouldn't solve anything with the Credit spammers either, since I doubt they'd hesitate to use 3rd party programs to do the job.
Just to clarify I'm not suggesting the removal of macros completely, just the recursive macros.
As I said the credit spammers were an after thought. Would it impact the game in a negative way (in regards to afk ents and buffbots) if looped macros were removed?
Isn't having "at the keyboard" players more beneficial for the community? Also, how badly would it affect players that do use recursive macros as part of their gameplay (specifically in combat), and wouldn't the benefits outweighing the negatives?
I think the better solution would be to make it so that looping macro's don't let you avoid being kicked out of the game for being inactive. That way, those that legitly use the macros to aid them while they're playing the game aren't impacted while those that are using macros to AFK camp a spawn (AFK combat is against the rules now anyway) wouldn't be able to carry on. Although I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that disabled players probably use both kinds of macros to aid them so getting rid of them could make the game unplayable to these people.
I guess it also comes down to the simple fundamental principle of whether you believe macros should be in a game at all. Is it an unfair advantage for someone if they know how to write macros as opposed to those who do not?
Is the gaming community better off without them at all? Does it not create a more "level" playing field?
Plus the best way to deal with credit spammers isn't to hurt the existing legitimate players that use macros legitimately. The way SOE should handle it is have a CSR rotation with the purpose of looking for credit spammers and banning those accounts when found. They could also make it where if a link is advertised in a spam, they could block the line/link from being put through the server ever. This would force the credit spammers to constantly buy new domain names. The registration fees would cut into any profit they make from spamming. It may not stop them but it would make it harder for them to do business.
The only problem with the above tatic is, would SOE work to ban them? I doubt it. Credit spammers and credit farmers are in the game presumeably under a paid account. This is revenue for SOE. Why throw away revenue. If the spammers are there under trial accounts then SOE needs to limit it to the space station. If having a trial that can show the real world is a must then I have a potential solution.
Move the space station to the least populated server. Allow people to see Tattooine and such. If somebody subscribes based on the trial give them a free character transfer to a populated server of there choice. In fact rename the server "the trial server" and force them to go upon subscription. This would get rid of credit spammers and farmers operating under trial accounts as the other servers will not have any trial accounts possible on them.
If anyone thinks this has merit and worth being told to SOE devs then please post it to them. I can't get on the official forums.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
I think the programs like -- <Mod edit> -- (Considered 3rd party Macro Program) is not tolerated in the game, but people still use it I bet.
Plus the best way to deal with credit spammers isn't to hurt the existing legitimate players that use macros legitimately. The way SOE should handle it is have a CSR rotation with the purpose of looking for credit spammers and banning those accounts when found. They could also make it where if a link is advertised in a spam, they could block the line/link from being put through the server ever. This would force the credit spammers to constantly buy new domain names. The registration fees would cut into any profit they make from spamming. It may not stop them but it would make it harder for them to do business.
The only problem with the above tatic is, would SOE work to ban them? I doubt it. Credit spammers and credit farmers are in the game presumeably under a paid account. This is revenue for SOE. Why throw away revenue. If the spammers are there under trial accounts then SOE needs to limit it to the space station. If having a trial that can show the real world is a must then I have a potential solution.
Move the space station to the least populated server. Allow people to see Tattooine and such. If somebody subscribes based on the trial give them a free character transfer to a populated server of there choice. In fact rename the server "the trial server" and force them to go upon subscription. This would get rid of credit spammers and farmers operating under trial accounts as the other servers will not have any trial accounts possible on them.
If anyone thinks this has merit and worth being told to SOE devs then please post it to them. I can't get on the official forums.
Actually, credit spammers are using paid accounts, but SOE is making no cash on it. GreyPawn revealed the other day how the spammers are operating and it's rather dodgy
Trial accounts are already limited. You can't spam more then 200 characters in a 15min period.
There is no real solution to credit farmers. As long as there are players who will buy em. Open pvp and permadeath is all I can think of. Or all crafted items with no credits at all. You can only barter crafted items.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I don't think there is a real advantage. When I first started playing I knew nothing of macros. I went to the SWG forums and third party sites and basically copied the ones posted there created by other players. It is like any other function of the game posted on any forums. Some macros are more complicated than others sure, but to read what one does and copy it makes them very easy to use. Even I as a noob was able to use them within hours of gameplay. I am no programmer.Plus the best way to deal with credit spammers isn't to hurt the existing legitimate players that use macros legitimately. The way SOE should handle it is have a CSR rotation with the purpose of looking for credit spammers and banning those accounts when found. They could also make it where if a link is advertised in a spam, they could block the line/link from being put through the server ever. This would force the credit spammers to constantly buy new domain names. The registration fees would cut into any profit they make from spamming. It may not stop them but it would make it harder for them to do business.
The only problem with the above tatic is, would SOE work to ban them? I doubt it. Credit spammers and credit farmers are in the game presumeably under a paid account. This is revenue for SOE. Why throw away revenue. If the spammers are there under trial accounts then SOE needs to limit it to the space station. If having a trial that can show the real world is a must then I have a potential solution.
Move the space station to the least populated server. Allow people to see Tattooine and such. If somebody subscribes based on the trial give them a free character transfer to a populated server of there choice. In fact rename the server "the trial server" and force them to go upon subscription. This would get rid of credit spammers and farmers operating under trial accounts as the other servers will not have any trial accounts possible on them.
If anyone thinks this has merit and worth being told to SOE devs then please post it to them. I can't get on the official forums.
Actually, credit spammers are using paid accounts, but SOE is making no cash on it. GreyPawn revealed the other day how the spammers are operating and it's rather dodgy
Trial accounts are already limited. You can't spam more then 200 characters in a 15min period.
Obraik,
What do you think about blocking phrases such as a weblink address in a spammers macro. If they block that from being said by the spammer after Identifying the address like they block profanity it would force the spammers to keep buying domain names if they want to advertise in game. It is mostly a harrassment sure, but it would make it more expensive for the spammer.
You are very active in this community, an SOE dev may listen to you. If you think it has merit, please pass it on.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
Plus the best way to deal with credit spammers isn't to hurt the existing legitimate players that use macros legitimately. The way SOE should handle it is have a CSR rotation with the purpose of looking for credit spammers and banning those accounts when found. They could also make it where if a link is advertised in a spam, they could block the line/link from being put through the server ever. This would force the credit spammers to constantly buy new domain names. The registration fees would cut into any profit they make from spamming. It may not stop them but it would make it harder for them to do business.
The only problem with the above tatic is, would SOE work to ban them? I doubt it. Credit spammers and credit farmers are in the game presumeably under a paid account. This is revenue for SOE. Why throw away revenue. If the spammers are there under trial accounts then SOE needs to limit it to the space station. If having a trial that can show the real world is a must then I have a potential solution.
Move the space station to the least populated server. Allow people to see Tattooine and such. If somebody subscribes based on the trial give them a free character transfer to a populated server of there choice. In fact rename the server "the trial server" and force them to go upon subscription. This would get rid of credit spammers and farmers operating under trial accounts as the other servers will not have any trial accounts possible on them.
If anyone thinks this has merit and worth being told to SOE devs then please post it to them. I can't get on the official forums.
Actually, credit spammers are using paid accounts, but SOE is making no cash on it. GreyPawn revealed the other day how the spammers are operating and it's rather dodgy
Trial accounts are already limited. You can't spam more then 200 characters in a 15min period.
Obraik,
What do you think about blocking phrases such as a weblink address in a spammers macro. If they block that from being said by the spammer after Identifying the address like they block profanity it would force the spammers to keep buying domain names if they want to advertise in game. It is mostly a harrassment sure, but it would make it more expensive for the spammer.
You are very active in this community, an SOE dev may listen to you. If you think it has merit, please pass it on.
Good idea and it has been brought up on the official forums some times, for the moment what is both anyoing but seems to be working is /report "name creditspammer" and /addignore "name creditscammer"The anyoing part comes from entering the starport and you'll see some creditscammers are pretty pissed cause of us reporting them as they use to spam with pause and now they spam none-stop, so there's lots of scrolling to be done before actualy reporting them but hey it works and 10/20 minutes in some cases sooner POEF!! they disappear, some get right back new account or so and sometimes it seems to be working and no creditscammers for a 1 hour or more. But for now its most effective, aslong everyone that spots on makes a /report.
SOE could make a little proggy like they did with demolition and reward reports with small items, lets say each 5 different creditscam name report wil grand you a nice reward
It's unfortunate the discussion turned to credit spammers, and I know I really was the first to mention it.
My intention really was to attack the problem of afk ents. I'm back on another 21-day trial (3rd this year!), and as I walk into the Mos Eisley cantina nearly half of the ents have "afk" over their heads. I'm sure many of the others have just turned the auto afk option off, so I'm sure there are many more who really are afk.
This, IMO, really diminishes the profession and does the community no good at all.
Wel i would like to see a 5 minute span for AFK and if longer boot to character select, i mean AFK should mean what it said therefor no one is behind the keyboard so nobody should be able to let the character continue movements.
For me the whole AFK thing can go out of the game, if someone needs a break then simply logout or gotto char.select screen, not like its taking a long time to log back in. And basicly those who afk grind are for me those who don't really want to play a game but just want to be a top lvl, and yes i'm old fashion as regardles if one has done a profession before for me it doesn't creat a excuse to grind AFK for whatever profession. Oh someone has 6 accounts....still no excuse
Macro's in some use i like allot i use to be a entertainer back int he day's but my macro's where those of songs i made or found which i sang ingame in cantina's aswell serten combo's of flourish which gave the song some meaningfull movements when i finaly timed the pauses well together. No adays and even back then most would use these type of macro's to grind and most likely even go afk, but sorry why bother playing a game if one does that, so regardless those macro's i had i was alway's live, afcourse could have walked away to the frigde or something but the way i see some be afk for hours/day's ect is sad and should be dealt with.
But there are things that might prevent SOE from taken these actions cause regardles how you, i or anyone else feels about it those Ent's are most of the time still paying customers, that is why i think most of us feel stronger and react stronger against creditscammers cause they do not do anything in game that might turn out benifitial towards us gamers where unfrotunaly some of the AFK ent's might become nice buffers
As far as afk ents go... people should really level this way in their private house so they don't lag out the cantinas.
I've never played a medic so don't know how possible it is to buff this way, but you can't do this on an ent since everyone wants a different buff.
What they should remove is whiny crybabys from the game and forums that constantly bitch nerf this, nerf that, remove this and that.
I am for keeping the AFK thing, not everyone plays the same way. the anti AFKers ruin my enjoyment of games, they should remove them! =p
My master weaponsmith from before CU is now a jedi ROFL. Crafting aint what it used to be... I'm not saying to bring back decay or change the system, just relaying a little history and reason for this. I won't get into how I feel because it's been said over and over, and always ends in a flame fest. It's all moot anyway because the old system is RIP.
All I have to say about it is people want cheap goods but they don't want them to decay. You can't have it both ways or else the crafters that are left would go broke and disappear completely.
-Viz
yea... removing recursive macros would hurt the dancers at keyboard too since they use these to do flourishes while they are buffing people. It's crazy enough just buffing without needing to worry about flourishes and keeping the show going as well.
I agree that it would stop a lot of the problems, particularly in a game like eve where macro miners have truly destroyed the economy. That being said, having played wow I am well aware of how limiting a game can be without recursive macros. If you were to play a mage, you would in the first moment of raiding realize that non-recursive macros make the raiding experience very dull, very very repetative, and very boring.
I think the best solution is to allow recursive macros, and develop the games differently. For example, mobs should not reappear in the exact same spawn spot as before exactly 300 seconds after it was killed. Lazy designs like that encourage macro botting/farming, and thus hurt economies. So if spawns can be heavily randomized, then macros can still be used to make gameplay far less annoying for many players while at the same time putting a stop to botting.
There is a solution, but it's a game of whack a mole by GMs, and this is why SOE is trying to find some sort of automated way to deal with it, and failing miserably, because they can't create an AI that can outthink the credit spammers.
The only way to deal with the situation that does not involve mass punishment of the playerbase is live GM intervention, which SOE has repeatedly demonstrated they are unwilling to do. In part, because this is a game of whack a mole, I can understand why. Spam, be it in email or in an MMO, is like fighting the Hydra; cut off one head, five more take its place.
Having a GM make credit sale spamming toons TEFd is one sure way to deal with it, but that requires active GM intervention, and they'd probably have to do it 24/7. Every automated "solution" to the issue winds up having insufficent granularity, like the 200 character chat limit, and penalizes potential customers (trial accounts) for the actions of others. But then again the SWG dev team has always preferred mass punishment to actually going after the individuals responsible, because it' s preferred by SOE to do in an automated fashion with as little actual human intervention as possible, because SOE would have to appropriately staff their GM and CS operations to do it, and they don't want to do that, it eats into profit.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I still like the idea of a GM reading the credit spammers spatial spam. Then plug the website in the message into the games profanity filter to permanently block it from being viewed by anyone. Just a bunch of ********* where the website would be. The whole point of the spam is to get people to go to the website. The spammers would have to change their webpage domain name everytime to be able to advertise in game. This would get costly if they had too do it every day or every hour.
Of course this would not stop the actual farming of credits by macro. But they aren't using the in game macro for are they?
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
That wouldn't really work, all they'd need to do is play with the lettering in the Spam a bit and it'll avoid the filter. EQII apparantly received a spam filter much like what you have on RL email accounts, would be nice if something like that would make through to SWG
That wouldn't really work, all they'd need to do is play with the lettering in the Spam a bit and it'll avoid the filter. EQII apparantly received a spam filter much like what you have on RL email accounts, would be nice if something like that would make through to SWG
I think you missed what I mean.
I am not talking about the spam message. I am talking about the website address in the message. You are right they could change the words around on a whole message and start respamming. But if you ban the specific web addresss in the message the spammers would be forced to get new domain names in order to advertise it.
Example:
Spammers message "Come to www.google.com to get cheap creds." A dev sees the spam and bans not the whole message but just the web address. The message would then read "Come to ************* to get cheap creds." No more advertisement. The spammer notices he can't place the web address in his spams. He also can't just play with the letters of the address. Let's say he tried and typed www.gAAgle.com. People that would buy his credits would type it in on their browser would not make it to his website. Type gAAgle instead of google and see.
The spammer would then be forced to pay for the domain names that they would have to keep chaning it to. He buys gAAgle then that gets banned. Hey then buys gUUgle and that gets banned and so on. It would serve as a harrasment of the spammers one. Two, if it costs more to spam with that to advertise in game then the return they are getting from in game advertising maybe they would stop. All the devs would have to do is add the web addresses to the profanity filters.
Thanks for your input Obraik. If you see this is different than what you were talking of and like it, pass it on up. I can't get on the O forums.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
That wouldn't really work, all they'd need to do is play with the lettering in the Spam a bit and it'll avoid the filter. EQII apparantly received a spam filter much like what you have on RL email accounts, would be nice if something like that would make through to SWG
I think you missed what I mean.
I am not talking about the spam message. I am talking about the website address in the message. You are right they could change the words around on a whole message and start respamming. But if you ban the specific web addresss in the message the spammers would be forced to get new domain names in order to advertise it.
Example:
Spammers message "Come to www.google.com to get cheap creds." A dev sees the spam and bans not the whole message but just the web address. The message would then read "Come to ************* to get cheap creds." No more advertisement. The spammer notices he can't place the web address in his spams. He also can't just play with the letters of the address. Let's say he tried and typed www.gAAgle.com. People that would buy his credits would type it in on their browser would not make it to his website. Type gAAgle instead of google and see.
The spammer would then be forced to pay for the domain names that they would have to keep chaning it to. He buys gAAgle then that gets banned. Hey then buys gUUgle and that gets banned and so on. It would serve as a harrasment of the spammers one. Two, if it costs more to spam with that to advertise in game then the return they are getting from in game advertising maybe they would stop. All the devs would have to do is add the web addresses to the profanity filters.
Thanks for your input Obraik. If you see this is different than what you were talking of and like it, pass it on up. I can't get on the O forums.
I personaly and definitly like this idea GrandAm
, like to add that this looks like it could be done in the same sort of route games make profanity filters, so basicly your idea is very simply, so i don't really understand why something like that isn't done before.