Frightened

Ferusa

Hello, I have a question, I know it has been asked before, but I forget how the wording was used, and cannot find it, so I will bring it up again, I know gear is not playing a big role in this game, but what is going to make you better if you are the max level for a month, compared to a person who just got the maximum level that day, are you going to get a skill point every month, is gear going to play a bigger role then they are saying, or is it just going to be about what level you are, not about how long you have been the maximum level?

In advance, I appreciate all replys.

DarkHors3

Gear will play a role in the game. Gear will affect your overall stats and in turn effect your playing ability. That being said, I think rank will play the most important role but once people reach the top rank (40) then all eyes will turn to gear as that will be the onlything left to "make you better" than someone else.

They also stated that gear received in RvR will be more useful for RvR encounters and the same goes for PvE gear.

evil13

 dark, you sure you didn't want to post that comment on wow forums? Because it certanly has little to do with war.

 You will have reknown ranks (rr) which works same as rps in doac if you played that. So you will have more abilities form higher reknown rank, plus, you been playing at max lvl for a month and the other person just got there, you should have a better understandign of your class and be a better player =p

 I highly doubt difference between easily obtainable gear and the most uber ever gear will be big enaugh that when you die you  go "sigh, died again to a hammerer with an uber hammer, need to get one of those myself so I can actually compete with them" Granted, latest news says that war won't have stat caps like daoc, but will have diminishing returns (which daoc had too) This is somewhat a concern to me at least, because not having stat caps allows gear to play a much bigger role. But will have to see how easy it is to reach diminishing returns. Plus it's still in beta so could very easily change.

 Still, a gear is not what the game is about. It's all abotu farmign rps That is the end game mythic is going with, it's just they added some more things to it, like getting gear and sacking cities

Ferusa

Originally posted by DarkHors3


Gear will play a role in the game. Gear will affect your overall stats and in turn effect your playing ability. That being said, I think rank will play the most important role but once people reach the top rank (40) then all eyes will turn to gear as that will be the onlything left to "make you better" than someone else.
They also stated that gear received in RvR will be more useful for RvR encounters and the same goes for PvE gear.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dark

checkthis500

 

Originally posted by Ferusa


Hello, I have a question, I know it has been asked before, but I forget how the wording was used, and cannot find it, so I will bring it up again, I know gear is not playing a big role in this game, but what is going to make you better if you are the max level for a month, compared to a person who just got the maximum level that day, are you going to get a skill point every month, is gear going to play a bigger role then they are saying, or is it just going to be about what level you are, not about how long you have been the maximum level?
In advance, I appreciate all replys.

 

There are 100 Renown Ranks.  Ranks gained from doing RvR (not sure if it's for PvP and PvE or just PvP).

You can use these ranks to get skills and items (I think that's right) .

But yeah, after you hit rank 40, you have these 100 Renown Ranks, which you've probably gained quite a few on your trek to 40.  So if you gained a Renown Rank for every level rank, you'd still have 60 Renown Ranks to get to truly max your character's level out.

EDIT: The Gear thing that Dark said is probably true to an extent, but with the 100 renown ranks it's not the "only" way to be better, so it's very inaccurate.

Ferusa

Alright, that sounds good, I was just scared that there wasn't much to show for your time invested.

Kharnath

I have an uncanny feeling that Mythic will place much emphasis on equipment and character development. Apparently, a lot of MMO gamers enjoy the gear grind and it's very easy for the developers to come up with new "content", ie. equipment with new stats and graphics, to increase the life span of the game in question.



This is Blizzard's approach and they have a staggering number of subscribers. Do we have any reason to believe that Mythic is trying to re-invent the genre?

evil13

 Gear oriented games can't be focused on pvp though (well, maybe if it has player looting it could) as is clearly seen in wow's pvp. Mythic came up with their rps system, which works much better than gear grind wow uses. 

 If all wow had was pvp, and people didn't care about which class has the highest dps on a raid boss or which class can heal the best durign a raid boss and all [layer focused on was pvp (ie, what daoc has)  wow would need to redo almost everything, from gear (stat caps on diminishing returns) to class skills etc. How do you balance in wow a mage with 600 +damage compared to one with 1200 +damage? Well, wow isn't focused on pvp so they don't, they tell the one with 600 to raid more.

 You can't have pvp balance in a game where difference between obtainable gear and uber gear is 30%+ it just doesn't work. Obviously there is still gear progression, daoc had always had stat caps and yet mythic released 5 expansions all of which brought in some better gear than compared to what was available. But the gear is easy to obtain and so players focus on pvp.

You can still go pve and collect all the gear you want, but that's generally because you fidn it fun and not because you want to have a sword with 30% higher dps than everyone else.

Leonatos65

Originally posted by evil13


 Gear oriented games can't be focused on pvp though (well, maybe if it has player looting it could) as is clearly seen in wow's pvp. Mythic came up with their rps system, which works much better than gear grind wow uses. 
 If all wow had was pvp, and people didn't care about which class has the highest dps on a raid boss or which class can heal the best durign a raid boss and all [layer focused on was pvp (ie, what daoc has)  wow would need to redo almost everything, from gear (stat caps on diminishing returns) to class skills etc. How do you balance in wow a mage with 600 +damage compared to one with 1200 +damage? Well, wow isn't focused on pvp so they don't, they tell the one with 600 to raid more.
 You can't have pvp balance in a game where difference between obtainable gear and uber gear is 30%+ it just doesn't work. Obviously there is still gear progression, daoc had always had stat caps and yet mythic released 5 expansions all of which brought in some better gear than compared to what was available. But the gear is easy to obtain and so players focus on pvp.
You can still go pve and collect all the gear you want, but that's generally because you fidn it fun and not because you want to have a sword with 30% higher dps than everyone else.

Well said.

 

On a further note, I could swear that I heard Paul B. state that yes the weapons and armor will have stats and bonuses but not to an inbalance effect (Trying to find the Pod-Cast Link).

Obviously a higher level player will have better gear and stats than a lower level but it won't be stat crazy or a steep incline from good to great to OMG!

Personally I'd like to see very little stats and more straight up tactics and damage without modifiers. (For example, swords with +3 stamina and not +40)

Less is more.

Distaste

WoW was open ended in terms of end game. They didn't have ANY goals for the end. BG's were just a place to grind rep/honor, Instances were places to get gear(for what purpose? To get more gear!) and so on and so forth. There was no goal in WoW. Warhammer on the other hand has a very specific goal, conquer the enemies capital! Your best loot comes from achieving that goal.

As for loot being the end all be all? No! I believe they stated something like 50% gear and 50% skill. That is cool and I am fine with that. The whole loot end game was brought to light mainly by WoW who royally messed that game up. If anyone played when MC was the end game then you knew that the gear gap from non raider 60 to raider 60 was huge. Look at the best items pre raiding then look at raiding items. Look at azuresong mageblade vs the best blue staff. It wasn't even close. Then you add in BWL and things got much worse. The bigger problem was trying to get into a BWL guild you pretty much needed to have your MC stuff. Thus the Tier 1---->Tier 2---->Tier 2.5---->Tier 3 mindset was created. Someone who never raided that wanted to get Tier 3 was SOL unless they wanted to wait months and do a mindnumbing amount of raids.

In WAR this is not the case. The best loot comes from raiding the capital. ANYONE can raid the capital and thus the loot isn't near impossible to get. You don't need to have participated in X public quest or have participated in all scenarios to get the loot. You just need to show up and fight for your side. The more work you do towards winning the more you are rewarded, that is all there is to know.

Super loot isn't so super when everyone can get it.

As for stat caps? Who needs a stat cap when you have deminishing returns. If I said today that I will give you a dollar for your quarter you would do it. Tommorow I will give you .50 for your quarter, and then 35 the next and 30, 28, 26, 25. How long are you going to put in your time and effort to get that little bit of profit? You can make deminishing returns extremely steep so when you hit a certain stat value your only getting 1% of what the stat before it is worth. It is its own cap. If you want to waste all your stats in STR and I put mine in STR till DR then into health. You will do 5 more dmg but I will have tons more health, gotta love DR.

As for Kharnath, how do you suppose that they make a gear grind? You can't really go passed taking over the main city. Is there a mega city built by Order/destruction in Warhammer lore that can be the next big step? Maybe after we take cities we will go after gods? Seriously there isn't a whole lot of room to add a gear grind. If they do add more armor then it will be accessable by everyone so it isn't much of a grind.

Sornin

It sounds as though gear will come quite easily and naturally so long as you just participate.

Killed enemies, both players and NPCs, will drop loot. The best gear will not come from this, but I am sure some will be decent.

Public quests will give out gear, and some of the best gear will come from here. Also, at the end of the PQ, EVERYONE there automatically rolls on the boss drop (most PQs end with a boss of sorts), with your roll being modified by your participation. Do the most, get the biggest chance. But, even the smallest player might get the greatest gear. Some may hate this, I find it refreshing. Uberd00d_067 will not be the only guy getting stuff anymore.

When you sack a city, you will get very good gear through looting and pillaging and such, it would seem.

Also, let us not forget normal quests. It sounds as though each quest will have very specific rewards tailored to your character. You know how in WoW sometimes you will get like, two options - a staff or some leather pants. Too bad you are a paladin, and none of that helps. In WAR, this will never happen. If gear is given as a reward, you get options that help you.

Kharnath

Originally posted by Distaste


As for Kharnath, how do you suppose that they make a gear grind? You can't really go passed taking over the main city. Is there a mega city built by Order/destruction in Warhammer lore that can be the next big step? Maybe after we take cities we will go after gods? Seriously there isn't a whole lot of room to add a gear grind. If they do add more armor then it will be accessable by everyone so it isn't much of a grind.

I'm not a game designer. I don't know what can be done with the technology at hand, nor do I know all or even most of the mechanics in MMOs that can support a gear grind. But Paul Barnett is a game designer, and a very capable one from what I've heard. I think we're deluding ourselves if we rule the gear grind out already, because I'm quite certain Paul Barnett could implement gear grinding into this game if he saw fit.



Of course, I don't know if that's part of his grand vision. It's definitely not his selling point. But that doesn't mean it's nonexistent.



I remember back in the ol' days when Blizzard talked about huge faction wars and epic encounters. I bought into the hype. I really thought it was the MMO that would make all other MMOs superfluous. But after a while I realized that there were no epic encounters or faction wars, only a gear grind and instanced mini-games.



That's why I reserve my right to be sceptical. Once burned, twice shy.

SpiritofGame

Don't know for sure how Warhammer will work, but it seems to me in Mythic's first foray into RvR, Dark Age of Camelot, while gear and items were important -- you would PREFER to PvP in the best gear you could get -- the really important part was Realm Ranks, which Warhammer will also have.

If I recall old DAoC RvR chit-chat correctly, it seemed that I-got-owned complaints were not mainly about who-had-what-piece-of-uber-gear, but, instead, who-got-attacked-by-what-uber-realm-rank-player.

If Warhammer follows this paradigm, I think you will see max level players outfitted with relatively equal amounts of uber-gear, leaving the determining factor to be who has uber (realm rank) skills.

If this plays out the same, then probably two things will happen:

~ You will play/grind/farm (PvE and PvP) for levels and gear, and you will probably obtain all or most of the beneficial RvR items/gear.

~ You will RvR for Realm Ranks/Skills to become a scourge on your enemies.  

Also -- it seemed to me that those who RvR the most will get the greatest amount of gear and skills (where RvR-Ranks unlock special RvR-Skills or RvR activities lead to special gear/items).

It does not seem unusual to me that those who RvR the most, will eventually attain the highest RvR Ranks and become the best RvR players (all other things like skill, strategy, reaction time, etc., being equal).