Stealth Class - Guaranteed?

gibbonofdoom

Now I know there have been load of topics and speculation on Stealth classes in WAR . . . but here's something interesting.

So Safehouse has put up some info from a Q&A Session at PAX, entitled "What's in it for rogues?"



And this, is very interesting:

Correll said he thinks there will be "something for everyone" in Warhammer. But when asked if there will be an assassin class in game, Barnard said, "I know, but I don't know if I should say." Correll said the questions about class will be answered soon enough, when the game gets closer to launch in early 2008.

That's got to mean there is going to be a stealthy type class in one of the Elven races.  Before when they have been asked straight out if there was going to be something in, if it wasn't, they would just say "No".  He said "I know but I don't know if I should say." -- He might as well have just said yes.



So the question is . . . what's it going to be?  A Dark Elf Assassin? A High Elf Shadow Warrior? Or something new?

Kyleran

Something along the lines of a D&D Rogue, good attacks from behind but nothing that can actually attack unseen.  Stop looking for easy mode.... won't be in this game....

Jowen

I do not think that "stealth" (as in total invisibility in all enviroments) will be found in WAR. But position related attacks are in.

CyberWiz

There wont be any stealth classes in game. Not sure where or who said it, but I am 100% sure it has been said by EA Mythic that there will be no stealth classes. Maybe assasin classes, but you will never be able to become invisible.

greetz

xray00

Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.  Stalkers that do awesome damage when behind the opponent on the other hand are very much appropriate.  Even wizards are not getting an invis spell.

DuraheLL

Originally posted by xray00


Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.

It IS so it's not a matter of opinions

jor8888

I think witch elf is assassin since she can dual wield, back stab, and poison.

brostyn

Originally posted by xray00


Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.  Stalkers that do awesome damage when behind the opponent on the other hand are very much appropriate.  Even wizards are not getting an invis spell.

Umm, have you ever played Warhammer? Because there are stealth classes. Not a lot, and they are always very weak, but there are some.

atziluth

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by xray00


Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.  Stalkers that do awesome damage when behind the opponent on the other hand are very much appropriate.  Even wizards are not getting an invis spell.

Umm, have you ever played Warhammer? Because there are stealth classes. Not a lot, and they are always very weak, but there are some.

Not in a traditional stealth sense. Yes there are models that can hide in formed units and pop out to attack specific models. That being the case only way stealth would stay true to the IP was if your character could only become invisible while 10+ non-stealth characters are within 10 meters of you. This is not what people want... they want to free-range invisible and gank engaged or wounded players.

 

The Devs have repeatedly said mechanical stealth will not be in the game. they have stated PvP areas have enough hiding places that it is easy in the heat of combat to "sneak" up on the enemy. Why this issue keeps being brought up I have no idea... I wish they would release the last 4 races so we can put this to bed once and for all.

JohnnyMotrin

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Originally posted by jor8888
I think witch elf is assassin since she can dual wield, back stab, and poison.

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Yeah, what jor said. ^^

There's only 4 types of profs: tank, dps melee, ranged, healer. The Witch Elf is the dps prof for the Dark Elfs. I don't think they'll make a stealth class out of the ranged or healer profs, so the Witch Elf is as close as we'll get for now. We'll have to wait and see what the dps prof will be for the High Elfs.

xray00

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by xray00


Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.  Stalkers that do awesome damage when behind the opponent on the other hand are very much appropriate.  Even wizards are not getting an invis spell.

Umm, have you ever played Warhammer? Because there are stealth classes. Not a lot, and they are always very weak, but there are some.

yes, quite a bit actually.  The stealth used in the TT is much different from what you see in MMOs.  Stealth in the TT generally requires you to hide in terrain or out of sight. It does not involve units running around invisible ganking the enemy with glee.  Stealth in the TT tends to be a more strategic affair rather than a tactical one.

gibbonofdoom

 

Originally posted by atziluth 
I wish they would release the last 4 races so we can put this to bed once and for all.

Haha I agree with that. 

 

Btw everyone I know they origionally said that there wasn't going to be any stealth,  I just thought that the comment from the Q&A session was interesting.  I was curious to the why they said "I know but I dont know if I can say. . .".  Why not say "no" if there isn't something to it?

BOYVIRGO666

i love infiltrators in TT. i may only play 40k but i know how they work and its just 10 kinds of fun

Celestian

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Originally posted by Kyleran
Something along the lines of a D&D Rogue, good attacks from behind but nothing that can actually attack unseen. Stop looking for easy mode.... won't be in this game....

---

Said like someone that can't defend against a lightly armored class.

Frankly I don't see why people whine about stealth so much. I've never played one but I've played a multitude of games that have them and they are not the god mode the bad players try and make people think they are.

I'm pretty sure Mark Jacobs is against any stealth class so I doubt you'll see one.

Opalek

In one of the videos one of the devs said that the Witch Elf is "... the class thats closest to a stealth class in WAR..."

I don´t have the exact quote in mind but it was something like that. So OP you can stop guessing and start to look at THE HAIR !

I guess the chicks will be interesting to play, tactic wise and I already plan on a LOT of hair

 

dominia

Adding stealth to WAR breaks the pvp model Mythic has been so careful in setting up (for a review of it check it out on my warhammer blog  here --> theaphelion.wordpress.com/ )

By introducing stealth all of a sudden tanks will compromise their role entirely as stealth classes will easily get to the healers. With stealth tanks 2 means of "tanking" in pvp will be rendered near useless,

1) collision detection -- normally players would have to go through a tank to get to the healer, but if the tank can't see the stealthed witch they don't even have a chance at getting in between the incoming melee dps and his/her healer.

and

2) taunting -- each tanking class has a way of making opposing player want to attack them either through debuffs or what ever. If a rogue can sneak past th tank and get a jump on his team mate, by the time the tank turns, realizes his  teammate is being jumped by a witch and casts his taunt -- either he's teammate is dead or he's dead (from the focus fire and not getting healed)

As you can see tanks ONLY work in this game because of LIMITED CC and NO STEALTH. Otherwise the pvp system breaks down we end up with a system as diluted as WoW's.

 

gibbonofdoom

Everyone seems to be making the assumption that Stealth = WoW Rogue.  This doesn't necessarily have to be true.

What if it's not a melee dps class that is given a stealth ability? -- What if it's ranged? And is used defensively rather than offensively?

So far Mythic has given us loads of great new things that will do the MMO genre a world of good.  So far stealth in most traditional MMO's has been used appalingly, and I really, really dislike it.  It's like a caveman having a wheel made from stone.  Why not re-invent the wheel? - You never know, maybe someone along the way had a brilliant idea;  maybe Mythic will give us Michelin Tyres.

Jetrpg

Nod Mythic has said there there is NO, STEATH . NONE

atziluth

Originally posted by gibbonofdoom


Everyone seems to be making the assumption that Stealth = WoW Rogue.  This doesn't necessarily have to be true.
What if it's not a melee dps class that is given a stealth ability? -- What if it's ranged? And is used defensively rather than offensively?
So far Mythic has given us loads of great new things that will do the MMO genre a world of good.  So far stealth in most traditional MMO's has been used appalingly, and I really, really dislike it.  It's like a caveman having a wheel made from stone.  Why not re-invent the wheel? - You never know, maybe someone along the way had a brilliant idea;  maybe Mythic will give us Michelin Tyres.

I don't think you quite get it. Mythic has said no stealth abilities. No turning invisible. No fading or anything else that inhibits seeing the character.

 

You can argue the finer points of stealth but in this game it will not be present. There are no "what ifs".

Sornin

Originally posted by gibbonofdoom


Now I know there have been load of topics and speculation on Stealth classes in WAR . . . but here's something interesting.
So Safehouse has put up some info from a Q&A Session at PAX, entitled "What's in it for rogues?"



And this, is very interesting:
Correll said he thinks there will be "something for everyone" in Warhammer. But when asked if there will be an assassin class in game, Barnard said, "I know, but I don't know if I should say." Correll said the questions about class will be answered soon enough, when the game gets closer to launch in early 2008.
That's got to mean there is going to be a stealthy type class in one of the Elven races.  Before when they have been asked straight out if there was going to be something in, if it wasn't, they would just say "No".  He said "I know but I don't know if I should say." -- He might as well have just said yes.



So the question is . . . what's it going to be?  A Dark Elf Assassin? A High Elf Shadow Warrior? Or something new?

First of all, assassin class != stealth class!

Nowhere is it written in stone that an assassin must be able to stealth, where stealth is taken to mean "can disappear for no apparent reason in the wide open while 10 people watch." That is how most MMOGs handle it, at least, and it makes no sense, not even in a magical fantasy game. An assassin simply must be quick and deadly, traits that enable them to engage their prey, kill it, and escape to safety.

The game has an assassin class already - the Witch Elf. She is quick and deadly - an assassin. There is not going to be a class that can stealth like an EQ or WoW rogue.

I, for one, am glad, because 9 times out of 10 (unofficial statistics) it is a stealther who ganks you and goes "lololol!!11 PWNED!" while you were engaged with something else. It is a valid and smart tactic, I suppose, but the griefing ethos it brings with it disgusts me. I am not claiming all stealthers are griefers, nor that all griefers are stealthers, but it sure seems to bring them out. Now griefers need to stay visible like everyone else and can no longer pick off weakened players with impunity.

Also, as for an indefinite answer, consider whom he was talking to and marketing reasons. You are not going to flat-out tell rogue devotees that there will be none of their beloved stealth, and in pre-release you want to be as indefinite as possible on features you do not plan to have to avoid angering people. Angry people mean fewer people trying and subscribing to your game.

I just hope EA Mythic sticks to their guns on the stealth issue. For as many people you turn away, many more will welcome not having it. Plenty of other games exist in which one can wander around invisible in broad daylight to entertain that crowd.

brostyn

Originally posted by xray00

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by xray00


Stealth type classes that actually go invisible are very un-Warhammer like IMO.  Stalkers that do awesome damage when behind the opponent on the other hand are very much appropriate.  Even wizards are not getting an invis spell.

Umm, have you ever played Warhammer? Because there are stealth classes. Not a lot, and they are always very weak, but there are some.

yes, quite a bit actually.  The stealth used in the TT is much different from what you see in MMOs.  Stealth in the TT generally requires you to hide in terrain or out of sight. It does not involve units running around invisible ganking the enemy with glee.  Stealth in the TT tends to be a more strategic affair rather than a tactical one.

Great, so we agree stealth is very warhammer like.

celty

Are you talking refering to stealth as the Scouts special rule on page 96 of the new rule book?

If that is the case it wouldn't be so bad, as the rule says a scout unit is placed last whjile deploying forces and when they are placed they must stay a certain number of inches away and cannot be in the line of sight of any enemy units.  That might happen, but it's not even close to ctealth in any MMO I have ever seen and I'm not sure there is even a reason to do this.

The only other stealth I can really think of is the Line of sight rules for woods on page 9.  If a model is in the woods enough they can not see out nor can anyone see in.  So I guess it's kind of like stealth where people can be very close to you but they cannot see you, but then again you cannot see them either.

Maybe stealth would be like the Howler Wind, Guardian Light under the Loers of Magic section.  But that is not really stealth is just stops low str. weapons from hitting you from range.  So they can see you but some people just cannot hit you so it's kinda like stealth.

If you do the set  up of your peices on a seperate piece of paper, that might be like stealth, well until the game starts and then you can see everyone again.   So it's not really stealth it just took you a little longer becuase you placed units in a different way to make it a little harder to counter the placement of your friends with the placement of your units.  I'm not to sure I would call this stealth.

It's hard to make stealth for the table top game becuase everything is on the table.  What other stealth are the earlier posters talking about?

Aseenus

they said in one of the career vids that dark elves are going to be able to stealth... so yea

rungard

theres nothing wrong with having stealth in the game. Its having stealth and being able to move that is gamebreaking.

you should only ever be able to stealth in a stationary position and there should be a requirement to be adjacent to in game geometry like trees and walls.

even that being said, if someone comes within 5 feet of you, they should easily be able to see you.

past mmos just made it so easy to stealth that theyve basically ruined it. Real players would enjoy the challenge of the above.

stealth should never mean invisibility.

 

 

 

jondifool

1)i  am pretty sure that they more than once have stated that there will be no stealth !! but if any race could have stealth it must be the dark elves!

2) the dark elf light armor mellee dps clas is revealed  = witch elf

3) and when revealed they said that the witchelf would be with all the best thing a rouge class have and none off the bad! (in my book thats no stealth, what else could be the bad thing they are talking about ?)

4) who is left that could have stealth ? the healer , the ranged dps ? That wouldn't make sense

so conclussion no stealth !

impulsebooks

I think Paul said "Positional attacks yes, Invisible attacks NO!"

My guess is that there will be backstabbing galore, but there will be nothing that cannot be countered by other classes.