I think there's truth in both sides - laziness and resource consumption. However, I think it leans more toward laziness to find a way to manage those variations.
Case in point...
Lineage 2. PvP game with a focus on Sieges. Granted, at the start of the game there isn't much variety... However... If someone is going to claim that Lineage 2 has no variety overall, I'm going to say you haven't really paid attention to how much really is packed into that game.
Let's look at armor alone...
Only counting B, A and S grade, there are 27 individual armor sets. That represents a robe, light and heavy variation on each style.
Now, add to that equation that there is a unique model set for every set of armor for every race and, further, each sex. That includes Male Dwarf, Female Dwarf, Male Orc, Female Orc, Male Human, Female Human, Male Elf, Female Elf, Male Dark Elf, Female Dark Elf... and now with CT1, Male Kamael and Female Kamael... Additionally, there's two more variations per sex for each set, those are for Human and Orc Mystics. Which brings it up to 16 variations per armor set.
16 x 27 = 432 unique armor sets that can potentially be present in one area, at one time. And that's not including those who might be mixing and matching different gear sets. I don't think I've ever seen that many people on a single siege field.
Go to the link below and go through them yourself; clicking on the link for the body piece will show you each set with the option to view it on male or female of each race.
Again, that's not including Non Grade, D Grade or C Grade which would bring the possible combo even higher. It would increase the possible combo's by another 288.
Now add on to that all the different weapons there can be... Hell, duals alone account for a large possible variety. Then add on to that the effects required for each different stage of over-enchantment that might be on any given weapon.
Then add all the possible combos of face styles, hair styles, hair color.
Then add possible accessories.. ears, hats, masks, eye-patches, etc. etc.
Oh yeah, we can't forget summons... Phantom Summoner summons, Elemental Summoner summons, Warlock Summons, Necromancer Summons, big booms, striders, pets, etc. etc. Even more to throw into the mix.
I'd say it's a pretty big stretch to say that's not alot of resources to maintain, on a siege field or otherwise. Sure, many people have to put the game into lower detail mode during sieges or even raids, but it's still loading in and managing all those different variations at once.
...
In FFXI, where SE has stated that they have to limit variety due to memory restrictions of the PS2, they have still managed to implement I don't know how many different armor and weapon sets over time, many of those also different based on character race and sex and height. Again... despite the limitations, SE have found a way to manage it.
So while, yes, resources are limited and tricky to work with, those two examples alone show that it is very do-able, if the developer is so compelled. So I think thelaziness argument works here, too.
(Edit: My math was off.. had to fix it .
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Im kinda curious how a connection issue turned into a debate on personal preference. If you dont like the idea of playing a female character in a game, then you have limited yourself from lots of titles not only Archlord. I have played this game alot its one of the better F2P mmo's out there, you wont find another F2P with armor that is like it is in Archlord. If people are still having connection issues make sure your firewall is letting the game through, one of the most common connection errors, dont ever overlook the firewall.
OD
"It is through the errors of others that I learn not to be them"
Im kinda curious how a connection issue turned into a debate on personal preference. If you dont like the idea of playing a female character in a game, then you have limited yourself from lots of titles not only Archlord. I have played this game alot its one of the better F2P mmo's out there, you wont find another F2P with armor that is like it is in Archlord. If people are still having connection issues make sure your firewall is letting the game through, one of the most common connection errors, dont ever overlook the firewall.
OD
The OP's first post was about not being able to log in. Their second post - about 3 or 4 posts into the thread, was a follow-up stating that they connected but took issue with the lack of customization.. the male/female thing, as well as being disconnected. The customization is what this thread has mostly been about, since there's really not much to debate about a connection issue - you can either get the game to connect, or you can't. It's a rather limited topic. Customization, on the other hand, is quite a loaded one.
To be honest, your rebuttal to the customization issue is a bit off. The complaint wasn't about the armor choices. It was about not being able to choose male or female for a given class. And the complaint isn't about any other MMO... it's about Archlord. Lack of customization in other MMOs is a topic for those games' forums.
And, yes, I do agree that they took shortcuts in deciding on classes being sex-specific. It's a common and, really, not at all unreasonable gripe. People like individuality and choice in a MMO. In a game that you could spend hundreds of hours playing, with potentially thousands of others playing along side you, it is a bit "annoying" to see 5 other characters run by that are exact clones of you. Or, to otherwise, not have many options of how you want your avatar to look overall; sex being one of those things.
Personally, I have no problem with playing a female avatar. I've played both BloodRayne games - female avatar. Tomb Raider? Female. Longest Journey/Dreamfall? Female characters. Primal? Female character. And so forth. I switch it up in MMOs purely for variety. Frankly, I think female models tend to look cooler (IMO) and are generally better animated than male characters (a good indication of who is actually creating these games and/or who they're created for. Female Dark Elves in L2? Hello... ). Even going back as far as the first Neverwinter Nights - female models were animated beautifully. Male models ran like they had a board up their rear, or had been on horseback a year or two too long. I couldn't stand looking at that, so I played a female toon instead. Even though there's an ever increasing female gamer population, games are still very "guy-centric" when it comes to character design. I'm personally not for or against it. But It is what it is.
However, to get back to my point, while it certainly shouldn't necessarily prevent people from playing a game (unless personalization is *that* important to them - and it well might be; to each their own), I can understand the gripe in not having more options or, at least, the ability to choose male or female where applicable. In some MMOs, there are only one choice of sex for a given race. Mithra and Galka in FFXI, for example. Female and Male only, respectively. But that's not a class limitation. Only sex.
Anyway, again, to me it's not a huge deal. But, I can see how it may be to others and, yes, in a genre like MMOs, it's not unexpected to have players being more particular about their character's appearance and put off by seemingly arbitrary limitations on appearance.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Just thought An update is in order. Finally got online and went to character creation and from the onset ran into a BIG issue.
I can't seem to change the gender of my character. They could not have left out one of the most basic of player choices! could they? I have no problem over what sex others play but I am not into cross dressing. So there goes the Human spell caster and both of the Elvin classes for that matter. Also the issue with the server connection continues. After going through the minimal choices available to character creation i was given the message "SERVER CONNECTION DISCONTINUED". The only bright side to this is I can recreate my character in less then 2 minutes. So much for personal touches. Moving on.
Not having gender choices in a game is.... well it's just laziness on the part of the developers.
There really is no excuse for it.
and blah blah you can talk about lore, but as the poster said some of us don't play video games so we can stare at our toon and drool on our keyboards. Not that the female avatars in AL are that much to look at anyway.
I honestly think this game is geared towards preteens, pretty graphics, simple game play, anime characters and free to play, kind of silly imo when the average age of people playing mmo's is early 30's.
... Just select a game where you can select a gender them.
How nice of an elite member to try and put what I had to say on my first post, into the dirt. I realize the gripe is about the cusomization of your characters but, my point was simply saying you won't find armor in another F2P mmo like you find in Archlord. On the gender specific class system, well it doesnt bother me either. To tell you the truth I would rather stare at a pixelated females ass then a males. Right?!?
Other then that I feel maybe the customization of your characters or lack there of, might have its own post, insted of eating from a real issue like not being able to connect to the game. Being as someone has over 720 posts they should be able to help this problem. . . LOL well maybe, just cause you can type doesn't mean you know anything on the tech aspect. ^^
OD
"It is through the errors of others that I learn not to be them"
How nice of an elite member to try and put what I had to say on my first post, into the dirt. I realize the gripe is about the cusomization of your characters but, my point was simply saying you won't find armor in another F2P mmo like you find in Archlord. On the gender specific class system, well it doesnt bother me either. To tell you the truth I would rather stare at a pixelated females ass then a males. Right?!? Other then that I feel maybe the customization of your characters or lack there of, might have its own post, insted of eating from a real issue like not being able to connect to the game. Being as someone has over 720 posts they should be able to help this problem. . . LOL well maybe, just cause you can type doesn't mean you know anything on the tech aspect. ^^
OD
Wow.
Thin-skinned much?
Umm.. I didn't know how many you even had 'til you mentioned it. I read your post, and responded. If you had 10,000 posts it wouldn't have made a difference. I'd have posted the same reply.
First of all, I did not "try to put what you say into the ground". I pointed out how your point was not what the topic was about - armor and character sex are two different things. I then went on to elaborate. Basically, a normal post.
Number of posts has nothing to do with anything. Someone could come in here with 1 post, like yourself, and post my rebuttal and it wouldn't make any difference. Post count doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid. Perhaps to some, but that's their problem. Also, my "rank" is an arbitrary tag decided in the forum configuration - all it means is "I've posted enough to trigger the "elite" label". Whatever. You apparently give it more consideration than I do.
That said, if you're going to get that bent out of shape and start with the pot-shots the moment someone posts a disagreement to something you've said, I'd advise finding a friendlier forum to post to. What I posted would actually be considered tame compared to some of the people here. This is not a place to be if you can't take a little bit of disagreement.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Asian mmo's don't even come close to the quality found in Western mmo's - not even close.
Game play in general - Western What a generic statement...how so?
UI Customization - Western same as above
PVP and RVR - Western You are truely on crack, what western game has PvP or RvR whats worth a f&^%? PvP / RvR in western games is for the mostpart meaningless. There is maybe one, EVE, thats worthwile playing.
Crafting - Western yes, no asian game has crafting
Housing - Western Yes, no asian game has housing
Auction Houses - Western yes, no asian game has an AH
Freedom of Movement - Western Huh? Oh must be refering to the point and click, the same feature many western games have or you can set them to
Questing - Western Crack
Raiding - Western And this is a good thing?
Mob AI - Western LMAO, oh this is good...MMO AIs are idiots comparred to other genres
City Building - Western Yes, all western games have this fantasic feature. In fact I can't wait to log into Vanguard, DAoC, EQII or EQ and get to work on my city.
Less Grind - Western You are on Crack, do you play any western games at all???? Please tell us WoW is less grind...go for it.
Pretty Graphics / flashy combat animations - Asian
Item Malls - Asian
Weapon and Armour Slotting - Asian Yes, no western game has this.
Character choice in start up gender - Western Yes, no Asian game allows this
I thought I would add something
Launching buggy games that don't work for at least the first 6 months, some not for years and still some never at all BUT you get to pay a fee for the after launch beta experience - Western.
Where do you get this stuff from?
Almost everything you listed has comperable Asian features. Just admit it, you just don't like Asian games and nothing will convince you otherwise.
There are asian games that have a crafting system implemented; it may seems basic to some ppls' liking, but then again, Archlord's is nothing special and limited too. So IMO it doesn't matter if a game is asian or western, a good game is a good game.
Comments
I think there's truth in both sides - laziness and resource consumption. However, I think it leans more toward laziness to find a way to manage those variations.
Case in point...
Lineage 2. PvP game with a focus on Sieges. Granted, at the start of the game there isn't much variety... However... If someone is going to claim that Lineage 2 has no variety overall, I'm going to say you haven't really paid attention to how much really is packed into that game.
Let's look at armor alone...
Only counting B, A and S grade, there are 27 individual armor sets. That represents a robe, light and heavy variation on each style.
Now, add to that equation that there is a unique model set for every set of armor for every race and, further, each sex. That includes Male Dwarf, Female Dwarf, Male Orc, Female Orc, Male Human, Female Human, Male Elf, Female Elf, Male Dark Elf, Female Dark Elf... and now with CT1, Male Kamael and Female Kamael... Additionally, there's two more variations per sex for each set, those are for Human and Orc Mystics. Which brings it up to 16 variations per armor set.
16 x 27 = 432 unique armor sets that can potentially be present in one area, at one time. And that's not including those who might be mixing and matching different gear sets. I don't think I've ever seen that many people on a single siege field.
Go to the link below and go through them yourself; clicking on the link for the body piece will show you each set with the option to view it on male or female of each race.
http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/item_sets.html
Again, that's not including Non Grade, D Grade or C Grade which would bring the possible combo even higher. It would increase the possible combo's by another 288.
Now add on to that all the different weapons there can be... Hell, duals alone account for a large possible variety. Then add on to that the effects required for each different stage of over-enchantment that might be on any given weapon.
Then add all the possible combos of face styles, hair styles, hair color.
Then add possible accessories.. ears, hats, masks, eye-patches, etc. etc.
Oh yeah, we can't forget summons... Phantom Summoner summons, Elemental Summoner summons, Warlock Summons, Necromancer Summons, big booms, striders, pets, etc. etc. Even more to throw into the mix.
I'd say it's a pretty big stretch to say that's not alot of resources to maintain, on a siege field or otherwise. Sure, many people have to put the game into lower detail mode during sieges or even raids, but it's still loading in and managing all those different variations at once.
...
In FFXI, where SE has stated that they have to limit variety due to memory restrictions of the PS2, they have still managed to implement I don't know how many different armor and weapon sets over time, many of those also different based on character race and sex and height. Again... despite the limitations, SE have found a way to manage it.
So while, yes, resources are limited and tricky to work with, those two examples alone show that it is very do-able, if the developer is so compelled. So I think thelaziness argument works here, too.
(Edit: My math was off.. had to fix it
.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Im kinda curious how a connection issue turned into a debate on personal preference. If you dont like the idea of playing a female character in a game, then you have limited yourself from lots of titles not only Archlord. I have played this game alot its one of the better F2P mmo's out there, you wont find another F2P with armor that is like it is in Archlord. If people are still having connection issues make sure your firewall is letting the game through, one of the most common connection errors, dont ever overlook the firewall.
OD
"It is through the errors of others that I learn not to be them"
The OP's first post was about not being able to log in. Their second post - about 3 or 4 posts into the thread, was a follow-up stating that they connected but took issue with the lack of customization.. the male/female thing, as well as being disconnected. The customization is what this thread has mostly been about, since there's really not much to debate about a connection issue - you can either get the game to connect, or you can't. It's a rather limited topic. Customization, on the other hand, is quite a loaded one.
To be honest, your rebuttal to the customization issue is a bit off. The complaint wasn't about the armor choices. It was about not being able to choose male or female for a given class. And the complaint isn't about any other MMO... it's about Archlord. Lack of customization in other MMOs is a topic for those games' forums.
And, yes, I do agree that they took shortcuts in deciding on classes being sex-specific. It's a common and, really, not at all unreasonable gripe. People like individuality and choice in a MMO. In a game that you could spend hundreds of hours playing, with potentially thousands of others playing along side you, it is a bit "annoying" to see 5 other characters run by that are exact clones of you. Or, to otherwise, not have many options of how you want your avatar to look overall; sex being one of those things.
Personally, I have no problem with playing a female avatar. I've played both BloodRayne games - female avatar. Tomb Raider? Female. Longest Journey/Dreamfall? Female characters. Primal? Female character. And so forth. I switch it up in MMOs purely for variety. Frankly, I think female models tend to look cooler (IMO) and are generally better animated than male characters (a good indication of who is actually creating these games and/or who they're created for. Female Dark Elves in L2? Hello...
). Even going back as far as the first Neverwinter Nights - female models were animated beautifully. Male models ran like they had a board up their rear, or had been on horseback a year or two too long. I couldn't stand looking at that, so I played a female toon instead. Even though there's an ever increasing female gamer population, games are still very "guy-centric" when it comes to character design. I'm personally not for or against it. But It is what it is.
However, to get back to my point, while it certainly shouldn't necessarily prevent people from playing a game (unless personalization is *that* important to them - and it well might be; to each their own), I can understand the gripe in not having more options or, at least, the ability to choose male or female where applicable. In some MMOs, there are only one choice of sex for a given race. Mithra and Galka in FFXI, for example. Female and Male only, respectively. But that's not a class limitation. Only sex.
Anyway, again, to me it's not a huge deal. But, I can see how it may be to others and, yes, in a genre like MMOs, it's not unexpected to have players being more particular about their character's appearance and put off by seemingly arbitrary limitations on appearance.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Not having gender choices in a game is.... well it's just laziness on the part of the developers.
There really is no excuse for it.
and blah blah you can talk about lore, but as the poster said some of us don't play video games so we can stare at our toon and drool on our keyboards. Not that the female avatars in AL are that much to look at anyway.
I honestly think this game is geared towards preteens, pretty graphics, simple game play, anime characters and free to play, kind of silly imo when the average age of people playing mmo's is early 30's.
... Just select a game where you can select a gender them.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
How nice of an elite member to try and put what I had to say on my first post, into the dirt. I realize the gripe is about the cusomization of your characters but, my point was simply saying you won't find armor in another F2P mmo like you find in Archlord. On the gender specific class system, well it doesnt bother me either. To tell you the truth I would rather stare at a pixelated females ass then a males. Right?!?
Other then that I feel maybe the customization of your characters or lack there of, might have its own post, insted of eating from a real issue like not being able to connect to the game. Being as someone has over 720 posts they should be able to help this problem. . . LOL well maybe, just cause you can type doesn't mean you know anything on the tech aspect. ^^
OD
"It is through the errors of others that I learn not to be them"
Wow.
Thin-skinned much?
Umm.. I didn't know how many you even had 'til you mentioned it. I read your post, and responded. If you had 10,000 posts it wouldn't have made a difference. I'd have posted the same reply.
First of all, I did not "try to put what you say into the ground". I pointed out how your point was not what the topic was about - armor and character sex are two different things. I then went on to elaborate. Basically, a normal post.
Number of posts has nothing to do with anything. Someone could come in here with 1 post, like yourself, and post my rebuttal and it wouldn't make any difference. Post count doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid. Perhaps to some, but that's their problem. Also, my "rank" is an arbitrary tag decided in the forum configuration - all it means is "I've posted enough to trigger the "elite" label". Whatever. You apparently give it more consideration than I do.
That said, if you're going to get that bent out of shape and start with the pot-shots the moment someone posts a disagreement to something you've said, I'd advise finding a friendlier forum to post to. What I posted would actually be considered tame compared to some of the people here. This is not a place to be if you can't take a little bit of disagreement.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Oh.. did it sound as if I was mad? Didn't even notice.
OD
"It is through the errors of others that I learn not to be them"
Asian mmo's don't even come close to the quality found in Western mmo's - not even close.
Game play in general - Western What a generic statement...how so?
UI Customization - Western same as above
PVP and RVR - Western You are truely on crack, what western game has PvP or RvR whats worth a f&^%? PvP / RvR in western games is for the mostpart meaningless. There is maybe one, EVE, thats worthwile playing.
Crafting - Western yes, no asian game has crafting
Housing - Western Yes, no asian game has housing
Auction Houses - Western yes, no asian game has an AH
Freedom of Movement - Western Huh? Oh must be refering to the point and click, the same feature many western games have or you can set them to
Questing - Western Crack
Raiding - Western And this is a good thing?
Mob AI - Western LMAO, oh this is good...MMO AIs are idiots comparred to other genres
City Building - Western Yes, all western games have this fantasic feature. In fact I can't wait to log into Vanguard, DAoC, EQII or EQ and get to work on my city.
Less Grind - Western You are on Crack, do you play any western games at all???? Please tell us WoW is less grind...go for it.
Pretty Graphics / flashy combat animations - Asian
Item Malls - Asian
Weapon and Armour Slotting - Asian Yes, no western game has this.
Character choice in start up gender - Western Yes, no Asian game allows this
I thought I would add something
Launching buggy games that don't work for at least the first 6 months, some not for years and still some never at all BUT you get to pay a fee for the after launch beta experience - Western.
Where do you get this stuff from?
Almost everything you listed has comperable Asian features. Just admit it, you just don't like Asian games and nothing will convince you otherwise.
There are asian games that have a crafting system implemented; it may seems basic to some ppls' liking, but then again, Archlord's is nothing special and limited too. So IMO it doesn't matter if a game is asian or western, a good game is a good game.
...
There is more fact in what Nadril is saying.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.